4869 replies to this topic

[Pite]

Not quantity but quality...
Most SasuSaku is AU or crappily wirtten... so as Yaoi.

[Ani]

You're right, Pite. Let me re-phrase my sentence, then.

Lets hope some great NaruSaku development lies ahead.

[jmf]

oh i hope so cause i'm getting bored with all this other stuff ya know,but i still think it'll be another 10 to 20 chapters before any more narusaku development you have to be able,to see both sides of the story and not just one but i'm still fully loyal to narusaku.

[Vespar]

Anyone feel like countering this?

love? what is love if not more than an obsession for someone or something?

Anyways, naruto NEEDS a woman that can cook and clean his dirrty underwear, and i think that sakura just doesn't fit that role. Since naruto was young he always wanted human interaction (physical, but not in a fap way), and from what i've seen so far, he hasn't recieved any, from sakura at least. And i feel that if narusaku happens, they won't be as snuggly wuggly as i think couples should be. For the job of housemaker and snuggle buddy, we need Hinata.

That is honestly, the worst reasoning for NaruHina I have ever heard. I mean, seriously... Geeze, I wouldn't wish such a mundane existence on Hinata as that! I wouldn't doubt that it got some NaruHina's angry as well.

Okay, let's examine what's wrong with that reasoning (aside from the fact that it's terribly old-fashioned).

-Though I concede that Hinata's gender-specific background in such a clan would include house-wife duties, I doubt she would do everything herself when considering her position AND her work. She cannot be a housewife 24/7 and be a ninja at the same time. She has *cough* Branchhouse members to do some of that for her. <insert picture of Neji in an apron and scrubbing floors>

-Now Naruto on the other hand has always wanted recognition. Unfortunately, since he's been alone most of his life, I would think he is self-sufficient in all the basics of living -for example; cooking and cleaning. (Though it must be remembered he is also a male and that being messy in some fashion is more or less ingrained in every male psyche.)


Now, I would say something about defending NaruSaku at this point, but I would just be being repetitive; being inside a NaruSaku forum and all.
'Cleaning dirty underwear...?' Certainly a blow to modern day gender roles.

[Random Nobody]

And i feel that if narusaku happens, they won't be as snuggly wuggly as i think couples should be.

um....."snuggly wuggly" yea thats kind of the strangest I've ever heard anyone say about a pairing. Oh and

For the job of housemaker and snuggle buddy, we need Hinata.

Is it just me or are NaruHina fans closet Hinata bashers, cause I could have sworn she had her own goals in the seris that don't involve being Naruto's "snuggle buddy".

[Pyroneko 28]

Is it just me or are NaruHina fans closet Hinata bashers, cause I could have sworn she had her own goals in the series that don't involve being Naruto's "snuggle buddy".

Keep in mind that unfortunately many judge a character solely on what pairing they feel said character should be placed in, so it doesn't matter if Hinata doesn't change herself and gain acknowledgement from her clan provided she's thrown into a relationship with Naruto.

For the job of housemaker and snuggle buddy, we need Hinata.

That has to be THE worst logic I've heard... since yesterday, actually (what happens when you see too many NaruHina arguements)... Naruto needs someone who actually knows happening with and to him, someone who can (occasionally) keep him in line, and someone who cares yet doesn't worship him like some kind of deity.

Hinata shouldn't be shoved into some housewife position. How about becoming Hyuuga clan head or co-head? Well at least it's been proven that for some, it doesn't matter if you have to turn the clock back 50 years, if it means getting their "beloved" pairing. :shakes head: For shame, for shame...

[Pite]

Hinata is to be a clan head and a clan head cannot sit all day and do household chores... And Naru needs someone that could descipline him... Someone strong... Lika Sakura or even Ino.... Thought Sakura would be better...

[Random Nobody]

Keep in mind that unfortunately many judge a character solely on what pairing they feel said character should be placed in, so it doesn't matter if Hinata doesn't change herself and gain acknowledgement from her clan provided she's thrown into a relationship with Naruto.

Now thats just sad, its like saying "Hey Hinata all of your character development, your past, and your goals in life are meaningless so why don't you just go snuggle with Naruto"

That has to be THE worst logic I've heard... since yesterday, actually (what happens when you see too many NaruHina arguements)... Naruto needs someone who actually knows happening with and to him, someone who can (occasionally) keep him in line, and someone who cares yet doesn't worship him like some kind of deity.

