277 replies to this topic

[Anguyen92]

Wow, if that system actually happens today, do you think that there would still be the royal wedding between two college buddies? Hmmm, hyuugacest, well don't know if it should happen, and by the way the whole hyuuga family has been developed and is way off topic from the main plot, I probably shouldn't care.

[ciardha]

Was looking at archived cosplay pictures from Japan's famous Comiket this weekend, specifically Naruto cosplayers. In several years worth of photos (2001-2009) you could see the very obvious conclusion that Sakura is by far the most liked female character- many cosplayers, Tsunade was the second most common female character to cosplay. Kurenai third, Temari fourth. Only then comes Hinata. I saw a grand total of two Hinata cosplayers over those years. (for Ino or Tenten fans, sorry but just 1 Ino cosplayer, Tenten none) There were already narusaku cosplayers way back in 2001 amongst the Japanese fans. I saw no naruhina ones whatsoever. After 2004 the sasusaku cosplayers disappeared, while narusaku increased. Naruto was the most popular male character to cosplay, pre 2004 Sasuke comes in second, from 2004 onward Kakashi cosplayers outnumber Sasuke cosplayers. It might be surprising to American cosplayers but Chouji looks to be the most popular of Team 10 to cosplay (particularly his part 1 costume), more Chouji cosplayers than Ino, Asuma or Shikamaru ones.

Just another snapshot showing the stark difference amongst Japanese and American Naruto fandoms...

[Darth Krypt]

Was looking at archived cosplay pictures from Japan's famous Comiket this weekend, specifically Naruto cosplayers. In several years worth of photos (2001-2009) you could see the very obvious conclusion that Sakura is by far the most liked female character- many cosplayers, Tsunade was the second most common female character to cosplay. Kurenai third, Temari fourth. Only then comes Hinata. I saw a grand total of two Hinata cosplayers over those years. (for Ino or Tenten fans, sorry but just 1 Ino cosplayer, Tenten none) There were already narusaku cosplayers way back in 2001 amongst the Japanese fans. I saw no naruhina ones whatsoever. After 2004 the sasusaku cosplayers disappeared, while narusaku increased. Naruto was the most popular male character to cosplay, pre 2004 Sasuke comes in second, from 2004 onward Kakashi cosplayers outnumber Sasuke cosplayers. It might be surprising to American cosplayers but Chouji looks to be the most popular of Team 10 to cosplay (particularly his part 1 costume), more Chouji cosplayers than Ino, Asuma or Shikamaru ones.

Just another snapshot showing the stark difference amongst Japanese and American Naruto fandoms...

Is it because the difference in culture that Americans still support NH and SS? They're not used to the tsundere concept and so don't like Sakura. But what about Hinata? Why do they favour the shy quiet girl more than the energetic one?

[alexander]

Is it because the difference in culture that Americans still support NH and SS? They're not used to the tsundere concept and so don't like Sakura. But what about Hinata? Why do they favour the shy quiet girl more than the energetic one?

Well, that's an long road to be explained. Pratically half of the western fans only watch Naruto through the anime, wich is an big NH/SS fest. While the others who read the manga don't like Sakura character at all. And for Hinata, her type of character seems to be very popular both here and on Japan too, she perfectly fits the shy Moe girl category, hell, give her glasses and she will turn into an ultra meganeko. The thing is that moe characters had become extremely popular on the anime fanbase, so is no surprise that Hinata had become so popular.

[Gravenimage]

Is it because the difference in culture that Americans still support NH and SS? They're not used to the tsundere concept and so don't like Sakura. But what about Hinata? Why do they favour the shy quiet girl more than the energetic one?

Dude I already knew that NH and SS are popular in the west while in the east after the yaoi pairings NS is the most popular in Japan. SS is probably the next one but NH is less popular its like a crack pairing.

[Darth Krypt]

Dude I already knew that NH and SS are popular in the west while in the east after the yaoi pairings NS is the most popular in Japan. SS is probably the next one but NH is less popular its like a crack pairing.

Why are you replying this to me? Shouldn't you reply that to ciardha who stated the pairing statistics?

[Anguyen92]

Is it because the difference in culture that Americans still support NH and SS? They're not used to the tsundere concept and so don't like Sakura. But what about Hinata? Why do they favour the shy quiet girl more than the energetic one?

Why is that the case anyway? Do they really like the shyness, almost like a damsel but not really? Is it possible that they are so insecure about their life that their subconcious is mentally telling them to be all macho and not cheer for the tsundere girl?

