286 replies to this topic

[BakeNeko-Chan]

No resent button please.

--

I also agree with what tricksie said about Obito. And it's all about writing the most tragic past as possible. It feels forcefed because it's a break. It's squeezed into a few chapters, it made me feel disconnected from the plot, like it was seperating. I would prefer to find out stuff like this little by little, leaving more to our imagination. Because we don't have to know everything.

 

I agree, definitely. I was actually one who was excited about Obito being the one under the mask, but I don't care for how he's been handled as a villain, the play for sympathy is very forced on Kishi's part and it also has caused me to feel a bit disconnected with the story and plot as a whole lately. Hopefully that will change.

[arian_rad]

But again what was missing was Naruto's inspiration and in the end she thanked Naruto not Neji.
It was completely Hinata --> Naruto and there was criticism because of it.

Oh I know, I was being sarcastic. My point was that the only benefit she apparently got from neji had more naruto involved in it than neji himself.

[redragon88]

Yeah I'm one of those who honestly hopes Obito won't resurrect any of the ninja who died in the war. As someone already pointed out, it would be the Pein arc all over again, which would be dumb and pointless since the deaths of many characters, such as Inoichi and Shikaku's, were for character development.

(On a side note, I was reading the raw of few chapters ago and I noticed that Naruto refers to Rin as "Rin-chan", that's curious)

 

Really? Well that's just... I don't even know what to think of that.

 

It could just be because Rin was still a kid when she died and the -chan suffix is used for people considerably younger than you (or for affection as done with Sakura).

 

With that being said maybe Naruto's trying to relate to Obito by referring to Rin in the same manner Naruto does with his own love interest, Sakura-chan.

[Shadow1275]

You bought up panels and distort their purpose with your logic by applying a different resolution to a similar case (aka. Sasuke).

You only proved that Kakashi cares about Rin which is obvious and i'm not trying to prove the otherwise, but caring for someome doesnt not mean he has feelings for that person.
Otherwise Naruto should be in love with Hinata because when she jumped into the frontlines along Neji and her father Naruto said her name.

In fact it's you who has to prove the point that Kakashi has romantic feelings for Rin and the part where you say that Kakashi has become now a parallel to Naruto.

 

The manga never showed that he has feelings for Rin whatesover and stated that Kakashi was a parallel to Sasuke, it's not me who has to prove it.

On the contrary, I've already made several things clear. When he addressed Rin it was when she was talking about the romantic feelings she felt for him. But he says, "I used to be the scum who abandoned you." What this means is I can't return those feelings because I am scum who abandoned you. He was telling her why what she wanted, Rin wanted to be in a relationship with Kakashi, could not happen. He felt he was scum and being scum did not deserve her feelings. Notice how there is no mention of Obito right after Rin talks about her feelings for Kakashi. That short exchange had nothing to do with Obito. It was all about Kakashi and Rin's relationship. He did not say, "I don't feel the same way as you." He did not say, "I have to gain power and we are on separate paths." He did not say, "But Obito loved you and you should love only him." Kakashi specifically says, "I used to be the scum who abandoned you."

 

Seeing the above, the only person who has yet to prove anything is you my friend.

Edited by Shadow1275, 14 November 2013 - 08:36 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

On the contrary, I've already made several things clear. When he addressed Rin it was when she was talking about the romantic feelings she felt for him. But he says, "I used to be the scum who abandoned you." What this means is I can't return those feelings because I am scum who abandoned you. He was telling her why what she wanted, Rin wanted to be in a relationship with Kakashi, could not happen. He felt he was scum and being scum did not deserve her feelings. Notice how there is no mention of Obito right after Rin talks about her feelings for Kakashi. That short exchange had nothing to do with Obito. It was all about Kakashi and Rin's relationship. He did not say, "I don't feel the same way as you." He did not say, "I have to gain power and we are on separate paths." He did not say, "But Obito loved you and you should love only him." Kakashi specifically says, "I used to be the scum who abandoned you."

 

Seeing the above, the only person who has yet to prove anything is you my friend.

Rin only said that because Kakashi told her Obito's feelings, you're trying the explain something that only you can see this because kakashi's case is similar to Sasuke's and others.

"sasuke rejected Sakura because he was an avenger and chose another path", it's the same thing the difference is that both of them used different excuses, and neither of them stated they didnt have feelings for the girls.

