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#2101 Luna

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:26 AM

 

I would have more than anything else relished at the prospect of SM Orochimaru and SM Kabuto collaborating as a team against Naruto and Sasuke. Both sides hold a unique relationship with the other. Orochimaru was once the personal mentor of Sasuke and the impetus that first compelled him to abandon Konoha. Had it not been for him events would be significantly different than what they are now. Sasuke may hold some embittered thoughts against Orochimaru as he has incessantly attempted to overcome his mind and his motives represent a form of opposition against the Uchiha Clan as a whole. If his insatiable thirst for bloodshed has maintained itself throughout these moral epiphanies then he will undoubtedly want to kill Orochimaru for the final time; if nothing else it would be to destroy an inevitable threat that impedes the aspirations of Itachi.  

 

As for Kabuto and Naruto, well in many respects they are dualistic equivalents to each other. One followed the path of light and benevolence alongside a mentor from the three Sannin in effort to become more powerful so that they could acquire the acknowledgement of those around him whilst the other was inveigled by the hope of finding his own identity. Over time as they matured into capable fighters they begin to mimic their respective mentors. The one difference Sasuke and Kabuto is that the former only perceived Orochimaru as a means to an end; he achieved the strength necessary to complete his personal quest and then had forsaken him. Kabuto, whilst he did acquire the strength of Orochimaru's techniques and fighting style, also sought to emulate his ideals and motivations but not without having an ulterior intention of his own. This is but another similarity that Kabuto shares with Naruto. Naruto also wished to inherit the ideology and ambitions of his teacher; he believed that Jiraiya was a gallant and righteous man (aside from being a sexual deviant). Not only did they become actual successors to their respective teachers but they also mastered the sage techniques which the Sannin were only able to imperfectly use.

 

Then we come to Naruto and Kabuto's direct relationship with each other. Naruto was betrayed by this man after believing him to be compani and he perceives him as being another person who was enticed by Orochimaru. Much of the interaction between these two characters is started by Kabuto. I always thought it was very interesting how he developed this oddly debauched admiration for Naruto and his principles of perseverance against adversity. The fact that he experienced similar shortcomings relating to their lack of a personal identity at first does make Kabuto a parallel to Naruto but he never did fall into either extremity on the moral or political compass like Gaara (originally an indiscriminate, murderous child who found great pleasure in the deaths of other) or Nagato (wanted to subjugate the world using what basically equates to the MAD concept) at least not at first. His actions and motives were ambiguous, he would assist either side as long as it assisted his own personal motivations though his respect for Orochimaru was genuine. You could see this moral fluctuation several times throughout the manga like when Kabuto, seemingly going against the ambitions of Orochimaru, was going to murder Sasuke as he recuperated or when he healed an unconscious Hinata at the Chunin Exams stadium despite it being unnecessary to Orochimaru's mission. It was that unpredictability in what Kabuto would do next that distinguished him from other antagonists. Yes, Sasuke experienced similar things but his motivations were always concentrated on a specific person or group (at least until recently). Kabuto's motivations were as undefined as his actions.

 

Apprentice against apprentice. That is what I want to see between Naruto and Kabuto. Their relationship with each other was always erratic but Kabuto did assist Naruto as often as he attempted to harm him. Unlike other antagonists such as Pain (initially before Naruto began to influence him) Kabuto appeared to be interested in the person rather than the beast inside him for much of the manga. So much so that he emulated Naruto to create this monstrous reptilian creature from his own body. It shows a level of twisted dedication which I can't help but become fascinated with. How far will this man will push the boundaries of human pertinacity in order to achieve his objectives? What exactly is it that causes him to be attracted to Naruto to the degree which he has offered to spare his life during battle so that he can achieve his dream of Hokageship? Does he see himself in Naruto? Is that why he appears to hold this subconscious desire to see Naruto succeed?

