I know you didn't say she was strong, which is why I said no amount of training would change my opinion of her, since you said she has the potential. Are you pointing out Sakura learning to understand people as a bad thing or not? You are right, Hinata is a kind & caring person. But I don't think that translates over to the submissiveness in the appearance of Neji.
She held her tongue back because she was scared of Neji and had every reason to be so. He verbally and physically abused her. Sure, she worshiped Neji after their little conflict was over, but I never saw any worshiping of her father, but more like not wanting to be labeled a failure in his eyes. The traits that Neji described Hinata having were true and she agreed with him. She does things out of her limit to try to change herself even if it is impossible for her.
I might have overdone it by saying she worships him, but what I'm trying to say is that it's just not in her character to hate anyone. Ever. She's always forgiving, no matter who it is, and what they've done to her before. But that being part of her character makes her weak and even submissive. It's part of who she is. But what's intriguing about her is how she always stands by her morals. You could say that she "stole" that nindo from Naruto, but imo it's always been inside of her, because that's just the kind of person she is.
That panel you showed me, proves that you can infer that it's part of her character. She's a background character - we don't see how far her care for people ranges. But we do see a lot of Naruto don't we? The thing is, Hinata's purpose in life wasn't to be in a relationship with him, it was to improve herself, and show people that she was worthy (like Naruto - which is why she admired him so much). What makes her different from Sakura is that, while Sakura's moving on from the guy she barely knew, Hinata's falling more in love with the guy she barely knows.
Not saying that it's in Hinata's character to hold resentment, but Hinata can't hold any resentment because she's oblivious to Naruto's love life. Their conversation's and interactions are short and kept within a coach and student type bond. Nothing more nothing less.
She's not oblivious to Naruto's love life. She knows fully well that Naruto has a crush on Sakura (if Naruto can't make it anymore clearer to the whole entire world). Despite knowing this, she never hated Sakura (despite Sakura being the only girl that hangs out with him the most). Like I said before, she only feels sadness. She's never once found herself holding resentment for anyone, and wouldn't start to feel resentment anyways. Like you said, it goes against her character.
But even though Hinata holds a strong crush on Naruto, she needs to start thinking about Naruto as a person (like she used to) rather than an object of affection (like she's doing now).
I can't entirely agree with this. Hinata is selfless no doubt, but that selflessness only comes out when it pertains to Naruto. Sakura's selflessness is expanded beyond just Naruto. That's is the difference. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the part of Hinata being a rational thinker.
What? Hinata's selflessness does not only pertain to Naruto. The whole point of being a selfless person, is about feeling for everyone, and not thinking about herself all the time. You're telling me she doesn't have selfless care when it comes to Kiba? Shino? Kurenai? Neji? Heck, even all of rookie 9? How can you even imply that? True, Sakura's selflessness expands beyond Naruto, but it wasn't always like that. She had to really get to know her comrades, before finally accepting them. Hinata's just naturally accepting of everyone. You know how Sakura didn't like Lee? Now she likes him, because she's seen how loyal he can be. She didn't like a lot of people, she had to learn to love them.
You're right. She jumped in front of Pein because of Naruto. But where's the evaluation of the situation? Where's the actual rescue attempt? All I see was a girl who wanted to confess to Naruto before he has his ass dragged outta Konoha. There were more panels dedicated to her speech than there was for an actual rescue attempt. She knew Pein was no match for her yet she charged in head first after her confession was done. It was just a sacrifice, and it wouldn't be the first time she turned herself into some sacrificial lamb. The war arc comes to mind. They've all risked their life's for each other, but last I checked hundreds of lives weren't in jeopardy when they did it. Only Hinata. I may hate Hinata, but I'm not some brain dead hater who labels her love as not being real. It is real, no matter how selfishly we view it.
You're absolutely right. It was selfish of her. She even said so herself. She knew what she was doing was selfish, and harmful to her and others - but she was desperate and she panicked, like any normal person who witnisses their love being crushed by the Akatsuki leader. She knew she was no match for him, but she went up to him and at least tried to protect him. She didn't do it to confess, she confessed because she knew she was probably gonna die. It was probably one of the worse choices she made - because that's what love does to you, it makes you do risky things.
