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H&E's NaruSaku Debate Thread!


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#2181 Paptala

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:05 PM

Just as a cautionary heading, I think speculating on why other pairing fans like their pairing might easily lead to bashing of not only the pairing, but potentially the fandom. Though I will say that there are plenty of SS fans who genuinely like SS (the NH side shippers just half heartedly throw SS in their arguments/fan art/whatever and it shows). The serious SS shippers genuinely believe that (through /their/ interpretation of the manga) Sasuke has shown hints of reciprocation towards Sakura's romantic feelings, and that she is the girl that he was closest to in the entire manga. Just saying.
QUOTE (Transformers03 @ Jul 8 2012, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey guys, have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, that we are all wrong and have just misinterpreted the entire manga. Maybe this whole time we were just finding things that didn't exist.

It's always a possibility, but I don't think its misinterpretation to say things like NaruSaku is the only unrequited romance that has had demonstrations of reciprocal non-platonic feelings, when
  • there are panels of Sakura blushing at, smiling at, flirting with, hugging Naruto intimately with people blushing around them
  • Sakura has other people talking about the nature and strength of her feelings for Naruto
  • the other pairings simply don't have panels of the above


As long as we keep a critical mind, and try to look for things that may disprove as well as prove our belief that NaruSaku is endgame, we should be okay. Just keep in the mind, the story should be looked at as a whole, not just chapter by chapter or arc by arc.

Edited by Paptala, 08 July 2012 - 05:11 PM.

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#2182 Transformers03

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:12 PM

QUOTE (Paptala @ Jul 8 2012, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just as a cautionary heading, I think speculating on why other pairing fans like their pairing might easily lead to bashing of not only the pairing, but potentially the fandom. Though I will say that there are plenty of SS fans who genuinely like SS (the NH side shippers just half heartedly throw SS in their arguments/fan art/whatever and it shows). The serious SS shippers genuinely believe that (through /their/ interpretation of the manga) Sasuke has shown hints of reciprocation towards Sakura's romantic feelings, and that she is the girl that he was closest to in the entire manga. Just saying.


I only find it weird that so many people can interpreted a manga series in so many different ways. It makes you wonder if any of them are even remotely correct, including ours. What does our pairing have that the other fandoms don't? What makes our the most likely to happen, and why don't many people see it like it?

#2183 redragon88

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:24 PM

QUOTE (Paptala @ Jul 8 2012, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just as a cautionary heading, I think speculating on why other pairing fans like their pairing might easily lead to bashing of not only the pairing, but potentially the fandom. Though I will say that there are plenty of SS fans who genuinely like SS (the NH side shippers just half heartedly throw SS in their arguments/fan art/whatever and it shows). The serious SS shippers genuinely believe that (through /their/ interpretation of the manga) Sasuke has shown hints of reciprocation towards Sakura's romantic feelings, and that she is the girl that he was closest to in the entire manga. Just saying.

You might be right. I thought it'd be an interesting topic to discuss but it seems to be doing more harm than good. Your answer about it being a matter of interpretation could be about the best we can conclude.

Your comment truly makes make rethink of how I view other fandoms and their reason as to why they prefer other parings, so I very much appreciate your response.

Although I still think that some people just prefer a paring for their own personal reasons instead of concluding that the story builds up to it. But of course that is probably as very small minority of fans, and it can be any fan (NS, SS, NH, etc.). It not only happens in Naruto, it occurs in any kind of fictional work.

#2184 sushi.

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:37 PM

QUOTE (Transformers03 @ Jul 8 2012, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I only find it weird that so many people can interpreted a manga series in so many different ways. It makes you wonder if any of them are even remotely correct, including ours. What does our pairing have that the other fandoms don't? What makes our the most likely to happen, and why don't many people see it like it?

I say many people are not NS-shippers because of the confession. They simply make up their mind and say that she "lied", but you can easily make an essay about the confession, trying to understand her. You will likely end up as a NS-shipper. Because you actually made an effort to read between the lines, and see it from another perspective.

Edited by sushi., 08 July 2012 - 05:37 PM.

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#2185 Gravenimage

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE (Branden @ Jul 8 2012, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sleep.gif your ignorant to the definition of ignorance...