 

I would have enjoyed seeing how Naruto would react to hearing Kabuto's tale about his past. If anyone could/should relate to him it would be Naruto and it honestly did appear to be that Kishi was putting things into place for another confrontation between the two of them but that wasn't the situation. It's quite sad actually because Kabuto assigned so much effort into his ambitions. But perhaps he may not be converted entirely, similar to Sasuke. Even if Kabuto acknowledges the will of Izanami to prevent him from becoming a replica of Orochimaru that shouldn't remove the connection he shares to Naruto or his precepts. Furthermore, his loyalty to Orochimaru would remain there. Kabuto promised that he would eventually battle Naruto in a symbolical clashing of personal achievement and to assess who's newly acquired identity is the superior one. I continue to hope that that may still be possible. SM Naruto vs SM Kabuto holds so much weight IMO that it would be a shame if it never occurred. To me personally it holds more significance than Naruto vs Sasuke even.

 

Sorry for going off like that. Anyway, Orochimaru is acting out of personal necessity. He can't possibly hope to defeat Sasuke in his present condition so he needs to acquire as much strength as he possibly can. This "alliance" that he is part of is a product of convenience so that he is not murdered whilst actively attempting to consume Sasuke. He is no more an anti-hero than Taka was an actual part of Akatsuki's group instead of being affiliates seeking to use others for their own benefit. It's possible that he may revive Jiraiya but how would that assist Orochimaru in achieving immortality or ultimate knowledge? Jiraiya under the effects of Edo Tensei would be without many of his most powerful abilities as I sincerely doubt the frogs would consciously choose to help him and without them he can't even access Sage Mode/Hermit Mode. His revival and comprehension of just how far Naruto has come would hold symbolical importance to the Sannin vs new generation issue but it isn't as if he would pose much of a threat in an altercation with what abilities he has shown. It is something to think about though.

I would prefer Sakura and Naruto vs Orochimaru and Kabuto and this isn't because of pairing or anyting its because Kabuto called Sakura "dead weight" and such so many times It would only be better for her to show him who is dead weight or a burden.



 


#2102 Atheck

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:37 AM

I would prefer Sakura and Naruto vs Orochimaru and Kabuto and this isn't because of pairing or anyting its because Kabuto called Sakura "dead weight" and such so many times It would only be better for her to show him who is dead weight or a burden.

 

Sakura doesn't really have much of a connection to either of them as she's only encountered them scarcely throughout the manga. Almost always their attention has been centred around Naruto and Sasuke. Apart from a single insult and her association with Team 7 and the Sannin she doesn't hold much weight in that particular conflict IMO. Well not against Kabuto at least, Orochimaru is a possibility since he is basically the embodiment of everything that coerced Sasuke down a path of darkness. Her desire to fight against Orochimaru for the sake of her team is a possible reason for her involvement but it just isn't quite the same as the other two going about it by themselves for that situation. Honestly, an argument could be made to there being greater legitimacy for Sakura to fight Tobi since his ideals are interwoven with Naruto's and the person that is inspiring him the most to achieve the MEP is an unofficial parallel with Sakura; she could be an essential component for him to realize the error of his ways if Kishi wanted it.



#2103 dl316bh

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:12 AM

So, regarding last chapter, I'd just like to note that I was the mutha****a mocking everybody for panicking at the first sign of trouble specifically because the writing was always on the wall and **** was gonna go down eventually. Even Kishi's not so bad a writer he'd unintentionally set everything he did up, thematically or otherwise. But he still ain't all that good either. Question is, will everyone remember s*** next time there's a bump in the road? Assuming there is one before he finally decides to end this huge ass thing.

 

Yes, this is me sitting back in my chair, grin on my face saying "I told you, I told you, but no nobody listened aww he's just Debbycakes he just don't know".

 

So I heard about Sasuke wanting to become hokage and I just laaaaaaaaaaaughed. Seriously dude? Kishimoto absolutely cannot keep Sasuke straight in desires, motive and all that. Dude just wants to do whatever's convenient to the circumstances. Sasuke can be such a walking plot contrivance at times.

 

Now, as far as this chapter...

 

It's about time Sakura was allowed to do something constructive again. It only took a couple hundred chapters. I'm glad to hear she's finally getting her due but there was no excuse for writing her as such a non entity for so long.

 

This has been Debbycakes, live and in color up in your grill to remind ya'll he's a smug sumkitten who knows what's up.

 

*sunglasses*

 

 

 

*SMUGNESS DISENGAGE*

 

No, but seriously. Remember this the next time something looks bad or whatever, guys. It's kind of embarrassing to see fellow shippers completely lose it the second anything looks remotely bad.