Hinata shouldn't be shoved into some housewife position. How about becoming Hyuuga clan head or co-head? Well at least it's been proven that for some, it doesn't matter if you have to turn the clock back 50 years, if it means getting their "beloved" pairing. :shakes head: For shame, for shame...

For shame indeed and....wait, you've heard logic worse than this! I don't even want to think about what could be worse logic than this.

Hinata is to be a clan head and a clan head cannot sit all day and do household chores... And Naru needs someone that could descipline him... Someone strong... Lika Sakura or even Ino.... Thought Sakura would be better...

Yea, Naruto would be better off with Sakura....or Ino....or Both

[DazeDreamer]

Oh for crying out loud! Helllo girl here VERY OFFENDED! What so guys can't do a little cooking and cleaning? I swear who ever wrote this is a SEXIST! -mutters- Feh. NEEDS a woman indeed. Baka...

ANyway yeah I don't thinik Hinata-chan would throw away everything's she's workedd hard for just for a guy she has a CRUSH on. Plus I agree shouldn't Naruto know a little about cooking and cleaning himself? He lives on his own remember?

And Snuggly-wuggly......Oh please what are you 5?! Seriously who says that besides a 5-6 year old? Ugh.

[jmf]

snuggly wuggly i did'nt realize we were using kindergarten talk,oh well they are cute together i have to say that and i hope we get more debate type stuff from upcoming chapters.

[sharingank]

Poor Hinata...she gets so much crap, it's not even funny--from her FANS, no less. A lot of them degrade her without realizing it, which makes me sad, indeed.

I mean, I'll admit, I never used to have positive feelings toward Hinata, but my outlook on the entire series has changed drastically since my first introduction to the Narutoverse. Hinata may not have a strong ego or much self-esteem, but she does have her good qualities. I give her a lot of credit for standing up to Neji during the Chuunin exams and lasting as long as she did against him. Say whatever you want, but Neji's a powerful guy, and not many people could do what she did.

Personally, I want Neji and Hinata together, and I'd love to see them unite and rule the clan. It'd be the ultimate one-up for both of them. XD

And...as many have said before, admiring someone is not the same as loving them. I just can't see how Hinata and Naruto would work, especially since the poor girl loses her composure whenever she's near him. That just screams trouble to me.

[jmf]

ummm their are two things stopping that first my secret like anyone cares,and two incest ever heard of it.this whole idea makes me sick.

[sharingank]

What secret? Do you know Kishi personally or something?

And they're cousins. It's not like they're siblings. And incest is not uncommon in other countires (like Japan).

[Sakura Blossoms]

And they're cousins. It's not like they're siblings. And incest is not uncommon in other countires (like Japan).

Especially in Japan. Just look at any number of different animes, and you'll see how common cousin and cousin relationships actually are over there

[Pyroneko 28]

For shame indeed and....wait, you've heard logic worse than this!

Disclaimer: The following are quoted statements from actual NaruHina fans. These are extreme examples, and I'm sure there are logical arguements out there (somewhere)

-But what about Hinata? She'll be so heartbroken
-Hinata worships like he's her personal god, and asks herself "What would Naruto do?"
-But Hinata's the only who would care about him
-Hinata-hime deserves Naruto after what happened to her
-Anyone logical person can see NaruSaku is a copout

Take your pick.

By the way, nice avatar Nobody. Which nobody is that anyway?

[Nate River]

[quote name='NaruSaku fan' date='Jun 17 2006, 02:07 PM' post='65694']
Ah yet another debate! Yay!

[quote]Why SasuSaku?
1.) Who else would Sakura have? Naruto is with Hinata.
2.) Sakura trained for three years, worked her ass off just to save Sasuke. She's not just gonna turn around and say "hey! Naruto is even cuter, so I'm going to forget Sasuke!" Shonen anime is predictable, I repeat, you can pretty much tell the couples after the first 10 episodes.
3.) GOOD GOD, There was like HALF an episode just dedicated to the scene where Sasuke left Sakura. This is DEFINATELY a hint that is a MAJOR couple. Probably the MAIN couple. And Sakura even now, is still all "Sasuke-kun...-ish", so that means she hasn't forgotten him at all.[/quote]

Oh for crying out loud ppl! Why do you ppl seem to pair of Naruto with Hinata all of a sudden?! :shamefulcry0js: No Sakura isn't going to fawn over Naruto all of a sudden. No way! It will take TIME for Sakura to admit her feelings. Plus big deal most Shonen are predictable! In 10 episodes what about Neji,Ten-Ten,Shika,Ino? Huh what about those? The MAIN couple? Main?! Okay is this show called Sasuke? No! The main pairing is most likely Naru-kun's love life.
[/quote]
[/quote]

