277 replies to this topic

[Broken Figurine]

Common advice in storytelling is to show, not tell. You could argue that Kishimoto could be guilty of this in many aspects of is hit series Naruto, but in the case of his widely popular character Hinata Hyuuga; it isn't so much what he's telling—or what he's showing. In a peculiar twist, the character's traits and appeal are largely due to what the readers tell us, not by what the characters say or show in the original work. This is a minor character that shows up every now and again, so fans have relatively little to work off of, but surely a small part does not a small character make. In her, albeit, limited scenes, according to her fanbase she has proven herself kind, timid, relatable, hard-working and inspirational; even going so far as to say she would make a better heroine than the current leading lady. She is a role model for people who face social anxieties, and has the insight and pure-heartedness of her archetype to be the first who has cheered on our down-hearted male lead, even if it was from the shadows where her feelings couldn’t reach him. Indeed, it seems like every scene is devoted to showing how timid this young lady is, and how she wants to become a stronger person by the example the titular character has shown us.

While this is fine and noble, there is something, something that has bugged me since my foray into the Naruto fandom about the love and appreciation this character gets. As far as the scenes have gone, for over a span of about 500+ chapters, that last aspect of her character is the only aspect of her character. Naruto, the character, is the centre of her universe. Fans and Kishimoto seem to propagate this idea, with constant references to her potential to be his love interest, and going so far as to see him as her Sun (which, coincidently, is the centre of our universe—go figure) in reference to her very name and character theme. For me, more startling than her constant referrals to him every time she happens to shows up, more upsetting is her lack of connection to anyone else.

There needs to be something said about this character’s history, of what was given to us (the anime likes to give us more, but I could see it as a ‘fan’ too). While details have been seldom explored, exposition via flashbacks has told us that she’s the heiress to a prominent clan which has a bloodline limit. Alright, so this makes the character a bit special. She has something that in a world of ninja gives her advantage to kick butt (something she was born with in a series that promotes winning by hard work) and it makes her to be likened to the status of a princess. She has been put down by for father for not being strong enough, all but abandoned by him, who favoured his younger but stronger daughter. Again, this is another piece to be able to relate to her. Winning the affection of those close around us, who we admire and love, is a universal thing, and not living up to our parents’ expectations is too. From wanting acknowledgment from a crush to a father, it is clear that this is a wholly sympathetic character and it would be understandable as to why—

Wait? What was that? There is something a little strange about this clan of her’s. Ah, right. Her family is divided by branch and by the main family. She is from the privileged main branch that gets to call all the shots and live happy and free, whereas all others who are not from that branch are forced to wear seals on their forehead and live in forced servitude or else be tortured to death). Now, Hinata has a cousin whose father died directly as a result of this, and who understandably is not so happy toward her. What would a kind-hearted person do in a situation like this? How would they confront the issue that what their family is doing is morally wrong, and that people close to that person are suffering because of it? Prove themselves that they are not the mean insults that the victim throws at them, of course.
Rather than sympathizing with her cousin, the issue when it was brought up was treated as Hinata’s time to shine. She is showing how she is able to fight back against her “fate” and not be a loser. Neji is the bad guy here, as he says the underdogs are doomed to be underdogs—and that is particularly insulting to our underdog main character too. Hinata offers no apology or goal to change the state of their clan. She wants to prove herself to Naruto, who is watching her, although she is fighting her cousin who lost a father because of her.

She is, of course, young and it could be said that she does not have the inner strength to go against the conventions of her family, or to see past Neji’s harsh exterior to the pained soul within. Unless, of course, Neji’s name is Naruto because even as a small child she could go against peer-pressure and Naruto’s bad behavior to see he was lonely and in need of acknowledgement, like her. Perhaps she does really feel badly about what happened, but because she’s shy and all, she can’t really communicate or show it.

