Interests:Naruto, NaruSaku, Guilty Gear, Blazblue, Love Hina, Full Metal Panic!, The Legend of Zelda, League of Legends, videogames and anime in general.
Before Sandaime even warns them, he doesn't act goofy or anything. Even when he's making a snide remark, he doesn't mask it with humor, like he clearly would now.
And even then, lines like "no matter how much the world changes, there is always fighting" make it hard to believe that this is the same guy as the one resurrected in the current chapter.
To which I can say the following: If you notice in this chapter, he doesn't get goofy until he finds out about Minato. In fact, you can see that his expression is at first a calm and collected one. I could go as far as to say that when he says "what do you mean?" to his brother, he is still being calm. Plus as far as I've seen, he's always respectful towards the Third.
Here is something even more interesting: he repeats the same line in both chapters - "The world is always fighting"
EDIT: Your edits are making this difficult XD
Anyway, on the contrary, I feel like this is what indicates that he is still the same Hashirama, since he regrets this on both occasions.
Edited by Shadow Wolf, 06 February 2013 - 02:30 AM.
To which I can say the following: If you notice in this chapter, he doesn't get goofy until he finds out about Minato. In fact, you can see that his expression is at first a calm and collected one. I could go as far as to say that when he says "what do you mean?" to his brother, he is still being calm. Plus as far as I've seen, he's always respectful towards the Third.
Here is something even more interesting: he repeats the same line in both chapters - "The world is always fighting"
@the bolded. Well, you've got me there. I didn't notice that detail. Sorry about that, and thanks for pointing that out.
@the rest. That is literally the only line he has before he gets silly. And look at the third panel. That doesn't look too calm or collected. More like curious. And even if he was calm or collected, a whopping one line of serious dialogue is not very persuading considering his behavior for the rest of the chapter.
I don't really see the issue with Hashirama's personality. The Hashi of Part 1 wasn't really used for anything other than to establish Orochimaru's twisted depravity and how powerful he is, e.g. summoning the dead is horrifying enough, but to summon the Hokages that also used to be Hiruzen's teachers? The audience should feel some kind of disgust or should be impressed that he summoned two powerful figures back from the dead. In that case, Hashirama wasn't a fully fleshed out character.
Years later, Hashirama is summoned again, Kishi's worked out Hashirama's own personality, even though it may be similar to Naruto's. Characterization marches on, in this case.
Besides, when you have a sibling duo, one is almost always the silly one and the other the Straight Man foil. I was more surprised that Tobirama seems fairly normal, if straight-laced, considering the implications that strong Shinobi = weird personality quirks (the good ones, at least, bad ninjas always seem to be insane).
I should've seen it coming, though. Hashirama's Element is Wood and Life, characters that're associated with nature are often vigorous, free spirited, or full of life. Tobirama uses Water, people who are affiliated with that element are usually calm and collected.
Of course, we didn't think we'd see them again, did we?
Also, isn't anything positive people post about the manga a trend, too? "Hi Don-kun is this another trend of your obvious like of the Manga? " It really doesn't need to be asked for the answer, does it?
Not to mention, I actually like this manga. The majority of it. Which is why I'm so critical of its recent...stumbles.
I haven't even talked about the "power of love" stuff yet, either. Oh boy, that'd be fun to dive into. x_x
I didn't know witch one to use so I decided on both. Love this Manga, I honestly believe that I dislike this Manga far more than you do, right now my biggest desire is to get back at those other shippers who bad mouthed me in the past or called me names for my pairing choice, but like you I'm normally quit about it.
There are so many things I disagree with this story, but I don't make it get over my head because at the end of the day it's just a fictional story where I kill time while spend some other with people who helped me have a far better English than what I had 1 year and 9 months ago.
I didn't know witch one to use so I decided on both. Me I honestly believe that I dislike this Manga far more than you do, right now my biggest desire is to get back at those other shippers who bad mouthed me in the past or called me name for my pairing choice but I'm normally quit about it.
There are many thing I disagree with this story but I don't make it get over my head because at the end of the day it's just a fictional story where I kill some time while spend some other with people who helped me have a better English than what I had 1 year and 9 months ago.
