Naruto 630
Started by Nostradamus, May 15 2013 06:09 AM
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#181
Tokura Misaki
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:52 AM
#182
Gravenimage
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:56 AM
QUOTE (sakutonaru @ May 15 2013, 03:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah I'll be looking forward when Minato sees Sakura act and behave and he will Naruto the famous quote of" she reminds me of Kushina" yeah I'm eagerly waiting that I just know Kishi will do to tease.
Edited by Gravenimage, 15 May 2013 - 10:56 AM.
Gravenimage
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#183
redragon88
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:01 AM
@Chatte
Go figure people would start trying to downsize the Sakura's moment in this chapter by attempting to compare it with 615.
In one hand it doesn't even matter since Sakura still has even more development at hand, and on the other they're already twisting the sentences in their favor. It's rather pathetic.
They're omitting how Sakura said she would be together with Naruto, they're omitting how Hinata said she would stop chasing him after the war, and they're using the mangastream translation of 615 as an example when it's pretty known that they're pretty liberal with the way they choose to write up the dialog.
If someone has their shipping goggle on it's them. It's quite sad that they aren't even aware of how silly they look right now.
Go figure people would start trying to downsize the Sakura's moment in this chapter by attempting to compare it with 615.
In one hand it doesn't even matter since Sakura still has even more development at hand, and on the other they're already twisting the sentences in their favor. It's rather pathetic.
They're omitting how Sakura said she would be together with Naruto, they're omitting how Hinata said she would stop chasing him after the war, and they're using the mangastream translation of 615 as an example when it's pretty known that they're pretty liberal with the way they choose to write up the dialog.
If someone has their shipping goggle on it's them. It's quite sad that they aren't even aware of how silly they look right now.
#184
Codus N
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:16 AM
QUOTE (StriderC @ May 15 2013, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. And how much "personal development" has Sakura gotten compared to her team? Better yet, what do you consider personal development? Let me grasp this before I delve any further here.
2. I said exactly what I felt at that given time and that's not gonna change. Just because it wasn't written in my comment doesn't mean it's out of sight. I'm not worried about the bad right now to be perfectly honest because Sakura's finally doing something. Even if something bad happens, that's not gonna stop me from disliking a chapter. I've thought about the possibility of Sakura getting injured and everything in between but because I'm uber excited about the possibilities of what's to come. Another thing you should take note of. BAD possibilities can still very well be AWESOME. I love angst. Loved that confession Sakura made given it gave us a lot to talk about. It was bittersweet. Good AND bad, and yet, still VERY AWESOME.
2. I said exactly what I felt at that given time and that's not gonna change. Just because it wasn't written in my comment doesn't mean it's out of sight. I'm not worried about the bad right now to be perfectly honest because Sakura's finally doing something. Even if something bad happens, that's not gonna stop me from disliking a chapter. I've thought about the possibility of Sakura getting injured and everything in between but because I'm uber excited about the possibilities of what's to come. Another thing you should take note of. BAD possibilities can still very well be AWESOME. I love angst. Loved that confession Sakura made given it gave us a lot to talk about. It was bittersweet. Good AND bad, and yet, still VERY AWESOME.
1. Well, for one her Sasori fight was a HUGE leap from her part I self. Then the H&E incident, was a huge leap in terms of her relationship with Naruto. Pain arc showed a smidge of her leadership capabilities, 5 Kage Summit arc showed her resolve to try and make things better for Naruto (although it backfired spectacularly). Kakashi?? let's see, trained Naruto for FRS and took down one of Pain's bodies and resolved to kill Sasuke at Kage summit. That's it. The biggest problem with those developments of Kakashi's is that none of it touch the core of Kakashi's character (his guilt complex). Sakura did well to overcome her inferiority complex which is one of her core characteristics. (she still has it, but if you compare her to her Part I self, I'd say she has gotten over her inferiority complex that she suffered 3 years prior.)
Only now we are getting his personal character development as a whole as his guilt complex has crept back right up his ass the moment Obito's face was revealed. This is the moment where he can finally get over his complex and come to terms with it. It's great to see Sakura shine right now, but this is the final development for Kakashi. That's why I'd rather see more of Kakashi instead of Sakura. Kakashi's character needs the spotlight more now than ever.
2. Very well. Point taken.
QUOTE (Atheck @ May 15 2013, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What an interesting chapter. As with everyone else the primary interest was seeing how Sakura was able to encourage everyone to continue fighting regardless of the severity of the situation. It has been a considerably long period since she received any noteworthy screen time and this chapter truly was a welcome addition. To see Sakura providing her words in that manner makes this chapter very much worth the wait. Then there is the final segment of the chapter where Minato appears next to her and Naruto; the man who is literally Naruto's father, the 4th Hokage, and probably one of only a few individuals who could provide some potential insight into who Naruto will end up with (there is the most logical possibility of NS but having the father of one of the parents reinforce it by giving their support would be tremendously beneficial). Sakura, you can not relent with healing alone. Your contribution here will overtake those of others, I believe, as it functions for an astronomically more significant purpose of resuscitating Naruto, but do not stop there. Please Kishi, allow her the honour of fighting here as it has been so long since we last witnessed Sakura in combat.
To be quite honest, Sakura is beginning to resemble Tsunade quite a bit with her restoring Naruto's chakra in that posture she has.