1) This is a non-argument unless, Kishimoto is completely feels he must pair up Sakura with someone. Of course, another answer to the question is Sai. I am not arguing that this is Kishomoto's intent, but he has laid some background to where it wouldn't be totally out of the blue like, say Neji, would. But, seriously, if we asking who else she sould be paired with based on the fact that Naruto is taken, then why not Sai? Second, and more importantly, if this intended as an argument (as opposed to a statement of personal preference) then it's assuming the truth of the latter statement, which I also dispute. As I've said before, the manga provides only weak evidence of such a possibility. Because of time issues, I'll simply refer to my post earlier in this thread.

http://www.narusaku....opic=2436&st=20

And to that I would also add: what's Hinata's role in the series? I think it would be quite shallow and unfair to her to simply say to be with Naruto and nothing else. I don' recall Kishimoto introducing any character solely for pairing reasons, so why is Hinata an exception? After the Chuunin exams she has had minimal relevance to the series. Could she have increased relevance later. Sure, but I think that it says something that we would have to wait well over 100+ chapters (Chuuinin exam to whenever it occurs) for such a thing to happen. If she were meant for Naruto, why has there been zero development of her and their relationship for so long. Both NaruSaku and SasuSaku have received significant attention since that point while Hinata and NaruHina have received virtually zero. She is no more important to the story than Shikamaru, or Neji, or Lee, or Ino. Each one received significant attention for maybe an arc or 2, but has been completely absent since, which I think adequately signifies there side character status. And Hinata, she has had significance in one arc and has not resurfaced since then except for a couple of brief cameos. She received the same treatment as any other side character and, thus, is also a side character.

This is the reverse of a SasuSaku argument that frustrates many debaters, because it essentially states that Sakura should be with Sasuke by default. I will be extremely disappointed if Kishimoto simply slaps Naruto, Sakura, or Sasuke with some simply for the sake of doing so or for no other reason that they need each without any prior development. Regardless of the pairing, I want there to be significant development of the relationship. Simply slapping them together reminds me of the many fanfics that eschew development of the relationship in order to get the desired pairing as fast as possible. For me, the best part if the journey getting there, not the destination itself. Just as Hinata is sometimes treated as the consolation prize, this statement appears to do the same with Sakura.

2) I know of no one who seriously argues this. The development of Sakura's feelings has been more subtle than that. Sakura has just decide "oh my, Naruto's so cute now." The evolution of Sakura's feelings had been a slow but steady alteration from hating him to liking him. Sakura's change has had nothing to with looks, but the fact that Naruto has supported, cheered her on (Chuunin exams), and has been there for her when she needed him the most (Gaara and Sasuke arcs). Naruto has slowly been making his way into her heart because of his actions and not his looks. If Sakura falls in love with Naruto, its not a sudden shift from "Sasuke's great, Naruto Sucks" to"Sasuke Sucks, Naruto's great" but is the result of long term developments based on the actions of both Sasuke and Naruto.

On the predictability things, I suspect some may argue that NaruSaku was also being set up in that time frame...see Chapter 3, and Episode 3.

3) Main couple, not NaruHina? If it were to be the main couple, I suppose a better title for the Manga would be "Sasuke" then? In any case, this argument tends to ignore the fact that there are corresponding NaruSaku developments. I don't normally watch the anime, so I don't know how much time these moments last in an episode, but to use this as an argument tends to suggest that NaruSaku is just as likely since they have had significant time as well. This also tends to put a premium on form over substance, so to speak. That the significance of any development is based on the literal time given in a particular episode. Of course, time does matter, but this person is giving more importance to it that it deserves. Second, it seems to presume an underlying interpretation of the scene, which I also dispute. And the Sasuke-kun thing? I actually be surpisedd if she ever stopped calling him that, because she has always called him that and, at the same time, I'd be supressed if she called Naruto anything but Naruto. I don't know enough about the Japanese language to fairly interpret the significance of all this, but I know enough to know that his argument is bit simplistic in its treatment of this subject.

[quote]
Here's one you NaruSaku fans will like:

[quote]SasuSaku: Let's rewind to the Chuunin Exams.

