3406 replies to this topic

[Uzumaki Naruto]

What I'll never understand is all this build up with naruto and Sakura. From when he got back (Starting of Naruto Part 2) till now. There was little to nothing (or just a few rare moments for her) going with Hinata until she declared she wanted to hold his hand during a fierce battle to the death (Which is beyond me why anyone would do that unless some how gave them mystical power or need two people to do a high level jutsu) The development is trash and I'm still furious about it. Naruto and Sakura's friendship will always be weird and in bad taste now because of the way they act towards each other.

Well to me the ship is likely sunk and I'm drowning. Though the spirit of this ship will live on and I believe in that. If we are extremely lucky maybe Kishi will pull off a manga miracle for us and we will make it on our last legs.

What sucks the most is I really loved Sakura's character and how she was with Naruto. It brought life to the manga.

[Transformers03]

Well if you read my post, I think it came off as neutral. I'm not going to be like "Haha, it's only Hinata blah blah blah." My point is that the moment did happen, but is it supposed to be love or not. The only way to answer it is the follow-up from that moment. It's like if you read the manga ending without reading it from the beginning. Once you did, all the moments from whatever pairing will be "clearer." For all we know, it could be NH or NS that truly got the friendship's development and not heading to romance aspects. It will only be determined in the end. I should repost my post to see what people think. And yes, I am going down with the ship if the pairing becomes canon.

Yeah, you come up with some more un-bias post on this site. Which is why your posts are some of the greatest on the site.
But, and I'm only being honest with this, even then some of your post seem to favor NS than the others. You're a wait and see kind of person, which is what I try to be (though I tend to panic easily). Yet this is a NS fan site, so the fact you are able to come up with pretty close to neutral posts about a pairing yet still support it is still accomplishment in itself.

[Transformers03]

I know what you mean, and it does have additional significance because this entire arc is a grand finale of sorts.

One sad part is that the shipping wars do ruin our enjoyment of the manga to an extent :/ Because while I ship NaruSaku, I will admit literary-wise, this chapter was quite nicely symbolic in allowing Hinata to come full circle with who she started off at Part 1.

When I re-read the chapter instead of thinking "OMG is she putting her hand on his cheek...IS HE HOLDING HER HAND NOW??!" I mean, it does look very romantic, but there was also a practical reason- he was passing her chakra too for this plan of Shikamaru's, or at least that's what it also looked like. And overall what Hinata said was a nice moment of growth for her character. I would have been pissed if she turned this into another love confession, but she didn't and she was talking about EVERYONE. Though of course, making this scene DOES give NaruHina as a pairing some development. But I did like that what she said this time was different from the Pain arc which I thought she WAS being selfish.

Hence, I don't think it's fair to say the chapter was kinda bad...(SasuSaku is more of a deal-breaker...poster child for abusive relationships.) I was even a NaruHina supporter last time- it was the start of Part II that made me defect - I just enjoyed Naruto and Sakura's interactions more and there were so many romantic hints.

The trouble is I guess that unlike more crack pairings like ItaSaku, the POSSIBILITY dangled of our chosen pairings becoming canon make us more invested in it and go crazy when it seems to be going other ways.

I think there's a fine line between optimism and denial, tbh there's some necessary overlap

If you want to think positive, note Kishi LOVES parallels.
The whole thing about the new generation surpassing the old, with Jiraiya and Tsunade (about how Tsunade rejected him all the time.) and Minato and Kushina (someone like your mother, the artistic similarity between panels when Naruto saves Sakura and Minato saves Kushina, plus in Road to Ninja, when Naruto saves Sakura in a fashion that is a literal copy of MinaKushi in chapter 501.

Of course, Neji and Hinata jumping in front of Naruto totally parallels Minato and Kushina's sacrifice. So I suppose we will find out somewhere that Neji and Hinata were engaged to get married to united the clan originally. /SNARK.

Plus, the Naruto-->Sakura-->Sasuke romantic issues imo adds a lot more drama...doesn't make sense to me Kishi would have tied it up with NaruHina now when he said we have at least a year more to go.

But that's just the thing. Kishi has given hints for BOTH sides, and it's not entirely clear. We interpret it in one way, NaruHina shippers interpret it another. Just cheer up everybody, it's not as though we have NO facts or points in our favour

You don't see me right now, but I 'm actually standing up giving you a one-man applaus.

Darn it, I double posted.

