101 replies to this topic

[Baguette]

First, I should clear any potential misconceptions that might have stemmed from the thread title: This is not a thread made to argue against NaruSaku.
I am a staunch NaruSaku supporter, and will often debate with other people over at NarutoBase in support of this pairing (and Sakura herself). I just want to get other people's opinions.

Although most of the "arguments" given by NaruHina fans are easily countered and horribly biased at best, the following reasons are some of the few that actually made me think.
For a couple of these, I already have responses floating around in my head, but I really would like to get a good idea of what you guys think and how you would respond so that I can better reinforce my perspective in the future.
Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks!

1) Hinata's Interference during the Pain fight
Us NaruSaku fans like to argue that Hinata's attempted "rescue" of Naruto was a selfish and pointless act- that it did nothing but cause further distress for Naruto and show just how little Hinata truly understands his desires.
A different point of view, however:

Do you not think that the fight had gone beyond the point of interference? He was pinned and unable to move, and moments from being... captured/killed/unsure-but-bad-things. Hinata admitted, largely, to being selfish (because she knew she would be unlikely to be able to save him).
Naruto had, seemingly, already given in to the idea that he would end up being captured - but still have largely succeeded in protecting his friends (assuming Pain simply left). It was also implied that he was at the limits of his Nindo (without relying on the fox and endangering his friends).
Hinata's Nindo overlapped and conflicted somewhat with his. Naruto's desire to not have his friends interfere was ultimately a desire for the same thing that was about to happen in chapter 615. Hinata was not about to give up on herself, or on Naruto - and decided that it was time to act regardless of the odds and consequences be damned. ~Aim64C of NB

2) Hinata understands Naruto more than Sakura ever could
Credit to Chatte for posing this question back then:
"Please explain how Hinata understands Naruto's bond with Sasuke, how she understands his loneliness, how she understands his complexes, how she understands that he needs to be cared for from time to time, how she understands his sensei's death."
The response:

She had a cousin who hated her existence - a father who considered her useless and turned her over to Kurenai as a lost cause. She's spent a considerable portion of her life merely wanting to be recognized as valid.
As for Sasuke - she's chased after Naruto and held a torch for Naruto for some time - while that's understanding on a tangent - it's something for her to empathize with. Though true empathy is, to some degree, understanding that there can only be so much empathy - so much understanding. She's also lost Neji - who was something of a brother, but a slightly different context than Naruto with Sasuke (though she did have to deal with Neji being caught up in revenge).
Losing a Sensei... well, she's currently lost Neji - who, if I remember correctly, is stated to have been training her. Again - something of a tangent and not exact. Though, for Naruto losing his sensei was less of losing a teacher and more of him losing a father (after not having one). Hinata was thrown to Kurenai by her father with the parting words of: "Don't care, she's useless to me."
There are small parallels that can give hinges for empathy. But, as I said - empathy is also understanding that you can never be the other person or completely experience their pain.

If Sakura understood Naruto better, then why was Sakura unable to reach through to Naruto's walls of "I don't deserve..." that Hinata so effortlessly shattered?
The answer is simple: Sakura doesn't really see that the wall exists. She hasn't been lonely - not like Naruto has. She's never felt the isolation of no one wanting you. The only thing she really empathizes strongly with Naruto is her feelings of loss over Sasuke... and even then - Sasuke was, quite literally, a brother to Naruto (or the only thing he could begin to identify as a brother). He was a friend and eye-candy to Sakura. ~Aim64C

3) Yamato himself was enraged at Sakura for her fake confession
We like to cite Yamato's line at the Heaven and Earth bridge as proof that Sakura possibly loves Naruto.
However, his reaction during Sakura's confession was one of suspicion and anger. If this doesn't almost retcon his line from before, it at the very least shows that he could tell Sakura was lying about loving Naruto at that moment.