Sakura's amazingness aside, was anyone else disappointed to see that the rest of the alliance was not in rendered unconscious as many presumed them to be? To see the amount of shinobi within the alliance gradually diminish over the course of the battle really contributed to the hopelessness of the situation and it really emphasized their weakening, but unfaltering resistance. Of course that ambiance is still there, it's just not as effective as it would have been had that small barricade of shinobi had truly been the final line of defense before Naruto. However, that may have potentially given Hinata even more exorbitant amounts of screen time, depriving others such as Ino of theirs in the process, so perhaps this was for the best.
Oh yes, that brings me to another point. Was anyone else disturbed by the easiness of everyone learning a Doton ninjutsu? Of course it was merely a basic technique but from my interpretation of Kakashi's explanation of elemental manipulation it appeared as though that the element in question needed to be the potential user's own type. Without that natural proclivity they would be unable to learn how to harness that element. Well that notion was apparently incorrect. I cannot say that it didn't feel as though that the value of elemental exclusivity was cheapened with this chapter. For Naruto it required days and the usage of a highly dangerous training technique to understand how to finally utilize his element. Yet now we are supposed to believe that everyone is capable of performing a particular form of manipulation without any prior training? I believe Kishi made an inaccuracy in this regard; or at the very least it undermines the value of elemental exclusivity and all of those who had to train arduously just to learn how to use their elements.
Tobi versus Kakashi has become an incessant exchange of ideological and moral rhetoric. There is a time for character and plot development but considering that this a shonen I believe that fighting should assume some level of precedence. The again, this is definitely one of the most important and sensitive situations in the entire manga. Tobi is the entire reason that events began as they did in the first place.
Well on an unrelated note it seems like Tobi's "hole" may not be a illusion at all. That is unless Tobi layered an additional genjutsu on top of the one he created with Rin and his younger self to tempt Kakashi. Which brings me to yet another point. Tobi really is placing value in the opinion of his former comrade. Here he is endeavouring to persuade Kakashi that the world they currently reside in is wrought with nothing but turmoil and affliction. Of course Kakashi is rejecting it but it truly exemplifies the contradiction in Tobi's previous statement about not being concerned with anyone's opinion; believing them to be an artificial construct that is not the original variants of themselves. It has since been made perfectly clear that he does value it. Whether that is a product of malice towards Kakashi or subconscious endearment for his previous friend is unclear.
I can't deny that there isn't any validity to Tobi's statement. At least when it comes to himself. Kakashi has companions, a life, and a future. Tobi has none of those things. He has essentially devoted his entire life to the Moon's Eye Plan and the aspirations which Madara influenced him to look towards. In the process he created a terrorist organization that has put the stability of the nations in jeopardy, instigated a full scale war against all five great nations, and has brought about the deaths of thousands. Even if the alliance were to implement into political/judicial/military practice Naruto's ideals that would not and should not exonerate a man who is basically the entire reason for the most significant detriments occurring today (following Madara and the Older Son's actions of course). I mean could anyone actually picture Tobi giving up his plans which he has been striving for for decades and simply returning to Konoha without any protest being made? What or who would he have left to return to?
Kakashi references his companions, that a person should take into consideration their feelings. Well then what about Tobi's? That notion goes both ways. The only arguing point that Kakashi has at that moment is majority opinion and when I was last aware none of them were Tobi's friends. The closest thing to friends that he's had for most of his life are a dualistic plant monster with a bad habit of making jokes related to bowel movements, a traumatized genocidal man who believed he was god, a deluded murderous shark man who was ironically looking to achieve the opposite of what he was espousing for, his assisting partner in the Uchiha massacre who was actually attempting to thwart his plans, two immortal freaks that he never really interacted with, a woman who was also severely traumatized by war but who was more interested in reinforcing the fantasies of her childhood companion, and lastly a sociopathic bomber who constantly berated and attacked him while treating him like an inferior. Mind you, most of these people are now dead and even when they were all still alive Tobi was assuming the persona of a naive recruit who had only just joined so the amount of people that he might have befriended from those referenced would have decreased further. Of course there's also the issue that several of them were either untrustworthy spies like Itachi or defectors like Nagato and Konan who didn't care much for Tobi's opinion when they assumed their moral positions.
Tobi was definitely considering their opinions when he persuaded some like Kisame and Nagato to join. In fact when it comes to Kisame and Zetsu it appears that they both may have been fully aware of the MEP and consented to helping regardless. Knowing that you have nothing left but the idealistic rhetoric of someone whom you knew almost twenty years ago. Knowing that everyone else that you befriended or were associated with has been killed, I can't blame Tobi entirely for wanting to achieve the illusion world. The entire world is against him now and excluding Kakashi, possibly Black Zetsu as well if he's still alive, there's no one remaining who he cares about (if he even cares about Zetsu in the first place). He's got nothing left to lose.
Nice to see Killer Bee BTW. The fact that Minato has appeared on the battlefield has just opened up a myriad of possibilities since the two of them are now on the same side. Fate has a funny way of presenting itself.
To be quite honest, Sakura is beginning to resemble Tsunade quite a bit with her restoring Naruto's chakra in that posture she has.
Sakura's amazingness aside, was anyone else disappointed to see that the rest of the alliance was not in rendered unconscious as many presumed them to be? To see the amount of shinobi within the alliance gradually diminish over the course of the battle really contributed to the hopelessness of the situation and it really emphasized their weakening, but unfaltering resistance. Of course that ambiance is still there, it's just not as effective as it would have been had that small barricade of shinobi had truly been the final line of defense before Naruto. However, that may have potentially given Hinata even more exorbitant amounts of screen time, depriving others such as Ino of theirs in the process, so perhaps this was for the best.