Ultimately, that's all we're doing. Talking about Naruto. A criticism should be just as welcome as praise, as long as it's not rude towards anyone on the boards.
As for you disliking the manga more than I do, alright then. I used an incorrect name for my example. The statement still stands; just replace your name with anyone's who likes the manga.
"The time has come at last for you to learn everything . . .
I didn't know witch one to use so I decided on both. Me I honestly believe that I dislike this Manga far more than you do, right now my biggest desire is to get back at those other shippers who bad mouthed me in the past or called me name for my pairing choice but I'm normally quit about it.
Don, stop. Seriously, not helping.
Also forgot. The usual Red Oni, Blue Oni, that pops up in Japanese media.
Also, isn't anything positive people post about the manga a trend, too? "Hi Don-kun is this another trend of your obvious like of the Manga? " It really doesn't need to be asked for the answer, does it?
Not to mention, I actually like this manga. The majority of it. Which is why I'm so critical of its recent...stumbles.
I haven't even talked about the "power of love" stuff yet, either. Oh boy, that'd be fun to dive into. x_x
To be honest Zac, at times you seem almost cynical. No offense, but there was even a time you complained a lot that none of the Konoha 11 people were getting killed during the war, but as soon as Neji dies you were the one of the first to protest it. "He shouldn't have died." Well, you know, you wanted someone from the Konoha 11 to die and show lose. Some said they wanted a lesser character to die, but a lesser character wouldn't have made as much of an impact and then people would complain "We need important people to die."
So at times, I am not sure what you want. You complained about Obito a lot and even in the podcast you said you had a change of heart because you saw his flashback.
I even see people want answers for things, when they get the answers they still aren't happy.
Truth is, you can't really call BS on this one because the first barely spoke anything at that time and two sentences is not enough to judge someone's personality. We also have the fact in this time where the first is very relaxed at this moment.
Naruto, even with being a goofball, has shown to be a complete BA at times when things got serious. Look at the Pein Arc, was he a goofball then? Goku from Dragonball is the same way, yet when things get serious he wasn't goofing around. So it is quite possible that the first is serious until he knows he can relax.
So I don't think it is a fair assessment to claim that you know everything about the characters and say "this isn't right" when really we had no time to show the First's personality.
When I mentioned Kabuto's ET, I was specifically talking about when he activated whatever, similarly to Oro's early ET, that took away their personalities and made them into unemotional killing machines that did not talk. Just a clarification.
To be honest Zac, at times you seem almost cynical. No offense, but there was even a time you complained a lot that none of the Konoha 11 people were getting killed during the war, but as soon as Neji dies you were the one of the first to protest it. "He shouldn't have died." Well, you know, you wanted someone from the Konoha 11 to die and show lose. Some said they wanted a lesser character to die, but a lesser character wouldn't have made as much of an impact and then people would complain "We need important people to die."
So at times, I am not sure what you want. You complained about Obito a lot and even in the podcast you said you had a change of heart because you saw his flashback.
I even see people want answers for things, when they get the answers they still aren't happy.
Truth is, you can't really call BS on this one because the first barely spoke anything at that time and two sentences is not enough to judge someone's personality. We also have the fact in this time where the first is very relaxed at this moment.
Naruto, even with being a goofball, has shown to be a complete BA at times when things got serious. Look at the Pein Arc, was he a goofball then? Goku from Dragonball is the same way, yet when things get serious he wasn't goofing around. So it is quite possible that the first is serious until he knows he can relax.
So I don't think it is a fair assessment to claim that you know everything about the characters and say "this isn't right" when really we had no time to show the First's personality.
Yes, I wanted someone to die from the K11. But not Neji, Shikamaru, or anyone in there that was given a lot of development. We needed them. I thought that was self-explanatory. I guess I should've explained that part? Someone like Tenten isn't developed, but she's still deemed important because she's in the K11. That's the kind of important I always talked about.
My change of heart about Obito... I don't see why that is relevant here. I still like Obito because he was actually done well enough to persuade me that it made sense. What's happening in this chapter, though, just baffles.
