54214 replies to this topic

[Sakura~]

I'm somewhat with @luffy. If Kishi can't give Sakura respect, I won't be back until the last chapter, just to see the ending.

 

However, I hold on to hope, that she will get a real shining moment, cause I wanna be optimistic.

You can count me in.

[James S Cassidy]

It's Pepsi's birthday? Holy crap, Have a good one man.

 

It's a little disturbing to see you guys all here discouraged , but yeah is easily despair because is Kishimoto fault develops all so painfully slow, but is it very interesting things happening ...

(Cut it short to save space....,but I read it.)

That is just my opinion, I think we have to wait, be patient, it is not the first time that some are disappointed by the slowness of the manga,with Kishi everything is slow.

I agree with JILL here. This is kind of needed if you think about it. We need to kill off SS in order to move on forward. I know some people are like "we knew this already. Why do we need to rehash it."  We know it, of course, but look at all the other fans. They are still in denial even after all this stuff was happening. I think this is great because it gives us more evidence to show that SS is dead. Yeah, I know it is long overdue and it's slow, but I rather have this happening now and not just in the middle of the Naruto vs Sauske fight. I know Sakura will show her true feelings for Naruto then and we will get the most romantic moment ever.

The story is slow, but this isn't the first manga to be just like this despite the obvious. Many harem are the same way when it comes to this. The couple doesn't get together until the end even when it has become painfully obvious even to the other characters themselves.

I don't really think this makes Sakura look bad. In fact, it just makes her the most human out of anyone. At least she is aware that and not delusional like some of the other characters are. I am sure if you compared Sakura and Karin right now, Sakura's development looks a whole lot better.

It's grueling and painful, but might as well get it done now and let the res the nothing, but good news for us.
 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 June 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[Sakura~]

If they can't do anything, then Kishi should not have had them in the susanoo shield. He has only been ruining Sakura's character and if there is no good reason, then I'm next to done. I try to hope and I will continue, until the Kaguya fight is over. But, if Sakura doesn't play a role, I will not be back for a while.

 

I've been cutting him slack, but the only time he makes Sakura somewhat shine, is when it comes to healing. However, her combat skills always make her look weak or unimportant. When she first got her seal, she got saved, then was reduced to healing. After she healed Naruto, Kishi made her freeze or whatever at stabbing Obito's eye, which only garnered haters. She charged Madara, then needed rescuing. So far Sakura has only gotten saved, when it comes to combat. Do you see why people are fed up with his portrayal of Sakura? He always has Naruto, Sasuke, and now even Kakashi saving her, while she's the apprentice of a legendary sannin and the strongest kunoichi atm( Kaguya does not count.), but so far that has meant nothing, cause she's still made out to be a damsel in distress, like part one.

 

If Kishi does not give her serious growth in her fighting department, then I'm sorry, but he fails. It can not be that hard to show some respect and dedication to the heroine of the story. NO. Make up all the excuses you want Kishi, but that's just Bullsh*t. His handling of Sakura has hand ups and downs, but when it goes down, it goes way down. While, when it goes up, it's easy  to get overlooked.

 

Like I said, I'll be patient for now, but if this Sakura bashing continues for the next five chapters, like the previous ones, I'm done for a long time.

I agree with everything you've said, specially this part.He hasn't tried enough to make her ups surpass her downs yet he constantly has her there just so she could look useless just to give haters more of a reason to drag her even lower then they already do.

 

@Pepsi happy birthday! have a nice one ^.^

Edited by Sakura~, 13 June 2014 - 11:55 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

Can't do that Pepsi. Maybe if Kishi hadn't screwed up his writing. For the entirety of the manga Sakura has had two main plot points tied to her character; pairing drama and her desire to catch up to Naruto and Sasuke. She was hailed as having more potential than Tsunade, has stated repeatedly that she will catch up to them, and has even stated that she has caught up to them in recent chapters. But now Kishi writes her so that she is completely useless against Kaguya compared to the new powers that Sasuke and Naruto have and only gives her a small moment of brilliance before relegating her back to the background again. That's piss poor writing. It's like hyping up a big championship game between two teams but then the game turns out to be a blowout or better yet, gets completely canceled. Its far too anti climatic when you've promised this awesome down to the wire game, or in Sakura's case the moment where she shows that she is truly on their level.

 

I still find this funny how no one really applies this to say other characters either who were said to be legendary.

Remember when the 4 Hokage were said to be really powerful? Now look at them. They were taken out like nothing when Madara showed up. Madara has made a mockery of all the characters that were said to be super powerful. All the Kage and the 4 Hokages were said to be these powerful people capable of amazing feats and they were just beaten so easily like they were nothing.

Sasuke himself even got this treatment if you think about. Orochimaru said he was as powerful as Madara and yet his track record is pathetic. Lost to Itachi, Killer Bee, and some contenders with some only winning due to a technicality. He got stabbed by his own sword by Madara and died. He is said to be a master strategist and yet all of his plans have sucked and even backfired.

