255 replies to this topic

[Paptala]

What Kishi has been doing with his villains is not surprising at all. He said very clearly in one of his old interviews that he wanted to depict both side's point of views. In real life, yeah, there are some people who are just messed up in the head and are twisted and want to destroy everything for pretty much no reason. But I think those kinds of people are honestly very rare.

More often, even the sickest most evil seeming people have some reason, no matter how insignificant, for becoming the way they are today. Like kids killing off their step siblings because they were neglected, or a young woman helping to abuse and kill another woman because she loves her boyfriend. People don't always need big reasons, or even reasons that make sense to do the screwed up things that they do. The point is, that they almost always HAVE a reason.

Orochimaru hasn't been redeemed, and I doubt he is ever going to be - despite his backstory about doing what he did because his parents died. Orochimaru moved past that.

Danzo was never redeemed, even if he wasn't evil in the truest sense.

Hidan, Kakuzu, Deidara, Zetsu, Sasori, Kisame - none of them were ever redeemed, despite their respective backstories - they died ('cept Zetsu) evil, unchanging in their views and beliefs. Neither has Kabuto been redeemed, despite his backstory - he's just stuck in Itachi's genjutsu still.

So did the Sound 3 and Sound 4.

On the other hand, Kurama, Konan, and Nagato have been redeemed (plus Gaara and Neji, but they were never really villains, imo), and Sasuke redemption is inevitable as well. Itachi was never redeemed, as he was good to begin with.

So Tobi being redeemed wouldn't surprise me, or disappoint me, at all - he's far too much like Nagato. I do believe that he's going to die in the process though, perhaps saving Kakashi.

I think Madara would make a perfect final villain for the characters to face off against - sure, he hasn't been alive long, but he was introduced into the story a long while back, and he seems truly uncaring, unhesitating, unrepentant. He may be the one with no sad back story - perhaps he is just the one that wants to see the world destroyed - not saved like Tobi in his twisted way. Especially if Madara manipulated or twisted Tobi's thinking to begin with.

If people want to be frustrated with the status quo of the villains and the whole redemption thing, than that's fine and I respect their opinions. I just don't see what the big deal is myself personally.

Edited by Paptala, 07 September 2012 - 09:31 PM.

[Nick Soapdish]

I'd argue that Sasori was redeemed at the very end. I was under the impression that he didn't dodge (or at least didn't put everything into dodging) the last attack and that he finally seemed to find some peace with that. But it's setting a fairly low bar for redemption.

[Paptala]

^True, I guess you could make that argument. But at least he wasn't redeemed by Naruto's Talk-no-Jutsu, but by Sakura and Chiyo

Edited by Paptala, 07 September 2012 - 09:39 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

^True, I guess you could make that argument. But at least he wasn't redeemed by Naruto's Talk-no-Jutsu, but by Sakura and Chiyo

he ws redeemed by kankuro, because kabuto wasnt controlling him, kabuto let him at free will, kankurou bring some senses to him, saying that he should be a top-level pupeteer instead of becoming the puppet.

sasori let they kill him because he was unable to achieve what he wanted to do because despite becoming into a puppet he was still human.

Edited by dovahkiin, 07 September 2012 - 09:57 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

don't worry i knew what you meant . we see villains in the manga from different types but all have mostly the same goal that they want to achieve but sasuke isn't a villain, he's a wanderer for revenge and not seeking to be enemy for anyone only attacks if someone get on his way of revenge. kishi doesn't want from sasuke to be a villain, he has his own special role.
saying that sasuke has got his revenge on the village, he won't search for love as searching to love someone and i'm sure he won't kill himself. he'll be a wanderer forever like he's already doing since he "killed" orochimaru or revive his clan with the one he loves or not and establish somewhere, well i think we have to let for kishi to tell us, although he won't fulfill his revenge, that why he has his own special role as being all about taking revenge and without it is like you said that he's just a cardboard cut out.

And that's lame. I think that's even lamer than Obito doing what he does because Rin died simply because Sasuke's has no purpose beyond revenge and redemption. It's sad to see a character reduced to such a thing.

Sasuke can never be the villain and he can never be the good guy either. He is just...there. I wouldn't mind seeing him as an anti-hero, but he isn't moral set to be such a character. I wish he was more like Vegeta, being that anti-hero who wants power just so he can be the pride of his clan. That at least would make sense on why he is on-again off-again villain, but no, it is all about revenge. Revenge against his brother, then revenge his clan. Sasuke could have had o much potential, but he is reduced to being only a subject to Naruto's morals. I am wondering if Naruto's satelliting Sasuke is only a red herring for the real one with Sasuke satelliting Naruto.

Guess I am just disappointed that Sasuke could have really been something, but Kishi doesn't want to rock the boat and make him a full-blown villain.

Also, since he is never the villain, what is there to redeem? Why does Kishi make him do bad things if he is not supposed to be the villain? Why did he make Sasuke literally a polar opposite to Naruto if this wasn't the case? Thinking like this more and more just diminishes Sasuke's character.