Why would the First feel relaxed here? He's still dead and being brought back to life, by the person who brought him back last time no less. Why would he feel relaxed here? Why would any of them? They're still being brought back to life by a forbidden jutsu, and Hashirama's silliness exposed itself after he learned the same guy that brought him back last time to fight his old comrade brought him back again. If anything, he should be just as serious as he was the last time, if not more.
Edited by zacrathedemon5, 06 February 2013 - 02:55 AM.
"The time has come at last for you to learn everything . . .
To be honest Zac, at times you seem almost cynical. No offense, but there was even a time you complained a lot that none of the Konoha 11 people were getting killed during the war, but as soon as Neji dies you were the one of the first to protest it. "He shouldn't have died." Well, you know, you wanted someone from the Konoha 11 to die and show lose. Some said they wanted a lesser character to die, but a lesser character wouldn't have made as much of an impact and then people would complain "We need important people to die."
So at times, I am not sure what you want. You complained about Obito a lot and even in the podcast you said you had a change of heart because you saw his flashback.
I even see people want answers for things, when they get the answers they still aren't happy.
Truth is, you can't really call BS on this one because the first barely spoke anything at that time and two sentences is not enough to judge someone's personality. We also have the fact in this time where the first is very relaxed at this moment.
Naruto, even with being a goofball, has shown to be a complete BA at times when things got serious. Look at the Pein Arc, was he a goofball then? Goku from Dragonball is the same way, yet when things get serious he wasn't goofing around. So it is quite possible that the first is serious until he knows he can relax.
So I don't think it is a fair assessment to claim that you know everything about the characters and say "this isn't right" when really we had no time to show the First's personality.
To be fair I didn't like the first impression I got from Hashirama, I kind of cringe of the way Kishi was making an excuse to justify why he would make Naruto Hokage after the war when we all feel that Naruto is not mature enough, plus there is the fact that Kishi is going on with another parallel fetish and possible another pairing drama if he shows what was Mito's personality. While many stated that the loved the way Hashi acted, with me he lost some point in my book, his personality just felt like kind of forced in some way. Obviously something like this wasn't wort to point out because maybe in the end I might end up liking his character more than what I liked Tobirama today.
@shadow_Uzumaki I just wanted to lighten the mood.
@zacrathedemon5 You haven't seeing me complimenting this story, so that should tell you a long time ago that I'm just a regular fan and not a lover of this Manga, anyhow that's OK we are cool. At lease we don't pretend that something is perfect when it isn't. Even when I believe is just a manga with a (don't want to mention) writer.
Yes, I wanted someone to die from the K11. But not Neji, Shikamaru, or anyone in there that was given a lot of development. We needed them. I thought that was self-explanatory. I guess I should've explained that part? Someone like Tenten isn't developed, but she's still deemed important because she's in the K11. That's the kind of important I always talked about.
I'm not trying to jump into this but gosh I laughed at that part. I feel the exact opposite the way you do: Tenten's death probably wouldn't have made that big of a deal BECAUSE she lacks development -if she got barely any in the first place. It's the people that have some development whose death would make as big as an impact as possible without there being too much...mishaps for the future? What I mean by that is, using Neji as an example, this goes back to the whole main branch of the Hyuuga thing, and I guess it would do well for Hinata's character if she takes on a leadership role in her clan later on (yes, yes I know it's horrible that Neji literally had to die for this, but he's dead so...oh well. Nothing can be done about that now...).
The one character I do agree with you that shouldn't die is Shikamaru. Who's going to be Naruto's right hand man, then?
Obito/Madara was talking about the Will of Fire but in the 3rd panel he said," I can see the First hokage in you". At the time when 462 chapter came out I thought well it's not their looks, it's not their fighting style so it has to be their personalities. Madara knew the First, his serious side and his relaxed side; they created Konoha so they knew each other very well.
I got the feeling from the above panel that Naruto and Hashirama were alike but I couldn't imagined it well until today.
Yes, I wanted someone to die from the K11. But not Neji, Shikamaru, or anyone in there that was given a lot of development. We needed them. I thought that was self-explanatory. I guess I should've explained that part? Someone like Tenten isn't developed, but she's still deemed important because she's in the K11. That's the kind of important I always talked about.
