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#201 Chatte

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:05 PM

If you're going to apply this to Sakura, then you have to apply this to EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER SASUKE HAS INTERACTED WITH OR KNOWN. How many could he have loved, but not let in his life? And what does that make Team Taka who he did let in? So this whole backwards logic is "If Sasuke says he loves you, he actually hates you, but if he says he hates you, then he actually loves you."

You might as well say Ino has a strong place in his heart then by that logic or even Hinata and it would make just about as much sense as everything else. Sorry, I am not buying it. So basically, to you guys, it is impossible for Sasuke to be indifferent to people. It is impossible for Sasuke to not care even to the people he has never met. Maybe all babies that haven't been born yet. Why not? We are going radical with this anyway, so why not? Sasuke loves everyone because he wants to kill them all.

 

Well, I, myself wasn't referring only to Sakura but generally speaking. He may have loved many, who knows? The point here is that each of us make decisions and Sasuke made his. I am not excusing him or anything, don't get me wrong, but here like in real life it's all about the decisions you made. What does that make Taka? Well, I know what it does, do you? Does anyone else who is able to detach from their preference or indifference or hate towards the character to detach themselves and look at the story overall? Sasuke's main problem is that, like I always said, he considers that bonds make him weak that's why he wants to severe them, that's why he wants to kill Naruto. To do it now, with his own hands, than later see him killed in a new war. Because we like it or not, he was Sasuke's best friend. 
The fact that he went crazy when killed Karin should have told people something, but people refused to see it and just leave it at crazy Sasuke. Yes, he was crazy, but he had a reason to be. In his own mind. The thing is don't see this through our moral world, try to see it from his POV. If people want to understand Sasuke they need to look at him from his pov, not theirs. That's where some kick it in.

As for your logic, Sasuke never said he loves someone, don't try to put a simple logic where there lie more complications.
If we observe correctly his character throughout the story, we can tell who is important enough or who isn't. For example now, is Naruto while Sakura to him is trash, not even worth killing. Why? Because Sakura's death wouldn't affect him in any way (while with Karin it did, by the author's own words) thus having to suffer but if it were to happen something to Naruto, he would suffer in his own twisted ways. That's why he wants to cut all the ties because he wants no distractions to his plans. This paired up with what he thinks about bonds, you have figured Sasuke's character.

Just think about how much it hurts when someone precious to you dies. Basically what Sasuke wants is to not go through that because it will affect his judgement in his plans. So then, he better does it now, before actually starting with the plan so that afterwards, there will be nothing in his way and he can be that darkness. 
He's actually very predictable, just harder to read.

I agree though that his decisions based on our moral compass are skewed and not so humane as he might think they are under his impression, but in order to understand Sasuke and to see the way out of this, you have to think and see like him. Put yourself in his shoes. 

I agree with you as well, don't get me wrong, but that's where the point is. Basically, Sasuke is pure, but he goes all the wrong ways and that's where Naruto has to show him, what it is supposed to be the right way...
 


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#202 Otaru

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:07 PM

.........you really do seriously overestimate Sasuke's "feelings." That is SS logic right there. No matter what Sasuke says, feels, or speaks of his mind...to you it is apparently not the truth and really Sasuke is the vision of what you believe he is.

Sorry, but there is no evidence to any of what you trying to put down. You base your whole view of Sasuke on an outlier.
 

 

No I don't think I am.

 

Let's look again at what I said :

 

...

 

I know you hate Sasuke, so it may be hard for you to see or accept it. But right now, it feels clear to me.
Also, I was mostly sharing my opinion, not trying to prove something. So no need to say to me I'm trying to "put something down " or that I have "SS logic ".

 

See those bold words ? It's my opinion. I'm not trying to prove something with this. I said " I'm sure ", "it's a possibility", "maybe". I'm just giving my opinion. You think I over-estimate his feelings, right. You have the right to think like that. I'm just giving my opinion, and I'm not trying you guys to force you to think like me.