 

Patterns, themes and the like are all important things to note because they are almost ALWAYS there for a reason. The person that builds a theme, parallels things and foreshadows things only to ditch them at the last second WITHOUT A VERY GOOD REASON - IE "everything you knew was wrong" or if the story relies on a twist that changes everything you knew about the work - is a terrible writer. You can take that to the bank.


Edited by dl316bh, 03 June 2013 - 06:27 AM.

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#2104 Hiraishin

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:18 AM

One thing this chapter made me fear is the possibility of, after he finished drawing the chapter, Kishi going, "Welp, now that Sakura's punched some stuff and defeated some fodder enemies, I can move on to other characters," and that's it for Sakura (at least for the time being).

I don't know how likely that is, but I hope this isn't it for Sakura for now. I don't want the focus to shift immediately to other characters like Kakashi & Obito or Naruto & Sakura and the next time Sakura makes a significant appearance is toward the end. I want her fighting abilities to get some more focus, maybe doing a combo attack with Naruto (or even one of the Hokage) or showing us how she acquired the seal and how it works, and fighting someone important—instead of some Juubi parts, the Juubi itself, perhaps, and doing some real damage.

I hope Kishimoto doesn't think that this chapter makes up for forgetting her for so long.

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#2105 spring'scherryblossoms

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:46 AM

Very late to the party. I haven't been here for years and the site changed a lot. Good thing I was able to remember my name & password. lol

 

I only have one thing to say about the chapter. SAKURA-CHAN!!!!! kittening FINALLY!!!!!!! SHOW THEM WHO'S BOSS!!!!! :sakura:  :th_yeah:  :w00t:

I can't wait to see what she and her boys do next.  :kukuku:

 

/goes back to lurking



#2106 HauntedCake

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:03 AM

So is this weeks chapter out Tuesday?


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#2107 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:40 AM

So is this weeks chapter out Tuesday?

Same as last week. Wednesday.



#2108 HauntedCake

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:41 AM

Same as last week. Wednesday.

Oh ok


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#2109 Mistraal

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:23 AM

I am tired of the pairing war. No offense, but it feels like 90% of the fandom only cares about the pairing war and nothing else. Between mistranslations, misinterpretations, and other things, it feels like we will never reach an end.

I don't know why Sakura still has lingering feelings for Sasuke. Really, there is just nothing appealing about the guy. Like, what is it about him that even the real female fandoms find appealing? He is a jerk, he attempted to kill two girls, and he is into nothing more than self-satisfaction. I don't get it. Is it the bench scene? I was hoping Sakura figured it out by now that that wasn't Sasuke, but...I am not sure. (And you'd think in a world where people can imitate others down to near perfect degree that the possibility of the Sasuke in the bench scene not being the real him would have clicked in sooner or later.)

Help me out here, ladies, why do you think girls are attached to Sasuke so? If it is just his looks, than wow. How shallow can you get? I don't get it, and maybe I never will. I guess I could argue why guys go after woman who are like that, but...I haven't seen that kind of behavior be accepted.

One thing I do find hard to believe is when you have a character who is so smart that they practically know everything, but in one area they can't even recognize the obvious. I find it more acceptable if the character was all around stupid, but not when a character is supposedly so intelligent across the board or something.

HOLY kitten.....
 
WAS IT REALLY NOT HIM????

Sorry, serious news to me there.

When i was a lot younger and got into Naruto I was a huge SasuSaku shipper. Loved Sasuke. He reminded me of the guy in r/l I had a crush on named David and no matter how hard I tried David never returned my feelings. He was moody, self-centered, and just a real jerk to me sometimes. I liked David because he was aloof, he was smart, he seemed to always know what to do and I looked up to him in a way and i really wanted him to like me. Then, once in a while there would be a small glimmer of his concern for me and it was enough to keep me hanging on. This continued throughout high school and into the beginnings of college. This guy even wore a Sharigan necklace.

Eventually every girl realizes what their moms tried to teach them when they were young but they have to learn on their own. The NICE guy will always be there for you and really love you while the sexy "bad-boy" really isn't worth the heartache and effort.

I swear though, anytime you finally pick the nice guy there's the bad boy sitting on your doorstep ready to get serious. :hm:
 
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EDIT:

Ohhh these feels :_; Haven't thought about this in forever. I think this si why SS will always be my #2 ship is cause i can't really forget the parallel to my own life and how it made me feel. I swear me and this guy said most of the things in the vid below.
 

