54188 replies to this topic

[Smiter]

Since the debate thread has reached over 1000 pages, it's time to start a new one!

Link to old Debate Thread

Please follow these rules when debating!

• No bashing
  

  Character/pairing/fandom/member bashing is NOT allowed, period. Any and all members engaging in bashing will be dealt with by the forum's moderators. Examples of bashing are:
  
  "Haha, (pairing name) sucks."
  "(fandom name) fans don't know what they're talking about."
  "(character name) is useless/stupid/a b*tch."
  "(member name) is a dumb*ss to really believe that, because it's not what *I* believe in."
  
  You get the gist. If you want to disagree with an argument/theory/opinion, you can do it without bashing (see below).

• Objection!
  

  If you disagree with an argument/theory/opinion, please show your logical reasoning why, and show evidence wherever possible.
  
  Good: "I feel this theory doesn't stand up because... (quote manga evidence)"
  Bad: "They don't know what they're talking about, lol."

• Quote carefully!
  

  If you only want to agree with a post, please don't quote it! It's OK to just use their name, like so:
  
  @AwesomeDebater
  I agree!
  
  It's OK to quote posts if you want to highlight/debate certain points, but please try to avoid quoting posts in their entireity.
  

• Acceptable Evidence
  

  Only manga chapters, official databook entries, and Masashi Kishimoto interviews may be accepted as evidence. The Naruto anime and movies cannot be accepted as evidence, because they often devitate from canon. If possible, link to the evidence (such as manga pages on OneManga) so everyone can see what you're talking about.
  

• Poke at it!
  

  Even if it's a theory/argument that supports the pairing you like, don't be afraid to poke a stick at it! If it feels flimsy to you, point it out and give your reasoning why.

• No spam
  

  This thread is for debating ONLY. Any off-topic/spam posts that don't contribute to debates will be deleted.

Keep it clean and respectful.

[rikakim94]

I must confess sometimes I am tired with all the pairing stuff and anything and want for everything to end... because I am sick of the majority of this fandom, tbh.
I mean I am grateful that I met people like you guys but the rest... oh, God, why?!

I have to confess, back in around 2008 i actually got fed up with the naruto fanbase. I couldn't take the growing hate for a character like sakura and narusaku, that was untill one day i decided to go and the naruto forum in tv.com. ohhh i regret doing that what made matter much worse was the fact that i think this was the same time sakuras confession came out. I know why some people got upset over it because it was frustrating and confusing even i felt that way. Any how there was one ns and sakura fan that was having problems defending his pairing because of what just happened. Rather than, helping the poor guy to keep incourging his ship really ribid nh shippers ambushed him by bashing on sakura and narusaku it got to point where the ns fan snapped and all of the sudden he stared to go everything aganist his ship. Do what happens next? he himself became an ribid nh fan he started cursing, bashing and hating other nh fans started to join along with him it just become total chaos. whats even sadder is the fact there some people that told them to calm down rather than listening to them they just kept going.

This is when i finally decided to get out of that tv.com forum and never ever come back same goes for any other naruto forums and youtube . However that was untill i found this website hoping that it wouldn't be the same as other forums and it wasn't i was very happy about it. Since then i was lurking in this website untill i finally decided to join this website in 2011 i do feel more safe in this website and i hope the site stays this way ontill the manga ends.

[Branden]

RIP the old debate thread

[HauntedCake]

RIP old debate thread... we have to let this go to 2k pages this time

[TouKen4Life3g]

Wow, a new debate thread. Nice. Thank you.

To answer the last thread, well apparently someone has said that I'm an anti-Sakura because she loves Sasuke and if I want NS, I got to be an anti. I don't get it at all...

[PhenixElite]

LOl already 1000 pages the day i joined it had only about 200.

@NaruSaku4Life3g: In this forum?

Edited by PhenixElite, 16 May 2013 - 08:51 PM.

[Chatte]

Hang on. What's going on? Actually, I got a bash pm just earlier today.

So it was this anon on Tumblr asking me about NS and why do I think Sakura's love for Naruto might be romantic, about the comparison with MinaKushi and everything.
At first, I talked nicely to her/him whatever... but then I saw a message on a SS fan on Tumblr in which she was referring exactly at what I have said and called me arrogant. Behind my back. Didn't even had the courage to kittening face me!