IMO, it's true Kishimoto could make Sasuke finally fall in love with Sakura after he would have redeemed him. He's the author, he can do whatever he wants, and with Sasuke, it's easy because he's like a blank page. I'm not lying, he could do that. He's actually in the beginning of redeeming Sasuke. We just don't really now how will be Sasuke's feelings when he will be back in Konoha. Because Naruto will "heal" him and then he will let other's feelings enter. Whe don't really know what could have happened with a "normal" Sasuke. Since Sasuke was broken since the very beginning of the story. If he had his parents, family and Uchiha clan back then when he met team7, what could have happened ? Maybe he would have loved Sakura back. We just don't know because he was so broken, he wasn't his real self.

 

The two last chapters gave us a glimpse of what Sasuke is actually feeling, and to me, he's clearly suffering, he's rejecting other's love, he doesn't want anybody to love him, he thinks he's unworthy of love, he sees himself as a mistake, he wants to sacrifice himself, he wants peace, he wants to honour his brother, and he wants to protect Konoha. Of course he's taking the wrong path. But indeed, his goals are divine. He's in fact sacrificial to the utmost. That's what Kishimoto is writing. I'm not inventing it. 

 

Making Sasuke finally fall in love with Sakura, that could be a good way to show Sakura is really in love with Naruto. If she's able to be with Sasuke just a little, the two of them, and if she talk with him, like in RtN, she will realise Naruto he's the one she really loves. And after that, nobody could say Naruto is just a replacement. Because she would have realised she loves him, and she would have chosen him even when she could be with Sasuke.

 

-------------------

Also, I saw some of you are trying to prove that Sasuke doesn't care at all about her because he doesn't wants to kill her to get rid of his feelings for her ?? I mean what ? Sasuke doesn't love her. THAT is SasuSaku logic. Sasuke wants to kill Naruto because Naruto stands in his way. Sakura doesn't. That's why he doesn't want to kill her. There is no need in killing her. If she was in his way, he would kill her, just like he wants to do with Naruto.

-------------------
 

Again, it's just my opinion. I'm not trying to shove it to your faces guys. I'm not trying to force you accept this. It's just the way I feel about what Kishimoto is doing right now, and what he could do in the future. I understand Sasuke better now.


Edited by Otaru, 02 October 2014 - 01:12 PM.

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#203 ioria

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:08 PM

Not that bad.. I was expecting worse.

Anyway, I'm really tired of Minato and Kushina faces everywhere... Itachi is way better xD


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#204 ns.Believe.It

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:08 PM

 

i agree this,... it's still doesn't have with sakura's feelings... sasuke cares more about t7 bonds.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. He did cherish the team 7 bond but he never loved Sakura romantically.

 

This is the point that SS conveniently forget. They say 'Sasuke will be redeemed and he'll become the guy he was in part 1'.  Yes, all fine and dandy BUT he never loved Sakura in part 1 too. So how exactly does his redemption imply Sasusaku canon? 


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#205 James S Cassidy

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:19 PM

I know you hate Sasuke, so it may be hard for you to see or accept it. But right now, it feels clear to me.

Also, I was mostly sharing my opinion, not trying to prove something. So no need to say to me I'm trying to "put something down " or that I have "SS logic ".

Wow, so basically you don't take anything I say as serious or my opinion because of this? Well, screw you too then, why should I take yours serious? Why should I take any of your guys opinions serious with how much Sakura hate gets spread around this forum. With all the Obito hate that gets spread and how everyone hates how Naruto thinks he is a "coolest guy." Yeah, I guess every one hates something and everyone's views are skewed.

But I'll remember this logic from now on...if I ever reread this manga, I'll feel that Sasuke loves and cherishes the Team 7 bonds every time he just lets them die or tell them they are worthless or basically leaves them to fend for themselves.

By the way, since you are going to just say my viewpoints are based solely on the shallow view that because I hate Sasuke, I am always going to belittle him...then I am going to make the case that because you love Sasuke so much you are willing to excuse his entire actions based on that love for him. See? I can make stupid assumptions too.

 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 02 October 2014 - 01:27 PM.

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#206 Advaith

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:21 PM

Trash Talk

 

Itachi wank.That will never end

 

Sasuke's redemption was already certain.I won't even discuss about his reason.

 

Alright Now quickly get this over with,we got more important things to settle like NaruSaku happening.


Edited by Advaith, 02 October 2014 - 01:23 PM.