Feels


Anyways, I hope I answered you.


Edited by Mistraal, 03 June 2013 - 12:12 PM.

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So THAT'S how it is!!!!

 

 


#2110 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:06 PM

IT'S ONLY MONDAY AND MY HEART IS BEATING FAST FOR CHAPTER 633  :argh:

 

HOW I CAN I SURVIVE FOR ANOTHER 2 DAYS!!


Edited by ramenanmitsu, 03 June 2013 - 01:07 PM.

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#2111 Qia

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:25 PM

I don't know why Sakura still has lingering feelings for Sasuke. Really, there is just nothing appealing about the guy. Like, what is it about him that even the real female fandoms find appealing? He is a jerk, he attempted to kill two girls, and he is into nothing more than self-satisfaction. I don't get it. Is it the bench scene? I was hoping Sakura figured it out by now that that wasn't Sasuke, but...I am not sure. (And you'd think in a world where people can imitate others down to near perfect degree that the possibility of the Sasuke in the bench scene not being the real him would have clicked in sooner or later.)

Help me out here, ladies, why do you think girls are attached to Sasuke so? If it is just his looks, than wow. How shallow can you get? I don't get it, and maybe I never will. I guess I could argue why guys go after woman who are like that, but...I haven't seen that kind of behavior be accepted.

One thing I do find hard to believe is when you have a character who is so smart that they practically know everything, but in one area they can't even recognize the obvious. I find it more acceptable if the character was all around stupid, but not when a character is supposedly so intelligent across the board or something.

Hmm...I think I answered a question like this before. But I guess I could again if you want an answer that badly. When it comes to how the female finds him appealing (except myself), I think it has to do with their perception of his character.  Yes he's the bad boy, but he's that bad boy that they think that change. He's the bad boy with a horrible past that just needs a little love to really open up and show his "real self". I guess what I'm trying to say is that his worst actions are mostly shrugged off because I *think* he's perceived as a misunderstood boy by them (this may not be true for all of them, but it's what I've seen.

 

And I would like nothing more than to go into a better explanation, but I have a class to get to now. But yes, I don't think Sakura really realizes yet that Sasuke wasn't really Sasuke at the time of the bench scene. And can you really blame her? The worst he's ever treated her before he tried to kill her in part 2 is after he'd gotten that seal from Orochimaru. Before then, they were at least on good terms enough for her to think that she might be able to get through to him, like most teen girls think they can get through to the "bad boy".


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#2112 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:27 PM

IT'S ONLY MONDAY AND MY HEART IS BEATING FAST FOR CHAPTER 633  :argh:

 

HOW I CAN I SURVIVE FOR ANOTHER 2 DAYS!!

Me too but i'm mostly concerned plz NO SS Moments.


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#2113 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:37 PM

Me too but i'm mostly concerned plz NO SS Moments.

Oh yeah, I hope so too. I truly, really, sincerely hope there is no Sasuke saving Sakura bridal style. Seriously, this is the one thing that really got me worried and afraid since Sasuke joined in the team 7 fight!

 

But since Sakura is really strong and she doesn't need any savings I can safely say that threat is gone  :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.....Or so I hope


Edited by ramenanmitsu, 03 June 2013 - 01:43 PM.

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#2114 HauntedCake

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:41 PM

Me too but i'm mostly concerned plz NO SS Moments.

This


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#2115 Gravenimage

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 02:23 PM

Oh boy here we go :roll:. We're only 2 days from the new chapter and people are worry about SS moments. If Kishi pulls SS moments it will be for trolling nothing more. I know he's planning to kill the pairing just like he did with NH. Let's face it he committed murder to the pairing with confirming Naruto still liking Sakura "even after everything Hinata did for him :roll:" and Minato confirming Sakura/Kushina parallel remember Kushina's final words to Naruto "find someone like your mother". 


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#2116 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 02:30 PM

The biggest concern for me right now is who is going to fight against the final villain? 

 

Is Madara going to fight with Hashirama? That really doesn't bode well with me.

It should be team 7 that should fight against the final villain. 

If the alliance have to rely on the previous Hokages to do the fighting for them, what does that say about them? 

