4036 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

 

I think there's a very good chance you're right.  In a post I made (way back on page ~20) I mentioned that it could very well be that the manga will end with Naruto and Sakura's relationship finally changing directions in his favor.  Like, maybe at the end he asks her on a real date and she accepts.  Or we get the bench scene revisited, and it sets the stage for what's ahead.

 

A lot of the gloom and doom in this thread is due to people allowing their expectations for a specific outcome -- or a specific path to that outcome to be taken -- and it's going to happen in a way we didn't expect or haven't obsessed over for five years.  Doesn't mean it isn't going to happen, it means it's not happening the way we want or expect.

 

And that's what your post points out.  That maybe Kishimoto wants to break Sakura down.  Maybe that's the only way he felt he could show her loyalty and devotion in love, but have it broken and reset for someone who deserves it.

 

That doesn't make me any happier with the execution of this chapter, but that's because I readily admit I had expectations that Sakura's feelings would be resolved in a different way.  A better way -- at least according to me.  SIgh.  But I'm not writing the story.

That's my ultimate view of it, but this way...it is just so cringy. It's so...I don't know. I can't find the right words. I just hate this poor execution and obsession over the "importance of Sasuke." There are so many ways he could have written this much better.

I also partially blame the editors. Aren't editors supposed to help move the story along in a smooth way? I don't get it, what am I not getting? I feel like I am in the dark and can't see some what is right in front of me.

[Candleguy]

See I can totally understand people who are worried about Narusaku being wirtten decently. I get that

 

But the people who are expecting SS to happen have been using the same terrible SS arguments we've know were BS for years. Most of which are conveniently ignoring how much Sasuke is not in love with Sakura or how he is not even close to her at this point.

Edited by Candleguy, 27 September 2014 - 02:18 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

See I can totally understand people who are worried about Narusaku being wirtten decently. I get that

 

But the people who are expecting SS to happen have been using the same terrible SS arguments we've know were BS for years. Most of which are conveniently ignoring how much Sasuke is not in love with Sakura or how he is not even close to her at this point.

Agreed. I am not worried about the pairings...I am worried about the story itself.

Also, I am tired of people saying "Sasuke didn't kill Sakura so that means he loves her." I am really hating this argument. Sasuke didn't kill Kakashi either, does that mean he is in love with Kakashi?

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

I was thinking the same thing. If Sakura is going to move on, she needs to know why she felt so strongly for Sasuke. She needs to dig deep and go at the very root of it for both herself and the audiences' sake. There is a chance it was the image that Naruto left of Sasuke in the Ch.3, though I hope it's not just the forehead remark because it feels a little too shallow for the NS's development IMO.

 

I also have this theory Sakura might think Sasuke is who she loves because of Team 7. Because of how happy she felt with Team 7, she basically redirected that to Sasuke because she already had a crush on him.  
 

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 27 September 2014 - 02:26 AM.

[KnS]

That's my ultimate view of it, but this way...it is just so cringy. It's so...I don't know. I can't find the right words. I just hate this poor execution and obsession over the "importance of Sasuke." There are so many ways he could have written this much better.

 

I agree.  I'm so sick of Sasuke I can't stand it anymore.  I've been sick of him since the Chuunin Exams, and he's just become progressively more intolerable.  It used to be more of a passive disgust, now it's full-blown loathing.  If I never saw his smug face again it would still be too soon. 

I also partially blame the editors. Aren't editors supposed to help move the story along in a smooth way? I don't get it, what am I not getting? I feel like I am in the dark and can't see some what is right in front of me.

 

I don't understand how any writing/editorial process could result in what has happened with this story.  It was so good and characterized so well for such a long time, but in the last few years it's as if they've totally lost their way.  I don't know.

 

But you're not alone, James.  I feel lost too, in the sense of trying to discern the plan here.

[James S Cassidy]

 

I agree.  I'm so sick of Sasuke I can't stand it anymore.  I've been sick of him since the Chuunin Exams, and he's just become progressively more intolerable.  It used to be more of a passive disgust, now it's full-blown loathing.  If I never saw his smug face again it would still be too soon. 

 

 

I don't understand how any writing/editorial process could result in what has happened with this story.  It was so good and characterized so well for such a long time, but in the last few years it's as if they've totally lost their way.  I don't know.

 

But you're not alone, James.  I feel lost too, in the sense of trying to discern the plan here.

Cheers to that. If I never see Sasuke again, it will be too soon.