Kaguya is even making Naruto's and Sasuke's powers look like nothing. Actually, she even made Madara look like a chump as well.

It's what I call the "Dragonball Z syndrome." No matter how legendary someone maybe, there is always someone stronger that trumps them easily. Look at Frieza who was feared to be the most powerful being in the universe and was a huge threat. What happens? He gets trumped by an artificial beings created by Dr. Gero that can take out Frieza easily. Who needs Saiyans? Imagine if Dr. Gero was a good guy and created the Androids to fight Frieza.

Sakura isn't the only one Kishi hyped up only to be knocked down.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 June 2014 - 12:24 PM.

[FireFox]

It's Pepsi's birthday? Holy crap, Have a good one man.

 

I agree with JILL here. This is kind of needed if you think about it. We need to kill off SS in order to move on forward. I know some people are like "we knew this already. Why do we need to rehash it."  We know it, of course, but look at all the other fans. They are still in denial even after all this stuff was happening. I think this is great because it gives us more evidence to show that SS is dead. Yeah, I know it is long overdue and it's slow, but I rather have this happening now and not just in the middle of the Naruto vs Sauske fight. I know Sakura will show her true feelings for Naruto then and we will get the most romantic moment ever.

The story is slow, but this isn't the first manga to be just like this despite the obvious. Many harem are the same way when it comes to this. The couple doesn't get together until the end even when it has become painfully obvious even to the other characters themselves.

I don't really think this makes Sakura look bad. In fact, it just makes her the most human out of anyone. At least she is aware that and not delusional like some of the other characters are. I am sure if you compared Sakura and Karin right now, Sakura's development looks a whole lot better.

It's grueling and painful, but might as well get it done now and let the res the nothing, but good news for us.

You know this reminds me of a saying "in order to rise up you first need to be brought down " or something like that i  see Kishi doing it right now with Sakura  well he did that also with Naruto he was brought down by both Pain and Obito and then he raised up its just the build up is to slow for it so i can understand people being pissed but just because its slow doesn't mean its not gonna happen and this is what's confusing people in here and makes them give up hope  but like i say good tings comes to those who are patient  . 

[TouKen4Life3g]

It's Pepsi's birthday? Holy crap, Have a good one man.

 
I agree with JILL here. This is kind of needed if you think about it. We need to kill off SS in order to move on forward. I know some people are like "we knew this already. Why do we need to rehash it."  We know it, of course, but look at all the other fans. They are still in denial even after all this stuff was happening. I think this is great because it gives us more evidence to show that SS is dead. Yeah, I know it is long overdue and it's slow, but I rather have this happening now and not just in the middle of the Naruto vs Sauske fight. I know Sakura will show her true feelings for Naruto then and we will get the most romantic moment ever.

The story is slow, but this isn't the first manga to be just like this despite the obvious. Many harem are the same way when it comes to this. The couple doesn't get together until the end even when it has become painfully obvious even to the other characters themselves.

I don't really think this makes Sakura look bad. In fact, it just makes her the most human out of anyone. At least she is aware that and not delusional like some of the other characters are. I am sure if you compared Sakura and Karin right now, Sakura's development looks a whole lot better.

It's grueling and painful, but might as well get it done now and let the res the nothing, but good news for us.
 

Well, Sakura is a main character so her developments will stand out a lot. Other than that, yes, I can understand. It's like I said in characters, it's not "dead". To us, it is. It's like if we did see Obito's face before the reveal, but you see them fighting him with mask on and keep asking who is he, you can't really yell at them and say it's Obito dammit. It's not that they're dumb, it's more like we got more views than they can. That said we just got the result of this whole team and wake up to Naruto that Sasuke did all this because of coincidence and need Naruto to win the war. Annoying that we have to see it, but for story sake, it has to be done.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I still find this funny how no one really applies this to say other characters either who were said to be legendary.

Tsunade is the weakest of the kages ever i even think Mizukage is stronger than her really.
 

Remember when the 4 Hokage were said to be really powerful? Now look at them. They were taken out like nothing when Madara showed up. Madara has made a mockery of all the characters that were said to be super powerful. All the Kage and the 4 Hokages were said to be these powerful people capable of amazing feats and they were just beaten so easily like they were nothing.

They are Edo Tensei.
You might bring up Madara but his body was modified so i dont think it counts.
 

Sasuke himself even got this treatment if you think about. Orochimaru said he was as powerful as Madara and yet his track record is pathetic. Lost to Itachi, Killer Bee, and some contenders with some only winning due to a technicality. He got stabbed by his own sword by Madara and died. He is said to be a master strategist and yet all of his plans have sucked and even backfired.

Depends on what Madara you're talking about, the one who got the 6 paths or before that?
Madara's track record is pitfull too, he lost all his battles against Hashirama, and he was strong.
I think that Sasuke without rinnegan and Indra's power he's even with Madara who lose to Hashirama.

