275 replies to this topic

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Indeed, you're forgetting, it's not just the Nords chafing under the Aldmeri Dominion's...dominion, everyone is suffering because of the Thalmor's actions.

Considering the Empire was a powerful force in of itself, composed of several provinces, the fact that The Dominion crippled the Empire means they can easily destroy Skyrim, which is just 1 single province.

Hell, the Empire doesn't seem to care that Skyrim worships Talos, heck, Talos was the progenitor of the Septim bloodline, but they recognize that they're terribly outmatched.

[alexander]

Indeed, you're forgetting, it's not just the Nords chafing under the Aldmeri Dominion's...dominion, everyone is suffering because of the Thalmor's actions.

Considering the Empire was a powerful force in of itself, composed of several provinces, the fact that The Dominion crippled the Empire means they can easily destroy Skyrim, which is just 1 single province.

Hell, the Empire doesn't seem to care that Skyrim worships Talos, heck, Talos was the progenitor of the Septim bloodline, but they recognize that they're terribly outmatched.

And what about the dragonborn? His actions alone can change the tide of the civil war, couldn't the same apply to an war against the Thalmor? Besides, if you see the main quest ending, you can see that the dragonborn got himself some serious backup, so I think the Aldmeri dominion is not that invencible.

Edited by alexander, 08 December 2011 - 08:01 PM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

And what about the dragonborn? His actions alone can change the tide of the civil war, couldn't the same apply to an war against the Thalmor? Besides, if you see the main quest ending, you can see that the dragonborn got himself some serious backup.

Not necessarily.

Ending --Click here to view--

Paarthurnax only stated he'd unite the Dragons, doesn't automatically mean he'd unite them to help you.

In fact, it's intentionally vague because it's possible he finally gives in to his nature to seek power.

Paarthurnax means 'Ambition Overlord Cruelty.' So, he may or may not have used you to defeat Alduin so he can take control, himself.

His actions affected the civil war because it's an isolated incident. If the Thalmor attacks and breaks the ceasefire, all of the other provinces would need to band together, keeping Skyrim in the Empire keeps the Empire from weakening even further and makes Ulfric's rebellion pointless.

You want a really decent character? I only see Jarl Balgruuf as the most reasonable authority in the whole game, I'm not gonna ravage his city for attempting to stay neutral.

[alexander]

You want a really decent character? I only see Jarl Balgruuf as the most reasonable authority in the whole game, I'm not gonna ravage his city for attempting to stay neutral.

He didn't stayed neutral, he made an choice, the empire. And when you go give him the axe it's heavily implied he is helping the empire only because of the money, and even his right hand, that elf woman, criticize him for going against his land traditions. I mean, damn, because of money that guy is going against his own culture.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

He didn't stayed neutral, he made an choice, the empire. And when you go give him the axe it's heavily implied he is helping the empire only because of the money, and even his right hand, that elf woman, criticize him for going against his land traditions. I mean, damn, because of money that guy is going against his own culture.

...what

Not from what I saw; setting aside the 'chests of gold' comment, Irileth just made 1 off-handed comment that actually insulted Balgruuf. He made a choice because Ulfric forced his hand. Accepting the White-Gold Concordat was a pragmatic choice that, while he hates (and actually didn't have a choice), he saw the need for it. Hell, he was reluctant to accept Tulius's help, even in the Imperial questline.

And besides, facing each other in combat is a Nordic tradition, and like I said, the Imperials have never cared that the Skyrim practice their own culture, they're only being forced to cut down on Talos worship or else risk the Aldmeri Dominion steamrolling over them.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 08 December 2011 - 10:31 PM.

[alexander]

Not from what I saw; setting aside the 'chests of gold' comment, Irileth just made 1 off-handed comment that actually insulted Balgruuf. He made a choice because Ulfric forced his hand. Accepting the White-Gold Concordat was a pragmatic choice that, while he hates (and actually didn't have a choice), he saw the need for it. Hell, he was reluctant to accept Tulius's help, even in the Imperial questline.

And besides, facing each other in combat is a Nordic tradition, and like I said, the Imperials have never cared that the Skyrim practice their own culture, they're only being forced to cut down on Talos worship or else risk the Aldmeri Dominion steamrolling over them.

I still find dubious how he aways says that he hated to acept the concordat, but when Ulfric offer him a chance to go against it and side with him, he completely refuses. It makes looks like it was really all about the money in the end, rather then valors.