Here is where fan speculation comes in. Being timid is a common excuse for this character not doing something that we think good people should do. Why doesn’t she ever approach Naruto, who is in desperate need for a friend? She is too shy, and perhaps her family wouldn’t let her hang out with someone like Naruto because of what he is (a common belief that was played out by the anime). Yes, she is shy, but the manga never states that the reason why she did not approach him is because her family forbade her. Furthermore, while Hinata does think back to watching Naruto and believing in him, there was never a flashback where she had expressed the same attention to Neji or a branch member. You never see her, standing behind a door, looking at her cousin and wishing she could find the strength within herself to reach out and comfort him. She is never depicted standing around, feeling powerless to watch as her father or someone else in authority tortures her family members. As readers, we just assume this goes on but because she’s a minor character, it’s not shown. It is filed under The Many Things Hinata Does That Kishimoto Can’t Show Us but Totally Intends for Her Character.

If Kishimoto intended for her to be sympathetic towards her cousin or more unfortunate family members, then why does he continue to have her focus be solely on Naruto? Her lack of interactions with other characters is hardly ever brought up by the Naruto fandom. She is an older sister, but that seems completely irrelevant as her sister has not showed up since the Chuunin exams. Her interaction with Neji should have been a lot more emphasized, but it seems Hinata only acts as another addition to his more tragic character. Kurenai had apparently acted like a mother to her when her father rejected her, yet she has yet to show any sorrow for the woman who lost her lover and has a child.

If we define good and kindness by a character not doing anything bad, then I suppose Hinata fits that description. Even in recent chapters now, where a “lot” (at least in comparison) has happened for her character, the issues don’t seem to have settled. Her confession for Naruto and her sacrifice display how devoted and in love her character is. She talks about admiring him, about how he inspired her, and then she confesses and tries to defend him in his hour of need. What I honestly wish she would have done, at the risk of sounding like a NejiHina fan, is if this sacrificing scene could have been used for her cousin instead. If Neji was the one in danger and she, as the Hyuuga heiress, had stepped in to save him even though he was a branch member, and told him that she’s watched him and her family suffer that she was sorry for what he had gone through, but at least she could do this much for him. It would have brought the issue with Neji’s father full circle, added depth to her character and insight on how she views her family, as well as beefing up the scenes in the recent chapters where she stands back to back with him.

The recent chapters suggest growth, but perhaps I’m a bit cynical after all this time, but merely putting characters side by side and fighting does not give character development. Sure, it seems that during the years they have reached some understanding, yet once again this is not shown throughout the manga. It feels tacked on, and I’m not convinced that they really, truly care or understand each other like it’s supposed to feel. No matter—fans can and have already done the telling. Oh, and we can’t forget Naruto. After all, failure is not an option because this war is protecting him. The fate of the world hangs on balance, too.

To conclude, Hinata doesn’t do enough to back up the claims of her character. Being timid does not equate to kindness and nurturing, people. She fits the archetype, so you would think she’s really sweet, but at the worst she comes off as an entirely shallow character. The character has no real interactions outside of her love interest—no goals, no thoughts, beyond him. I haven’t seen her helping anyone aside from him. Maybe that’s why her fans are largely NaruHina fans, because that is the only developed part of her.

I encourage people to show me manga evidence, not what you perceive of the character. For instance: "Her relationship with Kiba is a close one because she is his teammate and Hinata and Kiba have personalities that would mesh together" is character perception and speculation. Close with Kiba? How so? In these various panels, where she is shown having a conversation of a personal nature with him? That is my big issue. Who is Hinata, just from what the manga tells us, and how it is so many people praise her? I’m not sure anymore what this character should be outside of “Shy love interest of Naruto…Who is a Hyuuga.” I don't feel like I hate this character, so if this was taken as bashing I apologize, but it is probably the most confusing aspect of the Naruto fandom for me.

I'm not one to hate on character interpretations and discussions, or even buffing them up with your own conclusions, but when someone is so admired and praised to the extent she is, it makes me beg for some concrete evidence or someone to help me rationalize the appeal. Do the majority of fans just like someone innocent that they can take, create, and relate in whichever way they want? Is that why she is so preferred by many people?