About strategies, Madara is asspuling, Naruto asspuling and Sasuke asspulling, you cant predict nothing neither create a plan.
Sasuke died when he tried to stab Madara, but Madara stopped gravity itself.
Naruto and Gaara managed to seal him but he got revived on the last second, then later he uses a single jutsu and removes Kyuubi from premises in a matter of seconds when Akatsuki used to take three days with the (It takes a lot of resources and chakra to seal a bijuu) yeah all this went to space.
 

Kaguya is even making Naruto's and Sasuke's powers look like nothing. Actually, she even made Madara look like a chump as well.

They have plenty to asspull yet, Naruto learned how to float on this chapter.
 

Sakura isn't the only one Kishi hyped up only to be knocked down.

You mean Lee - who hasnt fought.
Raikage - who lost to Sasuke.
Kabuto - who lose pathetically with Itachi's asspull and his jutsu that doesnt make sense. ( srsly why the hell would you sacrifice your eye to make someome good again?)

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 13 June 2014 - 12:36 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

You know, I got to give Naruto a credit because I remember someone said he/she will get mad if he saves Sasuke first and then think others later. Here, not only he wants others to get rescued, but he put them over himself. Just for the record, he didn't know he can float until he got highly motivated to save them. Why you think Naruto was like "Huh?" then happy because he's happy that he has it to save them all. After all, if RS can, why not, just a matter of who has it. That's all I want to say.

[FireFox]

You know, I got to give Naruto a credit because I remember someone said he/she will get mad if he saves Sasuke first and then think others later. Here, not only he wants others to get rescued, but he put them over himself. Just for the record, he didn't know he can float until he got highly motivated to save them. Why you think Naruto was like "Huh?" then happy because he's happy that he has it to save them all. After all, if RS can, why not, just a matter of who has it. That's all I want to say.

Because his Body just moves on his own  , But yeah i really really hate when people portrait Naruto OOC that's big No No in my book kind a like SS makes Sasuke to be Tsunder  . BTW you said that  you gonna give your input on the cover image are you at work now or will you do it later ?

[TouKen4Life3g]

Because his Body just moves on his own  , But yeah i really really hate when people portrait Naruto OOC that's big No No in my book kind a like SS makes Sasuke to be Tsunder  . BTW you said that  you gonna give your input on the cover image are you at work now or will you do it later ?

Cover image? I never said that. It's more concerning about the whole story and something we missed our cue. In fact, today's morning, I found out Tobi's words to Naruto being more literal than we thought about chosen fate. What's more weird on how other parts make sense now. The funny thing is I didn't know Hagoromo been confirmed that he chose Ashura and made the tablet way back in the last arc. So how I missed it, I have no idea.

[narusaku256]

Because his Body just moves on his own  , But yeah i really really hate when people portrait Naruto OOC that's big No No in my book kind a like SS makes Sasuke to be Tsunder  . BTW you said that  you gonna give your input on the cover image are you at work now or will you do it later ?

I still think that cover page or whatever you call that was not for nothing in the last chapter. I mean we saw the similarities ourselves. And we even pointed out the 'pointers' on what could it possibly mean. If that picture means what we pointed out yesterday, then I wonder what is the use of that dragon? It seems to have developed a liking towards Naruto and same with Naruto. He seems to get comfy with the dragon. *cough* *cough* Hashirama's wood dragon *cough* anyone?

[Shadow1275]

 

I still find this funny how no one really applies this to say other characters either who were said to be legendary.

Remember when the 4 Hokage were said to be really powerful? Now look at them. They were taken out like nothing when Madara showed up. Madara has made a mockery of all the characters that were said to be super powerful. All the Kage and the 4 Hokages were said to be these powerful people capable of amazing feats and they were just beaten so easily like they were nothing.

Sasuke himself even got this treatment if you think about. Orochimaru said he was as powerful as Madara and yet his track record is pathetic. Lost to Itachi, Killer Bee, and some contenders with some only winning due to a technicality. He got stabbed by his own sword by Madara and died. He is said to be a master strategist and yet all of his plans have sucked and even backfired.

Kaguya is even making Naruto's and Sasuke's powers look like nothing. Actually, she even made Madara look like a chump as well.

It's what I call the "Dragonball Z syndrome." No matter how legendary someone maybe, there is always someone stronger that trumps them easily. Look at Frieza who was feared to be the most powerful being in the universe and was a huge threat. What happens? He gets trumped by an artificial beings created by Dr. Gero that can take out Frieza easily. Who needs Saiyans? Imagine if Dr. Gero was a good guy and created the Androids to fight Frieza.

Sakura isn't the only one Kishi hyped up only to be knocked down.

True but you have to remember that each of the above characters you mentioned aren't hampered by pairing drama self esteem issues and that they've already demonstrated how powerful and useful they are. The first and second hokages fought the third hokage demonstrating their fighting prowess and then also later against Madara and 10 tails. The third hokage fought Orochimaru and ten tails. The 4th hokage damaged Obito in his fight with the masked man. But it also extends further than that.