Oh yes, that brings me to another point. Was anyone else disturbed by the easiness of everyone learning a Doton ninjutsu? Of course it was merely a basic technique but from my interpretation of Kakashi's explanation of elemental manipulation it appeared as though that the element in question needed to be the potential user's own type. Without that natural proclivity they would be unable to learn how to harness that element. Well that notion was apparently incorrect. I cannot say that it didn't feel as though that the value of elemental exclusivity was cheapened with this chapter. For Naruto it required days and the usage of a highly dangerous training technique to understand how to finally utilize his element. Yet now we are supposed to believe that everyone is capable of performing a particular form of manipulation without any prior training? I believe Kishi made an inaccuracy in this regard; or at the very least it undermines the value of elemental exclusivity and all of those who had to train arduously just to learn how to use their elements.
Tobi versus Kakashi has become an incessant exchange of ideological and moral rhetoric. There is a time for character and plot development but considering that this a shonen I believe that fighting should assume some level of precedence. The again, this is definitely one of the most important and sensitive situations in the entire manga. Tobi is the entire reason that events began as they did in the first place.
Well on an unrelated note it seems like Tobi's "hole" may not be a illusion at all. That is unless Tobi layered an additional genjutsu on top of the one he created with Rin and his younger self to tempt Kakashi. Which brings me to yet another point. Tobi really is placing value in the opinion of his former comrade. Here he is endeavouring to persuade Kakashi that the world they currently reside in is wrought with nothing but turmoil and affliction. Of course Kakashi is rejecting it but it truly exemplifies the contradiction in Tobi's previous statement about not being concerned with anyone's opinion; believing them to be an artificial construct that is not the original variants of themselves. It has since been made perfectly clear that he does value it. Whether that is a product of malice towards Kakashi or subconscious endearment for his previous friend is unclear.
I can't deny that there isn't any validity to Tobi's statement. At least when it comes to himself. Kakashi has companions, a life, and a future. Tobi has none of those things. He has essentially devoted his entire life to the Moon's Eye Plan and the aspirations which Madara influenced him to look towards. In the process he created a terrorist organization that has put the stability of the nations in jeopardy, instigated a full scale war against all five great nations, and has brought about the deaths of thousands. Even if the alliance were to implement into political/judicial/military practice Naruto's ideals that would not and should not exonerate a man who is basically the entire reason for the most significant detriments occurring today (following Madara and the Older Son's actions of course). I mean could anyone actually picture Tobi giving up his plans which he has been striving for for decades and simply returning to Konoha without any protest being made? What or who would he have left to return to?
Kakashi references his companions, that a person should take into consideration their feelings. Well then what about Tobi's? That notion goes both ways. The only arguing point that Kakashi has at that moment is majority opinion and when I was last aware none of them were Tobi's friends. The closest thing to friends that he's had for most of his life are a dualistic plant monster with a bad habit of making jokes related to bowel movements, a traumatized genocidal man who believed he was god, a deluded murderous shark man who was ironically looking to achieve the opposite of what he was espousing for, his assisting partner in the Uchiha massacre who was actually attempting to thwart his plans, two immortal freaks that he never really interacted with, a woman who was also severely traumatized by war but who was more interested in reinforcing the fantasies of her childhood companion, and lastly a sociopathic bomber who constantly berated and attacked him while treating him like an inferior. Mind you, most of these people are now dead and even when they were all still alive Tobi was assuming the persona of a naive recruit who had only just joined so the amount of people that he might have befriended from those referenced would have decreased further. Of course there's also the issue that several of them were either untrustworthy spies like Itachi or defectors like Nagato and Konan who didn't care much for Tobi's opinion when they assumed their moral positions.
Tobi was definitely considering their opinions when he persuaded some like Kisame and Nagato to join. In fact when it comes to Kisame and Zetsu it appears that they both may have been fully aware of the MEP and consented to helping regardless. Knowing that you have nothing left but the idealistic rhetoric of someone whom you knew almost twenty years ago. Knowing that everyone else that you befriended or were associated with has been killed, I can't blame Tobi entirely for wanting to achieve the illusion world. The entire world is against him now and excluding Kakashi, possibly Black Zetsu as well if he's still alive, there's no one remaining who he cares about (if he even cares about Zetsu in the first place). He's got nothing left to lose.
Nice to see Killer Bee BTW. The fact that Minato has appeared on the battlefield has just opened up a myriad of possibilities since the two of them are now on the same side. Fate has a funny way of presenting itself.
First part: Please for the love of every single prophet up there, please let this happen.
About the doton part, what I believe Kakashi stated was that everyone has a particular affinity towards one element. But however, higher-level ninjas can learn and use other elements (up to 2 extra ones aside from their natural affinity). Look at Asuma, he's got wind as his affinity and fire as a secondary element. If said ninja's doton is weak, other ninjas with stronger doton can reinforce them. Quantity vs Quality.
Agree with your entire assessment of Obito. That is exactly what I think. And fate does work in funny ways for Bee, doesn't it?? his once sworn enemy's son comes to him right on his doorstep begging him to teach him, and then said enemy swoops in to help in his most dire moment.
The family that couldn't be.
[post='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EItApJttbY']An Underrated Song Worth Listening[/post]
#185
Chatte
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:18 AM
SS fans are getting more and more frustrated with these chapters it seems...
#186
Atheck
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:30 AM
QUOTE (Codus N @ May 15 2013, 07:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First part: Please for the love of every single prophet up there, please let this happen.