Kakashi used the fact he tried to abandon her and Sasuke used the fact he was an avenger.

Sasuke rejected Sakura by chosing revenge and at the same time acknowledging her, Kakashi rejected Rin and at the same time opened her eyes giving her the very same development Sakura got on 540.

Following up your logic, it's the same as saying Sasuke might have returned Sakura's feeling if he didnt chose to pursue his revenge.
You're trying to imply that he loves her but didnt wanted to return her feelings because of Obito, and using the fact that Kakashi cares about Rin as some form to back up your claim that they relationship might worked if Obito didnt died.

 

Looks like times have changed huh?, you came claiming that Kakashi loved Rin and their relationship might worked because Kakashi rejected Rin, and it's me that has to prove that kakashi didnt loved Rin back then?
The manga only showed kakashi caring about Rin on some panels and mostly of them were tied up to Obito sounds pretty much inconsistent with someome who suposedly has feelings for Rin.

 

If caring now means that you might love someome, like i said Naruto would end up in a orgy, because he cares for Ino, Sakura, Hinata and we can count fodders too.
Sasuke might has feelings for both Karin and Sakura.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 14 November 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[六道仙人]

Yeah I'm one of those who honestly hopes Obito won't resurrect any of the ninja who died in the war. As someone already pointed out, it would be the Pein arc all over again, which would be dumb and pointless since the deaths of many characters, such as Inoichi and Shikaku's, were for character development.

(On a side note, I was reading the raw of few chapters ago and I noticed that Naruto refers to Rin as "Rin-chan", that's curious)

 

uh.... in which chapter exactly? O.o I didn't notice it.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

@bolded: that is way I don't think Neji will be resurrected, plus only people who are relevant to the plot get resurrected, one could argue that the reason all those who died in the Pain arc were resurrected we because Kakashi was among them, as we've seen Kakashi was still important to the plot, so Nagato using Rinne Tensei to revive everyone who died in the arc was better for the story then juts resurrecting Kakashi, because if Nagato was just going to resurrect one person why not resurrect Jiraiya, who was important to both him and Naruto.

I'm half in half into this, Neji might have give development to Naruto but it was the very very same thing Naruto said on the begining on the fight against Obito after he broke the mask(i wont give up because i lot of people died in order for me to succeed and then Obito asks what they would feel if Naruto fails), it only reinforced something that he already stated.

Sometimes i think why Kishi did kill Neji, it was just to give panel for Hinata to shine or some sort of real development?
Because being honest the many times i look at that chapter the more i realize it's crap.

That why sometimes just becuase how crappy it was and how weak the purpose of Neji's death was that makes me think that he will be ressurrected despite not wanting that for happen.
( we got more panels on Hinata's speech than on his death)

And being honest worse things have happened on this arc than like ressurrecting the ninjas who died on the battlefield.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 14 November 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[KnS]

Bolded: I think now might be a good time to hook up to those guys down my street to abduct you....   

 

LOL  Dude, I would love to write a story like that if I had the time, but abduction won't help.  Between my step-brother's death, both my parents undergoing life-threatening surgery, and my own issues... writing has been a very distant non-priority.  It's nice to know that you think it might be worth a kidnapping, though.  Thanks for that.

 

About Minato, I understand what you're saying.  I get the whole Responsible Sensei thing.  But as a reader, it doesn't make it any easier to endure.  It's absolutely distasteful to see a guy like Minato -- who lost villager lives under his watch, lost his wife, nearly lost his newborn son, then had to seal the Kyubi into same newborn son, then lost his own life -- groveling (there's no better word) at Obito's miserably petulant, pathetically selfish, undeserving feet.

 

The truth is, the Third did everything he could to dissuade Orochimaru from his chosen path, short of killing him.  Kakashi did his best with Sasuke, too.  Minato thought Obito was dead.  What was he supposed to do for Obito that he didn't do or wouldn't have done had he known -- and, you know, been ALIVE to do for his student?  There's a point where natural regret becomes a humiliating labor to take responsibility that isn't yours to take.

 

We saw in flashbacks that Minato was especially caring toward Obito, and encouraged him to not only reach his dream of becoming Hokage but of winning Rin's heart.  Minato's reward for that support and devotion was a dead wife, a threatened son who became doomed to contain the Kyubi, a threatened village, and his own death.