Here is the message that made me discover the anon was trashing my opinions

THANK YOU! I couldn't have say it better, I think that's one of the thing that annoys me the most, the NS-shippers rely WAY TO MUCH on parallels like MinaKushi and when I point that to them they say "it's just additional stuff" like wtf don't base 60% of your ship on "additional stuff" then. Have you ever seen SasuSaku theories that relies on parallels ? Nope me neither. We focus on Sasuke and Sakura and only them. They should back off a little and quit being arrogant or the fall might be brutal"

When she asked me about MinaKushi in the beginning, I said we don't use that as proof. "It's just additional stuff, if you wanna call it like that".
Then she goes to this SS user I am following on Tumblr because she does make good posts about Sakura and sends that message to her and BAM, I discover who it is.
People like these DISGUST ME!
Sometimes I just want to punch them in the face. I mean, I am kittening nice to you and try to explain you something nicely so you can see my point of view and then you go through my back and call me arrogant? kitten OFF!
God, I swear I hate them! I hate these people....
Anyway, sorry I lashed out... I kinda felt the need... And if I get a warning or so, so be it, but I needed to get this out of my chest.

I have to confess, back in around 2008 i actually got fed up with the naruto fanbase. I couldn't take the growing hate for a character like sakura and narusaku, that was untill one day i decided to go and the naruto forum in tv.com. ohhh i regret doing that what made matter much worse was the fact that i think this was the same time sakuras confession came out. I know why some people got upset over it because it was frustrating and confusing even i felt that way. Any how there was one ns and sakura fan that was having problems defending his pairing because of what just happened. Rather than, helping the poor guy to keep incourging his ship really ribid nh shippers ambushed him by bashing on sakura and narusaku it got to point where the ns fan snapped and all of the sudden he stared to go everything aganist his ship. Do what happens next? he himself became an ribid nh fan he started cursing, bashing and hating other nh fans started to join along with him it just become total chaos. whats even sadder is the fact there some people that told them to calm down rather than listening to them they just kept going.

This is when i finally decided to get out of that tv.com forum and never ever come back same goes for any other naruto forums and youtube . However that was untill i found this website hoping that it wouldn't be the same as other forums and it wasn't i was very happy about it. Since then i was lurking in this website untill i finally decided to join this website in 2011 i do feel more safe in this website and i hope the site stays this way ontill the manga ends.

I know the feeling, I so damn know it! THANKS GOD FOR THIS PLACE and I MEAN IT!
I got so emotionally invested in all of this that I think of getting a pause, but I can't. I'm literally addicted to it... So I can't stay back...
Gah, why did I had to get involved in this? Why? I just want it to finish sometimes, really.

Edited by Chatte, 16 May 2013 - 08:54 PM.

[sushi.]

Well.. tumblr is a nasty place. And yeah you'll probably get a warning.

Defending your favourite fiction is great, but don't take it to the heart like someone just insulted your mother. It's not healthy, Chatte.

Gah, why did I had to get involved in this? Why? I just want it to finish sometimes, really.

I too got involved in a pairing fight. XD I'm seeking to put my 'opponent' in a corner rather than lashing out, but if you wanna see me rage..check out kingoflighting and forneverworld's reviews. XD I think I'm gonna tone it down a bit though. My comments are put as trash, but some praised me too.

Edited by sushi., 16 May 2013 - 08:57 PM.

[六道仙人]

You see, Chatte... For these reason I gave up to debating with them since time immemorial... Because, no mater what you say, they always twist your words and lack respect about your opinions. Of course, luckly there are some exceptions but it's also rare.

[rikakim94]

You see, Chatte... For these reason I gave up to debating with them since time immemorial... Because, no mater what you say, they always twist your words and lack respect about your opinions. Of course, luckly there are some exceptions but it's also rare.

I agree with you to that's why i don't go into other forums and you tube to much headache.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Going by some of the responses I'm seeing, I'm going to re-post here something tricksie recently posted, that *everyone* posting in this thread really needs to read and follow for when you make future posts -

Should we simply avoid talking about other fandoms(particularly YT reviewers) too much? Or should be stop when we're getting too fired up/when you tell us to stop? Or should we not talk about it at all because it only leads to bashing?

Good question. Lots of times, blanket requests get interpreted in many different ways.

The problem isn't in talking about other fandoms, but that the prolonged discussion often derails the thread and leads to bashing (directly or indirectly).

So....

Should we simply avoid talking about other fandoms(particularly YT reviewers) too much?

No, but it should be kept to a minimum, and only to compare specific things that have to do with the topic/chapter. Not huge sweeping stereotypes of fandoms, and not nit-picky singling out of a NF or YT reviewer.

Or should we stop when we're getting too fired up/when you tell us to stop?

Lol, yeah, we do hope if a mod steps in the bashing will stop! But we're all part of a community, so if other users are asking for the conversation to be toned down or back on topic, then that's a good sign that things are beginning to get out of hand.

Or should we not talk about it at all because it only leads to bashing?

Well, those things tend to quickly snowball into bashing. So maybe instead of talking about issues in terms of how screwed up another fandom is (eg, "NH-ers always say Sakura is too violent!"), rephrase your thoughts so the other people can comment as well ("Why do some fans think she's too violent? Where's the proof?"). Keeping the focus on the manga or the anime and not the fandom lets other people respond without jumping on the bashing bandwagon.