About the doton part, what I believe Kakashi stated was that everyone has a particular affinity towards one element. But however, higher-level ninjas can learn and use other elements (up to 2 extra ones aside from their natural affinity). Look at Asuma, he's got wind as his affinity and fire as a secondary element. If said ninja's doton is weak, other ninjas with stronger doton can reinforce them. Quantity vs Quality.
Agree with your entire assessment of Obito. That is exactly what I think. And fate does work in funny ways for Bee, doesn't it?? his once sworn enemy's son comes to him right on his doorstep begging him to teach him, and then said enemy swoops in to help in his most dire moment.
About the doton part, what I believe Kakashi stated was that everyone has a particular affinity towards one element. But however, higher-level ninjas can learn and use other elements (up to 2 extra ones aside from their natural affinity). Look at Asuma, he's got wind as his affinity and fire as a secondary element. If said ninja's doton is weak, other ninjas with stronger doton can reinforce them. Quantity vs Quality.
Agree with your entire assessment of Obito. That is exactly what I think. And fate does work in funny ways for Bee, doesn't it?? his once sworn enemy's son comes to him right on his doorstep begging him to teach him, and then said enemy swoops in to help in his most dire moment.
That still doesn't explain how all of these ninja could have suddenly acquired the ability to convert and then properly forge their chakra into Doton in such an efficient manner. Bear in mind that a considerable amount of these ninja, the K8 in particular who are part of that group, have never even displayed nature transformation capabilities at all until now. Even Naruto who at least has some comprehension on how to convert his chakra into Futon is still comparatively inexperienced on how to utilize it in different forms; in fact the only moments where he makes use of his affinity is when he is using the FRS. The only one with any noteworthy experience or knowledge with elemental ninjutsu appears to be Sasuke.
#187
Gravenimage
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:30 AM
QUOTE (Chatte @ May 15 2013, 03:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
SS fans are getting more and more frustrated with these chapters it seems...
What??? There are SS fans???
Gravenimage
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Lone Wolf of the Grave
#188
Chatte
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:32 AM
QUOTE (Gravenimage @ May 15 2013, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What??? There are SS fans???
Yeah. There was this someone on Tumblr who really got me mad. Saying that we degrade Sakura's character by shipping her with Naruto. Like WTF?!
#189
rocci
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:33 AM
QUOTE (Chatte @ May 15 2013, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah. There was this someone on Tumblr who really got me mad. Saying that we degrade Sakura's character by shipping her with Naruto. Like WTF?!
Lol, it cann't be true right?
#190
redragon88
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:34 AM
QUOTE (Chatte @ May 15 2013, 07:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
SS fans are getting more and more frustrated with these chapters it seems...
Really? I figured they would just say that Sakura is simply acting like the super duper friend/comrade/sister that she's allegedly meant to be for Naruto.
And at the same time say that when she encounters Sasuke they'll melt into each others arms because of destiny or whatever.
#191
Namaenash
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:35 AM
Welcome back to consistency, Kishi sensei. I'm glad that it was Shikamaru who lead the alliance with some plan. It's just feel natural. Imagine if Hinata is the one leading the effort... It'll be very forced. Hopefully her brief appearance in previous chapter was only for the sake of fanservice.
My favorite part is Sakura 's speech. That was very fierce and fitting. Healing Naruto AND encouraging the alliance. Hopefully she'll get more panel time going forward. It's just feel natural, you don't need someone to die for her to deliver the speech. You don't need a forced stunt as well (fixing Naruto's shoulder while in the air without medic specialty? Way too forced isn't it?).
I'm embracing the possibility of SS moment, but I hope we won't see any. It would just downgrade her character after this chapter.
Minato's entrance to the scene was grand and solid. I'm hoping he'll say something like 'please heal/take care of my son' or something along those lines to Sakura. Or something that can make Kushina's advice to find a girl like her, come to a full circle. Not necessarily now. Something that can make the pairing fandom starts debating again
I'll keep my hope steady and enjoy the ride. So much possibilities in the coming chapters (be it good or bad for NS
My favorite part is Sakura 's speech. That was very fierce and fitting. Healing Naruto AND encouraging the alliance. Hopefully she'll get more panel time going forward. It's just feel natural, you don't need someone to die for her to deliver the speech. You don't need a forced stunt as well (fixing Naruto's shoulder while in the air without medic specialty? Way too forced isn't it?).
I'm embracing the possibility of SS moment, but I hope we won't see any. It would just downgrade her character after this chapter.
Minato's entrance to the scene was grand and solid. I'm hoping he'll say something like 'please heal/take care of my son' or something along those lines to Sakura. Or something that can make Kushina's advice to find a girl like her, come to a full circle. Not necessarily now. Something that can make the pairing fandom starts debating again
I'll keep my hope steady and enjoy the ride. So much possibilities in the coming chapters (be it good or bad for NS
http://namaenasuyou.tumblr.com/ || https://www.fanfiction.net/u/6308104/
"I'm sorry I didn't believe. But I'd given up believing in so much, until I met you. From the first day I saw you, you were everything I ever wanted to believe in. You can do this, Diana. I know you can...But I have to go."
"What? What are you saying?"
"It's okay, this is what I came here to do. I can save today, but you... you can save the world."