 

Each of the kage has shown to be useful to the plot as well. The first hokage "changed" Sasuke with his tale of his battle with Madara, Tobirama created the flying thundergod technique, Sarutobi trained the sannin and inspired naruto, and lord 4th perfected tobirama's technique, implanted the kyubi in Naruto, and even managed to set himself as a failsafe in case Naruto lost control.

 

Is Sakura still useful? Of course she is but even now Naruto basically has surpassed her in even healing ability. Sakura can seal wounds for sure but she can't replace limbs. However the difference between Sakura and the above mentioned characters is that they are never represented as useless or helpless and they don't sulk about it. Heck even when Naruto and Sasuke struggle against an opponent they usually find a way to win or get some souped up power up. Sakura on the other hand has only tied against Ino and defeated Sasori who arguably threw the fight. Heck, even a sharingan-less Kakashi who is usually on the recieving end of the Worf effect managed to be useful in the last chapter.

 

I'm not saying I want Sakura to do everything in a chapter, I'm just saying "Alright Kishi you had all this build up with Sakura's promise at the end of part 1, all of the comments about Sakura surpassing Tsunade and how you wanted to write a strong female. Where's the delivery?"

 

It makes me think sometimes that Kishimoto has set up certain plot elements or ideas that he has straight up abandoned or completely forgotten about within his story.

[James S Cassidy]

You know this reminds me of a saying "in order to rise up you first need to be brought down " or something like that i  see Kishi doing it right now with Sakura  well he did that also with Naruto he was brought down by both Pain and Obito and then he raised up its just the build up is to slow for it so i can understand people being pissed but just because its slow doesn't mean its not gonna happen and this is what's confusing people in here and makes them give up hope  but like i say good tings comes to those who are patient  .

It's like Batman: "Why do we fall Bruce? So we can get back up." So this isn't a new thing and has been done in other stories even Batman. In fact, actually Sakura did it better than Nolan's Batman because she actually strived to be better instead of just taking 8 years off because of one set back.

 

Well, Sakura is a main character so her developments will stand out a lot. Other than that, yes, I can understand. It's like I said in characters, it's not "dead". To us, it is. It's like if we did see Obito's face before the reveal, but you see them fighting him with mask on and keep asking who is he, you can't really yell at them and say it's Obito dammit. It's not that they're dumb, it's more like we got more views than they can. That said we just got the result of this whole team and wake up to Naruto that Sasuke did all this because of coincidence and need Naruto to win the war. Annoying that we have to see it, but for story sake, it has to be done.

 

Yeah. Exactly. It's suits the story ethics. We kind of need it even if we don't want it because we need that story conclusion and Kishi did say he would end this story conclusively. Well, if you are going to get the pairing drama, then you need to know where the characters feelings stand.

 

True but you have to remember that each of the above characters you mentioned aren't hampered by pairing drama self esteem issues and that they've already demonstrated how powerful and useful they are.

 

It makes me think sometimes that Kishimoto has set up certain plot elements or ideas that he has straight up abandoned or completely forgotten about within his story.

And if they were? You're right that the other characters were not hampered by self-esteem and pairing drama, but this is not to say that other characters haven't been through drama at all. If they did go through pairing drama similar to this one would think they would handle it differently or much better than Sakura would have?

I doubt it. Knowing Kishimoto's writing style, if he would give every character the same set-up, they probably would all be the same way. This pairing drama is the only one of it's kind in this story.

However, you keep roping pairing drama and battle prowess into the same category. What does her surpassing Tsunade in power have anything to with the pairing drama she has gone through? Why are you trying to connect these two together? Emotional drama and strength of abilities are two different things, but if you really want to poke at emotional drama, then what about almost every Uchiha in existence that gave in too easily to lose and discomfort?

Madara became evil and corrupted because his brothers died in war and he didn't get the seat of power. Meanwhile Hashirama had brothers die, but never let it corrupt him. He held no hatred against the Uchiha for the death of his brothers.

You got Sasuke who is also being a whiny git and can't get over stuff about Itachi even though he knows Itachi chose that path in life. Ganted, he didn't know at first, but again he still be an angst git for really no reason at all.

Naruto himself was hung all over Sasuke and even Kiba pointed this out. Shouldn't this kind of drama even reflect on his choices?

Obito started an enitre war cause Rin died. He not only lost himself, but lost all faith in humanity because of emotional drama caused by the lose of a loved one.

In order to overcome something you first have to go through it. You want her to get over Sasuke and overcome him, but there hasn't really been enough establishment for her to overcome it. You have to know where you are first before you move in an upward direction. We have been kept in the dark about most things having to do between the Team 7 members and only now have things really been happening between them. Keep in mind that after Sasuke left they haven't been around since then this much. It took him getting involved in the war for these things to transpire.