[catsi563]

There is no concrete evidence of any sort for the character.

If you go by the manga evidence as it stands the character has one GLARING flaw. It is that she absolutley has not changed in the slightest. She is still shy, and timid around the main character and still holds him up to admiration.

Even her confession was a self character driven moment based on a singular (again self admitted) act of selfishness that enabled her to do something shed always wanted to do.

she out of all the rookies has less panel time then any of them with the possible exception of Shino and TenTen. I personaly agree with you. Where this shallow and stereotypical (read cliched) character of limited importance and scope has gained this incredible popularity is beyond me.

She quite literaly could be written out of the manga in a single go and would not be missed in the slightest. There is not a single scene shes had in the manga that could not be done by a different character and still had the same impact or even a bigger impact.

The only rational explanation I can provide is self character insert though even that falls short because realisticlaly Sakura falls closer to that interpretation being the more normal of the two fo them.

Edited by catsi563, 09 June 2011 - 06:21 AM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

The only rational explanation I can provide is self character insert though even that falls short because realisticlaly Sakura falls closer to that interpretation being the more normal of the two fo them.

It's that whole 'fanboy' thing. There is a whole subculture of 'Otaku' who consistently gravitate to the 'shy, awkward, cute, quiet' characters. Hinata falls into this trap setup perfectly. It's just a projection of what these people want in someone. Someone who will look up to them and admire them faithfully, almost obsessively because perhaps they aren't getting any of that in their real lives. I'm not trying to fully generalize here, but there is a subculture of anime/manga fans who love these type of 'moe' characters.

[Kamina-Yoshi]

I see her as the 'Ginny Weasely' of Naruto. Every series has a Ginny Weasely, no matter how far-flung it may be. The author decides to add a secondary character with romantic intentions for the main-character, and there are two routes to take here:

1) Completely throw away all other canon and plot of the story and simply stick the main-character with the newly formed 'Ginny', whether boy or girl,

or

2) Either neglect the character in a whole or develop the character without the use of the main character.

There is no basis for her/him to be here, so there are these two options to be taken. The first one is a powerful disappointment only used to side with one side of the fandom, if your character is described with enough sparkles/'feminine/masculine features', and the other is basically developing them as just another character who could help the story along instead of ruining it for others. Sure, some people will be disappointed, but it'll be better than throwing away everything you've done just to please one portion of your fan-base and to grievously insult your own ability as an author. Let me get this straight for all of you: I grew up with Naruto, but as of recently I've stopped reading it due to lack of personal interest. However, if Kishimoto were to take the First Ginny Route, he will have lost my respect as a writer as well as a story-teller. The first one, in this case, is mindless padding and simply obtuse yearning.

[Sakura Blossoms]

However, if Kishimoto were to take the First Ginny Route, he will have lost my respect as a writer as well as a story-teller. The first one, in this case, is mindless padding and simply obtuse yearning.

That's pretty much how I feel about Rowling.

[Amrikandesi93]

I wonder if anyone has read Lord of the Rings? Tolkien added the same type of character but instead chose to have Aragorn end up with the girl that was hinted at first. I hope Kishi takes a page out of J.R.R. Tolkien's book and Pushes NH away

[Nate River]

she out of all the rookies has less panel time then any of them with the possible exception of Shino and TenTen. I personaly agree with you. Where this shallow and stereotypical (read cliched) character of limited importance and scope has gained this incredible popularity is beyond me

No rookie has less development than TenTen.

At least Hinata has a surname and backstory. Shino has a surname and an identified dad. TenTen, doesn't have even that much. Do we know anything about her other than she likes to use weapons?

She's the epitome of a token female, which is unfortunate because I'm interested in learning more about her than Hinata.