#192
Dkey
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:36 AM
QUOTE (Atheck @ May 15 2013, 01:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What an interesting chapter. As with everyone else the primary interest was seeing how Sakura was able to encourage everyone to continue fighting regardless of the severity of the situation. It has been a considerably long period since she received any noteworthy screen time and this chapter truly was a welcome addition. To see Sakura providing her words in that manner makes this chapter very much worth the wait. Then there is the final segment of the chapter where Minato appears next to her and Naruto; the man who is literally Naruto's father, the 4th Hokage, and probably one of only a few individuals who could provide some potential insight into who Naruto will end up with (there is the most logical possibility of NS but having the father of one of the parents reinforce it by giving their support would be tremendously beneficial). Sakura, you can not relent with healing alone. Your contribution here will overtake those of others, I believe, as it functions for an astronomically more significant purpose of resuscitating Naruto, but do not stop there. Please Kishi, allow her the honour of fighting here as it has been so long since we last witnessed Sakura in combat.
To be quite honest, Sakura is beginning to resemble Tsunade quite a bit with her restoring Naruto's chakra in that posture she has.
Sakura's amazingness aside, was anyone else disappointed to see that the rest of the alliance was not in rendered unconscious as many presumed them to be? To see the amount of shinobi within the alliance gradually diminish over the course of the battle really contributed to the hopelessness of the situation and it really emphasized their weakening, but unfaltering resistance. Of course that ambiance is still there, it's just not as effective as it would have been had that small barricade of shinobi had truly been the final line of defense before Naruto. However, that may have potentially given Hinata even more exorbitant amounts of screen time, depriving others such as Ino of theirs in the process, so perhaps this was for the best.
Oh yes, that brings me to another point. Was anyone else disturbed by the easiness of everyone learning a Doton ninjutsu? Of course it was merely a basic technique but from my interpretation of Kakashi's explanation of elemental manipulation it appeared as though that the element in question needed to be the potential user's own type. Without that natural proclivity they would be unable to learn how to harness that element. Well that notion was apparently incorrect. I cannot say that it didn't feel as though that the value of elemental exclusivity was cheapened with this chapter. For Naruto it required days and the usage of a highly dangerous training technique to understand how to finally utilize his element. Yet now we are supposed to believe that everyone is capable of performing a particular form of manipulation without any prior training? I believe Kishi made an inaccuracy in this regard; or at the very least it undermines the value of elemental exclusivity and all of those who had to train arduously just to learn how to use their elements.
Tobi versus Kakashi has become an incessant exchange of ideological and moral rhetoric. There is a time for character and plot development but considering that this a shonen I believe that fighting should assume some level of precedence. The again, this is definitely one of the most important and sensitive situations in the entire manga. Tobi is the entire reason that events began as they did in the first place.
Well on an unrelated note it seems like Tobi's "hole" may not be a illusion at all. That is unless Tobi layered an additional genjutsu on top of the one he created with Rin and his younger self to tempt Kakashi. Which brings me to yet another point. Tobi really is placing value in the opinion of his former comrade. Here he is endeavouring to persuade Kakashi that the world they currently reside in is wrought with nothing but turmoil and affliction. Of course Kakashi is rejecting it but it truly exemplifies the contradiction in Tobi's previous statement about not being concerned with anyone's opinion; believing them to be an artificial construct that is not the original variants of themselves. It has since been made perfectly clear that he does value it. Whether that is a product of malice towards Kakashi or subconscious endearment for his previous friend is unclear.
I can't deny that there isn't any validity to Tobi's statement. At least when it comes to himself. Kakashi has companions, a life, and a future. Tobi has none of those things. He has essentially devoted his entire life to the Moon's Eye Plan and the aspirations which Madara influenced him to look towards. In the process he created a terrorist organization that has put the stability of the nations in jeopardy, instigated a full scale war against all five great nations, and has brought about the deaths of thousands. Even if the alliance were to implement into political/judicial/military practice Naruto's ideals that would not and should not exonerate a man who is basically the entire reason for the most significant detriments occurring today (following Madara and the Older Son's actions of course). I mean could anyone actually picture Tobi giving up his plans which he has been striving for for decades and simply returning to Konoha without any protest being made? What or who would he have left to return to?
Kakashi references his companions, that a person should take into consideration their feelings. Well then what about Tobi's? That notion goes both ways. The only arguing point that Kakashi has at that moment is majority opinion and when I was last aware none of them were Tobi's friends. The closest thing to friends that he's had for most of his life are a dualistic plant monster with a bad habit of making jokes related to bowel movements, a traumatized genocidal man who believed he was god, a deluded murderous shark man who was ironically looking to achieve the opposite of what he was espousing for, his assisting partner in the Uchiha massacre who was actually attempting to thwart his plans, two immortal freaks that he never really interacted with, a woman who was also severely traumatized by war but who was more interested in reinforcing the fantasies of her childhood companion, and lastly a sociopathic bomber who constantly berated and attacked him while treating him like an inferior. Mind you, most of these people are now dead and even when they were all still alive Tobi was assuming the persona of a naive recruit who had only just joined so the amount of people that he might have befriended from those referenced would have decreased further. Of course there's also the issue that several of them were either untrustworthy spies like Itachi or defectors like Nagato and Konan who didn't care much for Tobi's opinion when they assumed their moral positions.
Tobi was definitely considering their opinions when he persuaded some like Kisame and Nagato to join. In fact when it comes to Kisame and Zetsu it appears that they both may have been fully aware of the MEP and consented to helping regardless. Knowing that you have nothing left but the idealistic rhetoric of someone whom you knew almost twenty years ago. Knowing that everyone else that you befriended or were associated with has been killed, I can't blame Tobi entirely for wanting to achieve the illusion world. The entire world is against him now and excluding Kakashi, possibly Black Zetsu as well if he's still alive, there's no one remaining who he cares about (if he even cares about Zetsu in the first place). He's got nothing left to lose.