 

Kakashi seems to be the only sensei who has had a rational -- and timely -- response to a student choosing the dark path, despite his wish that he had another option.

 

Still that doesnt tell that Kakashi loved Rin back then, there's no fact on the manga whatesover that implies it, it sucks because it's like debating something that doesnt exist.

 

(...)

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to spend a lot of time on this discussion, but I do want to say that this post from Shadow1275 is exactly what I was talking about:

 

On the contrary, I've already made several things clear. When he addressed Rin it was when she was talking about the romantic feelings she felt for him. But he says, "I used to be the scum who abandoned you." What this means is I can't return those feelings because I am scum who abandoned you. He was telling her why what she wanted, Rin wanted to be in a relationship with Kakashi, could not happen. He felt he was scum and being scum did not deserve her feelings. Notice how there is no mention of Obito right after Rin talks about her feelings for Kakashi. That short exchange had nothing to do with Obito. It was all about Kakashi and Rin's relationship. He did not say, "I don't feel the same way as you." He did not say, "I have to gain power and we are on separate paths." He did not say, "But Obito loved you and you should love only him." Kakashi specifically says, "I used to be the scum who abandoned you."

 

As Shadow1275 clearly points out, the details between Kakashi and Rin are not the same as those between Sasuke and Sakura. The circumstances are different, and Kakashi's words and actions toward Rin are different in tone and meaning than Sasuke's words and actions toward Sakura.  Your claims of flawed logic and double standards are invalidated by the fact that the two situations are NOT THE SAME.  The so-called "parallels" are not all that parallel, and in my opinion this is one of the ways that the dynamic of Team Minato was different than Team 7.

 

I accept that you hold a very specific, very black and white interpretation of all this and that's cool.  I'm honestly not interested in trying to change your mind -- especially not when you label my views "completely ridiculous."

[sushi.]

I think taking the blame out on yourself is kind of like a "shinobi-thing" in this manga. It really bothers me because it is a problem and not portrayed as such.

 

So victim-blaming is considered noble, humble and honourable, especially if you are the victim.

Is it bragging and arrogance to you place oneself higher than that? That is honestly my impression of it.

[Shadow1275]

Rin only said that because Kakashi told her Obito's feelings, you're trying the explain something that only you can see this because kakashi's case is similar to Sasuke's and others.

"sasuke rejected Sakura because he was an avenger and chose another path", it's the same thing the difference is that both of them used different excuses, and neither of them stated they didnt have feelings for the girls.

Kakashi used the fact he tried to abandon her and Sasuke used the fact he was an avenger.

Sasuke rejected Sakura by chosing revenge and at the same time acknowledging her, Kakashi rejected Rin and at the same time opened her eyes giving her the very same development Sakura got on 540.

Following up your logic, it's the same as saying Sasuke might have returned Sakura's feeling if he didnt chose to pursue his revenge.
You're trying to imply that he loves her but didnt wanted to return her feelings because of Obito, and using the fact that Kakashi cares about Rin as some form to back up your claim that they relationship might worked if Obito didnt died.

 

Looks like times have changed huh?, you came claiming that Kakashi loved Rin and their relationship might worked because Kakashi rejected Rin, and it's me that has to prove that kakashi didnt loved Rin back then?
The manga only showed kakashi caring about Rin on some panels and mostly of them were tied up to Obito sounds pretty much inconsistent with someome who suposedly has feelings for Rin.

 

If caring now means that you might love someome, like i said Naruto would end up in a orgy, because he cares for Ino, Sakura, Hinata and we can count fodders too.
Sasuke might has feelings for both Karin and Sakura.

 it's the same as saying Sasuke might have returned Sakura's feeling if he didnt chose to pursue his revenge.

 

I think you missed my entire point on comparing Sasuke turning down Sakura to Kakashi turning down Rin. Sasuke acknowledged her kindness to him, but the whole point of the Sasuke retrieval arc was for Sasuke to sever the bonds he had made with everyone except Naruto. Remember that last scene, Naruto could have easily punched Sasuke in the chest, but instead he chose to scratch his headband. Sasuke himself admitted that his reason for fighting was to sever that bond. Naruto proved he was Sasuke's equal, which is why Sasuke could not bring himself to kill him later on like he tried to with Sakura during the land of the iron. I suggest you re-read part 2. If you look closely, you'll notice that the entire time whenever Sasuke and Sakura are in a panel together he flat out ignores her or tries to kill her. Even when he turns "good" he barely gives her any of his time. As opposed to Naruto who is the only person alive that he seems to care about. It's easy to see that he never had romantic feelings for Sakura and flat-out rejected her when he left Konoha. That is a true rejection.

