31711 replies to this topic

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

I merely said that the domestic Japanese fanbase was one thing, but even if it does have more of an NS fanbase, SP clearly didn't care about that.

SP was always looking far more at what the international fanbase preferred (a much greater number of fans to look at which means much more money to make compared to what they'd get from the Japanese fanbase alone) and, unfortunately, a lot of the international fanbase APPEARED to prefer NH over NS (though there have been reports that SP blatantly lied about various poll results and such to Kishi to convince him to change the pairings). Whether that's true or not, SP grossly underestimated the international market as there were a lot more NS/SK/SNS/logical neutral fans than they expected and also underestimated the logical capacity of a lot of NH/SS fans (fans who like the pairings themselves, but still have the logic to know just how badly they were brought about, and how bad they still are, in the story and so still hate the ending and things that followed because of how terrible it made the characters look, and by extension, themselves as fans of those pairings).

There's also the fact that images, videos, and reviews of The Last were hitting the Internet and spreading quickly right after the first showings and so SP also lost the element of surprise in the international market compared to the domestic market, where they were able to trick people into pre-ordering tickets with misleading marketing and advertisements, then preventing refunds when the truth is revealed, since they already knew what the movie entailed. 

Such reasons are why, compared to the money made in Japan, The Last completely failed internationally and, as a result, SP actually lost more money than it gained overall, or broke even at best, which still isn't good for all the marketing done, and all merchandise that was made, but didn't sell, and that overall failure is why SP has been trying so hard to make Hinata look irrelevant again in the story by barely giving her any page/screen time or anything, as well as trying to blatantly attempt to "reset" the story through Boruto. They're hoping people will eventually forget...but we won't...

 

It's exactly that point. Not just SP but the entire Naruto staff from Shuiesha and SJ thought that the international market would bring the millions by catering to the western NH fanbase. It took two canon films internationally surpassed the the RTN international earnings. Pathetic.

[NeonRanger]

No. Internationally, both The Last and Boruto are major successes. In JP, Boruto is the top selling and widely welcomed film in Naruto (because SNS), while The Last was heavily criticized because of false advertising (and the fact that this was all about Hinata). The Japanese overall don't care about pairings. Very decision so far was decided by the west (or outside JP) because, for some reason, pairings or their faves (characters) are the major deciding factors of buying the manga rather than the story. If they truly weren't a success, then why the Boruto manga? Why are we having the Hokage Inauguration one-shot still being animated for the Boruto DVD coming out? Go to the ANN and Naruto is in the top 5 major gross/overall sales in TV Tokyo. In the west, Boruto was approved of a second showing because of the success it had. 

 

Overall, Sakura is a widely hated/ not as accepted female character in the west compared to Hinata. NH is also widely popular, along with SNS. It's not as hard to cater to SNS (look at Boruto and the SNS DVD). But overall people prefer NH over NS. SS also had a large popularity. Most in the west prefer shipping NH/SS over NS. NS stands alone (SK is not popular at all worldwide). Sasuke was the most catered to character; he ended the manga rather than the main character (699), and so far no one has an issue with it. Kishi dropped Sakura because of her rising anti base and overall unpopularity and even said he was shock with Hinata's popularity because she basically wasn't as involved in the story. Popularity had everything to do with the ending. 

[hinataiscreepy]

Just to add to this. The only two things that have been a "success" for this series since the ending are Boruto movie and The last Storm game.

 

The reason Boruto movie was a "success" was because it basically abandon the end pairings, and instead went for SNS. Which brought those fans back. It was successful enough that they later did a CD drama using Naruto and Sasuke voice actors for SNS fanfic.

 

The Storm game. One was one of the few things they couldn't pirate. Two had it's own fanbase. Three was the final one in the series. Four Street Fighter 5 was so poor they few people bought it and instead spent their money on Naruto Ninja storm 4 for their fighting game fix. 