I really thought about this and I have to ask what does Sasuke have to be redeemed from? Some people say that Sasuke never did anything bad and he is not a villain...Okay, so why does he need redemption? Redemption implies that you had a past of being a bad person and you want to be good again. You want to make up for all the bad stuff you did and willing to prove. Not only does Sasuke not want to redeem himself, but according to what some believe he has done nothing bad. And since he hasn't really done anything to be considered a villain, how can he be redeemed?

So maybe redemption is the wrong word to use in Sasuke's case, perhaps it would be better to say "change his ways"

[Paptala]

he ws redeemed by kankuro, because kabuto wasnt controlling him, kabuto let him at free will, kankurou bring some senses to him, saying that he should be a top-level pupeteer instead of becoming the puppet.

sasori let they kill him because he was unable to achieve what he wanted to do because despite becoming into a puppet he was still human.

Well, either way, its still not by Naruto's TnJ this forum lacks the emoticons i need to properly express myself

[T XD]

And that's lame. I think that's even lamer than Obito doing what he does because Rin died simply because Sasuke's has no purpose beyond revenge and redemption. It's sad to see a character reduced to such a thing.

Sasuke can never be the villain and he can never be the good guy either. He is just...there. I wouldn't mind seeing him as an anti-hero, but he isn't moral set to be such a character. I wish he was more like Vegeta, being that anti-hero who wants power just so he can be the pride of his clan. That at least would make sense on why he is on-again off-again villain, but no, it is all about revenge. Revenge against his brother, then revenge his clan. Sasuke could have had o much potential, but he is reduced to being only a subject to Naruto's morals. I am wondering if Naruto's satelliting Sasuke is only a red herring for the real one with Sasuke satelliting Naruto.

Guess I am just disappointed that Sasuke could have really been something, but Kishi doesn't want to rock the boat and make him a full-blown villain.

Also, since he is never the villain, what is there to redeem? Why does Kishi make him do bad things if he is not supposed to be the villain? Why did he make Sasuke literally a polar opposite to Naruto if this wasn't the case? Thinking like this more and more just diminishes Sasuke's character.

I really thought about this and I have to ask what does Sasuke have to be redeemed from? Some people say that Sasuke never did anything bad and he is not a villain...Okay, so why does he need redemption? Redemption implies that you had a past of being a bad person and you want to be good again. You want to make up for all the bad stuff you did and willing to prove. Not only does Sasuke not want to redeem himself, but according to what some believe he has done nothing bad. And since he hasn't really done anything to be considered a villain, how can he be redeemed?

So maybe redemption is the wrong word to use in Sasuke's case, perhaps it would be better to say "change his ways"

you have a point,sasuke should be more than what he is now but kishi simply want from sasuke to be a simple human being who took the wrong path till he sees the wrongs that he has done in the end either when he dies, which i truly don't want that, or when fighting something happened and it's kishi idea's for the rest of it if he chose this option. he was a brother to others, a friend to others in his village till one day, he left for wrong reasons and became a dark person and that's all there is to it. we should remember that it's a manga that a writer came up with ideas for his characters personalities and their achievements and not a real life footage.
if he'll be redeemed, than his redemption will be from the killings he has committed and his revenge on the village, simply that and nothing more and his redemption will be like that he's been forgiven in sometime when he fights naruto for example, that something kishi has to tell us the situation that he's in it if he'll be redeemed. redemption for someone it means in the end that he/she has changed his ways for the good, it's the meaning of redemption so we can say either of the two

Edited by T XD, 08 September 2012 - 01:25 PM.

[Nefertieh]

If all of the villains in the series were evil and Naruto was the buff hero who has no other role than to kill them all, then there would be pretty much no point in the manga. In the end the winner is the one with the bigger guns. How would it make the hero any better than his enemies?

One of the main themes of the manga is all about empathy and understanding people. Jiraiya didn't die so that Naruto would become an avenger. In fact, it is because Naruto can look past all that that separates him from Sasuke.

I highly doubt Kishi wanted to kill off Kakashi, half of Konoha and Hinata in the Pein arc. He himself said he would give Kakashi another story arc (the current arc by the looks of it), and Tenten commented on how Hinata's wounds weren't fatal. Kishimoto has enough royalties to last him several lifetimes by now, he doesn't need to change his story just to increase his readership.