 

Kakashi on the other hand did not say anything showing that he did not care. Consider their exchange. Kakashi tells Rin that Obito loved her. Then Rin says, "Then Kakashi my feelings." And then he calls himself trash. Kakashi just told Rin that Obito loved her. Why would she tell him her feelings for him? Because she is saying that despite Obito's feelings she does not want Obito, she wants Kakashi. But, if Obito's feelings for Rin are the reason Kakashi turns her down, or if Kakashi doesn't feel the same why does he simply not say so? Why does he call himself scum? Trash? Because he feels that he doesn't deserve her. Which means that he does have similar feelings for her.

 

opened her eyes giving her the very same development Sakura got on 540.

 

Rin didn't get any kind of 540 development at all. When are we shown at any point her getting over Kakashi? Or thinking of Kakashi burning in a bunch of black flames? Obito himself even stated that she chose to be killed by Kakashi bc she wanted to die protecting the ones that she loved by the hand of the one she loved[which Kakashi did not deny]. Until we see any kind of indication that her feelings changed at all, there is nothing supporting this statement.

 

kakashi's case is similar to Sasuke's

 

Now, Kakashi is a weak parallel of Sasuke to begin with. As I have shown above, Sasuke flat out rejected Sakura to the point where he severed his bond with her. In other words, he couldn't care less if she lived or died. Kakashi still visits Rin's grave to talk to her after he died. He even went to her first when he heard that Naruto was being born even before going to his close friend Obito's grave.

 

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/607/8

 

The manga only showed kakashi caring about Rin on some panels and mostly of them were tied up to Obito sounds pretty much inconsistent with someome who suposedly has feelings for Rin.

 

While considering they were on the same team and much of the plot revolves around Rin dying which Obito was present for then of course. But my point still stands. Those 2 panels where Kakashi addresses Rin's confession of her feelings has no mention of Obito whatsoever. Only him addressing why what Rin wants can't happen.

 

But like KnS said, I'm done here. I've made my points and backed them up sufficiently with evidence and logic that doesn't include "Your views are completely ridiculous." I think I'll chalk this one up as a win and call it a day debating wise.

Edited by Shadow1275, 15 November 2013 - 02:26 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

 

Kakashi on the other hand did not say anything showing that he did not care. Consider their exchange. Kakashi tells Rin that Obito loved him. Then Rin says, "Then Kakashi my feelings." And then he calls himself trash. Kakashi just told Rin that Obito loved her. Why would she tell him her feelings for him? Because she is saying that despite Obito's feelings she does not want Obito, she wants Kakashi. But, if Obito's feelings for Rin are the reason Kakashi turns her down, or if Kakashi doesn't feel the same why does he simply not say so? Why does he call himself scum? Trash? Because he feels that he doesn't deserve her. Which means that he does have similar feelings for her.

 

 

Anyway i'll just respond to that and put my views and yes i read your entire post.

 

It's doesnt make any sense, it's the same as saying that Sakura truly loves Naruto because she felt unworthy of Naruto's feelings on the summit and you know very well that she loved Sasuke back then.

 

 

About Sasuke and Sakura

Sasuke did tried to kill her, Sasuke did bad things to her yes and Kakashi betrayed her, Kakashi was going to leave her behind if wasnt Obito and god knows what would those freaks have done to her while she thinking that Kakashi would save her mounted on a white horse, it's not a matter of feelings unworthy but a matter of doing the right thing, if Kakashi had feelings for her, Kishi would have certainly showed off, he felt more Obito's death way more than Rin's, he did care about Rin but i never pointed out that he doesnt, i dont get from where you picked up this.

Kaka/Rin is similar to Sasu/Saku, kishi showed both Sasuke and Kakashi as guys that those girls doesnt deserve, both of them did horrible things to the girls, both of them are depicted as some sort of obstacle on their lives, obth of them are used to show that you should not love a guy because he's cool or strong but because of their personality and the things they do to her and it's enforced by kakashi's reply and Sakura get 540 with Sai telling her that naruto loved her, both of them leads to the same purpose.