 

The ending of the game did not focus on the pairing and left the ending more open ended... Not to mention that the ending is a lot more satisfying with Naruto not punching his son (remembering that he was similar) and taking his hand.

[TouKen4Life3g]

All I know is people don't like SS and NH in Japan that much and female audience don't like Hinata as much as guys. While it will remain true that it's more so than Sakura, the point is it's not among the list that you wouldn't put in top 10 in the list unless its relatively new and/or very specific category.

[LuckyChi7]

I enjoy reading it. Please let me (us?) know their interaction in chapter 4

 

Sure!!

 

 

"Hup."

 

"Thanks." Sakura took the can of juice Naruto offered.

 

After the lesson was over, they had gone to a park near the academy. Sitting side by side on a bench, they drank their juice.

  

"Hey, thanks for helping out with the lesson, Sakura."

 

"Sure. It was fun for me too. A nice change of pace."

 

"Glad to hear it."

 

"But I honestly was surprised, you know. You really have the makings of a great teacher, Naruto."

 

"Heh heh. I guess its just I was always falling behind, so I totally get how  the kids who can't do it feel, y'know?"

 

"Right."

 

"But I mean, you! You were great. I just come and teach at the academy sometimes, but you're actually really working with kids in a real way, right?"

 

"Not at all. Not me." Sakura shook her head. Being complicated directly like this was   hard somehow. Finishing off the last of her juice, she sighed. "I'm  a disaster. I told the kids to back there to be ninjas with strong minds too, but I'm basically the worst at that right now."

 

"Something happen?" Naruto said, and tossed his empty juice can into a garbage can several meters away.

 

Sakura watched the perfect job and suddenly felt like telling everything. "So, Sasuke, okay?"

 

"Sasuke?"

 

"People have been seeing Sasuke all over lately. But-" She hesitated for a second about whether or not it was all right for her to talk with him about it. But in the end, she did. He was going to hear about it sooner or later anyway, she'd rather he heard it from her.      

 

Naruto listened to the whole story without interrupting. And then he said, "Huh, that so? So that's what's happening."

 

His tone was light, without a hint of seriousness, and Sakura felt somehow letdown.

 

" That so? You're not surprised?"

 

"Why would I be? I mean that Sasuke's a fake, right?"

 

"He is, but..." Sakura was slightly dissatisfied with his lack of a reaction. She thought he would be surprised or angry or get excited or show a little more emotion of some kind.

 

"If it's a fake, then no need to worry. Don't get too hung up on it, Sakura."

 

"But we still don't know who would make a fake like this or why, you know?"

 

"I'm telling you, it's fine." Naruto said, and smiled at her.

 

Sakura sighed. "Somehow, talking to you, I end up feeling like I was so silly for worrying like crazy about it. And Sasuke, he hasn't answered any of the messages we've sent-"

 

"There, that!" Naruto suddenly shouted

 

"What? Why are you shouting?"

 

  "Sasuke's not answering so I'm not worried either."

 

"I totally don't understand."

 

"Okay, look." He scratched his head as if trying to figure out how to put it before continuing. "The fact that he hasn't come back to the village even though there's some fake of him hanging around means he doesn't think it's a big deal either."

 

"Sasuke doesn't?" Sakura murmured. He doesn't think it's a big deal....

 

"If he were here, he'd say, 'Don't call me to the village over something so trivial. You guys can take care of it'" Naruto said, imitating Sasuke.   

 

Sakura burst out laughing. And then, as if the fog had cleared away, She realized Naruto was right. What was she mopping around for? She switched tracks from her negative thoughts and sat up straighter.

 

"Right. That's it, Isn't it?"

 

The fact that Sasuke hadn't come back to the village was because Sasuke himself didn't see the current matter as particularly serious. It was a very Naruto-like, simple, clear-cut opinion, but his words were exactly what Sakura needed at the moment.

 

A smile spread across her lips.

 

"It's the best when you smile, Sakura, y'know?" Naruto said, and grinned wide enough to show his teeth.