#207 BlackBird19

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:24 PM

Even if kishi decides to make Sasuke do a 180 and be this open and loving guy who willing to be in a romantic relationship. It will be absolutely 100% unbelievable and unrealistic. The personality that he was given throughout this manga is of someone who will always be stoic, stand-offish and difficult to get along with. Even after his redemption.



#208 elmas

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:26 PM

No one is answering my question? :cry:  :cry:  :cry:

 

This week there's nothing to talk about except SasuNaru bromance. :argh:


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#209 Otaru

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:27 PM

 

Except he never intended to be "considered the bad guy" from the beginning. He didn't like her because he found her irritating.

 

Sasuke never sugarcoats his words. If he thought he was unworthy, etc. he would have simply said that. Instead he mocks her, calling her love a fantasy. If he doesn't have a sliver of respect for her feelings at all, how can he be touched by them?

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Again I understand why you think like that.

 

IMO he's cold to his former comrades because it's hard for him to bear strong feelings.
He said that, but on the next page, he's thinking of his family while listening to Kakashi. That means he's understanding Sakura's feelings. He's rejecting his past feelings for his family. He wants to erase the past in order to stop suffering from the lost of his family. That's something buried deep down into himself.

 

I think Kishimoto is on his way to undig those feelings of his. Things about Sasuke will become clearer when Naruto will dig into it.


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#210 only Naruto

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:29 PM

 

No I don't think I am.

 

Let's look again at what I said :

 

...

 

I know you hate Sasuke, so it may be hard for you to see or accept it. But right now, it feels clear to me.
Also, I was mostly sharing my opinion, not trying to prove something. So no need to say to me I'm trying to "put something down " or that I have "SS logic ".

 

See those bold words ? It's my opinion. I'm not trying to prove something with this. I said " I'm sure ", "it's a possibility", "maybe". I'm just giving my opinion. You think I over-estimate his feelings, right. You have the right to think like that. I'm just giving my opinion, and I'm not trying you guys to force you to think like me.

IMO, it's true Kishimoto could make Sasuke finally fall in love with Sakura after he would have redeemed him. He's the author, he can do whatever he wants, and with Sasuke, it's easy because he's like a blank page. I'm not lying, he could do that. He's actually in the beginning of redeeming Sasuke. We just don't really now how will be Sasuke's feelings when he will be back in Konoha. Because Naruto will "heal" him and then he will let other's feelings enter. Whe don't really know what could have happened with a "normal" Sasuke. Since Sasuke was broken since the very beginning of the story. If he had his parents, family and Uchiha clan back then when he met team7, what could have happened ? Maybe he would have loved Sakura back. We just don't know because he was so broken, he wasn't his real self.

 

The two last chapters gave us a glimpse of what Sasuke is actually feeling, and to me, he's clearly suffering, he's rejecting other's love, he doesn't want anybody to love him, he thinks he's unworthy of love, he sees himself as a mistake, he wants to sacrifice himself, he wants peace, he wants to honour his brother, and he wants to protect Konoha. Of course he's taking the wrong path. But indeed, his goals are divine. He's in fact sacrificial to the utmost. That's what Kishimoto is writing. I'm not inventing it. 

 

Making Sasuke finally fall in love with Sakura, that could be a good way to show Sakura is really in love with Naruto. If she's able to be with Sasuke just a little, the two of them, and if she talk with him, like in RtN, she will realise Naruto he's the one she really loves. And after that, nobody could say Naruto is just a replacement. Because she would have realised she loves him, and she would have chosen him even when she could be with Sasuke.

 

-------------------

Also, I saw some of you are trying to prove that Sasuke doesn't care at all about her because he doesn't wants to kill her to get rid of his feelings for her ?? I mean what ? Sasuke doesn't love her. THAT is SasuSaku logic. Sasuke wants to kill Naruto because Naruto stands in his way. Sakura doesn't. That's why he doesn't want to kill her. There is no need in killing her. If she was in his way, he would kill her, just like he wants to do with Naruto.

-------------------
 

Again, it's just my opinion. I'm not trying to shove it to your faces guys. I'm not trying to force you accept this. It's just the way I feel about what Kishimoto is doing right now, and what he could do in the future. I understand Sasuke better now.