Watch it stop with the bashing you're being disrespectful. I suggest you drop it because next time it may be a mod giving you the warning.
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#2186 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:59 PM

QUOTE (Verilance @ Jul 8 2012, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
please tell me you are not serious because with statements like this you are either trolling or proving you do not read Naruto


i think you are trolling

Naruto always get the "things" with determination everything he did always has a obstacle only someome that does not read the manga does not know this.
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#2187 Verilance

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:01 PM

QUOTE (dovahkiin @ Jul 8 2012, 01:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i think you are trolling

Naruto always get the "things" with determination everything he did always has a obstacle only someome that does not read the manga does not know this.


please read the comment you made again because that is not what you said


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#2188 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:13 PM

QUOTE (Verilance @ Jul 8 2012, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
please read the comment you made again because that is not what you said


yes it was i added the fact that sakura is a tsundere.
honestly idk what tsundere is.
but her love for sasuke made her suffer and naruto suffers because of his friend.
still loving sasuke , sakura knows that sasuke is not the man she fall in love(that image with sasuke surrounded by dark flames).

Edited by dovahkiin, 08 July 2012 - 06:17 PM.

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#2189 kirabook

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:32 PM

If you don't know what a Tsundere is, please look it up. :/

http://tvtropes.org/...p/Main/Tsundere

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#2190 sushi.

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:33 PM

QUOTE (dovahkiin @ Jul 8 2012, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
yes it was i added the fact that sakura is a tsundere.
honestly idk what tsundere is.
but her love for sasuke made her suffer and naruto suffers because of his friend.
still loving sasuke , sakura knows that sasuke is not the man she fall in love(that image with sasuke surrounded by dark flames).

A Tsundere is a cold person that eventually warms up (and often falls in love with the main character).

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#2191 Paptala

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 07:50 PM

QUOTE (Transformers03 @ Jul 8 2012, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I only find it weird that so many people can interpreted a manga series in so many different ways.

Well, that applies to pretty much everything in life. Some people can look at paint splatters and see a work of art, and others look at it as trash. People's own mindsets, personalities, and life experiences all lead them to see the same thing in different ways.
QUOTE
It makes you wonder if any of them are even remotely correct, including ours. What does our pairing have that the other fandoms don't? What makes our the most likely to happen, and why don't many people see it like it?

There is definitely room for interpretation in a lot of Kishi's stuff, and we could be totally wrong. But on the other hand, there are definitely some things that simply are canon fact. When people start denying that Naruto's romantic feelings for Sakura were ever serious, for example, then you can say with confidence that that is wrong. Its no longer a matter of interpretation when you have numerous manga panels flat out telling you differently.

A lot of people, when they get emotionally invested in something one way or another, won't be swayed by logical arguments. This has been shown by psychological studies. People get invested into characters and pairings and then can actively distort what the manga presents on its face to match their own view. This is done all the time in life with things that we simply refuse to accept as true. For example, Person A believes women make poor leaders because they are more emotional then men. Person B presents evidence of competent female leaders in the past. Person A will come back with "well those are the exceptions, the rest are poor leaders/they were only good because they had good male advisors helping them/etc. Some people will also focus on the stuff that supports their view, and completely ignore the stuff that works against their view. The human mind works in weird ways, believe you me.

That being said, if a person doesn't like NaruSaku, they are far less likely to look at the pairing objectively and say, "yeah, that pairing does have a lot of hints/ will become canon in the end". And there are plenty of reaons people don't like NaruSaku. They've become invested in Hinata's character and wants, they don't like Sakura, they don't like the tropes of the NaruSaku relationship (tsundere type comedic romance, main guy and main girl, etc.), they only see them as brother and sister, etc.

Just because people in the western fandom don't like NaruSaku (and it really is just the western fandom hating on it to the best of my understanding) doesn't make it any less likely to be canon. What matters is how Kishimoto feels about NaruSaku, and given the grossly disproportional focus and development he's given to that relationship over its contenders throughout the whole manga, I don't think that its illogical to venture that he looks favorably on it.

The best way to make sure that you are not misinterpreting the manga is simply to keep your mind open to things that may disprove your view. Consider it critically, see how well it fits with the big picture of the manga we've seen before, and then go from there. We have a lot of things going for us that the other pairings don't have, the biggest being the huge amount of development and focus the relationship has received in both part one and two of the manga, and the fact that there have been demonstrations of non-platonic feelings from both people in the relationship (because it is a manga fact that Sakura has shown physical attraction to Naruto at the very least - there is just no other way to take blushing, smiling, asking him if she looks more womanly, and then thinking that he's matured in appearance).
QUOTE (redragon88 @ Jul 8 2012, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You might be right. I thought it'd be an interesting topic to discuss but it seems to be doing more harm than good. Your answer about it being a matter of interpretation could be about the best we can conclude.

Your comment truly makes make rethink of how I view other fandoms and their reason as to why they prefer other parings, so I very much appreciate your response.