Nice to see Killer Bee BTW. The fact that Minato has appeared on the battlefield has just opened up a myriad of possibilities since the two of them are now on the same side. Fate has a funny way of presenting itself.
To be quite honest, Sakura is beginning to resemble Tsunade quite a bit with her restoring Naruto's chakra in that posture she has.
Sakura's amazingness aside, was anyone else disappointed to see that the rest of the alliance was not in rendered unconscious as many presumed them to be? To see the amount of shinobi within the alliance gradually diminish over the course of the battle really contributed to the hopelessness of the situation and it really emphasized their weakening, but unfaltering resistance. Of course that ambiance is still there, it's just not as effective as it would have been had that small barricade of shinobi had truly been the final line of defense before Naruto. However, that may have potentially given Hinata even more exorbitant amounts of screen time, depriving others such as Ino of theirs in the process, so perhaps this was for the best.
Oh yes, that brings me to another point. Was anyone else disturbed by the easiness of everyone learning a Doton ninjutsu? Of course it was merely a basic technique but from my interpretation of Kakashi's explanation of elemental manipulation it appeared as though that the element in question needed to be the potential user's own type. Without that natural proclivity they would be unable to learn how to harness that element. Well that notion was apparently incorrect. I cannot say that it didn't feel as though that the value of elemental exclusivity was cheapened with this chapter. For Naruto it required days and the usage of a highly dangerous training technique to understand how to finally utilize his element. Yet now we are supposed to believe that everyone is capable of performing a particular form of manipulation without any prior training? I believe Kishi made an inaccuracy in this regard; or at the very least it undermines the value of elemental exclusivity and all of those who had to train arduously just to learn how to use their elements.
Tobi versus Kakashi has become an incessant exchange of ideological and moral rhetoric. There is a time for character and plot development but considering that this a shonen I believe that fighting should assume some level of precedence. The again, this is definitely one of the most important and sensitive situations in the entire manga. Tobi is the entire reason that events began as they did in the first place.
Well on an unrelated note it seems like Tobi's "hole" may not be a illusion at all. That is unless Tobi layered an additional genjutsu on top of the one he created with Rin and his younger self to tempt Kakashi. Which brings me to yet another point. Tobi really is placing value in the opinion of his former comrade. Here he is endeavouring to persuade Kakashi that the world they currently reside in is wrought with nothing but turmoil and affliction. Of course Kakashi is rejecting it but it truly exemplifies the contradiction in Tobi's previous statement about not being concerned with anyone's opinion; believing them to be an artificial construct that is not the original variants of themselves. It has since been made perfectly clear that he does value it. Whether that is a product of malice towards Kakashi or subconscious endearment for his previous friend is unclear.
I can't deny that there isn't any validity to Tobi's statement. At least when it comes to himself. Kakashi has companions, a life, and a future. Tobi has none of those things. He has essentially devoted his entire life to the Moon's Eye Plan and the aspirations which Madara influenced him to look towards. In the process he created a terrorist organization that has put the stability of the nations in jeopardy, instigated a full scale war against all five great nations, and has brought about the deaths of thousands. Even if the alliance were to implement into political/judicial/military practice Naruto's ideals that would not and should not exonerate a man who is basically the entire reason for the most significant detriments occurring today (following Madara and the Older Son's actions of course). I mean could anyone actually picture Tobi giving up his plans which he has been striving for for decades and simply returning to Konoha without any protest being made? What or who would he have left to return to?
Kakashi references his companions, that a person should take into consideration their feelings. Well then what about Tobi's? That notion goes both ways. The only arguing point that Kakashi has at that moment is majority opinion and when I was last aware none of them were Tobi's friends. The closest thing to friends that he's had for most of his life are a dualistic plant monster with a bad habit of making jokes related to bowel movements, a traumatized genocidal man who believed he was god, a deluded murderous shark man who was ironically looking to achieve the opposite of what he was espousing for, his assisting partner in the Uchiha massacre who was actually attempting to thwart his plans, two immortal freaks that he never really interacted with, a woman who was also severely traumatized by war but who was more interested in reinforcing the fantasies of her childhood companion, and lastly a sociopathic bomber who constantly berated and attacked him while treating him like an inferior. Mind you, most of these people are now dead and even when they were all still alive Tobi was assuming the persona of a naive recruit who had only just joined so the amount of people that he might have befriended from those referenced would have decreased further. Of course there's also the issue that several of them were either untrustworthy spies like Itachi or defectors like Nagato and Konan who didn't care much for Tobi's opinion when they assumed their moral positions.
Tobi was definitely considering their opinions when he persuaded some like Kisame and Nagato to join. In fact when it comes to Kisame and Zetsu it appears that they both may have been fully aware of the MEP and consented to helping regardless. Knowing that you have nothing left but the idealistic rhetoric of someone whom you knew almost twenty years ago. Knowing that everyone else that you befriended or were associated with has been killed, I can't blame Tobi entirely for wanting to achieve the illusion world. The entire world is against him now and excluding Kakashi, possibly Black Zetsu as well if he's still alive, there's no one remaining who he cares about (if he even cares about Zetsu in the first place). He's got nothing left to lose.
Nice to see Killer Bee BTW. The fact that Minato has appeared on the battlefield has just opened up a myriad of possibilities since the two of them are now on the same side. Fate has a funny way of presenting itself.
Nice post.
Regarding the doton thing, I assume it relates to the word shape manipulation. There is where the affinity part comes in.
Because the way things were going before the training Kakashi could use 1000 jutsus, and all shared different elements.