And I poked on the elders scrolls wiki page, I readed an article is important to mention. Everybody here is saying that empire is needed to defeat the Aldmeri, and that Skyrim wouldn't stand an chance because it's only an single province. But what about Hammerfell? When the Concordat was signed, and the Empire gave Hammerfell to the Aldmeri, the redguards were outraged and cutted off any ties with the empire, and not only that, they singlehandedly drove out the Aldmeri forces from their land when they tried to attack, this show that the empire just don't have what it takes to defeat the elfs, but other provinces, now that's totally another story. So in short I still believe Skyrim alone can make an imposing force, just like Hammerfell.

[Greed-Sama]

I still find dubious how he aways says that he hated to acept the concordat, but when Ulfric offer him a chance to go against it and side with him, he completely refuses. It makes looks like it was really all about the money in the end, rather then valors.

And I poked on the elders scrolls wiki page, I readed an article is important to mention. Everybody here is saying that empire is needed to defeat the Aldmeri, and that Skyrim wouldn't stand an chance because it's only an single province. But what about Hammerfell? When the Concordat was signed, and the Empire gave Hammerfell to the Aldmeri, the redguards were outraged and cutted off any ties with the empire, and not only that, they singlehandedly drove out the Aldmeri forces from their land when they tried to attack, this show that the empire just don't have what it takes to defeat the elfs, but other provinces, now that's totally another story. So in short I still believe Skyrim alone can make an imposing force, just like Hammerfell.

No. The resistance is still alive in Hammerfell. Ask Kematu in the quest In My Time of Need. They have not single handily driven out the Dominion. The only reason the Reguards have had any success any way is through the nature of Hammerfell's geography. All the cities surround a huge ass desert. That's really hard for an army to cross. Skyrim offers no such protection. They have mountains and the cold weather, but that hasn't stopped the Civil War and it wouldn't stop the Dominion.

[alexander]

No. The resistance is still alive in Hammerfell. Ask Kematu in the quest In My Time of Need. They have not single handily driven out the Dominion. The only reason the Reguards have had any success any way is through the nature of Hammerfell's geography. All the cities surround a huge ass desert. That's really hard for an army to cross. Skyrim offers no such protection. They have mountains and the cold weather, but that hasn't stopped the Civil War and it wouldn't stop the Dominion.

They did, this an quote directly from the wiki page:

"4E 180 — The Second Treaty of Stros M'kai is signed.

Having been fought to a standstill by the Redguards, the Aldmeri Dominion completely withdraws from Hammerfell."

[shadow_Uzumaki]

I still find dubious how he aways says that he hated to acept the concordat, but when Ulfric offer him a chance to go against it and side with him, he completely refuses. It makes looks like it was really all about the money in the end, rather then valors.

What part of:

Accepting the White-Gold Concordat was a pragmatic choice that, while he hates (and actually didn't have a choice), he saw the need for it. Hell, he was reluctant to accept Tulius's help, even in the Imperial questline.

...was unclear?

I've stated time and time again, the difference between Ulfric and Balgruuf is that one is short-sighted, still brainwashed to help weaken Imperial rule (though his lack of contact to the Thalmor is interesting), and is practically helping the Thalmor with his rebellion. Fine, so when Ulfric takes over Skyrim, what next? He tries to defend one province against the Aldmeri Dominion AND the Empire at the same time? The Empire can only tolerate Ulfric for so long before they fight back.

Balgruuf, on the other hand, knows the dangers of trying to fight the Empire AND the Dominion and would rather not subject his people to that. The 'for the money' thing was implied on the total of once and it may have helped Balgruuf's choice in the matter, but does that mean he's continuously receiving money? He doesn't need more, his kingdom's basically the trading hub for all of Skyrim, both import and export, that's why Ulfric wants it so badly.

And yeah, regards to Hammerfell, it's a province surrounded by deserts, as powerful as the Dominion is, they're not stupid, deserts will cripple an army.

Skyrim has more favorable terrain compared to Hammerfell, and you even get encounters with Thalmor agents taking prisoners randomly in Skyrim.
Further reading to that 4E 180 event shows that, yes, Hammerfell remains independent, but it took 5 years and devasted Hammerfell's southern territory.

http://www.uesp.net/...m:The_Great_War
Who knows what the state of the Redguards are. Are they still capable of repelling the Thalmor alone?