4) Sai acknowledges Sakura loves Sasuke
We use Sai's flashback as proof of Naruto's love for Sakura. But after the fake confession, while Sai is revealing Sakura's true intentions for confessing to Naruto, he states that because of Sakura's love for Sasuke, she plans to kill him herself to make sure Sasuke doesn't sink any lower on the path of darkness. She may have Naruto's feelings at heart, but her main motivation remains to be Sasuke himself.


As to an analysis of Sakura herself:
While Sakura was awesome indeed during the Kazekage Rescue Arc, she has regressed horribly since then:
-Despite having specifically trained in evasion as a medic, one of the first things she does at the Heaven and Earth bridge is get knocked out and depend on Yamato to rescue her. When she awakes, she then runs crying towards Naruto, who is in his Four-Tails form. This serves as a reminder of her past role as a useless damsel in distress who simply serves to bring drama into a situation.
-The same thing happens in their first encounter with Sasuke, where she is the first one to get knocked out, and stays out of action for the rest of the confrontation.
-After the destruction of Konoha by Pain, she is the one who screams out helplessly for Naruto, again fulfilling her role as a person on the sidelines simply used to add dramatic flair to a situation
-During the second Team 7 confrontation, she puts herself in a damsel in distress situation as Sasuke is about to drive a Chidori through her chest. It's up to Kakashi to come and save her.
Later on in the fight the same exact thing happens again: she idiotically puts herself in danger and Naruto has to come to her rescue at the very last second.
-Despite being the one to uncover the plot involving White Zetsu, Sakura herself is tricked the next day by the Zetsus in disguise, and once again, Naruto must come rescue her from her damsel in distress role.

Really, it's as if Kishi dedicated an arc to her character development, then as soon as it was it was over let her return to the way she was for majority of Part 1: a useless damsel in distress. In this sense, she is not deserving of her title as the apparent "heroine" of the series.



How would you personally counter some of these arguments? Or are they legitimate reasons as to why NaruHina is the better pairing and why Sakura makes a bad heroine?


*edited the title, hopefully it sounds a lot tamer now. Sorry about that

Edited by Baguette, 25 February 2013 - 04:00 PM.

[StrikerTheNoble]

First, I should clear any potential misconceptions that might have stemmed from the thread title: This is not a thread made to argue against NaruSaku.
I am a staunch NaruSaku supporter, and will often debate with other people over at NarutoBase in support of this pairing (and Sakura herself). I just want to get other people's opinions.

Although most of the "arguments" given by NaruHina fans are easily countered and horribly biased at best, the following reasons are some of the few that actually made me think.
For a couple of these, I already have responses floating around in my head, but I really would like to get a good idea of what you guys think and how you would respond so that I can better reinforce my perspective in the future.
Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks!

1) Hinata's Interference during the Pain fight
Us NaruSaku fans like to argue that Hinata's attempted "rescue" of Naruto was a selfish and pointless act- that it did nothing but cause further distress for Naruto and show just how little Hinata truly understands his desires.
A different point of view, however:

Do you not think that the fight had gone beyond the point of interference? He was pinned and unable to move, and moments from being... captured/killed/unsure-but-bad-things. Hinata admitted, largely, to being selfish (because she knew she would be unlikely to be able to save him).
Naruto had, seemingly, already given in to the idea that he would end up being captured - but still have largely succeeded in protecting his friends (assuming Pain simply left). It was also implied that he was at the limits of his Nindo (without relying on the fox and endangering his friends).
Hinata's Nindo overlapped and conflicted somewhat with his. Naruto's desire to not have his friends interfere was ultimately a desire for the same thing that was about to happen in chapter 615. Hinata was not about to give up on herself, or on Naruto - and decided that it was time to act regardless of the odds and consequences be damned. ~Aim64C of NB

2) Hinata understands Naruto more than Sakura ever could
Credit to Chatte for posing this question back then:
"Please explain how Hinata understands Naruto's bond with Sasuke, how she understands his loneliness, how she understands his complexes, how she understands that he needs to be cared for from time to time, how she understands his sensei's death."
The response:

She had a cousin who hated her existence - a father who considered her useless and turned her over to Kurenai as a lost cause. She's spent a considerable portion of her life merely wanting to be recognized as valid.
As for Sasuke - she's chased after Naruto and held a torch for Naruto for some time - while that's understanding on a tangent - it's something for her to empathize with. Though true empathy is, to some degree, understanding that there can only be so much empathy - so much understanding. She's also lost Neji - who was something of a brother, but a slightly different context than Naruto with Sasuke (though she did have to deal with Neji being caught up in revenge).
Losing a Sensei... well, she's currently lost Neji - who, if I remember correctly, is stated to have been training her. Again - something of a tangent and not exact. Though, for Naruto losing his sensei was less of losing a teacher and more of him losing a father (after not having one). Hinata was thrown to Kurenai by her father with the parting words of: "Don't care, she's useless to me."
There are small parallels that can give hinges for empathy. But, as I said - empathy is also understanding that you can never be the other person or completely experience their pain.

If Sakura understood Naruto better, then why was Sakura unable to reach through to Naruto's walls of "I don't deserve..." that Hinata so effortlessly shattered?
The answer is simple: Sakura doesn't really see that the wall exists. She hasn't been lonely - not like Naruto has. She's never felt the isolation of no one wanting you. The only thing she really empathizes strongly with Naruto is her feelings of loss over Sasuke... and even then - Sasuke was, quite literally, a brother to Naruto (or the only thing he could begin to identify as a brother). He was a friend and eye-candy to Sakura. ~Aim64C

3) Yamato himself was enraged at Sakura for her fake confession
We like to cite Yamato's line at the Heaven and Earth bridge as proof that Sakura possibly loves Naruto.
However, his reaction during Sakura's confession was one of suspicion and anger. If this doesn't almost retcon his line from before, it at the very least shows that he could tell Sakura was lying about loving Naruto at that moment.

4) Sai acknowledges Sakura loves Sasuke
We use Sai's flashback as proof of Naruto's love for Sakura. But after the fake confession, while Sai is revealing Sakura's true intentions for confessing to Naruto, he states that because of Sakura's love for Sasuke, she plans to kill him herself to make sure Sasuke doesn't sink any lower on the path of darkness. She may have Naruto's feelings at heart, but her main motivation remains to be Sasuke himself.


As to an analysis of Sakura herself:
While Sakura was awesome indeed during the Kazekage Rescue Arc, she has regressed horribly since then:
-Despite having specifically trained in evasion as a medic, one of the first things she does at the Heaven and Earth bridge is get knocked out and depend on Yamato to rescue her. When she awakes, she then runs crying towards Naruto, who is in his Four-Tails form. This serves as a reminder of her past role as a useless damsel in distress who simply serves to bring drama into a situation.
-The same thing happens in their first encounter with Sasuke, where she is the first one to get knocked out, and stays out of action for the rest of the confrontation.
-After the destruction of Konoha by Pain, she is the one who screams out helplessly for Naruto, again fulfilling her role as a person on the sidelines simply used to add dramatic flair to a situation
-During the second Team 7 confrontation, she puts herself in a damsel in distress situation as Sasuke is about to drive a Chidori through her chest. It's up to Kakashi to come and save her.
Later on in the fight the same exact thing happens again: she idiotically puts herself in danger and Naruto has to come to her rescue at the very last second.
-Despite being the one to uncover the plot involving White Zetsu, Sakura herself is tricked the next day by the Zetsus in disguise, and once again, Naruto must come rescue her from her damsel in distress role.

Really, it's as if Kishi dedicated an arc to her character development, then as soon as it was it was over let her return to the way she was for majority of Part 1: a useless damsel in distress. In this sense, she is not deserving of her title as the apparent "heroine" of the series.