 

Sakura took a deep breath. It was a sign of how her mood had changed that even the air tasted good.

 

"Thanks, Naruto," she said, standing up. "I feel better after talking to you."

 

"Heh heh heh" Naruto laughed, "But, y'know,  Sakura, that Sasuke's such a headache. I mean, always giving you trouble like this."

 

 Naruto was so ridiculous that Sakura burst out laughing. 

 

 

 

Note: That's everything regarding the interaction between Naruto and Sakura in chapter 4.  I did stop by walmart again to see what they had and decided to look through to see if there was anything else in chapter 4 and so far that's the only thing I found.  

 

I'll be perfectly honest this little moment was actually touching to me, like they feel more natural here and keep in mind this is Post-The Last. By the way incase anyone was wondering everything was word for word from the actual pages.

 

 

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

No. Internationally, both The Last and Boruto are major successes. In JP, Boruto is the top selling and widely welcomed film in Naruto (because SNS), while The Last was heavily criticized because of false advertising (and the fact that this was all about Hinata). The Japanese overall don't care about pairings. Very decision so far was decided by the west (or outside JP) because, for some reason, pairings or their faves (characters) are the major deciding factors of buying the manga rather than the story. If they truly weren't a success, then why the Boruto manga? Why are we having the Hokage Inauguration one-shot still being animated for the Boruto DVD coming out? Go to the ANN and Naruto is in the top 5 major gross/overall sales in TV Tokyo. In the west, Boruto was approved of a second showing because of the success it had. 

 

Overall, Sakura is a widely hated/ not as accepted female character in the west compared to Hinata. NH is also widely popular, along with SNS. It's not as hard to cater to SNS (look at Boruto and the SNS DVD). But overall people prefer NH over NS. SS also had a large popularity. Most in the west prefer shipping NH/SS over NS. NS stands alone (SK is not popular at all worldwide). Sasuke was the most catered to character; he ended the manga rather than the main character (699), and so far no one has an issue with it. Kishi dropped Sakura because of her rising anti base and overall unpopularity and even said he was shock with Hinata's popularity because she basically wasn't as involved in the story. Popularity had everything to do with the ending. 

 

TL did not surpassed RTN internationally, unless the numbers I was looking at it were wrong. If it was a major success, they would not have to sideline the pairings and skipped straight to the next gen. We still be seeing more NH content for the next several years before the next gen era. 

[LuckyChi7]

Just out of curiosity how many of you ever go back and rewatch Road to Ninja?? 

[Popuri]

Sure!!
 
 
"Hup."
 
"Thanks." Sakura took the can of juice Naruto offered.
 
After the lesson was over, they had gone to a park near the academy. Sitting side by side on a bench, they drank their juice.
  
"Hey, thanks for helping out with the lesson, Sakura."
 
"Sure. It was fun for me too. A nice change of pace."
 
"Glad to hear it."
 
"But I honestly was surprised, you know. You really have the makings of a great teacher, Naruto."
 
"Heh heh. I guess its just I was always falling behind, so I totally get how  the kids who can't do it feel, y'know?"
 
"Right."
 
"But I mean, you! You were great. I just come and teach at the academy sometimes, but you're actually really working with kids in a real way, right?"
 
"Not at all. Not me." Sakura shook her head. Being complicated directly like this was   hard somehow. Finishing off the last of her juice, she sighed. "I'm  a disaster. I told the kids to back there to be ninjas with strong minds too, but I'm basically the worst at that right now."
 
"Something happen?" Naruto said, and tossed his empty juice can into a garbage can several meters away.
 
Sakura watched the perfect job and suddenly felt like telling everything. "So, Sasuke, okay?"
 
"Sasuke?"
 
"People have been seeing Sasuke all over lately. But-" She hesitated for a second about whether or not it was all right for her to talk with him about it. But in the end, she did. He was going to hear about it sooner or later anyway, she'd rather he heard it from her.      
 
Naruto listened to the whole story without interrupting. And then he said, "Huh, that so? So that's what's happening."
 