Edited by Transformers03, 27 December 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[Codus N]

While it is true that the editors job is to help sell the magazine, and Hinata's prominence could be a factor of editorial interference, but you have to think about the intended audiences for this manga. It isn't a romantic manga, but a action one. And generally speaking action is usually aimed at men. Most men, especially little boys, don't care about pairing stuff, so a hook about pairings wouldn't sell much.

Besides, isn't Narusaku more popular than Naruhina in Japan, so that wouldn't really make sense. Though I also heard that Sasusaku is more popular in Japan, so if Naruhina does become canon because of editorial decisions, it may just be to allow SS to happen. Granted that is a stretch.

The popularity of the pairings are really sketchy in Japan. There's really no way to confirm 100% which one is the more popular one. But we do know for a fact that Hinata is the more popular character compared to Sakura, as you can see in the latest character poll. So, that could very well have influenced the editorial decision on this chapter and beyond.

And actually, there is definitely a huge chunk of female fans in Japan. Although they mostly support yaoi, it would seem that they also consider NH as a "second-best" pairing. at least, IMO, if this chapter is any indication.

[BecauseYouLetRinDie]

This about sums up what I feel right now guys.

[coolcatjas]

Wow... Must admit at first I really took that blow and fell onto one knee this chapter. But now that I've calmed down and recovered I realized it was an overreaction on my part.

As some of you stated, this chapter fulfills Hinata's wish of "standing by [Naruto's] side and holding his hand" (or something like that) All this time Hinata always looked up to Naruto and found him to be very inspirational. She always had others to help her and she never really stood on her own two feet on her own. This chapter was a major development for her. This was her chapter to shine. This time SHE inspired Naruto. This time she stood on her own feet and knocked some sense into him when he almost gave in to Obito. This time she helped Naruto stand. She managed to do what she always wanted to, to become what she always wanted to be. And she got to stand and hold Naruto's hand. This is great for her. But... now what? Hinata's pretty much developed and this seems to be the climax to her character. There's not much else for her to do. I really think this is this is the most we'll get from her (well maybe a few more fight scenes and whatnot). Her time to shine has ended and she needs to step down and let the rest of the K11 to shine as well.

Also, it's interesting to see a panel singling out Sakura's reaction to Hinata's speech too. Crossing fingers that this foreshadows more Sakura air time in the future. After all she is the main heroine (right Kishi?) so her time to shine should come pretty soon too. Though I have a hunch that Kishi will give the other K11 members screen time first. Save the best for last? *shrugs*

Remember the manga isn't over yet. Naruto hasn't confessed to Hinata or shown any indication of romantic feelings towards her. NH is still not canon. I am still holding my head up high and will keep my both feet planted on this ship. NS will not go down without a fight. Keep your spirits high!

extra --Click here to view--

I also have a little theory why Hinata seemingly has more shine than the other characters. The Road to Ninja movie. Kishi did such a troll move for NH and SS shippers out there with that movie. There was so much NS in that movie Kishi felt he needed to please all shipping sides and gave Hinata a little extra shine this chapter. Just a theory, half-heartily thinking about it. :P

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yeah, you come up with some more un-bias post on this site. Which is why your posts are some of the greatest on the site.
But, and I'm only being honest with this, even then some of your post seem to favor NS than the others. You're a wait and see kind of person, which is what I try to be (though I tend to panic easily). Yet this is a NS fan site, so the fact you are able to come up with pretty close to neutral posts about a pairing yet still support it is still accomplishment in itself.

I respect that. I only said that people should just wait and see before finally declare game over. I don't blame people to jump ship, but sometimes, we should wait and see. You can say we got ambushed and we are either trying to counter attack or forfeit. That's our position right now. I am not in denial that they have a chance, hence me naming NH as the biggest threat of them all. If we can manage to pass this, not only it's a miracle but to me, this will make NS canon. Why else kill one, only to lead back where we came from. There's no more wishes from Hinata (well love but she didn't say it). I can't say it is over but it can be over if Kishi don't have a follow-up. These two weeks are going to intense, so I will make the best use of time to get everything done here while we all wait.

[James S Cassidy]

It doesn't matter if he mislead or not, the manga is suffering because of it either way. Catering like this has really f**cked up the quality of the manga.

I hate to admit it, but I agree. I have been getting headaches just thinking about it. I tried so hard to give Kishi the benefit of the doubt trying so hard to say that "There is a plan for everything," but it turns out the same. It's just...what is this manga really about? I thought it was about following your dreams, but at every turn people are so willing to give up that dream because something doesn't happen.