[TerrorKing]

Why is that the case anyway? Do they really like the shyness, almost like a damsel but not really? Is it possible that they are so insecure about their life that their subconcious is mentally telling them to be all macho and not cheer for the tsundere girl?

I think the reason is that, compared to Sakura, Hinata seems "easier". One of the most common insults I hear Hinata bashers use is that she's a "doormat", i.e. someone you can just walk all over without her putting up any kind of resistance.

That's not to say that Hinata has to spine whatsoever, I mean there is certaintly evidence in the manga to suggest otherwise, such as her fight with Neji and when the defended Naruto against Pain. However overall, when compared to Sakura, she does come off as rather "submissive".

TL:DR Men are afraid of strong women.

[Anguyen92]

^^ Well, then that's just tough nuggets, people might have to suck it up, I'm not afraid of strong women, heck I had a friendship to almost gettting there relationship with a strong woman for like a decade, but then again i'm pretty much a guy who's got a more calmer, tolerant, and more accepting demenior than most men.

Edited by anguyen92, 11 July 2011 - 03:14 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Hey remember episode 166, how Hinata Hinata's clan forbade her from interacting with Naruto? anyone smell a failed attempt to make it seem like forbidden romance like Romeo and Juliet just to name one?

Edited by Phantom_999, 15 July 2011 - 09:23 PM.

[merryGOflava]

Hey remember episode 166, how Hinata Hinata's clan forbade her from interacting with Naruto? anyone smell a failed attempt to make it seem like forbidden romance like Romeo and Juliet just to name one?

....i never saw that episode??? that happened??? O.o her father didnt really forbid her from talking to naruto did he?

[ciardha]

....i never saw that episode??? that happened??? O.o her father didnt really forbid her from talking to naruto did he?

anime filler, absolutely nothing to do with manga canon.

[Miss Soupy]

Dude I already knew that NH and SS are popular in the west while in the east after the yaoi pairings NS is the most popular in Japan. SS is probably the next one but NH is less popular its like a crack pairing.

Mm, as far as I've seen, SS has been the most popular het pairing in Japan. NS and NH are about even, though NS seemed to have a slight advantage.

[Super Boom]

Mm, as far as I've seen, SS has been the most popular het pairing in Japan. NS and NH are about even, though NS seemed to have a slight advantage.

That's actually what I've heard too, but I've heard multiple sources say different things. I actually read somewhere that ShikaTema was more popular than NaruHina in Japan, but I'm not sure if that's true. Especially since Shikamaru and Temari barely even interact anymore. But maybe their interactions in Part I and the beginning of Part II are enough to keep it strong. *shrug*
Plus, I feel that it's sort of hard to measure that sort of thing. Not everyone takes online or in-magazine polls, so I assume all the casual fans who ship tend to be left out. Plus a lot of SasuSaku fans sideship NaruHina, so I don 't really know how they'd gauge that in a poll either.

Interestingly enough though, I feel like it's sort of switched around in the Western fandom. NaruHina seems to trump all, with NaruSaku beating out SasuSaku by some amount. At least we're consistently in 2nd in those three het pairings.

[Miss Soupy]

That's actually what I've heard too, but I've heard multiple sources say different things. I actually read somewhere that ShikaTema was more popular than NaruHina in Japan, but I'm not sure if that's true. Especially since Shikamaru and Temari barely even interact anymore. But maybe their interactions in Part I and the beginning of Part II are enough to keep it strong. *shrug*
Plus, I feel that it's sort of hard to measure that sort of thing. Not everyone takes online or in-magazine polls, so I assume all the casual fans who ship tend to be left out. Plus a lot of SasuSaku fans sideship NaruHina, so I don 't really know how they'd gauge that in a poll either.

I tend to see things like pixiv art searches and google searches for specific pairings and then rating the amount of pages found against one another. There really haven't been legit polls that I know of, but I can't see why such polls wouldn't be a good gauge. If fans are doing fanworks and things, that pretty much shows interest.

I don't know much about ShikTem though, but I suppose having no interaction might not necessarily hurt a pairing, especially when KakaIru is the most popular pairing from Naruto and they have almost zero interaction XD

Interestingly enough though, I feel like it's sort of switched around in the Western fandom. NaruHina seems to trump all, with NaruSaku beating out SasuSaku by some amount. At least we're consistently in 2nd in those three het pairings.