His tone was light, without a hint of seriousness, and Sakura felt somehow letdown.
 
" That so? You're not surprised?"
 
"Why would I be? I mean that Sasuke's a fake, right?"
 
"He is, but..." Sakura was slightly dissatisfied with his lack of a reaction. She thought he would be surprised or angry or get excited or show a little more emotion of some kind.
 
"If it's a fake, then no need to worry. Don't get too hung up on it, Sakura."
 
"But we still don't know who would make a fake like this or why, you know?"
 
"I'm telling you, it's fine." Naruto said, and smiled at her.
 
Sakura sighed. "Somehow, talking to you, I end up feeling like I was so silly for worrying like crazy about it. And Sasuke, he hasn't answered any of the messages we've sent-"
 
"There, that!" Naruto suddenly shouted
 
"What? Why are you shouting?"
 
  "Sasuke's not answering so I'm not worried either."
 
"I totally don't understand."
 
"Okay, look." He scratched his head as if trying to figure out how to put it before continuing. "The fact that he hasn't come back to the village even though there's some fake of him hanging around means he doesn't think it's a big deal either."
 
"Sasuke doesn't?" Sakura murmured. He doesn't think it's a big deal....
 
"If he were here, he'd say, 'Don't call me to the village over something so trivial. You guys can take care of it'" Naruto said, imitating Sasuke.   
 
Sakura burst out laughing. And then, as if the fog had cleared away, She realized Naruto was right. What was she mopping around for? She switched tracks from her negative thoughts and sat up straighter.
 
"Right. That's it, Isn't it?"
 
The fact that Sasuke hadn't come back to the village was because Sasuke himself didn't see the current matter as particularly serious. It was a very Naruto-like, simple, clear-cut opinion, but his words were exactly what Sakura needed at the moment.
 
A smile spread across her lips.
 
"It's the best when you smile, Sakura, y'know?" Naruto said, and grinned wide enough to show his teeth.
 
Sakura took a deep breath. It was a sign of how her mood had changed that even the air tasted good.
 
"Thanks, Naruto," she said, standing up. "I feel better after talking to you."
 
"Heh heh heh" Naruto laughed, "But, y'know,  Sakura, that Sasuke's such a headache. I mean, always giving you trouble like this."
 
 Naruto was so ridiculous that Sakura burst out laughing. 
 
 
 
Note: That's everything regarding the interaction between Naruto and Sakura in chapter 4.  I did stop by walmart again to see what they had and decided to look through to see if there was anything else in chapter 4 and so far that's the only thing I found.  
 
I'll be perfectly honest this little moment was actually touching to me, like they feel more natural here and keep in mind this is Post-The Last. By the way incase anyone was wondering everything was word for word from the actual pages.

Thank you!
I miss moment like this A little sasuke was mentioned but the whole is NS

[Shadow1275]

Just out of curiosity how many of you ever go back and rewatch Road to Ninja?? 

I watched the English Dubbed version when it came out. I had already seen the Japanese and Korean dubs but I just had to hear Kate Higgins for the NS moments. RTN is my favorite Naruto movie. I don't think it has the best action, but the drama is fantastic and greatly well-written. 

 

Stayed away from that abomination: The Last. It's like the complete opposite of RTN. kitten poorly written drama, forced brainwashing via genjutsu, and a villain who just appears out of butt f nowhere lacking the weight and menace that Obito had back when we thought he was Madara.

 

And let me say that I still Love Kate Higgin's performance as Sakura and that I believe she became a NS fan in the end.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

I know this is kinda off topic but why is SoKai better than Naruhina? Because Sora and Kairi always had a connection. Though Kairi isn't the strongest character, that doesn't stop her from trying. In fact she saved the world by saving Sora. Has Hinata done that? In fact Sakura saved the world by saving Naruto bunches of times.