HMMM. .what i understood from your posts .is that if sasuke stayed with team seven he might loved sakura back and  . and even now after all what happened from negative moments its still possible that if he is redeemed  and back at konoha  and spend time with sakura hi might fall in love with her.  . but because we have naruto  as the main character and he loves sakura .and she is feeling for him . its too late for ss to happen and it doesnt fit the story .. so ss fans have some right to ship  ss but they are shipping it  in the wrong story  did i get what u said right ?  :sweat: if i did get it right . then i think u r right and i agree .

 


#211 Sinedd

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:31 PM

Chapter 694: Naruto and Sasuke
Sasuke has decided to talk about his "TRUE DREAM" and what it means to become Hokage, what is a Hokage.
He has an interesting opinion, but he is still wrong: at least, he doesn't hate Itachi anymore and understood his actions. But he didn't understood everything!
Itachi said: If you become too prideful and forget about all the people who gave you strength that brought you to this moments and get too focused on the individual, sooner or later, you'll become just like Madara. Itachi was right all the time. Itachi was always smarter than Sasuke and a better Shinobi. I'm sure that Sasuke thinks that he had surpassed his brother, but he didn't, he never will!
Sasuke is just like Madara, both of them have narcissistic personality! Too bad Sasuke didn't ally with Madara! He is ALONE NOW! The last Uchiha.
Last time I said Sasuke is a better Hokage, now I changed my mind: You can't do everything by yourself, command everything...NARUTO IS A BETTER HOKAGE! He works with people, listen the people...Sasuke is wrong!
THE FRIENDSHIP COLLIDES! SASUKE VS. NARUTO LAST BATTLE STARTS NOW!
IMPORTANT MESSAGE: Manga will not release Wednesdays anymore, only on Thursday, same day with Anime.
Copied from the Internet, a user posted this: The reason we got Naruto, Bleach, One Piece (Jump magazine) on Tuesdays is because we actually got them before they even release in Japan. This was possible because Jump is shipped to stores, which will put them on the shelves on the following Monday. Well, of course some of these places will leak the raws early, which then get translated and here we are.

Recently, the company that publishes Jump put in policies to delay the release of Jump being shipped to stores. This reduces how close leaks happen in comparison to the actual release, but unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your pov) this doesn't really solve the root problem of "stuff getting scanned and posted online



#212 Chatte

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:32 PM

 

HMMM. .what i understood from your posts .is that if sasuke stayed with team seven he might loved sakura back and  . and even now after all what happened from negative moments its still possible that if he is redeemed  and back at konoha  and spend time with sakura hi might fall in love with her.  . but because we have naruto  as the main character and he loves sakura .and she is feeling for him . its too late for ss to happen and it doesnt fit the story .. so ss fans have some right to ship  ss but they are shipping it  in the wrong story  did i get what u said right ?  :sweat: if i did get it right . then i think u r right and i agree .

 

 

Yeap, basically that sumps it up. And what SS-ers do is basically deny canon evidence on WHY it wouldn't work, otherwise, to each his own...


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#213 Liu bie

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:35 PM

No one is answering my question? :cry:  :cry:  :cry:

 

This week there's nothing to talk about except SasuNaru bromance. :argh:

We do not have sketches  sorry.


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#214 elmas

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:36 PM

We do not have sketches  sorry.

Thanks for the answer.:D


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#215 BlackBird19

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:38 PM

Sasuke only understands and is capable of feeling familial love. That is the character kishimoto created. Not once in canon has an Uchiha been shown to be someone who's romantic by nature. Their thoughts and concerns have always been family, clan and duty first. That is why Sasuke has to kill Naruto with his own hands because he is only bond that truly reminds Sasuke of that familial love.



#216 only Naruto

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:38 PM

Yeap, basically that sumps it up. And what SS-ers do is basically deny canon evidence on WHY it wouldn't work, otherwise, to each his own...

 aah. ok .  i hope they see the truth now . so they dont get heartbroken at the end  :no:

 


#217 narusaku256

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:39 PM

Uh huh! Okay okay chapter. Sasuke going blah blah blah and Naruto going blah blah blah. I told ya guys that Sasuke cares the most for Naruto. But finally.....the fight of the decade....BEGINS!!!!