[Strangelove]

As a selling point strategy. Hinata fits perfectly for Western readers who like was said before...are Otaku...[whatever that means]

[Verilance]

That's pretty much how I feel about Rowling.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this, upon reading the first book many years ago, two things were brilliantly clear to me.

-Ron and Hermione would have a relationship of some kind

-Snape was in love with Harry's mum

[K9ofChaos]

Boy that was a long read. But I'll give my two cents into this topic anyways.


There's one aspect to Hinata's popularity that can best be described in two simple words.


Sex. Appeal.


I think one of the main reasons why Hinata is so popular in the first place is because she has big breast. If any anime/manga series has at least one female character with enormous breast, odds are said character is going to garner a huge fan-base. Hell, some naruhina fans go so far as to use the argument that Naruto should get together with Hinata is because she has bigger breast than Sakura and take it one step further by claiming that Sakura is flat-chested (which has been proven false by ciardha many times on this forum and stated that Sakura is a B-cup at the very least). Add Hinata's bust, along with her moe characteristics can cater to any fanboys sexual fantasies and desires. These types of fans would want a sexy gal like Hinata to end up with the main character of the series so that he can be living there fantasies and just imagine themselves in those types of situations the couple would be in sexually or romantically if worse case scenario they don't get out often and aren't good with getting attention from the fair sex.


The way I see it, if a female character is sexually attractive to the opposite gender, then people aren't going to care if she's relevant to the plot or not. As long as this hot chick gets together with the main protagonist, they'll be perfectly content with the story without questioning the writing skills of the creator.

[Strangelove]

Boy that was a long read. But I'll give my two cents into this topic anyways.


There's one aspect to Hinata's popularity that can best be described in two simple words.


Sex. Appeal.


I think one of the main reasons why Hinata is so popular in the first place is because she has big breast. If any anime/manga series has at least one female character with enormous breast, odds are said character is going to garner a huge fan-base. Hell, some naruhina fans go so far as to use the argument that Naruto should get together with Hinata is because she has bigger breast than Sakura and take it one step further by claiming that Sakura is flat-chested (which has been proven false by ciardha many times on this forum and stated that Sakura is a B-cup at the very least). Add Hinata's bust, along with her moe characteristics can cater to any fanboys sexual fantasies and desires. These types of fans would want a sexy gal like Hinata to end up with the main character of the series so that he can be living there fantasies and just imagine themselves in those types of situations the couple would be in sexually or romantically if worse case scenario they don't get out often and aren't good with getting attention from the fair sex.


The way I see it, if a female character is sexually attractive to the opposite gender, then people aren't going to care if she's relevant to the plot or not. As long as this hot chick gets together with the main protagonist, they'll be perfectly content with the story without questioning the writing skills of the creator.

Yup, that's exactly what it is. Even when Kishi gives Sakura the most panel time of any female character he has...and that is true, she has had more panel time than anyone, she is still hated by most Hinata fans, considering she is the main protagonist.

I don't know how people can get aroused from drawings...srsly...

Edited by Strangelove, 09 June 2011 - 09:38 PM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Every time I see a NaruHina or Hinata fanboy/fangirl, I'm going to link them to this thread. You have said everything perfectly, and I agree with you 100%. Excellent job, Broken_Figurine; you have earned a lot of my respect.

Boy that was a long read. But I'll give my two cents into this topic anyways.


There's one aspect to Hinata's popularity that can best be described in two simple words.


Sex. Appeal.


I think one of the main reasons why Hinata is so popular in the first place is because she has big breast. If any anime/manga series has at least one female character with enormous breast, odds are said character is going to garner a huge fan-base. Hell, some naruhina fans go so far as to use the argument that Naruto should get together with Hinata is because she has bigger breast than Sakura and take it one step further by claiming that Sakura is flat-chested (which has been proven false by ciardha many times on this forum and stated that Sakura is a B-cup at the very least). Add Hinata's bust, along with her moe characteristics can cater to any fanboys sexual fantasies and desires. These types of fans would want a sexy gal like Hinata to end up with the main character of the series so that he can be living there fantasies and just imagine themselves in those types of situations the couple would be in sexually or romantically if worse case scenario they don't get out often and aren't good with getting attention from the fair sex.