Naruto is really starting to piss me off too in these last chapters. Not just the NH attention, but his character itself. He is so stupid at everything, yet manages to win on pure fluke. Not even because there is no answer, but because Naruto doesn't provide the answer that would be the most logical and he goes catatonic every time something bad happens even though in previous chapters he went through the same thing and learned to accept it.

This NH scene feels so forced I am just face-palming. I am not even saying that as a NS fan, but as someone who saw Naruto grow up in other chapters only to turn around and forget everything that has happened to him and the lessons he learned.

*sigh* I really hope it gets better. Otherwise I'll write this manga myself before 2013 is over.

What are you doing, Kishi? What are you doing?

If I'm not really a Narusaku fan in your eyes, I'll honestly be alright with it. If I'm not a true pairing fan of a manga series about ninjas, I think I could live with it.

I don't really care either way. Same with how you don't really care either way either.

James, quit the member bashing. I though you were better than this.

Not member bashing. I did say "no offense" and "I'm sorry." I lose respect for people who have no commitment. Personal opinion. Would you consider it bashing just as well if someone called you delusional? Cause I have been called delusional by several members already in this thread, albeit indirectly, and I said nothing. Transformer implied me to be delusional, so I guess we are even.

You know I get told I am member bashing every single time I make a post that even remotely criticizes someone and being judged for it. Every time. Can no one take criticism anymore? I guess not.

I can't win no matter what I do, so I give up. I don't hate the man or think he is stupid, just think his lack of conviction to things he loves is disturbing. Especially since I have already been betrayed several times in my life by people who want to be on the "winning" side.

[sardns]

This is off-topic, but does anyone know what happened to ciardha (or however you spell it)? I just noticed she hasn't been around for a long time, and at a time like this, she would probably have something to say. Just curious...

[Toasty Warrior]

This sums up our situation perfectly:

[Codus N]

First if all, Hinata's epic, inspirational speech was just so great. But that's the problem. That moment had heroine undertones. The heroine should be doing that and giving Naruto confidence. Not a side character. Seriously, Hinata's like the damn frickin heroine lately. And where's Sakura? In the background, getting scarce importance. Kishi scratches his head and repeatedly says to the Hinata fantards "Sakura's the heroine, not Hinata." Okay. Maybe you should try showing it then! He wonders why people consider Hinata the heroine. He just answered that question by this chapter alone. God, I'm so pissed off right now! Sakura should've been the one doing that, not Hinata! Not only would it shut up the haters a little bit, it makes clear how important she is to the plot. In this arc, it's like Hinata and Sakura switched places. Hinata's the heroine, Sakura's the background character.

THIS. SO. FREAKIN' MUCH.

[Tsubaki]

Yes, sometimes.



Wouldn't count on that. Think about it, Hinata is currently far and away the more popular character compared to Sakura. So, from a marketing standpoint, NH becoming canon would be good business for JUMP and the manga. The editors' job is to also help boost the magazine's sales.

as far I know, The editor and JUMP itself can interfere in what is going to happen in the manga but they don't interfere in pairing issues since in a shounen it's never the big thing of the manga. I can't confirm if this is true, but it's something that I've been read in others fandons as well.

[CloudMountainJuror]

This sums up our situation perfectly:

Ah, Gandalf... always there for us when we feel down. :')

I hate to admit it, but I agree. I have been getting headaches just thinking about it. I tried so hard to give Kishi the benefit of the doubt trying so hard to say that "There is a plan for everything," but it turns out the same. It's just...what is this manga really about? I thought it was about following your dreams, but at every turn people are so willing to give up that dream because something doesn't happen.

Naruto is really starting to piss me off too in these last chapters. Not just the NH attention, but his character itself. He is so stupid at everything, yet manages to win on pure fluke. Not even because there is no answer, but because Naruto doesn't provide the answer that would be the most logical and he goes catatonic every time something bad happens even though in previous chapters he went through the same thing and learned to accept it.

This NH scene feels so forced I am just face-palming. I am not even saying that as a NS fan, but as someone who saw Naruto grow up in other chapters only to turn around and forget everything that has happened to him and the lessons he learned.

*sigh* I really hope it gets better. Otherwise I'll write this manga myself before 2013 is over.

What are you doing, Kishi? What are you doing?

I'd read it if you wrote it at this point, man.

[fireandice]

I hate to admit it, but I agree. I have been getting headaches just thinking about it. I tried so hard to give Kishi the benefit of the doubt trying so hard to say that "There is a plan for everything," but it turns out the same. It's just...what is this manga really about? I thought it was about following your dreams, but at every turn people are so willing to give up that dream because something doesn't happen.