[BlazingDynamo]

I find it strange how some of the SS fans I talked to today on Youtube they said they found yesterday's chapter pro SS when Sasuke clearly said "he's not interested in her"?

[Silent Storm]

Straying a bit off the current topic, from observing this thread and other parts of the forum tbh I think people need to make a choice as to where they stand with this ship and the manga in general.

 

I was around during the time Neji died and I think this tops that moment as this place being the lowest the community has ever been with how toxic and depressing it's been. Meanwhile other rival shippings are celebrating despite the fact that this chapter damaged their preferred ship just as much as it damaged NaruSaku.

 

Right now people need to choose where they stand with this shipping because right now the negativity is not healthy. I've been there and trust me getting this invested over fiction will do you no favours in the long run.

 

Choose on where you want to:

 

Support NaruSaku till the bitter end.

Choose to be against the pairing based on what happened.

Remain completely neutral and try and enjoy the manga for things other than the romantic subplot.

 

I believe with the string of positive NaruSaku moments and negative SasuSaku moments, people got too caught up in the moment and the curveball Kishimoto threw has shattered whatever hopes you had of this pairing finally becoming canon.

 

Personally I am going to remain neutral in all this as this is seriously hampering my enjoyment of the series. The romantic subplot has been so poorly handled and I kinda wish I never got into the series though I still want to stick around and see what happens, and despite my likeness for the pairing diminishing, no way in hell will I accept a NaruHina (doubt this is even on the tabl) or SasuSaku ending.

 

Now, commenting on whats being discussed now, I find it interesting people are commenting on this scenario as it's something a member called GoogleIsMyFriend predicted would happen all the way back in April. He said for NaruSaku to be canon Sasuke would have to be redeemed which will then give Sakura the choice of choosing between the two on equal grounds, though that scenario was met with hostility.

 

Thinking about it now, I believe that is the best and only option Kishimoto can go with if he ever wants a NaruSaku ending. Just remember a some things about SasuSaku if you believe this will be canon; it's the complete opposite of what Kishimoto has shown us what love is. Despite Kakashi silly comments, Kishimoto has remained consistent with the relationships male and females have had in the manga, and I don't recall a relationship other than SasuSaku which depicted such negativity between eachother.

 

This is what SasuSaku fans fail to realise about their ship. SasuSaku has been nothing but negativity from day one. This is not some sh*tty ass Shoujo (or whatever) manga where a boy and a girl got romantically involved, but due to circumstances he left her alone to pursue vengeance and came back a completely different, evil despicable man. That's not what this story is about. Sasuke has made it clear that she is not interested in a romantic relationship with Sakura and such hints that pointed towards that remain non-existent in the source material and is instead complete fabrication and spin developed by rival ships to make their preferred ship look better.

 

I also find it hilarious that some fans are banking on a 3rd party giving Sasuke the talk he needs to reciprocate Sakura's feelings. it never existed and if you need an outside source for it to happen then your pairing is just as weak and crappy as what some seem to think NaruSaku is right now.

 

What SasuSaku represents is the absolute worst kind of relationship you can have and is inconsistent with previous romantic bonds depicted in the manga. This is not positive. None of the other relationships depicted in this manga mirror SasuSaku. Even kittening Kakashi wasn't this cold towards Rin yet he was not interested in her at all.

 

People that decide to stick around should consider that as right now it's looking pretty convincing that it'll be the case if Kishimoto is still planning on NaruSaku. If you still doubt the pairing then take comfort in the fact that regardless of what's happened in this chapter, NaruSaku is still the pairing with the most development out of the big 3 and actually parallels past relationships Kishimoto has shown us in the manga. NaruSaku's relationship has remained consistent with other relationships throughout the entire series. :)

 

If it turns out wrong and SasuSaku becomes the endgame, then just accept that Kishimoto is a crappy writer and shouldn't attempt romance ever again and leave it at that.

 

Peace out.

Edited by Silent Storm, 27 September 2014 - 02:54 AM.

[shisui]

Over 100 pages... Soon, we'll reach chapter 615 in number of replies. I contribute with this one. Keep it going guys.

 

Sarcasm aside, this is going just as I predicted it would. Sakura still loves Sasuke and from the way he reacted, he's not so indifferent to her. I may be mistaken, but beware, the surprises might not be over from his side. It's going to be a true choice in the end for Sakura. Sasuke and Naruto, loving both on equal terms and them loving her back. You know who she's going to choose, too.

 

I'm sorry for everyone who is suffering over this chapter and didn't ask for it, but for those who accused me of being a troll for having this theory, serves you right. SERVES YOU RIGHT.