[Dalton.T.R]

Let's be honest here...any story the author at least put a little effort into the romance story is just about guaranteed to have a better story than Kishi could have ever written. Had Kishi just went on ahead and made NS end game he'd of had a pretty decent set up for the crap we have now. It's like Hinata doesn't exist anymore, and she lets Naruto and their son just walk all over her even though she could have been a fairly powerful character had Kishi developed her enough.

 

If Naruto even tried doing a fraction of what he's doing to Sakura, she'd punish him accordingly. 

 

Hell, I don't see how Hinata fans can even watch or read what's happening now. She has no potential anymore whatsoever! 

[rocci]

I know this is kinda off topic but why is SoKai better than Naruhina? Because Sora and Kairi always had a connection. Though Kairi isn't the strongest character, that doesn't stop her from trying. In fact she saved the world by saving Sora. Has Hinata done that? In fact Sakura saved the world by saving Naruto bunches of times.

Sokai is not comparable with nh because there're no Hinata-esque girl in kh to compared.
Sokai is comparable with NS based on the position of heroxheroine.
It could be direct parallel to NS if there's love triangle in kh.

There's a reason why some people want Hinata in the team seven replacing sakura. That's to make Hinata more relevant and securing the love interest position.

[Catra]

Sokai is not comparable with nh because there're no Hinata-esque girl in kh to compared.
Sokai is comparable with NS based on the position of heroxheroine.
It could be direct parallel to NS if there's love triangle in kh.

There's a reason why some people want Hinata in the team seven replacing sakura. That's to make Hinata more relevant and securing the love interest position.

in fact there's a part in kh where kairi does remind me of sakura.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

in fact there's a part in kh where kairi does remind me of sakura.

 

Which part is that?

[RyohkiFan]

Well...for some reason, I thought this didn't exist anymore...but I was wrong...

[db84x]

@ TouKen, Konoha & Dalton

Asian fandom simply don't care about the pairing as long as it cool, why Kishi must waste effort for something which ignored by majority of Naruto fanbase.

 

@ Neon

Agree with you

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, he doesn't ignore on pleasing a character that is more of Sasuke. Individual, he will give them too much and the ones who really needed it will get far less. This is the guy who legitimately said that he cut Kakashi's screen time to have Naruto to shine more and stand out more. It's too manufactured, the story that is. It's not genuine, mostly felt forced, contrived, and messy.

If fans like it, then that's fine, but as it stands, people can see the writing is not good.

[db84x]

Shounen exist to pleased fans, not people.  It how manga industry work for years.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Not necessarily especially since you have to start somewhere. It's just an easy pleaser.

[Bail o' Lies]

No. Internationally, both The Last and Boruto are major successes. In JP, Boruto is the top selling and widely welcomed film in Naruto (because SNS), while The Last was heavily criticized because of false advertising (and the fact that this was all about Hinata). The Japanese overall don't care about pairings. Very decision so far was decided by the west (or outside JP) because, for some reason, pairings or their faves (characters) are the major deciding factors of buying the manga rather than the story. If they truly weren't a success, then why the Boruto manga? Why are we having the Hokage Inauguration one-shot still being animated for the Boruto DVD coming out? Go to the ANN and Naruto is in the top 5 major gross/overall sales in TV Tokyo. In the west, Boruto was approved of a second showing because of the success it had. 

 

Overall, Sakura is a widely hated/ not as accepted female character in the west compared to Hinata. NH is also widely popular, along with SNS. It's not as hard to cater to SNS (look at Boruto and the SNS DVD). But overall people prefer NH over NS. SS also had a large popularity. Most in the west prefer shipping NH/SS over NS. NS stands alone (SK is not popular at all worldwide). Sasuke was the most catered to character; he ended the manga rather than the main character (699), and so far no one has an issue with it. Kishi dropped Sakura because of her rising anti base and overall unpopularity and even said he was shock with Hinata's popularity because she basically wasn't as involved in the story. Popularity had everything to do with the ending. 