Naruto is really starting to piss me off too in these last chapters. Not just the NH attention, but his character itself. He is so stupid at everything, yet manages to win on pure fluke. Not even because there is no answer, but because Naruto doesn't provide the answer that would be the most logical and he goes catatonic every time something bad happens even though in previous chapters he went through the same thing and learned to accept it.

This NH scene feels so forced I am just face-palming. I am not even saying that as a NS fan, but as someone who saw Naruto grow up in other chapters only to turn around and forget everything that has happened to him and the lessons he learned.

To be fair, writing-wise, I think Naruto's reaction to Neji's death was valid. Yes, he fought Pain and felt despair then when he learnt so many people, even Kakashi had died. He also had to cope when Jiraiya died.

But, like for soldiers, it is NOTHING like watching and SEEING your friend bleeding to death and dying in your arms, as what happened with Neji and Naruto. Especially since Naruto had just earlier declared he wouldn't let anyone die, BELIEVED he could prevent anyone from dying. In earlier occasions, even when Pain stabbed Hinata, he didn't see the actual act. He didn't see Kakashi die in the Pain invasion. He didn't see Jiraiya die. He knows that he had no power to do anything when Minato and Kushina died for him. With Neji, it's different. Neji was RIGHT there with him, he probably was beating himself up for not being able to do something.

So IMO to talk about Naruto for a change, aside from all this pairing thing , I think it was a perfectly normal for Naruto to freeze up in shock, because he hasn't seen a friend die like this before, really.

[candycane-chan]

This about sums up what I feel right now guys.

lol

well....this kind of ruind my day.
I wouldn't say it's canon though, yes, it's a big moment but it doesn't make them together. The worst part is now we have to wait and I really don't know how i'll do it.

obito's speech send my gut twisting. But really kishi! is naruto this stupid to forget about everything he believed in faster then even hinata ? I guess some characters need to be played with for others to shine.

If after this chapter We don't have any NH then it's safe to say that they stapped there since hinata's goal was to hold his hand.

[James S Cassidy]

I'd read it if you wrote it at this point, man.

Thanks for the support.

Maybe I will write something.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 27 December 2012 - 08:22 AM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Thanks for the support.

Maybe I will write something.

Dooo itttttt

[Nefertieh]

And where's Sakura? In the background, getting scarce importance. Kishi scratches his head and repeatedly says to the Hinata fantards "Sakura's the heroine, not Hinata."

No, Kishimoto wasn't surprised at all. It was him who brought up Hinata in response to the question about Sakura not being heroine enough. He didn't say Sakura was the heroine, he said, "because you say 'Hinata, Hinata,' I say 'she's not Hinata.'"

In a related note, I think we need to stop speculating that some editor is 'pulling the strings,' so to speak.

Edited by Nefertieh, 27 December 2012 - 08:29 AM.

[PhenixElite]

Hahaha, and again it seem like iam one of the less who has bot that big problem with that chapter.
For me This just shows the possibilities for NH falling, since this moments are happening still far away fron the end o the manga.

Well, hinata got her development, now we still have over 100 chapters to resolve the love triangle.

[Codus N]

Not member bashing. I did say "no offense" and "I'm sorry." I lose respect for people who have no commitment. Personal opinion. Would you consider it bashing just as well if someone called you delusional? Cause I have been called delusional by several members already in this thread, albeit indirectly, and I said nothing. Transformer implied me to be delusional, so I guess we are even.

You know I get told I am member bashing every single time I make a post that even remotely criticizes someone and being judged for it. Every time. Can no one take criticism anymore? I guess not.

I can't win no matter what I do, so I give up. I don't hate the man or think he is stupid, just think his lack of conviction to things he loves is disturbing. Especially since I have already been betrayed several times in my life by people who want to be on the "winning" side.

Criticism and bashing are two clear different things. When you bash someone, you bash based on their subjectivity. If a person has an opinion, then you shouldn't try to force your opinion on them. Conviction, yes. But I do remember that you've said everyone has their own opinions and it's okay to change your minds if you're proven wrong or at least feel you're proven wrong.

I won't say you're delusional, but at this point, how else are you going to call it?? as it is right now, NH has hard evidence of becoming canon. In fact, it even seems to be even bigger than all the NS moments we had. Remember that one of our arguments vs NH is that there's reciprocation between NH, well, this chapter has a heavy hint of it from Naruto's side.

As much as I would like to say this is one big misdirection like you've said, I can't find myself to completely agree.