This is where the side-shipping sort of skews things, I think, because there are plenty of NH fans who are willing to argue for that pairing and then sometimes argue towards SS, but generally SS fans don't have much to say at this point. I don't really see SS fans debating for their pairing only, but rather I see NH fans relying on SS to be true in order to argue certain points. One can't live without the other, it seems XD At least in debates.

[Super Boom]

I don't know much about ShikTem though, but I suppose having no interaction might not necessarily hurt a pairing, especially when KakaIru is the most popular pairing from Naruto and they have almost zero interaction XD

LOL, that's true, I didn't even think about KakaIru. I suppose the appeal of a pairing doesn't necessarily have to be in it having the most blatant development.

This is where the side-shipping sort of skews things, I think, because there are plenty of NH fans who are willing to argue for that pairing and then sometimes argue towards SS, but generally SS fans don't have much to say at this point. I don't really see SS fans debating for their pairing only, but rather I see NH fans relying on SS to be true in order to argue certain points. One can't live without the other, it seems XD At least in debates.

Most of what I've seen online (if not all of it) is opinions from the Western fandom. And I agree, I don't really see too many SasuSaku shippers that don't side-ship NaruHina. On the hand, I've seen/talked to quite a few NaruHina fans that don't like the SasuSaku pairing very much, so I'm inclined to think that, over here, SasuSaku is sort of on the tail end of things. But my personal experience might not be the most accurate one.

[Phantom_999]

anime filler, absolutely nothing to do with manga canon.

I know I'm saying thats what the Hinata fans on the anime story board were TRYING to do and failing miserably might I add

[Radra]

I've brought up these points too about Hinata, I don't believe Kishimoto has "just left it out because she's shy" That's not how Kishimoto writes. I think he's done it on purpose to show that Hinata isn't this perfect character the anime and fandom have created. I like how you spelled out the issues with Neiji in more detail than I have though. I focused more on the lack of concern she has shown in manga canon to Kurenai, who she was the favorite student of, and who stood up to her father for her benefit. One can't help but compare all the other favorite student and teacher bond (including Sakura to Tsunade, Naruto to Jiraiya, Shikamaru to Asuma, Lee to Gai, Minato to Jiraiya, etc... and see a stark difference. Even recent minor support characters like Karui and Omoi show an intense emotional bond to their sensei.)

Hinata may be a reflection of the Japanese "princess" type character who doesn't really see what is wrong with the system, and unconsciously puts Kurenai in the same "servant" role she puts Neiji, her bodyguard Koh, and anyone she's been taught to see as subordinate to her. Neiji in his part 1 rage rips open to the public the Hyuuga family mentality. Hinata never has been show to have ever had a thought of challenging it. Instead it's from Hinata's father to Neiji after he loses to Naruto that we see hints of how he recognized the injustice of the Hyuuga family system- I noticed he had not yet placed the caged bird seal on 8 year old Hanabi's forehead in part 1 (remember Neiji received his at 4)

You know my problem with this sort of posts? it's how some of you are blaming hinata for something that is caused by kishimoto. The issue with the way kishi develops hinata is that he focuses entirely on her feelings for naruto. This does not mean thaT the "Hinata character" doesn't care about anything else that in't naruto.

Take sakura for example. Her development is focused on team 7. Apart from chapter three, we have never seen sakura talk or show any concern for her parents. In fact when konoha was destroyed, did she think about her family? no, and family is one of the mot important things in this manga. But does this mean that she does not care about her family? of course not. The fault here is not sakura but kihi who simply decided not to show that aspect of sakura's development. This sort of reasoning should be applied to hinata.

We know Hinata has a nice, gentle and caring personality. Hinata in't perfect but she does care alot about her friends and family. Did she not worry about koh when he was injured? did she not protect neji from zetsu fodder? did Hiashi not say how Hinata and Neji are risking their likes to protect each other?

As for kurenai, you are basically singling out hinata. What about kiba and shino? have they shown any concern for kurenai? The fact is that kurenai and posibly kishimoto is the person to blame. Kurenai showed concern for hinata once in the preliminary fight and in the flash back and that was it. She never really made any effort to be close to hinata. Asuma for example gave shikamaru alternate tests and eventually spent time playing shougi on occasion with him. Gai made the effort to be close to lee giving him his signature suit and always training with him. Jiraiya went a far a to go on a trip with naruto. Tsunade spent so much time with sakura that she basically made her her right hand just like shizune. What real effort has kurenai made to be close to hinata?



In fact, when last have you seen Kurenai spend time with her team mates? We have seen kiba, shino and hinata spend time together so its not like they are always busy.