[candycane-chan]

you have a point,sasuke should be more than what he is now but kishi simply want from sasuke to be a simple human being who took the wrong path till he sees the wrongs that he has done in the end either when he dies, which i truly don't want that, or when fighting something happened and it's kishi idea's for the rest of it if he chose this option. he was a brother to others, a friend to others in his village till one day, he left for wrong reasons and became a dark person and that's all there is to it.
if he'll be redeemed, than his redemption will be from the killings he has committed and his revenge on the village, simply that and there's nothing more and his redemption will be like that he's been forgiven in sometime when he fights naruto for example, that something kishi has to tell us the situation that he's in it if he'll be redeemed. redemption for someone it means in the end that he/she has changed his ways for the good, it's the meaning of redemption so we can say either of the two

I think sasuke has too much pride to ask for forgiveness and without that how could anybody forgive him .....maybe there's another secret about the clan that will be revealed , really what is sasuke searching for right now ? i think it'll be a while to see him again since now its "obito" and madara and honestly i would like it like that.if kishi turns back to him befor resolving the obito thing i dont know what i'll do

[T XD]

I think sasuke has too much pride to ask for forgiveness and without that how could anybody forgive him .....maybe there's another secret about the clan that will be revealed , really what is sasuke searching for right now ? i think it'll be a while to see him again since now its "obito" and madara and honestly i would like it like that.if kishi turns back to him befor resolving the obito thing i dont know what i'll do

That, my friend, you'll have to wait for future chapters to enlighten us about what exactly he's searching for. But as a whole, he wants to know more about his clan and the conversation that occurred that has led his clan to vanish, he'll discover things he didn't know of for sure and i think his search is also to find out more about the scroll that suigetsu and jugo found.

[TouKen4Life3g]

That, my friend, you'll have to wait for future chapters to enlighten us about what exactly he's searching for. But as a whole, he wants to know more about his clan and the conversation that occurred that has led his clan to vanish, he'll discover things he didn't know of for sure and i think his search is also to find out more about the scroll that suigetsu and jugo found.

He is on the search to find the meaning of life of the ninja world. Something tells me he will go bad once more with the ideal to change everything by ending it, much like Obito with the genjutsu world. But anyway, I do think he might learn from the beginning (Six Paths) to now, which could be very interesting because I do believe the Uzumaki clan will be brought up in here. For now, let's see how this current arc ends, shall we?

[T XD]

He is on the search to find the meaning of life of the ninja world. Something tells me he will go bad once more with the ideal to change everything by ending it, much like Obito with the genjutsu world. But anyway, I do think he might learn from the beginning (Six Paths) to now, which could be very interesting because I do believe the Uzumaki clan will be brought up in here. For now, let's see how this current arc ends, shall we?

Yea but his clan will be brought up too and the conversation that destroyed his clan, everything that is related and happened with him which the ninja world is among them cause he wants to know almost about everything from these. He'll be back in the past and witness in his own eyes.

Edited by T XD, 08 September 2012 - 03:10 PM.

[candycane-chan]

That, my friend, you'll have to wait for future chapters to enlighten us about what exactly he's searching for. But as a whole, he wants to know more about his clan and the conversation that occurred that has led his clan to vanish, he'll discover things he didn't know of for sure and i think his search is also to find out more about the scroll that suigetsu and jugo found.

He is on the search to find the meaning of life of the ninja world. Something tells me he will go bad once more with the ideal to change everything by ending it, much like Obito with the genjutsu world. But anyway, I do think he might learn from the beginning (Six Paths) to now, which could be very interesting because I do believe the Uzumaki clan will be brought up in here. For now, let's see how this current arc ends, shall we?

if he goes psycho again then i doubt he would be redeamed, yupp we'll just have to wait( all we do is wait ) but since kishi makes the criminals redeamable i mean all of them just regret everything they did and you know the rest on the bright side we'll find more about obito and where the hell is the alliance

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yea but his clan will be brought up too and the conversation that destroyed his clan, everything that is related and happened with him which the ninja world is among them cause he wants to know almost about everything from these. He'll be back in the past and witness in his own eyes.

Of course. Everything will be brought up. He's going to end up bad again. I mean we need him to fight Naruto one last time and it's a perfect setup for them to fight as one believes what's right and what's easy. I do wonder how it will all go down. Something tells me that Madara will live to the finale. I don't know yet, but we just have wait and see. I wonder why Madara just wants Kyuubi. The man wants his pet back I guess.

[T XD]

Of course. Everything will be brought up. He's going to end up bad again. I mean we need him to fight Naruto one last time and it's a perfect setup for them to fight as one believes what's right and what's easy. I do wonder how it will all go down. Something tells me that Madara will live to the finale. I don't know yet, but we just have wait and see. I wonder why Madara just wants Kyuubi. The man wants his pet back I guess.

The villain with his petting fox , that's a good one.

[Dreamer]

Poor Yamato already forgotten.

[Transformers03]

Poor Yamato already forgotten.

Who?

[candycane-chan]

Poor Yamato already forgotten.

yamato who...oh right that almost forgot about him since you mentioned yamato i never got what exactly he's doing i meen are we sure he's still alive

[Dreamer]

yamato who...oh right that almost forgot about him since you mentioned yamato i never got what exactly he's doing i meen are we sure he's still alive

He's currently fueling the Zetsu clones --Click here to view--

He would be a big help right now against Madara.

[merryGOflava]

Poor Yamato already forgotten.

omg...i almost (i did) forgot

......sooooooooo who do you think is gonna save him first?

the answer is......the first person that remember him!!