In a way, you want the results, but don't want to deal with actual problem which is bad. The problem is, you really need to establish where things are before you can really do anything with it and up until this point everything was way too ambiguous. Now that Kishi is being more blunt about things and now that we know where things stand....now we can see where it goes from here.

The only thing I can say now is is that yes, this should have been done way earlier in the story, but can't change that now.

Actually, thinking about it now, the Uchiha were the biggest pansies of the bunch given the track record. Their whole entire clan apparently can't stand to lose their family members and get too caught up in emotions when they die. They invent jutsu that prevents them from dying because they hate losing...this had to be counter acted with another jutsu that stuck them in an infinite loop. Even when told the truth and logic that shows them how things should be, they still do stuff negatively.

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering"

 

They are Edo Tensei.
You might bring up Madara but his body was modified so i dont think it counts.

 

This is the only part of your post I am going to comment on because I feel this is where the problem is.

When it comes to everything else there is always some technicality or some kind of excuse or some kind situational awareness that explains why the battle went the way it did, but then you never apply the same logic to Sakura and her encounters in this war. We have to even about this. You can't use logic one way and then not apply it to another.

It's the whole Batman vs Superman argument all over again where people say Superman is OP. When compared to Batman, of course he is, but if you compare him to the villains he faces he is nowhere near being OP. Speaking of which, how is Batman not OP when he is just a regular human who can do things that not even some other human characters can do?

"They were Edo Tensei"
Yeah, and that gave them an edge. Obito and Madara probably would have taken them out sooner if they weren't Edo Tensei and then they would just be dead. The whole point of the Edo Tensei was to give them an edge in the fight and it worked.

"Madara was juiced up."
It's funny that you use this logic on when everyone, including Sasuke, gets their ass handed to them, but when it comes to Sakura you never mention this. You never mention how broken both Madara and Kaguya are that even they are too much even for the strongest Ninja to tackle when it comes to Sakura, but if Sasuke gets his ass beat down you try to use this to explain it.

No, it doesn't work like that. You either apply the logic to all of it or you don't use the argument at all. This is why I stopped taking you seriously because you pick and choose what applies to what. You can't hold all mistakes against Sakura, but not hold all the mistakes against Naruto or Sasuke. You can sit here and say that Sasuke is a master tactician when some of his plans are basically the same thing you criticized Sakura for.

You can think whatever you want, but you have to stay consistent with it otherwise this is how favoritism and bias comes into play.

People are mad that Sakura can't keep up with Naruto and Sasuke. I get it. She is not as strong as them, but how can she keep up with two guys who gain powers out of nowhere all because they are reincarnations of a previous person? How can she keep up when Kishi keeps moving that finish line as soon as she gets close?

This is why I am not mad at him for what he did with Sakura. She is actually a perfectly written character. What I am mad at is what he has done with Naruto and Sasuke. Even more with Sasuke who he asspulls his powers every chance he gets. So I think the hate is misdirected and really they should look at why he keeps writing Naruto and Sasuke so crappy?

If you really think about it, Sakura is the ONLY character he has written well because unlike other characters her powers are never asspulled. She would be equal to Naruto and Sasuke sans reincarnation powers, but again they cheated. "You gain new powers all because you are meant to inherit those powers."

This is especially true in Sasuke's case where most if not all of his powers were merely there because he was part of a clan or it was given to him. Naruto not so much, but he is in the middle. Naruto gained some powers out of nowhere through inheritance, but he also worked for some of his powers and strengths. Sakura never gained anything because she was of special blood or whatnot. She earned all she trained for.

I think of it this way:
Two Billionaires.
One Billionaire started out with nothing, but made wise investments. They learned their trade and made and bought companies that brought them good fortune with hard work and wise tactics.
The second Billionaire gained his fortune all because their father passed away and passed his wealth down to them.

Who deserved their wealth more?

Sasuke was extremely overhyped and was more a less a huge let down most of the time.

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 June 2014 - 06:56 PM.

[Inferno180]

I still say that there has to be a reason for Sakura just being around rather than just get emotional pressure from Sasuke that SS fans somehow think only empowers SS with all this negativity. She should have her role for something aside from stuff thats just rather building up for future conflict right now with sasuke when he will fight naruto. I mean it is still one thing that with her, anything to naruto is fine, its only conflict is whatever we see with her view towards sasuke that she is questioning constantly.

 

And James, I would say rather than batman vs superman, a better argument would be batman vs ironman, both millionaires with different talents and morals in how they act towards villians and so on, like stark being well a smart-ass that means well but sometimes reckless while bruce is otherwise driven because of his own chaos from the past that he doesnt want to befall others and the aspect of his no killing rule. Thats just a deal of it at base.