I agree that its an interesting topic, I just think that its also a sensitive one that could get out of hand (especially given some of the response its already gotten you). I'm glad that you appreciated my comment - yours likewise always tend to have good points. happy.gif
QUOTE
Although I still think that some people just prefer a paring for their own personal reasons instead of concluding that the story builds up to it. But of course that is probably as very small minority of fans, and it can be any fan (NS, SS, NH, etc.). It not only happens in Naruto, it occurs in any kind of fictional work.

Oh, I totally agree on that. As I stated earlier, the way people interpret things are based on their own preferences, and life experiences.
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#2192 Transformers03

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:21 PM

QUOTE (Paptala @ Jul 8 2012, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, that applies to pretty much everything in life. Some people can look at paint splatters and see a work of art, and others look at it as trash. People's own mindsets, personalities, and life experiences all lead them to see the same thing in different ways.

There is definitely room for interpretation in a lot of Kishi's stuff, and we could be totally wrong. But on the other hand, there are definitely some things that simply are canon fact. When people start denying that Naruto's romantic feelings for Sakura were ever serious, for example, then you can say with confidence that that is wrong. Its no longer a matter of interpretation when you have numerous manga panels flat out telling you differently.

A lot of people, when they get emotionally invested in something one way or another, won't be swayed by logical arguments. This has been shown by psychological studies. People get invested into characters and pairings and then can actively distort what the manga presents on its face to match their own view. This is done all the time in life with things that we simply refuse to accept as true. For example, Person A believes women make poor leaders because they are more emotional then men. Person B presents evidence of competent female leaders in the past. Person A will come back with "well those are the exceptions, the rest are poor leaders/they were only good because they had good male advisors helping them/etc. Some people will also focus on the stuff that supports their view, and completely ignore the stuff that works against their view. The human mind works in weird ways, believe you me.

That being said, if a person doesn't like NaruSaku, they are far less likely to look at the pairing objectively and say, "yeah, that pairing does have a lot of hints/ will become canon in the end". And there are plenty of reaons people don't like NaruSaku. They've become invested in Hinata's character and wants, they don't like Sakura, they don't like the tropes of the NaruSaku relationship (tsundere type comedic romance, main guy and main girl, etc.), they only see them as brother and sister, etc.

Just because people in the western fandom don't like NaruSaku (and it really is just the western fandom hating on it to the best of my understanding) doesn't make it any less likely to be canon. What matters is how Kishimoto feels about NaruSaku, and given the grossly disproportional focus and development he's given to that relationship over its contenders throughout the whole manga, I don't think that its illogical to venture that he looks favorably on it.

The best way to make sure that you are not misinterpreting the manga is simply to keep your mind open to things that may disprove your view. Consider it critically, see how well it fits with the big picture of the manga we've seen before, and then go from there. We have a lot of things going for us that the other pairings don't have, the biggest being the huge amount of development and focus the relationship has received in both part one and two of the manga, and the fact that there have been demonstrations of non-platonic feelings from both people in the relationship (because it is a manga fact that Sakura has shown physical attraction to Naruto at the very least - there is just no other way to take blushing, smiling, asking him if she looks more womanly, and then thinking that he's matured in appearance).

I agree that its an interesting topic, I just think that its also a sensitive one that could get out of hand (especially given some of the response its already gotten you). I'm glad that you appreciated my comment - yours likewise always tend to have good points. happy.gif

Oh, I totally agree on that. As I stated earlier, the way people interpret things are based on their own preferences, and life experiences.


Thanks, this was the answer I was looking for. Thinking back from the beginning, I do think the series seem to focus more on Naruto and Sakura's development than any other pairing (both in the anime and manga). But I have read other forums who think otherwise, so really it is up to people's interpretation. It's possible that people don't see Narusaku becoming canon cause 1) people see their relationship as that of a brother and sister (which doesn't work for me, but whatever), and 2) they don't see the subtle hints that he has placed throughout the manga. An other obvious reason could be that some are extremely biased against that pairing.

That's what I think how people don't see Narusaku as the end results, but even then I'm still surprise some fans don't even bother to see some of the more obvious hints (ex: the hug, the ALMOST feeding scene, the third Data book...etc.). But whatever, no matter what I do I can't change people's mind, which is why I never bother commenting in other forum other than this one. I know some of you wanted to drop this topic, but I just wanted to give my thoughts on it before it was done.