Just try and think of Sakura - what about all those times when she did the craziest things for the ones she loves? This includes Sasuke and possibly Naruto. You're right, what Hinata did caused many people to be in danger, but it doesn't change the fact that the situation was risky. If Sakura wasn't thinking something through and did it, it doesn't matter how many people she affects, because she wouldn't be thinking straight. Same goes for Hinata. When it comes to Naruto, Hinata doesn't think straight. You can't honestly tell me, that when it comes to Sasuke, Sakura thinks straight cause she doesn't.
Hinata's purpose in life isn't to be in a relationship with Naruto? Well you could have fooled me. The entirety of her character is about Naruto and Naruto alone. Coupled with the fact that her dream is shown being together romantically on a bench with Naruto, I don't feel wrong in thinking that's the only thing she wants in life. And I agree with Sakura and Hinata's reasoning for falling in love.
Hinata's morals have changed throughout the series. She's slowly become a one track minded person, that revolves around Naruto. At this point, she does want to pursue a relationship with Naruto. But what she doesn't understand is that she really doesn't understand Naruto, as much as she wishes she did. I have a feeling that once she gets the chance to interact with Naruto as a person, with Naruto knowing full well about her feelings for him, that confidence she had during the war will probably slowly slip out. Because she can't act like herself around him, even if she tried. She's never really talked to him directly as people who've known each other for a long time, because they've never had that sort of close relationship.
I think Hinata needs to wake up, and realize where her morals really lie - and they're not with Naruto, because I don't really see why she would deserve Naruto's love, because she was never really there for him. But her love for Naruto doesn't change her character, it strengthens it, even though she does dumb, risky, things around him. So yes, Hinata's character does revolve around Naruto at this point, unfortunately. In fact, hat's how it was with Sakura to Sasuke, for a long, long, time.
Hinata naturally cares about everyone? Where is this mother Theresa you speak of? Sure, you can say that she naturally cares about everyone, but all that care is being poured in Naruto's direction. Her character overall is completely coated with Naruto. There is no room for her to understand anyone else, and she barely understands Naruto. I guess well just have to agree to disagree once again on the part of Hinata thinking things through.
Again what? Are you saying she doesn't naturally care about everyone? Every part of her character implies that she cares about everyone she knows, and loves them all equally. She never gives anyone special treatment, she treats everyone the same. The reason why she can't be normal around Naruto in general, is because she has a reeally crazy crush on him. But I would never say that ALL her love and care goes directly to Naruto. She's not around Naruto all the time, she has so many other people to care about. We don't see her all the time, but you can instantly tell this is a part of her character, from the very first moment she was introduced. How can you say there's no room for her to understand anyone, when that's the whole point of her crush on Naruto - to understand him, to feel for his pain. If you can't possibly infer this, then there's no point in arguing about this at all...
Like I said, Sakura has made mistakes, but I can't think of one single panel where she potentially put the lives of others at risk unintentionally. Believe it or not but Sakura has been shown to be much more caring than Hinata is. Chiyo, Tsunade, Konoha citizens, land of waves homeless kid, Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi and so much more. Her care throughout the series isn't just limited to one person.
Hinata never had any intentions of putting anyone at risk. Sakura wouldn't either. But no matter what mistakes they made, or who it could possibly have an affect on, doesn't make what they did any less riskier, and/or selfish. Sakura has been shown to be a very caring person. But just because we don't see Hinata being caring, doesn't mean she isn't. Sakura wasn't always the caring and nice goody-good person she is now (particularly in Part 2 and near the end of Part 1 she started changing her ways). She had to develop as a person, and learn from her mistakes. Hinata was always a naturally kind and caring person since the very beginning. She didn't need the development, because she was already like that. What I'd recommend she develop, is probably to be more confident in herself, and try to not think about Naruto all the time (which she's been doing a lot).
We can see that Sakura's care is not limited to one person, but you can't assume that Hinata's caring side is only limited to one person either, because she's not the type of person to do that.
I don't think they're equal at all in terms of being selfish or selfless. Agree to disagree I guess.
The reason I think this is because while Sakura's becoming more and more selfless in her character, Hinata is becoming more and more selfish when it comes to Naruto. To me, it kind of looks like it evened out in a way. Sakura and Hinata are very different characters, but they are also starting to be alike in where their morals lie, and possibly in who they love (Naruto).
Edited by Iwantbuns, 16 June 2014 - 12:48 AM.