Edited by Inferno180, 13 June 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

I'm really worried about how much Sakura's inadequacy in this fight is being highlighted. She's obviously there for a reason and so is Kakashi. But I just don't see how Sakura can help in this fight. Kaguya is on inhuman levels and Sakura couldn't even do that much against Madara. It's better suited as Naruto/Sasuke vs. Kaguya rather than Sakura and Kakashi helping and getting killed.

 

I want to believe she'll have impressive involvement, but I'm just not seeing it. I'm worried that the only reason Sakura and Kakashi are even around is to give more backing for the T7 bond when Sasuke cares again (having flashbacks of them later or something like that) or if, in Sakura's case, it's just to fully resolve the love triangle. We've been getting so many ASS moments and how Naruto was shown so 'great' in comparison to Sasuke, it really does make you wonder if the only purpose is Sakura getting over Sasuke and accepting Naruto fully.

 

I sincerely hope Sakura's not here for the love triangle resolution or if it won't be the only reason. Sakura has a lot of potential and should have a lot more to her than her relationships with Sasuke and Naruto. She doesn't always have to be reflecting on who she likes or who to chose. She should be able to catch up to Naruto and Sasuke, but ... Kishi.

 

I have no idea what Kishimoto's planning ...

 

I agree completely. I can't see Sakura doing anything significant here and if she does, most likely it won't involve fighting -- which won't be very satisfactory since one of the main things being torn down in Sakura's self esteem is her inability to contribute in a fight. I'm concerned that with Sakura's incompetence being so emphasized, (she's not incompetent, but she's sure being made to look like she is and it's kind of pissing me off) that she'll end up playing some sort of sacrificial role. Ugh, I don't even like thinking about it but it keeps popping into my head and I really hope it's just me being paranoid. That, or it's like you said and her purpose there is to kill off any possibility of SasuSaku once and for all. I really hope that's not the reason for it.

 

Honestly, while most seem to be cheering the end of SS, I'm kind of bothered by how this could reflect on NaruSaku. I'd always hoped that Sakura would choose Naruto based on his merits, not on Sasuke's faults. But with the way Kishi's portraying things, it looks like Sakura might end up gravitating to Naruto not because her feelings for him are stronger than those she had for Sasuke, but because Sasuke doesn't care about her. That would be just terrible and I'll be very upset if it happens that way.

 

It's a little disturbing to see you guys all here discouraged , but yeah is easily despair because is Kishimoto fault develops all so painfully slow, but is it very interesting things happening ...

To start Kishimoto is pounding away at these very intense anti-SS moments and deeply painful way to sakura for several consecutive chapters, the funny thing is that sadness is not only caused by that Sasuke does not care about anyone, but that can not help but agree that she is useless. i wish like you guys that Sakura contribute something, but she now is devastated emotionally unable to think coolly now and concentrate on the battle front of her when she has an internal battle, and if a human being here is Sakura, Kishimoto has always said that Sakura is the most emotionally vulnerable character of the manga.

So  she is destroyed internally self-esteem and all desire to fight is crumbling, the rag doll who is now showing all of this, I even not surprised that she would wish sink down into the lava right now, but this is a resource that come writers in their characters when they are ready to evolve and grow and is called "rock bottom", to give it a drama, realism and impact their characters, something that Kishimoto loves to do especially with Sakura as he confessed in her character design.


We must try to understand our characters before they feel disappointed, you can not fight if all senses are blocked, you have to understand not Sakura like a super hero justice that very quickly replenished but as a being human passing through a very bad emotional time, I read a comment of "she could throw the kunai to save Obito" and I think it would be right but to react this quickly as it has Kakashi requires absolute concentration in the battle and head cold, but the state of Sakura now prevents it.

That is just my opinion, I think we have to wait, be patient, it is not the first time that some are disappointed by the slowness of the manga,with Kishi everything is slow.

 

I get what you're saying, but in this situation with a villain who's way out of Sakura's league and with the extent that her self confidence has been torn down, there really isn't a scenario that I can see right now to build her back up in a way that justifies such a dramatic destruction of Sakura's self esteem. I mean, she's not going to defeat Kaguya or anything even close to that. Why sink her so low to the point that she doesn't even seem to have the self preservation to save herself? Even when she's rescued by Kakashi she just hangs there like a useless rag doll.

 

This is not the Sakura who defeated Sasori, or managed to keep herself together in the Pein arc after her entire village was destroyed. Even in the Forest of Death when she had basically no skills to speak of, she kept fighting to protect Naruto and Sasuke even though she had no real hope of winning. Sakura has her moments where she doubts and questions herself and that's what makes her so human and relatable, but this just seems unnecessarily extreme. 

 

I'm afraid I just don't see any way for Kishi resolve what he's done to Sakura character, at least not in this arc, which means having to watch her be all defeated and miserable for who knows how long. I don't know how much longer I'll be able to bear it.

 

I don't really think this makes Sakura look bad. In fact, it just makes her the most human out of anyone. At least she is aware that and not delusional like some of the other characters are. I am sure if you compared Sakura and Karin right now, Sakura's development looks a whole lot better.
 