Well, it's not your manga. It's not written with your specifications in mind. As I said, if Ten-ten died, how much impact would it create? Hardly any. "We needed them" to do what? What was Neji gonna do? In fact, as I said Neji was supposed to die much earlier in the manga, but because the fans liked him so much Kishi kept him alive for this long. So what other importance could have Neji played. Be the leader of the Hyuga? He seemed to not care about that anymore and even Neji was okay with it cause he chose to die by this. He could have just stepped back and let Hinata take the hit. Naruto, we all know, would have been fine. He's been through worse.
Ten-Ten's death would not have made Naruto understand lose. If it did, I would be against you saying "Why isn't he upset when other ninja have died? Even if they are red shirts." Ten-Ten has not made that much of an impact to the story.It is a sad truth, but it is true none the less.
See you didn't want any of your favorite characters to die. It's not a matter of importance. Look at how much impact Neji made? Ten-ten's death would not have made that much impact and you know this. You know Ten-ten has very little impact on the story itself. I don't even remember her talking to Naruto directly at all. See why her death means nothing? Neji was a good candidate because of how much of an impact he made on Naruto.
Even if Ten-Ten died and Naruto had this big reaction over her, I guarantee you people would still complain saying that Naruto hardly knew her and that his reaction is forced. We also have Hinata there for little to no reason at all even more and we would call even more BS on that and the NH fans would celebrate even louder.
So no matter what, no one was going to be happy no matter who died. Might as well just let Kishimoto write his manga.
I mean it seems like every chapter there is something wrong that people don't like and it's getting worse and worse till the end. Sure I have my own gripes, but so far the only chapter that really urks me is 615-616. And even then, it wasn't because of Neji's death, but the forced character points.
QUOTE
My change of heart about Obito... I don't see why that is relevant here. I still like Obito because he was actually done well enough to persuade me that it made sense. What's happening in this chapter, though, just baffles.
Yeah, but you never knew it at first and you ranted up a storm. The relevance here is that you never know what you like until it unfolds. There are things you absolutely hated and yet learned to love it because it was cool in retrospect. I don't see what the problem is here with the First being a goofball. Why is this so bad? Give me one good reason and I mean a good one.
I like the fact that he is this goofball because it shows how not only is he much different than Madara, but also because it makes people underestimate him. We also show how the goofballs are the ones who don't take life so seriously all the time compared to the Uchiha who are always serious, can't take life easy, and believe that love is a weakness. You see why the goofballs win because they care about life, but live it the way it is. Find good in bad instead of trying to change the world to be good in their opinion.
QUOTE
Why would the First feel relaxed here? He's still dead and being brought back to life, by the person who brought him back last time no less. Why would he feel relaxed here? Why would any of them? They're still being brought back to life by a forbidden jutsu, and Hashirama's silliness exposed itself after he learned the same guy that brought him back last time to fight his old comrade brought him back again. If anything, he should be just as serious as he was the last time, if not more.
*sighs and points*
Edited by James S Cassidy, 06 February 2013 - 03:34 AM.
This chapter basically says that "Uchiha are emo." We used to joke about it, but this chapter literally says "The Uchiha are an emo clan." They are hyper sensitive to emotions especially negative ones? It's not even an individual basis, but rather an almost "genetic" reason why the Uchiha are the way they are. Does this excuse all the actions all the bad Uchiha have done? And how does this explain all the good ones and why they didn't turn?
In most countries, a murder's sentence is usually drastically reduced if the said murder can be proven to be insane.
And herein lies the biggest problem with this chapter: it exonerates Sasuke and all the Uchiha of their guilt.
It makes sense, don't get me wrong, I understand it quite well. What I don't understand is if this was known all this time, why not do something about it? Give them therapy or something. Drugs maybe? Some anti-depressants or something could work. There has to have been something, but all anyone ever did was try to cover up the problem rather than trying to solve it.
All he needed was a bottle of Prozac. That would be the biggest disappointment ever. >_> I'm guessing now it is Naruto's mission to prove to Sasuke that he hasn't lost all of his loved ones.
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