#2193 Verilance

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:28 PM

just been looking at old WSJ covers and this strikes me as quite a nice one



issue 19 from 2009




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#2194 Gravenimage

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:50 PM

QUOTE (Paptala @ Jul 8 2012, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, that applies to pretty much everything in life. Some people can look at paint splatters and see a work of art, and others look at it as trash. People's own mindsets, personalities, and life experiences all lead them to see the same thing in different ways.

There is definitely room for interpretation in a lot of Kishi's stuff, and we could be totally wrong. But on the other hand, there are definitely some things that simply are canon fact. When people start denying that Naruto's romantic feelings for Sakura were ever serious, for example, then you can say with confidence that that is wrong. Its no longer a matter of interpretation when you have numerous manga panels flat out telling you differently.

A lot of people, when they get emotionally invested in something one way or another, won't be swayed by logical arguments. This has been shown by psychological studies. People get invested into characters and pairings and then can actively distort what the manga presents on its face to match their own view. This is done all the time in life with things that we simply refuse to accept as true. For example, Person A believes women make poor leaders because they are more emotional then men. Person B presents evidence of competent female leaders in the past. Person A will come back with "well those are the exceptions, the rest are poor leaders/they were only good because they had good male advisors helping them/etc. Some people will also focus on the stuff that supports their view, and completely ignore the stuff that works against their view. The human mind works in weird ways, believe you me.

That being said, if a person doesn't like NaruSaku, they are far less likely to look at the pairing objectively and say, "yeah, that pairing does have a lot of hints/ will become canon in the end". And there are plenty of reaons people don't like NaruSaku. They've become invested in Hinata's character and wants, they don't like Sakura, they don't like the tropes of the NaruSaku relationship (tsundere type comedic romance, main guy and main girl, etc.), they only see them as brother and sister, etc.

Just because people in the western fandom don't like NaruSaku (and it really is just the western fandom hating on it to the best of my understanding) doesn't make it any less likely to be canon. What matters is how Kishimoto feels about NaruSaku, and given the grossly disproportional focus and development he's given to that relationship over its contenders throughout the whole manga, I don't think that its illogical to venture that he looks favorably on it.

The best way to make sure that you are not misinterpreting the manga is simply to keep your mind open to things that may disprove your view. Consider it critically, see how well it fits with the big picture of the manga we've seen before, and then go from there. We have a lot of things going for us that the other pairings don't have, the biggest being the huge amount of development and focus the relationship has received in both part one and two of the manga, and the fact that there have been demonstrations of non-platonic feelings from both people in the relationship (because it is a manga fact that Sakura has shown physical attraction to Naruto at the very least - there is just no other way to take blushing, smiling, asking him if she looks more womanly, and then thinking that he's matured in appearance).

I agree that its an interesting topic, I just think that its also a sensitive one that could get out of hand (especially given some of the response its already gotten you). I'm glad that you appreciated my comment - yours likewise always tend to have good points. happy.gif

Oh, I totally agree on that. As I stated earlier, the way people interpret things are based on their own preferences, and life experiences.


THIS awesome post Paptala. And this is the reason why you shouldn't go to Youtube to debate about Naruto pairings because it's nothing but a waste of time.

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#2195 Transformers03

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:50 PM

QUOTE (Verilance @ Jul 8 2012, 01:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
just been looking at old WSJ covers and this strikes me as quite a nice one



issue 19 from 2009


Can't see it, what does it have on it?

#2196 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:54 PM

QUOTE (Verilance @ Jul 8 2012, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
just been looking at old WSJ covers and this strikes me as quite a nice one



issue 19 from 2009


i wish i could see the covers of 2010, 2011 and 2012 because i only found 2006 to 2009
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#2197 Verilance

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:55 PM

QUOTE (Transformers03 @ Jul 8 2012, 04:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can't see it, what does it have on it?


Naruto Kakashi Sakura


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#2198 Transformers03

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:08 PM

QUOTE (Verilance @ Jul 8 2012, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Naruto Kakashi Sakura


Doing what may I ask?

#2199 sushi.

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:50 PM

I can't see the picture sad.gif ?

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#2200 ultranx

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 11:10 PM

QUOTE (Branden @ Jul 8 2012, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sleep.gif your ignorant to the definition of ignorance...

branden i have to personally disagree. i met some polish people once on gaia online that were sasusaku fans and actually even roleplayed sasusaku and they hardly mentioned naruhina.heck, they even roleplayed sasusaku on their profiles. it was creepy. as for why they like it, probably because of what redragon said. the biggest argument they had is they always denied that sakura is a tsundere even when i gave them proof.

and i can't see the picture either. link maybe?

Edited by ultranx, 08 July 2012 - 11:36 PM.

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