 

Karin is an underdeveloped side character and Sakura is (supposed to be) a main character. Of course Sakura's development looks far better by comparison. The two of them should never be compared on any level just because they both have/had feelings for Sasuke. It's like comparing Naruto to Kiba and saying "Naruto's development looks a whole lot better". It goes without saying and such comparisons of main characters to lesser side characters does not make a lick of sense. I'm not going to judge Sakura's development on how she measures up next to Karin, of all people.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

This is the only part of your post I am going to comment on because I feel this is where the problem is.

When it comes to everything else there is always some technicality or some kind of excuse or some kind situational awareness that explains why the battle went the way it did, but then you never apply the same logic to Sakura and her encounters in this war. We have to even about this. You can't use logic one way and then not apply to another.

It's the whole Batman vs Superman argument all over again where people say Superman is OP. When compared to Batman, of course he is, but if you compare him to the villains he faces he is nowhere near being OP. Speaking of which, how is Batman not OP when he is just a regular human who can do things that not even some other human characters can do?

"They were Edo Tensei"
Yeah, and that gave them an edge. Obito and Madara probably would have taken them out sooner if they weren't Edo Tensei and then they would just be dead. The whole point of the Edo Tensei was to give them an edge in the fight and it worked.

It's canon and stated not just by them and it clearly shows they're not a their max power, we saw Hashirama taming a kyuubi and owning Madara.
 

"Madara was juiced up."
It's funny that you use this logic on when everyone, including Sasuke, gets their ass handed to them, but when it comes to Sakura you never mention this. You never mention how broken both Madara and Kaguya are that even they are too much even for the strongest Ninja to tackle when it comes to Sakura, but if Sasuke gets his ass beat down you try to use this to explain it.

No, it doesn't work like that. You either apply the logic to all of it or you don't use the argument at all. This is why I stopped taking you seriously because you pick and choose what applies to what. You can't hold all mistakes against Sakura, but not hold all the mistakes against Naruto or Sasuke. You can sit here and say that Sasuke is a master tactician when some of his plans are basically the same thing you criticized Sakura for.

I use it as an argument because it's canon, Kabuto states he's special, he got the cells of Hashirama and was revived at his prime.
His edo tensei version was stronger than when he was alive.

In comparison there's stuff like "Sakura surpassed Tsunade, Sakura's smarter than Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi"
And yet where's the deliver?
There's no panel showing Sakura doing something superior to Tsunade i've seen the inverse, i've saw Sakura struggling to save Shikamaru and Tsunade healed hin in seconds.
I didnt see Sakura creating a single plan that would prove to me that she's smarter than them.
Sakura's plan to kill Sasuke was total fail which was pointed by Kakashi, and her plan to attack Madara the same thing.
 

You can think whatever you want, but you have to stay consistent with it otherwise this is how favoritism and bias comes into play.

I'm not being favoritism, my only complaints are that Kishimoto states things about Sakura but doesnt deliver.
 

People are mad that Sakura can't keep up with Naruto and Sasuke. I get it. She is not as strong as them, but how can she keep up with two guys who gain powers out of nowhere all because they are reincarnations of a previous person? How can she keep up when Kishi keeps moving that finish line as soon as she gets close?

No one here expects her to keep up with Naruto and Sasuke, in fact i expect her to have at least one thing that make her important to the team, i've seen it on the three way deadlock but then Naruto gains OP healing powers that surpass her's.
She goes back to being irrelevant to team 7 once again.
 

This is why I am not mad at him for what he did with Sakura. She is actually a perfectly written character. What I am mad at is what he has done with Naruto and Sasuke. Even more with Sasuke who he asspulls his powers every chance he gets. So I think the hate is misdirected and really they should look at why he keeps writing Naruto and Sasuke so crappy?

You're not mad because you keep downgrading your expectatives about her character, from your point of view and the way your express on your posts, your only expectative is Sakura and Naruto being a couple in the end.
With being downgraded from a heroine(begining of part 1) to simply pairing drama device.
 

If you really think about it, Sakura is the ONLY character he has written well because unlike other characters her powers are never asspulled. She would be equal to Naruto and Sasuke sans reincarnation powers, but again they cheated. "You gain new powers all because you are meant to inherit those powers."

She's the only character who hasnt asspulled on the series so this is "writing well" i would agree for Naruto's standards.
The only perfect character in my books was Kabuto.
He was a great villain and wasnt like the others who were like "muh revenge".

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 13 June 2014 - 03:18 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

And James, I would say rather than batman vs superman, a better argument would be batman vs ironman, both millionaires with different talents and morals in how they act towards villians and so on, like stark being well a smart-ass that means well but sometimes reckless while bruce is otherwise driven because of his own chaos from the past that he doesnt want to befall others and the aspect of his no killing rule. Thats just a deal of it at base.