So probably anyone can use a elemental specific technique if he knows the seals. Sasuke and any other Uchiha could use the fire breath even thou they had different afinities.
Maybe A's and the third Raikage's lightning armor is simpler to do than Sasuke's or Kakashi's chidori. All shinobi could do simple shapes or just generate the effect while only someone with affinity can shape it.
#193
Chatte
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:37 AM
QUOTE (rocci @ May 15 2013, 11:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lol, it cann't be true right?
QUOTE (redragon88 @ May 15 2013, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Really? I figured they would just say that Sakura is simply acting like the super duper friend/comrade/sister that she's allegedly meant to be for Naruto.
And at the same time say that when she encounters Sasuke they'll melt into each others arms because of destiny or whatever.
And at the same time say that when she encounters Sasuke they'll melt into each others arms because of destiny or whatever.
Yeah, combine these two and you got the idea.
Here it is:
QUOTE
After reading some reactions to 630, I’m really disappointed.
Most, if not all, the NaruSaku shippers are tossing their panties about Sakura’s monologue about being COMRADES with Naruto. And claiming NaruSaku is on the way. Judging from that kunai and Minato popping up (fINALLY) I’d say the next thing coming is the NaruSaku “kitten blocker” himself.
Sasuke Uchiha.
Other reactions about Sakura “finally being useful”. Like get out. I know she’s not the best heroine, who is BUT OUR GIRL IS DOING DAMAGE HELL YEAH. Her healing is top notch and she’s about to heal Naruto completely.
Then there are some reactions just generally ignoring the Kakashi and Obito confrontation just to find things with their shipping goggles (sorry all ya gonna find is a friendship speech booboo).
All in all I loved this chapter. It ENDED AT SUCH A GOOD PART. Kakashi PREACH.
And with most of the NaruSaku shippers waiting for Sasuke to arrive just to show Sakura’s complete support and love for Naruto…I already feel bad for you. That girl is most likely gonna either get a panel to herself (for the gazillionth time when Sasuke is the reason) in complete shock. The girl has feelings for Sasuke still.
Stop trying to justify her actions as a healer (and comrade) as love for Naruto. And stop trying to change her canon feelings for Sasuke to Naruto. Like it just can’t work. You’re degrading her character.
Most, if not all, the NaruSaku shippers are tossing their panties about Sakura’s monologue about being COMRADES with Naruto. And claiming NaruSaku is on the way. Judging from that kunai and Minato popping up (fINALLY) I’d say the next thing coming is the NaruSaku “kitten blocker” himself.
Sasuke Uchiha.
Other reactions about Sakura “finally being useful”. Like get out. I know she’s not the best heroine, who is BUT OUR GIRL IS DOING DAMAGE HELL YEAH. Her healing is top notch and she’s about to heal Naruto completely.
Then there are some reactions just generally ignoring the Kakashi and Obito confrontation just to find things with their shipping goggles (sorry all ya gonna find is a friendship speech booboo).
All in all I loved this chapter. It ENDED AT SUCH A GOOD PART. Kakashi PREACH.
And with most of the NaruSaku shippers waiting for Sasuke to arrive just to show Sakura’s complete support and love for Naruto…I already feel bad for you. That girl is most likely gonna either get a panel to herself (for the gazillionth time when Sasuke is the reason) in complete shock. The girl has feelings for Sasuke still.
Stop trying to justify her actions as a healer (and comrade) as love for Naruto. And stop trying to change her canon feelings for Sasuke to Naruto. Like it just can’t work. You’re degrading her character.
And my answer:
Excuse me? Stop trying to twist our words just because you ship her with Sasuke. We always recognized her feelings for Sasuke as well but to say that by shipping Sakura with Naruto we are degrading her, what about you shipping her with Sasuke who tried to kill her is? Just because she’s shown closer to Naruto it’s not our fault. Go scream it to Kishimoto.
Just ship whatever you want to ship and whoever you want to ship her but let us enjoy our moments, ok?
Geez…
#194
rocci
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Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:45 AM
QUOTE (Chatte @ May 15 2013, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, combine these two and you got the idea.
Here it is:
And my answer:
Excuse me? Stop trying to twist our words just because you ship her with Sasuke. We always recognized her feelings for Sasuke as well but to say that by shipping Sakura with Naruto we are degrading her, what about you shipping her with Sasuke who tried to kill her is? Just because she’s shown closer to Naruto it’s not our fault. Go scream it to Kishimoto.
Just ship whatever you want to ship and whoever you want to ship her but let us enjoy our moments, ok?
Geez…
Here it is:
And my answer:
Excuse me? Stop trying to twist our words just because you ship her with Sasuke. We always recognized her feelings for Sasuke as well but to say that by shipping Sakura with Naruto we are degrading her, what about you shipping her with Sasuke who tried to kill her is? Just because she’s shown closer to Naruto it’s not our fault. Go scream it to Kishimoto.
Just ship whatever you want to ship and whoever you want to ship her but let us enjoy our moments, ok?
Geez…
Degrading her character? Last time I check, it's sasuke who degrading sakura AND naruto character.
And tell them about obirin and narusaku parallel.
#195
Codus N
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Highandnow
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:45 AM
QUOTE (Atheck @ May 15 2013, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That still doesn't explain how all of these ninja could have suddenly acquired the ability to convert and then properly forge their chakra into Doton in such an efficient manner. Bear in mind that a considerable amount of these ninja, the K8 in particular who are part of that group, have never even displayed nature transformation capabilities at all until now. Even Naruto who at least has some comprehension on how to convert his chakra into Futon is still comparatively inexperienced on how to utilize it in different forms; in fact the only moments where he makes use of his affinity is when he is using the FRS. The only one with any noteworthy experience or knowledge with elemental ninjutsu appears to be Sasuke.