You can't blame hinata for kurenai not making any real effort to spend time with her. The fact is kurenai fell in love with asuma and basically ignored spending time with her own team. This is my opinion until the manga proves otherwise.



I hate hinata tards but i think some of you are being too unfair to hinata's character.

Dude I already knew that NH and SS are popular in the west while in the east after the yaoi pairings NS is the most popular in Japan. SS is probably the next one but NH is less popular its like a crack pairing.

What proof do you have of this? When I used to lurk Narutofan, the japanese pairing popularity list had SasuSaku as the most popular HET pairing, not NaruSaku. I was able to find the specific thread here -> http://www.narutofor...ad.php?t=317762

This was done in 2008 but even now things probably haven't changed much. For example the only notable thing hinata has done in part two was her confesion to naruto and that alone was able to make her surpass sakura in the latest manga character poll. Thi sort of hints that the japan fandom like naruhina and not just hinata as I do not think they would support hinata if she was doing something they did not like.

Even the anime naruhina fillers show that the japanese fandom really like naruhina. I remember there was an anime omake where hinata said naruto's name in different ways. It was apparently so popular in japan that they made an omake with sakura being jealous of that to the point that she decided to try and do the same thing.

These figures are gotten through japanese google and doing a quick search of the big three, the current results are

NaruSaku - 1,820,000
SasuSaku - 3,800,000
NaruHina - 10,200,000

This results shows how unreliable these statistics are.

Either way, I don't really believe in these character/pairing polls to be honest. The fact remains that narusaku is the most developed pairing in the manga but all these polls don't reflect that. I can't take them seriously.

Edited by Radra, 16 July 2011 - 09:45 AM.

[Phantom_999]

WOW what criticism...... Hey I get your point but that doesn't mean you have to be did respectful sure there might be some biase in those words but like you said It's because Hinata are BEING so obnoxious we can't help but feel like stepping on their toes a little because they ALWAYS bash Sakura for no reason so even we're not entirely unprejudiced okay? I don't hate Hinata but I don't favor her like her obsessers do and I don't think those "Naruto-kun" calls were cute it was those storyboard Hinata fans' idea. Probably Hinata is idolized because she's the ideal "trophy wife" you know, the damsel in distress, the stereotype of what girls are expected to be: pretty, quite, can cook and homely not loud strong willed and violent because those kinds of girls are looked as as b****es or lesbians so maybe that Accounts for the fan's views on Sakura and Hinata. By the way that person you were snapping at happens to be quite older than you so it's not polite to bark at your elders. anyway that poll you got the pairings from is a from Narutoforums.com that's a WESTERN site. Hinata Fans HAIL in North America and the west So you can not say THAT is a valid representation of every set of pairing fans world wide

[Radra]

WOW what criticism...... Hey I get your point but that doesn't mean you have to be did respectful sure there might be some biase in those words but like you said It's because Hinata are BEING so obnoxious we can't help but feel like stepping on their toes a little because they ALWAYS bash Sakura for no reason so even we're not entirely unprejudiced okay?

So it is okay to bash hinata for something that isn't her fault? this is exactly what sakura haters like to do. Do you want to become them?

Not all hinata fans mindlessly bash sakura. There are people on this site who are fans of hinata and i don't see them bashing sakura here. this alone kills your generalization. Every fandom has tards but don't ignore the sensible ones.

I completely understand critisim but blaming hinata for something that isn't her "fault" or over-downplaying every single thing she has done isn't critisim. That is just bashing.

By the way that person you were snapping at happens to be quite older than you so it's not polite to bark at your elders.

Barking? I just don't like it when people irrationally bash a character i like. That was the same reason why i left that kittenhole called narutofan. I know exactly who Ciadha is. I did not think my post to her was "disrespectfu"l but i'll be more careful with my words.

This doesn't really change my point to her though.

anyway that poll you got the pairings from is a from Narutoforums.com that's a WESTERN site. Hinata Fans HAIL in North America and the west So you can not say THAT is a valid representation of every set of pairing fans world wide

These statistics and polls in general are not a valid representation of the naruto pairing popularity. That was my overall point there. I brought up that statistic from narutofan because this was the statistics used to determine the popularity of naruto pairings. it wasn't a "narutofan" popularity poll.

Hinata has a huge fandom everywhere. Kishimoto himself pointed her popularity in japan an interview. This is not to mention the anime team constantly giving her special treatment. So no, hinata isn't only popular in the western fandom.

Edited by Radra, 16 July 2011 - 07:26 PM.