The purpose of moving on.

 

Opened her eyes

Rin didnt stated it, it was Obito and was kind of understandable he doing that kind of statement becasue like Naruto he believe she loved only Kakashi, that was the reason he dropped his confession anyway, and most importantly, when she died she didnt smiled and neither even said something to Kakashi, if you're going to die at the hands of your loved one why you wont make any kind of last words or at least smile.

Kishi let the whole Rin thing open, i believe she loved Kakashi yet because it wasnt show that she loves Obito but cant forgot serious strong hints that was left behind like on the end of Kakashi Gaiden it was show her looking at the stars, and the fact that Kakashi's quote was meant for her to move on.

Sakura is also into this, she still loves Sasuke until she states that she doesnt love him anymore or that she loves Naruto.

 

Kakashi and Sasuke

No it's not, Sasuke's development is not done and you know it very well, both Sasuke and Kakashi are guys who does dirty stuff, the fact that Sasuke is still on another path doesnt make their parallel weaker, they both have so many similarities and their story is also tied equally in some parts.

He was like sasuke outrightly going to kill Obito.
Both Kakashi and Sasuke understands their friends and cares more about them, just look at how Sasuke relate to Naruto.

 

The last paragraph

" backed them up sufficiently with evidence and logic that doesn't include "Your views are completely ridiculous.""

i'll reply with this "Because he feels that he doesn't deserve her. Which means that he does have similar feelings for her."

And you bought up panels like 607 which doesnt prove nothing other than that he cares about her which i stated million of times.

Because of this i can pick up 613 and say that Naruto will return Hinata's feelings because he cares about her.

It's like picking up the panel where Sakura calls Naruto a fool for loving her and claim that Sakura does have the same feelings Naruto has for her, instead of picking up panels like the hug, or the bridge scene.

 

 

 

 

 

As Shadow1275 clearly points out, the details between Kakashi and Rin are not the same as those between Sasuke and Sakura. The circumstances are different, and Kakashi's words and actions toward Rin are different in tone and meaning than Sasuke's words and actions toward Sakura.  Your claims of flawed logic and double standards are invalidated by the fact that the two situations are NOT THE SAME.  The so-called "parallels" are not all that parallel, and in my opinion this is one of the ways that the dynamic of Team Minato was different than Team 7.

 

I accept that you hold a very specific, very black and white interpretation of all this and that's cool.  I'm honestly not interested in trying to change your mind -- especially not when you label my views "completely ridiculous."

 

1 -> Team 7 and Minato dynamic.

Was the same, obvious some little things are different much like Jiraiya's team had too.
But they set up same things like

Love : Naruto/Sakura/Sasuke Obito/Rin/Kakashi

Similar dinamics while pass the very same resolution, Rin should value herself and be with a better guy, and that she should not love the guy just because he's cool or a strong ninja but based on other values.

 

Nakama : Naruto and Sasuke with Obito and Kakashi

I dont need to explain this.

Teacher : the whole i'll protect my students and etc...

Kishi uses parallels as some sort of to point out the flaws, and the next generation is meant to surpass it.

 

Dream : Peace Hokage.

 

2 - "Your claims of flawed logic and double standards are invalidated by the fact that the two situations are NOT THE SAME. "

i'm not the one who's doing double standards, the ones are you and shadow using the whole "he feels that he doesnt deserve her, then Kakashi feels the same way".
Letting behind implying that Sasuke also might have feelings for Sakura becuase he literally did the very same thing, no matter how you try to nitpick, the reject is almost the same, with different excuse, it would be different if Sasuke said "i dont love you Sakura" but not.

 

It's the same thing as saying Sasuke would certainly return Sakura's feelings if he wasnt an avenger, it's the very same argument SS uses to say that SS will be canon at the end of the manga and you guys use this argument to argue that Kakashi had feelings for Rin.

This is what i dont understand.

 

 

3-"I accept that you hold a very specific, very black and white interpretation of all this and that's cool.  I'm honestly not interested in trying to change your mind -- especially not when you label my views "completely ridiculous.""