The way I see it, if a female character is sexually attractive to the opposite gender, then people aren't going to care if she's relevant to the plot or not. As long as this hot chick gets together with the main protagonist, they'll be perfectly content with the story without questioning the writing skills of the creator.

Am I the only one that's hardly ever found Hinata attractive at all?

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 09 June 2011 - 10:00 PM.

[Anguyen92]

Every time I see a NaruHina or Hinata fanboy/fangirl, I'm going to link them to this thread. You have said everything perfectly, and I agree with you 100%. Excellent job, Broken_Figurine; you have earned a lot of my respect.


Am I the only one that's hardly ever found Hinata attractive at all?

Ehhh, she's all right, the thing that kind of creeps me up are her big jugs, other than that she's all right. Their fandom kinda blows every moment they think is a moment out of proportion, which is normal fanbase behavior. I just wish they would stop burying Sakura though.

Edited by anguyen92, 09 June 2011 - 10:05 PM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Ehhh, she's all right.

I suppose, but "alright" is the best she'll get from me. Seriously, big boobs does not equal "attractive". I'll be honest, I don't like Hinata or Sakura that much, but I can admit honestly that Sakura is much prettier than Hinata. Why? The only things Hinata has going for her are her timid personality and her jugs. Sakura? She has just about everything else (including character development and relevance to the plot; I know that that doesn't have anything to do with attractiveness, but I just had to throw that in there).

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 09 June 2011 - 10:11 PM.

[Fliss]

Every time I see a NaruHina or Hinata fanboy/fangirl, I'm going to link them to this thread. You have said everything perfectly, and I agree with you 100%. Excellent job, Broken_Figurine; you have earned a lot of my respect.


Am I the only one that's hardly ever found Hinata attractive at all?

Haha well I can't say since I'm a girl but my brother always told me how he thought she was ugly. But her fans made her whole character ugly in my eyes, which is sad but all the worship totally turned me off.

Edited by Fliss, 09 June 2011 - 10:09 PM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Haha well I can't say since I'm a girl but my brother always told me how he thought she was ugly. But her fans made her ugly in my eyes, which is sad but all the worship totally turned me off.

Get your brother over here so I can give the dude a high five

[Sakura Blossoms]

The way I see it, if a female character is sexually attractive to the opposite gender, then people aren't going to care if she's relevant to the plot or not. As long as this hot chick gets together with the main protagonist, they'll be perfectly content with the story without questioning the writing skills of the creator.

Exactly. Stated perfectly.

Am I the only one that's hardly ever found Hinata attractive at all?

Nope. Not the only one.

But her fans made her whole character ugly in my eyes, which is sad but all the worship totally turned me off.

Exactly again. That's one of the biggest turn-offs for me for her character. Her fanbase just ruins the character for me.

[Strangelove]

For me Hinata has fit more as a marketing strategy than an actual main pairing. She is used to get readers that are more into the shy girl with big bazoonkas who happens to like the main character. I don't think Kishi is trolling anyone, i think he is doing what every smart business person would do.

A second consideration was...why wasn't Hinata there for Naruto when he was at the academy, and everyone in the village despised him? This is where the NH fans basically shut down, a question that they cannot answer. Doing bad is one thing, but seeing bad being done, and just sitting there being a witness without doing something about it, is quite another.

[Amrikandesi93]

Every time I see a NaruHina or Hinata fanboy/fangirl, I'm going to link them to this thread. You have said everything perfectly, and I agree with you 100%. Excellent job, Broken_Figurine; you have earned a lot of my respect.


Am I the only one that's hardly ever found Hinata attractive at all?

That's exactly what i was about to say, i never really thought about her like that, and i thought actually Sakura was better than her

Edited by Amrikandesi93, 09 June 2011 - 11:26 PM.