How would you personally counter some of these arguments? Or are they legitimate reasons as to why NaruHina is the better pairing and why Sakura makes a bad heroine?

Dear NH fan. Its early in the morning so I will keep my counter arguments short.


"First, I should clear any potential misconceptions that might have stemmed from the thread title: This is not a thread made to argue against NaruSaku.
I am a staunch NaruSaku supporter, and will often debate with other people over at NarutoBase in support of this pairing (and Sakura herself). I just want to get other people's opinions.
"

Thats bullsh**. This is a standard NH anti-sakura post with good grammar.

1) Hinata's Interference during the Pain fight

It seems you trust him just as little as she does. It was never her plan to save him. Her plan was to confess to him and die. The one reason she is not dead is because Sakura saved her. The one thing on her mind was that this was her last chance and there is no different way to see that.

2) Hinata understands Naruto more than Sakura ever could

She understands nothing. Please dont make her a tortured soul because she is not. She is the one person in the entire age group that is called "sama" or lady. She doesnt know about his love for Sakura, the fact that hes a jinyuriki, his ambition to bring Sasuke back and she doesnt know what its like to be alone all your life. Sakura may never have been alone but at least she knows Naruto. Again her father rejected Hinata because she was completly useless. And its probably emberassing for the main family to have a succesor that cant hold a candle to a kid in the side branch. And she was back to being fully apreciated by part 2 so please dont ever say something like this again.

4) Sai acknowledges Sakura loves Sasuke

Yea so. The sun is hot too. We all know this and its not that big a problem. We discussed this to death. Her love for Naruto is on a different layer.

As to an analysis of Sakura herself:

How about no. Sakura is a kind, beautiful, caring, interesting and a CONFLICTED girl. She is a medical ninja. Its her job to stay back and help the wounded until it absolutely cant be helped.This does not make her useless. And i personaly loved the pain invasion scream. When the village fell she knew there was only one person who could help. And the perfect timing of Naruto looked epic. I can only imagine Sakuras reaction (" Wait, that worked?"). Everytime she got hurt she was trying to help someone, mostly Naruto. While Hinata got "killed" because she wanted to confess. Honestly why cant you just accept that Sakura may not be as powerfull as Naruto and Sasuke (yet) but she is still a powerhouse.

I cant belive that you make the name of the topic so NH/anti-NS but still dare to claim that your NS. Thats just rude.

[HauntedCake]

Lol RomanceGirl is going to be pissed when she shes this lol

[Baguette]

Wait, I think you've got this all wrong. These are not arguments that I have personally come up with, but rather ones I would like advice in refuting.
I'm sorry if I've made the wrong impression with the title, but that was merely a way to catch people's attention. If you still need confirmation of my intents, feel free to look me up on NarutoBase (Baguette), and from my posts it should be clear whose side I am on.

I am relatively new to this forum, and haven't participated in enough discussion on the various topics that may have been covered over the past few months. I had hoped that veterans here would be able to help bring me up to speed.

And lastly, I think I can confidently say that I can personally connect with Sakura on more levels than the average fan. It's what makes her one of my favorite characters.
As I've said, I have also already formed a few mental responses to the above arguments, but wanted to hear what other people had to say so that I could better support my opinion in the future.

Again, I apologize if I have made the wrong impression here. It's far from what I was aiming to do.

[HauntedCake]

Wait, I think you've got this all wrong. These are not arguments that I have personally come up with, but rather ones I would like advice in refuting.
I'm sorry if I've made the wrong impression with the title, but that was merely a way to catch people's attention. If you still need confirmation of my intents, feel free to look me up on NarutoBase (Baguette), and from my posts it should be clear whose side I am on.

I am relatively new to this forum, and haven't participated in enough discussion on the various topics that may have been covered over the past few months. I had hoped that veterans here would be able to help bring me up to speed.