Am i being simplist? Am i the one briging up panels where Kakashi cares about Rin which i stated millions of times and you guys simply ignore it by saying those stuff and then come saying "doesnt simply label my views as ridiculous" i point out some very very strong double standards that you guys are commiting and you doesnt even respond like completely ignoring, i simply demanded a panel where Kakashi shows he feels the same way towards Rin and you guys came with this.

 

"Because he feels that he doesn't deserve her. Which means that he does have similar feelings for her."

You guys are only proving that Kakashi cares about Rin a topic that is not being discussed.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 15 November 2013 - 01:23 AM.

[rocci]

Huff
Tobi : darth vader (starwars episode 4,5,6)
Obito : anakin (starwars episode 1,2,3)
Taming Kurama : how to train your dragon
Pain arc aka peace & the chosen one : the matrix trilogy

Kishi take the inspiration from Hollywood movie. As long as is not transformer, than I'm okay.

[咲耶姫]

 

uh.... in which chapter exactly? O.o I didn't notice it.

 

I don't know from which raw version it is because, from the one I saw, he calls her just Rin (リンって人 "The person called Rin"):

 

Chapter 653

 

I'd like to see LadyGT's raw. I wonder which one is accurate. Not like it was important though. 

Edited by 咲耶姫, 15 November 2013 - 03:56 AM.

[Cherry-Bloss93]

So... Who else wants this war to be over with?

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[Atheck]

There's nothing left after this war past the final Naruto and Sasuke confrontation. Wanting to expedite the final events of this war would result in a lesser quality pay off for all of the tension and conflict that has been gradually building since the beginning of said arc. Every antagonist besides Madara and Black Zetsu have received their climax. I hope Kishi will have the decency and consistency to extend the same development for those two (development doesn't have to refer to redemption, but a greater amount of time to properly flesh them out and address their conflicts in a meaningful and sufficient manner).

Edited by Atheck, 15 November 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[rocci]

Unless naruto mega rasenshuleeken can destroy the tree, than the war will not end in just two or three chapter.

[咲耶姫]

Well now that Obito is being redeemed, the war is coming near its end, the only vilain left is Madara and I don't think it will take too much time, he has his own conflicts with Hashirama and Hashirama is here so they will surely solve their conflict and once it will be done, I'm sure Sasuke wil reveal his true intentions and that's certainly how the final arc will come into place. 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

There's nothing left after this war past the final Naruto and Sasuke confrontation. Wanting to expedite the final events of this war would result in a lesser quality pay off for all of the tension and conflict that has been gradually building since the beginning of said arc. Every antagonist besides Madara and Black Zetsu have received their climax. I hope Kishi will have the decency and consistency to extend the same development for those two (development doesn't have to refer to redemption, but a greater amount of time to properly flesh them out and address their conflicts in a meaningful and sufficient manner).

There's still Orochimaru to deal with aside from the obvious powerup Orochijackson will give to Sasuke.

 

 

Huff
Tobi : darth vader (starwars episode 4,5,6)
Obito : anakin (starwars episode 1,2,3)
Taming Kurama : how to train your dragon
Pain arc aka peace & the chosen one : the matrix trilogy

Kishi take the inspiration from Hollywood movie. As long as is not transformer, than I'm okay.

 

I think he didnt take any inspiration unless the ones he already said about HxH, Dragon ball and etc...
i believe the problem is that it's kinda very very hard to be original those days, every kind of aspect was already been explored, how many times we saw a "chosen one" being explored, Naruto x Sasuke bond i've see this from different mangas and even movies.

Naruto being orphan we saw this on many many types of stories, literally most the shounen heroes are orphans for some reason, or have a family but doesnt know about them.

When Kishi showed that tree, people came with so many interpretatons like Gaia, Jesus Christ, Virgin Mary, Grandia and Caralhos Aquáticos.

 

The love triangle, the tsundere girl who initially hates the nice guy and like the "a**hole", Naruto being stupid, being oblivious to romance and many many concepts.

I like Gintama because of the way it parodies those standards.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 15 November 2013 - 12:36 PM.

[Strangelove]

I never see it to be equal and being honest people cant distinguish between caring from love.

 

Mhmm...hopefully we aren't making the same mistake ourselves...

[BakeNeko-Chan]

So... Who else wants this war to be over with?

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I think everyone.