[Silent Storm]

Over 100 pages... Soon, we'll reach chapter 615 in number of replies. I contribute with this one. Keep it going guys.

 

Sarcasm aside, this is going just as I predicted it would. Sakura still loves Sasuke and from the way he reacted, he's not so indifferent to her. I may be mistaken, but beware, the surprises might not be over from his side. It's going to be a true choice in the end for Sakura. Sasuke and Naruto, loving both on equal terms and them loving her back. You know who she's going to choose, too.

 

I'm sorry for everyone who is suffering over this chapter and didn't ask for it, but for those who accused me of being a troll for having this theory, serves you right. SERVES YOU RIGHT.

 

lol speak of the devil. =P

[AzureWaters]

Going to be honest. I think NaruSaku at this point is unlikely. Kishi wouldn't go this direction at all if he planned on Sakura turning Naruto's way.  He completely made Sakura dependent on Sasuke and love sick. Through Kakashi he's reinforcing that her feelings are something special and deeep~ that should be considered and respected.

I don't expect him to rewind this in what, 10 to 20 chapters. It's just too steep a development.

Edited by AzureWaters, 27 September 2014 - 02:55 AM.

[Michi]

As it's being mentioned here, it's true. I don't see why they are soooo attached to sasuke. Sure, he's part of team 7 & sure he was part of those happy memories. But why are they soooo clingy to him? He doesn't deserve jackkitten...oh yeah. Because of kittening kishi. (8

[BlazingDynamo]

Lets not forget people everyone else is still in the IT and NH is on standby still lets just be happy about that.

[KnS]

I find it interesting people are commenting on this scenario as it's something a member called GoogleIsMyFriend predicted would happen all the way back in April. He said for NaruSaku to be canon Sasuke would have to be redeemed which will then give Sakura the choice of choosing between the two on equal grounds, though that scenario was met with hostility.

 

Many, many people have understood for many years that Sasuke's redemption was necessary for Sakura to honestly choose between Sasuke and Naruto.

 

However, the argument is that it could have been accomplished without the carnage of this chapter.  It will still happen, but it would have been nice if Kishimoto had felt Sasuke's darkness and crap treatment of Sakura and Naruto had been sufficiently proven his need for redemption without having this chapter repeat it all.

 

The Sasuke Must Be Redeemed scenario could easily have been realized without having to sacrifice Sakura's incremental growth, and the moments between NS in the last 100 chapters.  But now it's as if all that stuff never happened.

[shisui]

 

lol speak of the devil. =P

I had good timing this time around. Imagine reading all these pagers. Imagine that.

 

 

Many, many people have understood for many years that Sasuke's redemption was necessary for Sakura to honestly choose between Sasuke and Naruto.

 

However, the argument is that it could have been accomplished without the carnage of this chapter.  It will still happen, but it would have been nice if Kishimoto had felt Sasuke's darkness and crap treatment of Sakura and Naruto had been sufficiently proven his need for redemption without having this chapter repeat it all.

 

The Sasuke Must Be Redeemed scenario could easily have been realized without having to sacrifice Sakura's incremental growth, and the moments between NS in the last 100 chapters.  But now it's as if all that stuff never happened.

 

What incremental growth? The way she became a great medic ninja? The way she became to appreciate Naruto? It's still there. It didn't magically disappear. If you see Sakura outside of the anti-SS pairing goggles, you will see that this is the case.

Edited by GoogleIsMyFriend, 27 September 2014 - 03:03 AM.

[Shadow1275]

The way I saw the whole Sakura "Confession" part was actually her trying to stop Sasuke before he TURNS EVEN MORE AND MORE EVIL and KILL the 5 KAGES and especially NARUTO.

To me, it would be out of her character just to ignore that Naruto is going to die and confess her love so she can be with Sasuke; now thats pathetic.

Look at her expression before she starts crying and stuff, it was an angry (i guess..) expression. Sakura is a KIND girl, she is not going to IGNORE the fact that Sasuke wants to KILL Naruto and the 5 Kages and does his Revolution.

It was still Kishi's writing that made her look like (to many of you) pathetic. I wouldn't blame him though, I'm sure he'll do something about this... This is just purely my opinion.

To me 693 felt like she was trying to appeal to their bond as team 7. She knows that she can't outfight Sasuke so she tried to appeal to their bond. Naruto said that if he and Sasuke fight than they would both die. She doesn't want to lose them. The problem is that besides not having a heart Sasuke severed his bond with Sakura during her first confession. 