 

I would use that if we are actually looking at two characters on even stance and how they compare with the choices that they make, but I am rather looking at the arguments people make against one character all because of a certain situation. The Batman vs Superman argument is that many fans see Superman as OP. Well, compared to Batman he is OP because Batman is not a super powered alien that can lift 6.6 sextillion tons.

However, compare Superman to Doomsday or Darkseid and the match is a little bit more even with Superman not looking so OP now.

The point is not the comparison, but the arguments people make. Compare Sakura to Madara and of course she going to look weak. Every person looked weak compared to Madara even Hashirama, but how is this a fair judgement to say that Sakura is weaker than Tsunade when she is being compared to a character that has kicked everyone's ass at least once?

If I compare Sakura and Tsunade right now, I would say that Sakura is stronger if not equal to her because Sakura not only has all of Tsunade's powers, but she is also younger than her.

Compare Sakura to Naruto and Sasuke...Well, here is the hard part. I'd say without a doubt that before they got their hax update, she was on equal footing. After though, of course she looks weaker.
 

Karin is an underdeveloped side character and Sakura is (supposed to be) a main character. Of course Sakura's development looks far better by comparison. The two of them should never be compared on any level just because they both have/had feelings for Sasuke. It's like comparing Naruto to Kiba and saying "Naruto's development looks a whole lot better". It goes without saying and such comparisons of main characters to lesser side characters does not make a lick of sense. I'm not going to judge Sakura's development on how she measures up next to Karin, of all people.

Again with this weak argument. "Because she is a main character." I have said this countless times over and over again. She is not the main character. Because she is a main character means she will be involved with the story, but does not mean she will get the most fights or the most screen time.

I could argue that the reason why she is a main character is the reason she got more development than any other female on the cast list. Why do you think she was more involved than Hinata or Ino?

Then here is where you bring up Sasuke and why he got so much attention, but really thinking about it Naruto still got the most attention. There were points in time where Sasuke never made an appearence what so ever. Where was he doing the Pain arc or the Gaara Arc in the beginning of part 2? He barely got mentions at all.

Again, you say "you can't compare them" yet every single time I see everyone comparing Sakura to Hinata or Sasuke or Naruto or Tsunade. Talk about double standards. So yes I can compare them, because everyone else compares her to Naruto and Sasuke. Everyone compares her to everyone else including Tsunade herself.

Then I will say this to everyone else's arguments

"You can't compare Sakura to Naruto and Sasuke because she is only A main character, not THE main character."

All arguments invalid.

Kaoru is a main character too in Ruroni Kenshin, but her involvement is no different to Sakura's situation. She is not there when Kenshin was fighting Lord Shishio nor did she help with the battle at all.
 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 June 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Trust me, there's more than that. We just got done past the whole Team 7 isn't there because of Sasuke. Naruto was in the zone but Sasuke wasn't and he got a clear picture when Sasuke straight up told him that Naruto only matters to him for this war and others are just there. It's not really a repeat, it's a result. The funny thing is you have three strikes with Sasuke to Sakura:

Sasuke didn't care at all when Sakura got stabbed regardless if she's ok, but no sign of curiousity: strike 1

Sakura asked Sasuke what's going on to understand the big picture but told her to kitten off and she is useless that laters spread to Kakashi: strike 2

Sasuke finally confirmed that's already said that he don't care for anyone and just need Naruto for mission sake and confirmed that he only saved Sakura and Kakashi because they were there already by Naruto, so it was still never his idea: strike 3

This whole moment pretty much came to the conclusion for Naruto to see Sasuke's role. Now, we can focus on actions, here and there. You already got Sasuke don't care, Sasuke not communicating, and Sasuke not rescuing. No more fields to cover. It's all set now.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 13 June 2014 - 04:10 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Trust me, there's more than that. We just got done past the whole Team 7 isn't there because of Sasuke. Naruto was in the zone but Sasuke wasn't and he got a clear picture when Sasuke straight up told him that Naruto only matters to him for this war and others are just there. It's not really a repeat, it's a result. The funny thing is you have three strikes with Sakura to Naruto:

Sasuke didn't care at all when Sakura got stabbed regardless if she's ok, but no sign of curiousity: strike 1

Sakura asked Sasuke what's going on to understand the big picture but told her to kitten off and she is useless that laters spread to Kakashi: strike 2

Sasuke finally confirmed that's already said that he don't care for anyone and just need Naruto for mission sake and confirmed that he only saved Sakura and Kakashi because they were there already by Naruto, so it was still never his idea: strike 3

This whole moment pretty much came to the conclusion for Naruto to see Sasuke's role. Now, we can focus on actions, here and there. You already got Sasuke don't care, Sasuke not communicating, and Sasuke not rescuing. No more fields to cover. It's all set now.

Basically establishing what really is and not being subtle about it. No more confusion...at least from Kishi's end of it.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 June 2014 - 03:52 PM.

[Gojira]

That she'll stop thinking about Sasuke-kun when she makes love to Naruto?

Close but not quite.

Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone!