4869 replies to this topic

[Jenskott]

I wanted to ask how everyone feels about the 'Under the same sky' argument.

Huh? What?

I'm sorry, but I don't know what you are talking about. But if you are refering to the chapters' covers' captions... those aren't written by Kishimoto. They are written by Shonen Jump workers.

And I don't see what the sky has to do with Naruto and NaruHina.

And Hinata looking at the Sun... IIRC, Hyuuga and Hinata grossly mean "in a sunny place" or "in the sun". I don't see the big deal.

Shippers try and look for ANYTHING lets them think character A y B will hook up. They shall watch TV series, comics, books, old legends, philosophical theories... and they will compare them with Naruto, trying finding trends and symbols they can use like proof.

Let's say I have seen SasuHina shippers using the Yamata-no-Orochi and Susano-O legends like SH proof.

It's an utterly meaningless waste of time unless you know the author actually intends using such symbols.

Edit:

A cover's a cover, and side-text typically gets the axe when they publish it in the volumes.

That is what I meant. Those sentences always dissappear in the volumes.

Edited by Jenskott, 19 October 2009 - 08:31 PM.

[Freakazoid]

You mind showing me the "sky" material? I don't recall what you're talking about.

As for the "golden light", it's just a cover, there's no reason to believe that it means anything. Honestly, when you look at a few of the early covers Kishi did, some of them probably were foreshadowing, while others were done because that's what he felt like doing. Let me say this, Sakura hasn't gotten an axe yet, so until that happens, I wouldn't expect illustrations that aren't in the manga to mean that much. A cover's a cover, and side-text typically gets the axe when they publish it in the volumes. It's simple as this, I heavily doubt it holds any weight.

Go to the debate thread on narutofan. N---(you know her) posted the chapter cover. I understand a cover is a cover, and the NS manga evidence heavily outweighs it. I just didn't understand what the point of the sky foreshadowing was on the chapter covers if it ment nothing.

It wasn't just that art on it, it was the words talking about 'Under the same sky'. Now of course that could be a bad translation, or any number of things. It is a point against NS being made though, and I'm wondering about it as well. Tis why I posted the question here, so I could see what everyone has to say about it.

[Froot]

I don't give the whole ''unconsciously'' in love thing much credit. Like Soupy said, it is quite ambiguous and open to personal interpretation. While, yes, it is a nice thought, I don't really want to look into things that the manga hasn't adressed. For all we know, Kishi might not even be thinking about it much. It might just all be coincidence.

Fans like to over-analyze things, skewing the facts based on their own bias. And all of a sudden, someone's own interpretation sticks, and it becomes a theory. People believe that theory, then are surprised when it doesn't quite go the way they'd expected.

Thus, I only look within the manga's boundries, with facts that can be irrefutably proven in the manga. I don't bother with ''well maybe he meant...'' ''or when she said that she secretly...'' etcetera, like how SS fans take Sasuke's ''Thank You,'' which, by the way, is an expression of gratitude only and stretch it into ''I love you,'' or Naruto's ''I like people like you'' and make it ''I've secretly been in love with you all along.''

I wanted to ask how everyone feels about the 'Under the same sky' argument.

It is clearly shown on a chapter cover, and there are 2 manga scenes that can be used as further foreshadowing for this. Plus, we have a chapter cover of Hinata looking towards the sun, and that goes along with the sky thing.

It looks to be pretty clear foreshadowing.

I believe in NaruSaku, but it's slightly odd to have that type of thing if Kishimoto is indeed looking at NS to become canon.

I really wouldn't bother with this one at all. I wouldn't take the covers too seriously, either. I mean, on one cover, it had Might Guy as a drunk on the corner of the street. So... Yeah.

Also, if Kishi wants to draw NaruHina, why wouldn't he do it in the manga, where it really counts?

Another thing - Hinata's not the only one looking to the sky. Sakura is too, on one cover. As is Shikamaru. And Sakura again. And Sasuke, on a volume cover.

So yeah. (Are we thinking of the same argument? Or do I have it all totally wrong?

[Miss Soupy]

Sakura's actions are that she is trying to work with Naruto to fulfill the POAL. It is personal opinion that she is acting like this due to "some dedication to Sasuke". That is a part of it, but it could be the stronger motivation is that she thinks that this is important to Naruto (which it is).

As for the promise itself, Sakura tried to ease Naruto out of it during the hospital scene. "Why're you apologizing?" "It's alright, Naruto..." On a different thread, someone pointed out that if she revoked the promise, especially after Naruto re-emphasized that keeping his word is his shinobi way, would have been like a slap in the face.

Also, you ask "why would Sakura put Naruto through everything still?" What exactly does she know? As the readers, we know the extreme lengths that Naruto is going for the promise. But how would Sakura know, when Naruto hides it and only shows her smiles and good things? That's why Sai's comments hit so hard, she had no idea what was going on when she wasn't around. I've predicted (and still believe) that Sakura is going to raise this issue (Naruto withholding things from her) in the upcoming talk.

For the first part, I don't think it is merely opinion that Sakura has some dedication to Sasuke. Sakura wants to bring Sasuke back, most likely not because she is in love with him, but for his own sake and happiness. The same reason Naruto is dedicated to bringing Sasuke back. However, it is implied that Sakura may be dedicated for love. I say may, because we don't know. Kishi keeps this vague on purpose. You can say easily she might still have feelings for him. You can say she is probably over him. And at this point, we still don't know for sure. Though, I would argue, she seems much more confused now than she did at the start of Part II. In fact, it is not hard to imagine that meeting Sasuke again was what really ended it for her, without a doubt. It was sort of like their second chance, and Sasuke's too, and he still wanted nothing to do with them. But yeah, just my opinion.

For the next part, yeah, I wouldn't expect Sakura to revoke the promise during the hospital scene. I was thinking more during part II. Still, I don't see unconscious love, merely conscious and active care.

The last: It doesn't matter what she knows as far as Naruto's feelings. It is heavily implied that she does know that the promise is a burden on Naruto, that is why she wanted to train to get stronger and help him next time. She realized it soon after making him promise. If she was in love with him, that guilt of burdening Naruto would have come out more, I think. But yeah, I hope Sakura does bring up Naruto's silence. He puts a lot of pressure on himself, which isn't needed.

true enough id never use a fan fic to argue canon. though mine tend to run closer to canon then most =>_o=

PS: id love your opinion on the story and my others when you have the time. LOL

As to the unconsious feeling I dont think it is. my point is based on what she said. we all agree that Kishimoto uses very specific wording in a very specific context. and thats what I base my own hypothesis off of.

Um, confused again. So, you no longer take the stance of 'unconscious feeling'? Does that mean you view it as a conscious feeling of being in love with Naruto?

too many naruhina fans tend to read to deeply into the "I like people like you" and the confession. they tend to "read selectively" or read to deeply into it, and apply meaning to the scene that isnt intended. Im not doing that.

If she was still hung up on Sasuke in that scene she would ahve said very specifically that "Next time we'll go after Sasuke together." not "Next time we'll do it together."

The 'it' implies retrieving Sasuke. Both of those sentences have the same meaning.

Like Yamatos "the strength of your feelings for Naruto" speech it is a very specific wording done in a very specific context.

The fact that this wasn't finished makes it seem like kishi was trolling the big 3 xDDD The pairing wars might be over if Yamato had only finished *_*

I grant that it can be considered somewhat speculative but what moment in the manga isnt open to such speculation? In this case we'll simply agree to disagree.

I dont tend to debate that particular point because as you say as of this moment there is no direct evidence to support the supposition beyond my interpretation of Sakuras words to naruto and her expression of determination at the moment and subsequent events that follow it. But of course all of those have some level of interpretation untill such time as its confirmed via the manga. Its simply my opinion and interpretation base don evidence Ive seen.

My point was there are different levels of speculation. Some may be close to what the author was getting at, some are way off. (Not to say yours is way off either)

Now here i will call you on this one. this is a common naruhina, anti narusaku argument. Why would she do this why would she do that.

you forget that Naruto is not a sakura hand puppet. he does things for himself and is driven by his own needs as well as the promise. Sure Sakura can try and keep him in line from time to time but he is just as driven to bring Sasuke back for himself as he his for her.

Never did I imply this or try to sound anti-narusaku o.O;; You have to look at the characters and think about why they are acting the way they are. Think about what their actions are saying or not saying, or what is just plain confusing. I was showing what I would expect, knowing Sakura's character, for kishi to make the reader see she is in love with him quite early on. I do not see this.

Still we are in agreement that she holds some dedication to Sasuke. this much is true. I still beleive firmly that she has a need to confront Sasuke about the bench scene in chapter 3 before she can mvoe on and actively acknowledge Narutos feelinsgs and pursue a relationship.

I think by now Sakura's old feelings for Sasuke don't really need to be settled. I think the bench scene showed her how Sasuke feels, the rest would be her own inner struggle to move on from him. With the addition of Naruto, she is able to come to terms and move on without having to confront Sasuke about that specific scene.

as to the hospital scene think of it in this image. if we assume a set of balances is Sakuras heart. on one dish is sasuke and the other naruto.

at the ebginning fo aprt 1 its heavilly weighted towards sasuke and becomes even more so after the bench scene. Slowly the balance shifts through the part 1 untill sasuke only has a slight edge over Naruto due to his actions. the hospital scene is the moment when the balance shifts ever so slightly to naruto. it doesnt have to be a direct acknowledgement or even this bright explosions in the sky moment where they suddenly fling eahc other into their arms to acknowledge it.

instead it is a subtle moment like all their moments a simple moment where her statement has the biggest weight and tells the most with only a few words.

I would say this is correct if it was about bonds rather than love XD Naruto's bond became of greater importance to Sakura because they would be working together to bring back Sasuke.

[catsi563]

Um, confused again. So, you no longer take the stance of 'unconscious feeling'? Does that mean you view it as a conscious feeling of being in love with Naruto

No not at all. A conscious feeling would have resulted in a different expression or different wording used. she isnt concious of it yet but the feeling is there.

as you say though its speculation until confirmation and so again an agremeent to disagree.

The 'it' implies retrieving Sasuke. Both of those sentences have the same meaning.

Implied yes confirmed no. remember again yamatos speach according to certian fandoms implies Sakuras confidence issues **rolls on the floor laughing at the abusridty of the argument** as well as Sasukes implied thank you.

The fact that this wasn't finished makes it seem like kishi was trolling the big 3 xDDD The pairing wars might be over if Yamato had only finished *_*

Not at all. As ive argued mutiple times in Anti this scene arguments the wording and context were very specific. he didnt have to finish the speech.

The point of the speech was regarding Sakuras feelings towards Naruto. its what makes so many of the counter arguments so laughable. the notion that the stength of her feelings towards NAruto has anything to do with her confidence.

Never did I imply this or try to sound anti-narusaku o.O;;

didnt imply you were ms Soupy and apologies if it came off like that. wasnt meant to be an indictment of you more of your statement. ((darned boards muddling context))

the thing though is that implying its in Sakuras character to be that way is a very commonly used Anti-NaruSaku argument ((again not saying you are)) its used to show how shallow she still is. and thats just wrong. She is shown to be much deeper in character in part 2 and was neevr really THAT shallow in part 1 as is implied. except where Sasuke is concerned.

It also takes away from the notion that Naruto is doing much of this for his own needs as well.

I think by now Sakura's old feelings for Sasuke don't really need to be settled. I think the bench scene showed her how Sasuke feels, the rest would be her own inner struggle to move on from him. With the addition of Naruto, she is able to come to terms and move on without having to confront Sasuke about that specific scene.

Not so much her feelings towards Sasuke but the actions at the bench scene which lead to those feelings. I thinks he needs to confront Sasuke to ask why he was so gentle and acknowledged her dream and herself and almsot kissed her. this is important because it ((appears to me)) that it may be aprt of what drives her. the wandering why when Sasuke was so distant that hed suddenly turn around and be so nice and loving. and then seemingly forget all about it.

thats whatr Sakura needs to confront him about.

the shock will be when she does and Sasuke tells hert it wasnt him who almsot kissed her. He'll tell her it was Nartuo all along and he was the one who acknowledged it.

thats what i feel like She needs to confront. the notion of a sweet gentle Sasuke which is an illusion created by Naruto.

I would say this is correct if it was about bonds rather than love XD Naruto's bond became of greater importance to Sakura because they would be working together to bring back Sasuke.

I think it is about both to be honest. both bonds and love. still who knows untill confrimation one way or another its best we got.

[Froot]

Discussion over the bench scene, assuming it will ever be brought up again, will certainly be interesting. Sakura will realize that it was Naruto, not Sasuke, who told her those exact words she wanted to hear.

Plus, any preconceived notion Sakura had involving a romantic, sweet Sasuke will be totally obliterated and replaced with the realization that he probably isn't even capable of reading her as well as Naruto did.

[Merger Knight]

Right now there isn't really much to post there. There are enough NS supporters that can easily refute whatever is thrown in there (a lot of what ends up being said by the NH camp is quite easy to prove wrong). The smarter fans are silent waiting for the up-coming talks, I think. But it's quite easy to see as far as proof goes, NaruSaku is leagues ahead of the others (thanks largely to the hug, Naruto confession, and Sakura realization).

which chapter was the confesion in?

[Strangelove]

Discussion over the bench scene, assuming it will ever be brought up again, will certainly be interesting. Sakura will realize that it was Naruto, not Sasuke, who told her those exact words she wanted to hear.

Plus, any preconceived notion Sakura had involving a romantic, sweet Sasuke will be totally obliterated and replaced with the realization that he probably isn't even capable of reading her as well as Naruto did.

If she hasn't realized that, then i would feel really sorry for her...

[Miss Soupy]

@merger knight

ch 457

Edited by Miss Soupy, 20 October 2009 - 01:35 AM.

[Merger Knight]

@merger knight

ch 457

thanks

cant wait til 457 and 458 are aminamted

Edited by Merger Knight, 20 October 2009 - 01:53 AM.

[Strangelove]

It was mostly indirect though lol, and i think Sakura already knew how Naruto felt about her, i mean asking her out on dates, and then sacrificing his own happiness just so he can see her happy again.

[RedDelicious]

Discussion over the bench scene, assuming it will ever be brought up again, will certainly be interesting. Sakura will realize that it was Naruto, not Sasuke, who told her those exact words she wanted to hear.

Some people have raised the idea that Sakura will swoon when/if she finds out that it was Naruto saying the right words in the bench scene. I am thinking it is more likely to be an obstacle, and may torpedo their relationship.

In Part 1, she hated Naruto because she thought he was playing pranks on her to screw up her life. She found out over the course of Part 1 that his motivations/actions were mostly good. The bench scene is an exception. He is clearly pulling a trick, not for her benefit. I think she would be upset at being deceived and having her emotions played with.

Edited by RedDelicious, 20 October 2009 - 10:33 AM.

[MelisaArtemis]

I'm sorry, but I'd have to dosagree with you there. A confession does not make it official. What would make it official would be for Naruto to reciprocate her feelings, and while I don't want to speak too soon, given the evidence in the manga, it doesn't seem very likely that he will. And while I really can't bring SasuSaku into this, since SS/NH go hand in hand, Sakura confessed, but all Sasuke did was dump her on a cold bench. Now, I'm not saying SasuSaku is guaranteed not to happen, just that it's very, very unlikely. A confession does not make up for a lifetime of no interaction.

*sigh* you need to read my previous posts (I think its here, otherwise, check Viz forum debate thread), I already put my argument there that in a confession, whats important is the reaction to it, not the cofession itself. Besides, I'm comparing Sakura and Hinata's action TO Naruto, not how Naruto to either of them. I'm responding to the argument that people gave that Sakura MAY NOT love Naruto.

Ok, to the next one: The Under The Same Sky thing. While I don't remember it quite well, I kinda remember that in that chapter, HINATA is the main point there. basically, its there because she's the main thing that Kishi want to stress on in that chapter: HINATA'S Confession and Action. the cover itself doesn't mean jack, what with Kishi having the issue completely ignore afterward, I'll be inclined to believe that he simply do it for the sake of the moment rather than a significant foreshadowing

Last one for the day: Narusaku bench scene in part one. I think this scene can be taken both way, positively and negatively and for now its pretty open for debate on which one Kishi will choose. Like Red said, Sakura may become offended by the action and think that Naruto was pranking and playing with her feeling. On the other hand, they were at the stage where Naruto was a well known prankster and childish personality, but despite that, he can still say the right thing at the right time when it comes to Sakura. I think that counts a lot, especially now that Sakura is (hopefully) much wiser, she will understand that.