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 09 December 2011 - 08:56 PM.

[Cloud]

That's why I stuck with helping the Empire. As "honourable" Ulfric is, he's really being a short-sighted bigot, who wants only Skyrim for the Nords.

And the Empire will only tolerate him for a while before they crush him and his little "army".

[alexander]

And the Empire will only tolerate him for a while before they crush him and his little "army".

Same goes for the Empire with their crumbling force. For an small rebelion, the stormcloaks manage to give the "mighty" Empire an word of trouble. The fact that the dragonborn actions alone can change the tide of the civil war show that both forces are pratically even.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Same goes for the Empire with their crumbling force. For an small rebelion, the stormcloaks manage to give the "mighty" Empire an word of trouble. The fact that the dragonborn actions alone can change the tide of the civil war show that both forces are pratically even.

That's because he's the f_ing DRAGONBORN. Guy's a one man army.

Takes down hordes of dragons by himself. Dragon priests. Entire dungeons of Draugr, Dragon Priests, and bandits by himself. Takes down Alduin, himself.
No wonder he can change the tide. He's the equivalent of a platoon of elite SAS troops.

Otherwise, even if Ulfric wins without the Dragonborn, the costs will be greater, and he still has to contend with the rest of the Empire and/or Aldmeri Dominion.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 12 December 2011 - 05:24 AM.

[alexander]

That's because he's the f_ing DRAGONBORN. Guy's a one man army.

Takes down hordes of dragons by himself. Dragon priests. Entire dungeons of Draugr, Dragon Priests, and bandits by himself. Takes down Alduin, himself.
No wonder he can change the tide. He's the equivalent of a platoon of elite SAS troops.

Otherwise, even if Ulfric wins without the Dragonborn, the costs will be greater, and he still has to contend with the rest of the Empire and/or Aldmeri Dominion.

You know what? Why don't we send the dragonborn flying on Odahviin's back straight to Summerset Isles? This whole Thalmor deal will be over even before the Empire or the Nords can do anything.

On other notes, I just finished the Thieves guild quest line, at first I didn't liked it because of the extremely dobious things you need to do, but the gear you eventually get in return make up for it, I would strongly advise to take their quests early on, because the armor and weapons you get seriously help for begginers, and that skeleton key... it's a blessing.

[Paradox Jast]

Essentially this sets up the next game to take place on the Summerset Isles.

Either that, or we'll finally get more input from the Altmer or Akaviri. The Akaviri continent still has a grudge against Cyrodiil from the last time they were invaded.


Oh, and the Thieves Guild? Nightingale Armor? Oh hell yes. Do you use any mods?

Nightingale Prime Armor

Lockpick Pro (Yes, this one can easily be considered cheating. For some like me who have been playing for over 100 hours, and have hundreds of lockpicks, it simply saves time.)

[Greed-Sama]

Essentially this sets up the next game to take place on the Summerset Isles.

That's my guess for the next Elder Scrolls game too. Which is good. I want to kill the Thalmor. They give Altmer like me a bad name.

[Cloud]

That's my guess for the next Elder Scrolls game too. Which is good. I want to kill the Thalmor. They give Altmer like me a bad name.

Hell, I'm down for exploring Cyrodill again, if they're making DLC. Cause they do have the landscape set... if you noclip on pc to beyond Skyrim, you'll see the White Gold Tower.

And I have a feeling it won't be the end of Nocturnal, cause they're hinting it may be attacked in the future...

DLC, DLC, DLC.

Edit: God, Paradox, I wish I had it for PC... that prime armor mod looks sweet...

Edited by Cloud, 13 December 2011 - 01:58 AM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

So, I went for the 1000 bounty in all 9 Holds trophy run. Well, it wouldn't have been so hard if it didn't lag so much.

Eventually, with much perseverance, I managed to go kill a bunch of people in all 9 Holds...

[Muffins?]

ehhh I think I'll stick with my Assassins Creed reskin.

[No WhereMan]

Finally a way of life in Skyrim that I can get behind.

*Warning* excessive swearing! --Click here to view--

Edited by No WhereMan, 14 December 2011 - 12:25 PM.

[Paradox Jast]

... he just punched a dragon to death. A dragon. Punched. Death.


Wow.