And lastly, I think I can confidently say that I can personally connect with Sakura on more levels than the average fan. It's what makes her one of my favorite characters.
As I've said, I have also already formed a few mental responses to the above arguments, but wanted to hear what other people had to say so that I could better support my opinion in the future.

Again, I apologize if I have made the wrong impression here. It's far from what I was aiming to do.

DW- these arguments will be stripped apart like an decomissioned helicopter

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

First, I should clear any potential misconceptions that might have stemmed from the thread title: This is not a thread made to argue against NaruSaku.
I am a staunch NaruSaku supporter, and will often debate with other people over at NarutoBase in support of this pairing (and Sakura herself). I just want to get other people's opinions.

Although most of the "arguments" given by NaruHina fans are easily countered and horribly biased at best, the following reasons are some of the few that actually made me think.
For a couple of these, I already have responses floating around in my head, but I really would like to get a good idea of what you guys think and how you would respond so that I can better reinforce my perspective in the future.
Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks!

1) Hinata's Interference during the Pain fight
Us NaruSaku fans like to argue that Hinata's attempted "rescue" of Naruto was a selfish and pointless act- that it did nothing but cause further distress for Naruto and show just how little Hinata truly understands his desires.
A different point of view, however:

Do you not think that the fight had gone beyond the point of interference? He was pinned and unable to move, and moments from being... captured/killed/unsure-but-bad-things. Hinata admitted, largely, to being selfish (because she knew she would be unlikely to be able to save him).
Naruto had, seemingly, already given in to the idea that he would end up being captured - but still have largely succeeded in protecting his friends (assuming Pain simply left). It was also implied that he was at the limits of his Nindo (without relying on the fox and endangering his friends).
Hinata's Nindo overlapped and conflicted somewhat with his. Naruto's desire to not have his friends interfere was ultimately a desire for the same thing that was about to happen in chapter 615. Hinata was not about to give up on herself, or on Naruto - and decided that it was time to act regardless of the odds and consequences be damned. ~Aim64C of NB

2) Hinata understands Naruto more than Sakura ever could
Credit to Chatte for posing this question back then:
"Please explain how Hinata understands Naruto's bond with Sasuke, how she understands his loneliness, how she understands his complexes, how she understands that he needs to be cared for from time to time, how she understands his sensei's death."
The response:

She had a cousin who hated her existence - a father who considered her useless and turned her over to Kurenai as a lost cause. She's spent a considerable portion of her life merely wanting to be recognized as valid.
As for Sasuke - she's chased after Naruto and held a torch for Naruto for some time - while that's understanding on a tangent - it's something for her to empathize with. Though true empathy is, to some degree, understanding that there can only be so much empathy - so much understanding. She's also lost Neji - who was something of a brother, but a slightly different context than Naruto with Sasuke (though she did have to deal with Neji being caught up in revenge).
Losing a Sensei... well, she's currently lost Neji - who, if I remember correctly, is stated to have been training her. Again - something of a tangent and not exact. Though, for Naruto losing his sensei was less of losing a teacher and more of him losing a father (after not having one). Hinata was thrown to Kurenai by her father with the parting words of: "Don't care, she's useless to me."
There are small parallels that can give hinges for empathy. But, as I said - empathy is also understanding that you can never be the other person or completely experience their pain.

If Sakura understood Naruto better, then why was Sakura unable to reach through to Naruto's walls of "I don't deserve..." that Hinata so effortlessly shattered?
The answer is simple: Sakura doesn't really see that the wall exists. She hasn't been lonely - not like Naruto has. She's never felt the isolation of no one wanting you. The only thing she really empathizes strongly with Naruto is her feelings of loss over Sasuke... and even then - Sasuke was, quite literally, a brother to Naruto (or the only thing he could begin to identify as a brother). He was a friend and eye-candy to Sakura. ~Aim64C

3) Yamato himself was enraged at Sakura for her fake confession
We like to cite Yamato's line at the Heaven and Earth bridge as proof that Sakura possibly loves Naruto.
However, his reaction during Sakura's confession was one of suspicion and anger. If this doesn't almost retcon his line from before, it at the very least shows that he could tell Sakura was lying about loving Naruto at that moment.