Edited by MelisaArtemis, 20 October 2009 - 12:12 PM.

[RedDelicious]

On the other hand, they were at the stage where Naruto was a well known prankster and childish personality, but despite that, he can still say the right thing at the right time when it comes to Sakura. I think that counts a lot, especially now that Sakura is (hopefully) much wiser, she will understand that.

Yah, I'm hoping it comes out that way. I guess I was thinking of their reunion post-skip. She is getting warm feelings about the new mature Naruto, then freaks out when he is about to do a pervy juitsu. I figured she would have a similar reaction (400 chapters getting to realize that Naruto wasn't being a prankster, then being hit with the knowledge that he was being a prankster during an emotional event in her life). But as you point out, she tends to vent her frustration (with monster strength) and get over it.

[Strangelove]

Last one for the day: Narusaku bench scene in part one. I think this scene can be taken both way, positively and negatively and for now its pretty open for debate on which one Kishi will choose. Like Red said, Sakura may become offended by the action and think that Naruto was pranking and playing with her feeling. On the other hand, they were at the stage where Naruto was a well known prankster and childish personality, but despite that, he can still say the right thing at the right time when it comes to Sakura. I think that counts a lot, especially now that Sakura is (hopefully) much wiser, she will understand that.

Nya!!! ^that

I think that the bench scene might not really be remembered though. Even if it was basically the birth of NaruSaku. [that's when Naruto realized why he liked Sakura, because of her search for acknowledgment.] Am i right? ^^ yus im right. I also wanted to point out that now i have 103 post thus making me a Genin

Edited by Strangelove, 20 October 2009 - 09:52 PM.

[ciardha]

Yah, I'm hoping it comes out that way. I guess I was thinking of their reunion post-skip. She is getting warm feelings about the new mature Naruto, then freaks out when he is about to do a pervy juitsu. I figured she would have a similar reaction (400 chapters getting to realize that Naruto wasn't being a prankster, then being hit with the knowledge that he was being a prankster during an emotional event in her life). But as you point out, she tends to vent her frustration (with monster strength) and get over it.

At this point I just don't see her going that ballistic over that- too much water under the bridge, and she would remember how she felt about Naruto back then. I see more of an eyeroll reaction with an exasperated "Naruto", and then after a minute or so, her smile that she only gives Naruto (Heh, I think he'll leave out the fact that he fled because he was about to have diarrhea. - with her thinking he ran away because he got too nervous.

[Strangelove]

At this point I just don't see her going that ballistic over that- too much water under the bridge, and she would remember how she felt about Naruto back then. I see more of an eyeroll reaction with an exasperated "Naruto", and then after a minute or so, her smile that she only gives Naruto (Heh, I think he'll leave out the fact that he fled because he was about to have diarrhea. - with her thinking he ran away because he got too nervous.

Yeah, if NaruSaku becomes cannon, and that happens again ill lol

[Strangelove]

Im gonna do a double post, but a picture just caught my attention. Has the anti NaruSaku side has brought in the conversation that if Naruto and Sakura had a male baby, he could turn out to have pink hair. Now i think its a joke, but i wanna know what would be your responses, if you already responded on such a post, im sorry, but i wanna know the updates, and im not gonna bother looking for 104 pages.

[catsi563]

itd be a ridiculous argument which id pick apart if I wasnt laughing my arse off at the absurdity of it.

first off the notion of them not being able to be together because theyd have a pink haired male child is silly, many males in anime have odd hair colors much less females and thus the argument is countered due to the trope of odd hair colors in anime beings o prevalent.

secondly. if we assume 2 children 1 male and 1 female it amkes more sence for the female to be blond and the make to have orange or pink hair anyways to counter the parental differences from an authors standpoint.

its a ridiculous argument and another in a long string of ridiculous arguments brought up by a desparate fandom that refuses to believe what logic and the manga tells them.

Edited by catsi563, 22 October 2009 - 12:59 AM.

[Strangelove]

there is also the fact that some genes are more dominant than others. If you cross a potato and a tomato you do not get another tomato, you might get a pomato

Edited by Strangelove, 22 October 2009 - 12:17 AM.