I would be a little disappointed if the only fight team 7 gets in this war will be against the Juubi. 

It's quite an easy win when we have four overpowered Hokages on our side.

Especially, when last chapter declared Sasuke to be the anti-hero instead of the final villain. 

 

Here I'm hoping that Orochimaru has something under his sleeve. (Suigetsu did say, Orochimaru can change the tides of the war). 

Such as turning the Four Hokages against them, when the fight vs. Juubi is over. 


Edited by ramenanmitsu, 03 June 2013 - 02:32 PM.

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#2117 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 02:32 PM

So is Madara going to fight with Hashirama? That really doesn't bode well with me.

It should be team 7 that should fight against the final villain. 

If the alliance have to rely on the previous Hokages to do the fighting for them, what does that say about them? 

I would be a little disappointed if the only fight team 7 gets in this war will be against the Juubi. 

Especially, when last chapter declared Sasuke to be the anti-hero instead of the final villain. 

 

Here I'm hoping that Orochimaru has something under his sleeve. (Suigetsu did say, Orochimaru can change the tides of the war). 

Such as turning the Four Hokages against them, when the fight vs. Juubi is over. 

I wish Sasuke could go away to come back to his team, and Naruto fight against his father.


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#2118 Atheck

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 02:32 PM

Oh boy here we go :roll:. We're only 2 days from the new chapter and people are worry about SS moments. If Kishi pulls SS moments it will be for trolling nothing more. I know he's planning to kill the pairing just like he did with NH. Let's face it he committed murder to the pairing with confirming Naruto still liking Sakura "even after everything Hinata did for him :roll:" and Minato confirming Sakura/Kushina parallel remember Kushina's final words to Naruto "find someone like your mother". 

 

To be honest, I'm more concerned with how Kishi will address Sakura's new abilities now after having finally unveiled her seal. Will he continue to focus on her and Team 7 primarily or will he divide the panels amongst other characters? Chapter 632 will hopefully not be the only time dedicated to Sakura in this fight but when you consider Kishi's unpredictable writing methods anything is possible. I'm not that concerned with SS since any debatable "moments" between Sakura and Sasuke is more than likely just Kishi bolstering the pairing tension before the inevitable conclusion of NS finally coming to be. Although that could definitely change in the future depending on the significance of future SS content.



#2119 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 02:35 PM

I wish Sasuke could go away to come back to his team, and Naruto fight against his father.

I wish we could see team 7 vs. Previous Hokages/Madara/Orochimaru/Kabuto.

 

I really want to see team 7 fight against a human being. Not some brainless monster  -_-

As of now, the alliance has too much of an advantage that it's not exciting enough!


Edited by ramenanmitsu, 03 June 2013 - 02:36 PM.

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#2120 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 02:37 PM

 

To be honest, I'm more concerned with how Kishi will address Sakura's new abilities now after having finally unveiled her seal. Will he continue to focus on her and Team 7 primarily or will he divide the panels amongst other characters? Chapter 632 will hopefully not be the only time dedicated to Sakura in this fight but when you consider Kishi's unpredictable writing methods anything is possible. I'm not that concerned with SS since any debatable "moments" between Sakura and Sasuke is more than likely just Kishi bolstering the pairing tension before the inevitable conclusion of NS finally coming to be. Although that could definitely change in the future depending on the significance of future SS content.

I think this concern come mostly from Sakura's development rather than pairing stuff, we saw Ino who matured during the whole arc, lose her father and had to fought with her teacher, learns a lot about friendship, comrades and ends up wanting to support Naruto to make sure he succeed along wiht everyone else, after all this lesson of Maturity she pulls off that her love for Sasuke is perfect in detriment with her friends putting her "love" above her friends, Kishimoto showed the two girls as shallow (Karin and INo) Kishimoto said Sakura would be more matured but then you look at her development, do you think it's mature for someome continues loving Sasuke in detriment for all the development she got to move on, while Ino was there fighting, Sakura mostly got development about pairing stuff on this arc, where a lover nin comes out from nowhere and tells her that she should love a great guy...

Not just Ino and Karin but also Hinata who was doing fine until she pulled that "his hand is so strong" when she should had been thinking about Neji who just died.


Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 June 2013 - 02:39 PM.

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