Hope this helps. Thanks for posting this here, instead of in the chapter thread, so everyone else can weigh in too!

[Chatte]

You know why I feel hurt? Because that person seemed nice so I said, niice, I am going to have a nice debate and see where this leads, share info and opinions. It's going to be really cool.
I really love to debate with opposite fandoms in nice terms... But when I see this? THIS? I cannot get over it so easy... I mean, I try to be the good guy and you treat me like this? Hell no!
Pfft, funny how I didn't had time to respond before now and I was so stressed that I couldn't because I didn't want her to consider me a bad person and then I discover this piece of ... whatever. Funny how fate works sometimes...

[TouKen4Life3g]

LOl already 1000 pages the day i joined it had only about 200.

@NaruSaku4Life3g: In this forum?

Of course not. In NF.

@Chatte: Wow, that's some story. Well just let them be. I just wish I can say the same for them. Anyway, let's just focus on NS and all the evidences as well as predictions in here. No need to get mad for something that can be easily avoided.

[sushi.]

Going by some of the responses I'm seeing, I'm going to re-post here something tricksie recently posted, that *everyone* posting in this thread really needs to read and follow for when you make future posts -

What do you mean by 'everyone'? I didn't bash any of the reviewers I mentioned.

[Chatte]

Of course not. In NF.

@Chatte: Wow, that's some story. Well just let them be. I just wish I can say the same for them. Anyway, let's just focus on NS and all the evidences as well as predictions in here. No need to get mad for something that can be easily avoided.

I wished I could've avoided it but she was the one approaching me. Usually I don't go into debates with others myself. I just enjoy NS. But she was the one coming to my Tumblr and asking all those questions and everything so I wasn't the one picking-up a debate. But I said to be the nice girl yet I get that crap.
Anyway, I'm done with it.

[TouKen4Life3g]

What do you mean by 'everyone'? I didn't bash any of the reviewers I mentioned.

It's just a way of saying everyone who comes to that, not saying we all did. Basically, it's a heads up.

I wished I could've avoided it but she was the one approaching me. Usually I don't go into debates with others myself. I just enjoy NS. But she was the one coming to my Tumblr and asking all those questions and everything so I wasn't the one picking-up a debate. But I said to be the nice girl yet I get that crap.
Anyway, I'm done with it.

Indeed. So, it seems Minato only remembers up to Kyuubi incident. Luckily, he remembers the last words from Kushina, so parallel is still up in the air.

[HauntedCake]

THANK YOU! I couldn't have say it better, I think that's one of the thing that annoys me the most, the NS-shippers rely WAY TO MUCH on parallels like MinaKushi and when I point that to them they say "it's just additional stuff" like wtf don't base 60% of your ship on "additional stuff" then. Have you ever seen SasuSaku theories that relies on parallels ? Nope me neither. We focus on Sasuke and Sakura and only them. They should back off a little and quit being arrogant or the fall might be brutal"

Out of how many of those theories does it not have to rely on Sakura carrying the pairing??

I think they have the "sasuke has secret feelings for sakura" one,

Sasuke will bridal save sakura???

er.....


er....ummm

Sakura will revert to part 1???


Think that's it.... ill add more if i see em.

Any of those usable to make SS convincing???

[TrueSacrifice]

There is a very good reason I only post on this site when it comes to pairing related discussion. That's not to say that valid arguments can't be posed by opposite sides but so often the sides are so biased and unwavering in viewpoint that discussions devolve into petty arguments and personal attacks.

I don't care about winning the pairing war or anything like that. I'm not here to say "I told you so" to the "losing sides." I don't involve myself enough to really care about that I guess. I just want to see the story I've been following have a satisfactory resolution. That resolution just so happens to include Naruto and Sakura being together by the end.

[Chatte]

Out of how many of those theories does it not have to rely on Sakura carrying the pairing??

I think they have the "sasuke has secret feelings for sakura" one,

Sasuke will bridal save sakura???

er.....


er....ummm

Sakura will revert to part 1???


Think that's it.... ill add more if i see em.

Any of those usable to make SS convincing???

The thing is I never trashed their opinion and I try to be as nice as possible and back up my claims why I believe this and that but when people do this to me, sorry, but I cannot hold it...

As for what you pointed NS4Life, really interesting. Let's hope something like that will be brought-up. Even if it will be subtle. We don't need it to be 'obvious' because we're ninjas. We see underneath the underneath.

Edited by Chatte, 16 May 2013 - 09:44 PM.

[rikakim94]

I did say something out of frustration to about other naruto forums and everything.

But when i looked at the much older ns debate thread i realized how much things have changed, there were more people that debated to.

I guess when the manga quality drops people stop reading, they go aganist there own ships and people talk about how other reviewers are annoying and so on and such.

we should try to focus more on ns and whats going on in the manga.

Edited by rikakim94, 16 May 2013 - 09:48 PM.