 

However, this theory only works if the Mangapanda translation is the closest. The MangaStream one blows everything to bits

[BlazingDynamo]

To me 693 felt like she was trying to appeal to their bond as team 7. She knows that she can't outfight Sasuke so she tried to appeal to their bond. Naruto said that if he and Sasuke fight than they would both die. She doesn't want to lose them. The problem is that besides not having a heart Sasuke severed his bond with Sakura during her first confession. 

 

However, this theory only works if the Mangapanda translation is the closest. The MangaStream one blows everything to bits

That's why I read the MP version instead of the MS version

[Michi]

Right now I'm on a marathon on reading NS fanfics. ...Where the Character development is actually much more decent.

[Candleguy]

I've revised an earlier post into a bigger post to sum up what I think Kishi is thinking:

 

I was not completely taken off guard with the "revelation" that Sakura loves Sasuke and whatnot, it's the confession itself that seemed unsettling. The declaration, Sakura's tears, Sasuke's indifference, the genjutsu.

 

It just seemed wrong, and as a NaruSaku fan I know there's a better alternative for Sakura out there so obviously it was frustrating. I don't think it hurts NaruSaku's chances of being canon however it seems to hurt the perception of the pairing depending on how you look at.

 

Now I get a lot of the complaints but all of it sort of confirms to me that Kishi is playing with perceptions and themes. This is where the readers and

 

Kishi are like ships passing in the night. (Note: I am not saying Kishi is a good writer)

 

Theme:

 

Let's consider that Sakura will not abandon Sasuke while he is in darkness. She won't, Naruto won't.

 

Wrap your head around this if Sakura and Naruto share this similar character trait, consider if Naruto had romantic interest in Sasuke.

 

*Wait a minute SN I'm not talking to yall*

 

Would he have reacted much differently than Sakura has here?

 

See tie Sakura's wish to not abandon Sasuke to darkness with the romantic interest she's had for him for years and from Kishi's POV, considering how he writes his story, it may be highly unlikely Sakura simply moves on from Darkness Sasuke as we all want her to do. It might actually be impossible without having this situation resolved.

 

The big problem is that perhaps the NaruSaku fandom was looking at NaruSaku and thinking it was growing independently from the main plot-line and its themes. This has not been the case, every time NS has gotten to a certain point the problem of Sasuke (Aka the main plot) directly or indirectly showed up and seemingly curbed the relationship.

 

That has to be thematically resolved for both Naruto and Sakura IMO

 

Before I continue very quickly I think NS is the closest to being canon because of but not limited to these reasons

 

1) SS has not been built up at all in fact if it hasn't gotten worse it's just never changed. Kishi has shown no growth in that relationship, unless you consider growth to be well instead of hitting her to knock her out after he rejects her confession Sasuke mind-freaks her now.

 

2) In the climax of the story Hinata is as important as Shino. Her story does not tie into Naruto's life in any truly important or significant way.

 

Perception:

 

Now you might say "I don't buy it there's no way Sakura still being in love with Sasuke is good for NaruSaku."

 

You might be right, I can see how it hurts the pairing in many people eyes

 

But perhaps consider for a moment form Kishi's eyes

 

IMO It should be considered that maybe for good or bad Kishi doesn't want Naruto to "win" just because Sasuke is bad.

 

Now you and I can see that being in love with a mad man like Sasuke is nuts and Sakura should have dropped that a long time ago since Kishi has shown time and time again Sasuke doesn't care. You would imagine if he's building SS he would put a little effort into Sasuke and romance.

 

AND

 

It's to say that it is good writing for certain things to be obviously (plot, character development) set up and perhaps some may argue sacrificed for a complete Naruto "victory"

 

That it may be wise to consider the author feels it would be more meaningful for Naruto to have Sakura fall out of love with redeemed Sasuke.

 

That's my two cents on it

 

[Silent Storm]

 

Many, many people have understood for many years that Sasuke's redemption was necessary for Sakura to honestly choose between Sasuke and Naruto.

 

However, the argument is that it could have been accomplished without the carnage of this chapter.  It will still happen, but it would have been nice if Kishimoto had felt Sasuke's darkness and crap treatment of Sakura and Naruto had been sufficiently proven his need for redemption without having this chapter repeat it all.

 

The Sasuke Must Be Redeemed scenario could easily have been realized without having to sacrifice Sakura's incremental growth, and the moments between NS in the last 100 chapters.  But now it's as if all that stuff never happened.

 

Totally. I hear ya. What happened in this chapter was completely unnecessary and sort of ruined Sakura's character for me.