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#218 FireFox

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:40 PM

I feel like people has clearly mistaken Shonen with Shoujo   this is not some twisted romance  were Sasuke will come to love Sakura for crying out loud if Sasuke felt for her even as he is  then he would have showed that like he does with Naruto she would have impacted him clearly but instead she pisses him of and feels indifferent toward her  her personality repulses him .  Sasuke is blunt and honest  he shows when he feels and speaks what he feels what's on his mind  he admitted that Naruto impacts him  but if he says that he doesn't love Sakura  and he has no reason to love her then its false   seriously  this kind of faulty logic I haven't seen in a very long time this is just plain ridiculous  :facepalm: .


Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 02 October 2014 - 01:42 PM.

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#219 Otaru

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:50 PM

Some of my thoughts cause I am too lazy to type again, lol: http://www.chatte-ge...nts-naruto-693/

 

I do agree a lot with this part

 

first part

 

But I don't agree completely with this part, even if I agree for the most :

 

second part

 

Especially when you're saying he said "sorry" to Karin and not to Sakura.

IMO this is not proving he cares more about Karin.

 

IMO, Naruto and Sakura are more important to him than Taka. Because they were here for him first. IMO, those bonds are eternal to him. He will never get rid of it, even if he wants to. The first friends in someone's life are things impossible to forget. So IMO team7 will always be in his heart with strong bonds.

I think Sasuke in reality care more for Sakura than he wants to admit. I think he's rejecting those feelings strongly. I'm not saying he's actually in love with her and doesn't want to admit it. IMO he never let her enter. And he never let anybody enter. Because he didn't want to be loved. When he decided to leave Konoha, his goal was taking a real shape. Before that, it was only some fantasy of killing his brother, and at that time, he let Naruto, Kakashi and Sakura enter a little in his life. He even said they was precious to him. He even defend them with his life.

 

I agree with you the young Sakura hurted Sasuke sometimes. She also hurted Naruto. She was very childish. But Sasuke cared for her, and IMO it's still in there in him, hidden somewhere, even if it's not showing clearly, and even if he's not saying "sorry" to her.
You see what I mean ?

 

Ino?  :confused: Sasuke did once hold team seven very close to his heart. He has never cared for others the way he cared for Naruto and sometimes Sakura too. I think this is what Otaru is trying to say. We all know that Kishi will inevitably use this 'team 7 bond' as one of the influencing factors to change Sasuke's heart. 

 

Yes that's it. I'm not trying to fuel SasuSaku at all. =)

 

I do love this logic though. Apparently, the less Sasuke says he cares, the more he actually does. So he must really care about Ino, Hinata, and a lot of other girls because he never talks about them at all and doesn't even acknowledge their existence. Got it. Explains so much.
 

 

No, he cares about Naruto and that is about it. Sakura and Kakashi don't even show up on his radar and he only really acknowledges them when they attempt to talk to them. You can't sit here and tell me that he cherishes that Team 7 bond when he has repeatedly left them to die, almost killed them himself, and or treats them less than his own garbage.

To him, Sakura and Kakashi are just a joke.

 

 

IMO, you're very wrong about that. IMO, it's the first appearance that make you think this way. But IMO in reality he cares. He listened to Sakura. He listened to Kakashi. He doesn't want to let them enter. He just wants to be hated. That's why he seems to not care about them. He wants to sacrifice all the bonds he could have or make. For peace. He doesn't want to let Naruto enter either right now. He admitted Naruto was his best friend, but he's still willing to kill him. Because to him, achieving his goals is more important than his own happiness. He's just the same as Naruto, but in a dark way. They are perfect opposite with the same goal.


Edited by Otaru, 02 October 2014 - 02:32 PM.

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#220 Nefertieh

Nefertieh

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:59 PM

 

Again I understand why you think like that.

 

IMO he's cold to his former comrades because it's hard for him to bear strong feelings.
He said that, but on the next page, he's thinking of his family while listening to Kakashi. That means he's understanding Sakura's feelings. He's rejecting his past feelings for his family. He wants to erase the past in order to stop suffering from the lost of his family. That's something buried deep down into himself.

 

I think Kishimoto is on his way to undig those feelings of his. Things about Sasuke will become clearer when Naruto will dig into it.

 

Ofcourse. He can sympathize with Sakura's plight only in the context of relating it back to his own family, ie non-romantic love. But he isn't the least "touched" by Sakura's feelings.

 

He's not rejecting her because he feels he's "unworthy". He's rejecting her because he finds her annoying.


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