Shikamaru asked Kitsuchi the handseal formula for simple doton barriers. Ninjas, from a very young age were taught how to knead chakra with handseals. If you can get the formula, you can use the jutsu. The effectiveness vary from person to person, but they can still create the barriers with the basic kneading technique. What makes Shikamaru's plan more effective is that there's enough quantity of Shinobi to slow down the Bijuudama.
The Futon training drill Naruto went through was for effectiveness. But what Shikamaru's aiming here is the quantity. It doesn't matter if one's doton is weak compared to the others (as said person never went through the doton training regiment) but with the basic kneading method, they can still use and create it, disregarding the strength of the walls.
@Dkey: Good point. That works as well, I think.
Edited by Codus N, 15 May 2013 - 11:47 AM.
The family that couldn't be.
[post='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EItApJttbY']An Underrated Song Worth Listening[/post]
#196
六道仙人
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レヴィ 好き
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:45 AM
AAAAAAAAH I'm died! I'm in shock! Finally Kishimoto! It seems you've woke up! I have no words to describe all this!! This chapter felt so.... natural and not forced! Sakura with her speech while is healing Naruto, Kakashi's trying to save Obito, Shikamarui's trying to help the alliance and the final cliffhanger with Minato....!
That person must still go to kindergarten or something...
QUOTE (Chatte @ May 15 2013, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah. There was this someone on Tumblr who really got me mad. Saying that we degrade Sakura's character by shipping her with Naruto. Like WTF?!
That person must still go to kindergarten or something...
俺は天才バスケットマン桜木花道。
"I'm the Basketball genius, Hanamichi Sakuragi"
#197
HauntedCake
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- Jounin
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Jounin
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:47 AM
QUOTE (Gravenimage @ May 15 2013, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What??? There are SS fans???
Well there are still SS fans because they are waiting for the SS moment incoming, hoping for Sakura to carry the relationship all herself.
QUOTE (Chatte @ May 15 2013, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah. There was this someone on Tumblr who really got me mad. Saying that we degrade Sakura's character by shipping her with Naruto. Like WTF?!
HAHAHHA
#198
rocci
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:50 AM
QUOTE (Codus N @ May 15 2013, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Shikamaru asked Kitsuchi the handseal formula for simple doton barriers. Ninjas, from a very young age were taught how to knead chakra with handseals. If you can get the formula, you can use the jutsu. The effectiveness vary from person to person, but they can still create the barriers with the basic kneading technique. What makes Shikamaru's plan more effective is that there's enough quantity of Shinobi to slow down the Bijuudama.
The Futon training drill Naruto went through was for effectiveness. But what Shikamaru's aiming here is the quantity. It doesn't matter if one's doton is weak compared to the others (as said person never went through the doton training regiment) but with the basic kneading method, they can still use and create it, disregarding the strength of the walls.
@Dkey: Good point. That works as well, I think.
The Futon training drill Naruto went through was for effectiveness. But what Shikamaru's aiming here is the quantity. It doesn't matter if one's doton is weak compared to the others (as said person never went through the doton training regiment) but with the basic kneading method, they can still use and create it, disregarding the strength of the walls.
@Dkey: Good point. That works as well, I think.
Sorry codus, I cann't add anything but with you in this one.
#199
Gravenimage
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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:51 AM
QUOTE (redragon88 @ May 15 2013, 04:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Really? I figured they would just say that Sakura is simply acting like the super duper friend/comrade/sister that she's allegedly meant to be for Naruto.
And at the same time say that when she encounters Sasuke they'll melt into each others arms because of destiny or whatever.
And at the same time say that when she encounters Sasuke they'll melt into each others arms because of destiny or whatever.
Lol I see what you did there.
Gravenimage
Lone Wolf of the Grave
Lone Wolf of the Grave
#200
redragon88
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- Legendary Ninja
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Legendary Ninja
Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:53 AM
@Chatte
That person is clearly hurt all over because they know how significant it was for Sakura to be the one transmitting Naruto's wishes to the alliance. It shows how much Sakura wants the world to realize that Naruto is worthy of becoming the great leader and Hokage that he's meant to be.
And about Sakura reacting to Sasuke, tell us something we don't know. Of course she has to react to Sasuke, she can't get with Naruto before dealing with Sasuke. But it seems that person has the believe that maybe Sasuke will talk to Sakura for an entire chapter or something and that they'll have epic tender moments. Get real.
I bet Sasuke just reveals himself, and says that for now he'll help but to not get any strange ideas about him, and all of this is mainly directed at Naruto. Then he goes to fight and barely notices Sakura. The end.
That person is clearly hurt all over because they know how significant it was for Sakura to be the one transmitting Naruto's wishes to the alliance. It shows how much Sakura wants the world to realize that Naruto is worthy of becoming the great leader and Hokage that he's meant to be.
And about Sakura reacting to Sasuke, tell us something we don't know. Of course she has to react to Sasuke, she can't get with Naruto before dealing with Sasuke. But it seems that person has the believe that maybe Sasuke will talk to Sakura for an entire chapter or something and that they'll have epic tender moments. Get real.
I bet Sasuke just reveals himself, and says that for now he'll help but to not get any strange ideas about him, and all of this is mainly directed at Naruto. Then he goes to fight and barely notices Sakura. The end.
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