The ending was nH because they thought it is what the international market wanted. In Japan NarutoXHinata was barely even a thing. What was a major pairing for her over there was NejiXHinata. One because cousin marriages are much more accepted there as well as most of the world except the U.S. Two because Neji was well loved by the fanbase. From what I understand even the voice actors never consider nH a thing figuring that NS or SS were the important pairings. So even if Japan is not as obsessed with the pairing as the U.S. fans on the internet they still did not expect or want nH. Now the Japanese fans' reaction are still very important, and I'll be getting to why.

 

Now then onto the last as well as the ending. So the Last was them trying to appease The international(US) fanbase in hopes of making more profits off of them. They were willing to piss off or even abandon the Japanese fanbase. For the possible profits that they thought the international fans would give them if they went with nH. Well what happened? They made most of their money in Japan by tricking their fanbase into pre-ordering ticket thinking it was a NS movie. Then refusing refunds when they found out that wasn't the case. Even then they still were able to wring out about 16 million out of them. While every other country they never made close to making a million even in the US. (I'm saying no individual country it never came close to making a million.) Where in-theory the nH fanbase is at it strongest and most fanatical.

 

So with the Japanese fanbase before the last numbers came out, they were fine with losing as long as they kept that international money. Instead Japanese fanbase is where they made most of it money. While internationally they barely even got an 8th of those profits. So because of that along with the Japanese fanbase base coming to hate hinata for being the character that led to Neji's death as well as the terrible ending and the last. They basically had to push hinata quickly into the background again despite her only recently being given importance because they now know that most of their money was going to becoming from what is left of the Japanese fanbase. Now just because they have abandoned hinata doesn't mean they are going to go back and charge the story. That would be admitting they were wrong. Instead they are just going to keep going forward and just focus on the next generation,

 

Now just because they abandon nH doesn't mean they can't do some romance with SS. It's the gaiden they showed they weren't going to. SP have always hated SS. So it's no surprise if they don't do anything with that pairing. But the giaden shows us Kishimoto clearly does not like SS and only giving it anything positive is because he is order to by his editors.

 

So they had to abandon nH and they do not care for SS in the slightest. So what are they going to do with the Boruto movie and it's manga? What can they do to bring back the fans they scorned? Without apologizing and going back and changing the ending. The answer. Make The Boruto movie was basically an SNS movie, and they made the new pairing a clone of either/both NS and SNS. Which at least brought back the yaoi hungry SNS fans. It still made most of its profits in Japan instead of internationally. 

 

Now onto that ANN article. What the article is talking about is the first fiscal quarter of 2016. The first fiscal quarter of 2016. It is not talking about all year or all time. Yokai Watch was number two on that list, and I don't think it has surpassed both Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon have ever earned in sales in just two years. It is just the first fiscal quarter of 2016. Now what happen in the first fiscal quarter of 2016 that would give Naruto that number one spot? What came out during the first fiscal quarter of 2016? Well it was Naruto Ninja Storm 4. The last of it series. Well the things that made it a success to put Naruto in that number one spot were: "One, it was one of the few things they couldn't pirate. Two, it had it's own fanbase. Three, was the final one in the series. Four, Street Fighter 5 was so poorly received that few people bought it and instead spent their money on Naruto Ninja Storm 4 for their fighting game fix." 

 

As for Boruto. Why is  that kishimoto has been made the editor instead of just the supervisor while he works on his new scifi manga? The answer is while they may have green-lite Boruto manga. Since it would be admitting defeat and a lost of what profits they would gain from it if they cancelled it. But they still have very little confidence in it and basically want to keep kishi there to convince the fans he still working on it.

 

So yes, the Naruto franchise has been able to hang on but not in the way they wanted. They wanted it be this big international seller so they get huge amount of money again. Instead they damaged it and their reputation and had to go crawling back to the Japanese fan base. Once they realized the "international" fanbase was not giving the money they wanted or needed. Naruto hasn't been popular in the US for years, and in Japan the only people that still care about it are otaku and foreigners.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 01 July 2016 - 11:52 PM.