1. Sakura was the only witness to what Orochimaru did to Sasuke.
2. Sasuke asked Sakura when he was cursed, "Sakura, tell me who did that to you and I will beat him up." (OH THE JOY OF HAVING HIM SAID THAT TO HER!!! *jumps!*)
3. Sakura being the only one to stop Sasuke from being berserk in the first outburst of his curse. She hugged him and begged him to stop it and the curse subsided.
4. Sakura being concerned for Sasuke in the assembly for the preliminary matches. Sasuke told her it was nothing and she should keep her mouth shut about his condition.
5. During the invasion of Konoha, Sakura blocked the attack of Gaara for Sasuke. She was already near death!
6. Sasuke felt jealous(?) of Naruto because he was able to save Sakura, instead of him, saving her. (I think it was evident enough! ~_~?)

[/quote]
[/quote]


The thing about this one is, it tends only to prove something we already knew about Sakura in part 1: That Sakura likes Sasuke. No one disputes that part 1 Sakura liked Sasuke. The only question with her was how genuine her feelings were, given that she knew nothing about him when we first learned of the crush. I think they became more genuine as part 1 developed. The same is true of Naruto, we knew he liked Sakura from the moment she entered the series. However, the problem with the relationsnhip was Sakura. Conversely, in SasuSaku, the problem was Sasuke. Thus proving Sakura liked Sasuke only proves something we already knew, and does not prove the relationship because this person does not prove that Sasuke returns her feelings

I'd have to go back to the Manga before I can agree or disagree with point 6. But it begs the question, what was he jealous of? That Naruto saved Sakura when Sasuke really wanted to be hero and save her from danger or was he jealous of the fact Naruto succeeded where he had failed and, thus, suggesting something about Sasuke's current strength compared to Naruto's.


[quote]
1. Sakura knew he was going
2. She begged him not to go and even confessed that she didn't like him anymore, she already learned how to LOVE him
3. Sasuke said "thank you" to Sakura.

Sasuke wouldn't have said that to Sakura if, in his heart, he didn't love a thing about her, even the teeny weeny little bit of her. Don't you think so?

[/quote]

Points 1 and 2 do the same as the above argument: tends to prove something we already knew (that Sakura liked Sasuke in part 1) and no really disputes. Second, the last statement is a strawman argument. It's an extreme I have never heard a NaruSaku debater use. All that statement says is that he would not have said that if he cared nothing for her. Well, sure, its difficult to say he cared nothing for her, and I have not meant anyone who was taken this position. But that's not the issue, the issue typically is was he in love with her. I don't doubt that he cared, but I do dispute the notion that this proves he was in love with her.

When he leaves Sasuke makes an inherently selfish choice. He leaves to kill his brother as a matter of vengeance. I'd be more receptive to the SasuSaku reading if had left to kill Itachi for her protection, but he did not. His choices were not mutually exclusive. Staying in Konoha does not mean he never kills Itachi. If he loves her so much, why does he not stay and train with her? Orochimaru does not only the only path, simply the quickest. In addition, as someone as perceptive as Sasuke had to know that when he did this he odds of coming (and being welcomed) were low. Leaving essentially meant giving up his Konoha relationships. I have seen no indication that he was leaving with the intent to return and come back to Sakura, something I would expect to see if he was in love with her. He was going to a notorious missing-nin who he knew wanted his body. I think he appreciates what Sakura has done for him and the fact that she cares as much as she does, but I think its a significant stretch to say it means more than that. If he loves her then that love pales in comparison to his desire for vengeance.

Aethos, I don't think I will. I think that it speaks for itself and has been dealt with adequately by our fellow board members. It's nothing more than a variation on the "they look cute together" argument. This assumes Kishimoto agrees with the statement and two, that the this basis behind his pairing decisions, of which there is no proof of either. And yeah, NaruSaku fan, its pretty sexist.

[demonfox04]

The way they make their arguments is showing they really don't care much about the pairing NaruHina but they just care about Hinata. Having a fav character besides the main chara. is fine but don't try to make them seem like every decision the main charac., in this case Naruto, makes will affect him. If Hinata truly wishes to be like Naruto, then she wouldn't be heartbroken if Naruto goes with someone else. She would be mad or sad at first, then try and move on.

There is Kiba and Neji. I personally like KIba better but I have no problem with HinaNeji cuz the Hyuuga clan is a royal clan of Konoha and it is not uncommon for royalty to have incest going on.

[Nate River]

Well, I just read 312, so I guess the retrort to my Sai statement is Ino.

[jmf]

well i don't know kishi personally but i do have my sources so for the moment forget about the secret, and i still think incest is sick and wrong even if they are cousins i mean come on.