4) Sai acknowledges Sakura loves Sasuke
We use Sai's flashback as proof of Naruto's love for Sakura. But after the fake confession, while Sai is revealing Sakura's true intentions for confessing to Naruto, he states that because of Sakura's love for Sasuke, she plans to kill him herself to make sure Sasuke doesn't sink any lower on the path of darkness. She may have Naruto's feelings at heart, but her main motivation remains to be Sasuke himself.


As to an analysis of Sakura herself:
While Sakura was awesome indeed during the Kazekage Rescue Arc, she has regressed horribly since then:
-Despite having specifically trained in evasion as a medic, one of the first things she does at the Heaven and Earth bridge is get knocked out and depend on Yamato to rescue her. When she awakes, she then runs crying towards Naruto, who is in his Four-Tails form. This serves as a reminder of her past role as a useless damsel in distress who simply serves to bring drama into a situation.
-The same thing happens in their first encounter with Sasuke, where she is the first one to get knocked out, and stays out of action for the rest of the confrontation.
-After the destruction of Konoha by Pain, she is the one who screams out helplessly for Naruto, again fulfilling her role as a person on the sidelines simply used to add dramatic flair to a situation
-During the second Team 7 confrontation, she puts herself in a damsel in distress situation as Sasuke is about to drive a Chidori through her chest. It's up to Kakashi to come and save her.
Later on in the fight the same exact thing happens again: she idiotically puts herself in danger and Naruto has to come to her rescue at the very last second.
-Despite being the one to uncover the plot involving White Zetsu, Sakura herself is tricked the next day by the Zetsus in disguise, and once again, Naruto must come rescue her from her damsel in distress role.

Really, it's as if Kishi dedicated an arc to her character development, then as soon as it was it was over let her return to the way she was for majority of Part 1: a useless damsel in distress. In this sense, she is not deserving of her title as the apparent "heroine" of the series.



How would you personally counter some of these arguments? Or are they legitimate reasons as to why NaruHina is the better pairing and why Sakura makes a bad heroine?

Does not make any sense.
Still Hinata had a family, Hinata wasnt alone, she just was rejected by her father for being weak.
This is not empathy this is another stuff, she just vowed to not give up but still she was weak.
Hinata didnt suffered rejection from other people's she didnt had the same suffering as Naruto.

Sakura had a better background than this, she suffered from reject and bullying from ther other kids, this is more a parallel of Naruto until she found someome like Ino who make her stronger just like Naruto who found out Sasuke.
Ofc the relationship of Sakura/Ino is different than Naruto/Emo

This whole Hinata understand better Naruto is just a wishful thinking, Hinata only understand his Nindo but nothing else more, Sakura understands better Naruto she understands the downside of Naruto's nindo and about Neji, she didnt even had the same suffering has Naruto's had when Neji died or something close ot him died, for her Naruto is the most important thing just that is already a huge downside for Hinata.

About the analyze of Sakura.
I can see someome who write with Hate towards a character, funny that on the two oppotunities when he/she said she was a useless "Damsel in distress" pretty much describes Hinata on two ocassions that he/she described as a heroine attitude.

"If Sakura understood Naruto better, then why was Sakura unable to reach through to Naruto's walls of "I don't deserve..." that Hinata so effortlessly shattered?
The answer is simple: Sakura doesn't really see that the wall exists. She hasn't been lonely - not like Naruto has. She's never felt the isolation of no one wanting you. The only thing she really empathizes strongly with Naruto is her feelings of loss over Sasuke... and even then - Sasuke was, quite literally, a brother to Naruto (or the only thing he could begin to identify as a brother). He was a friend and eye-candy to Sakura. ~Aim64C[/b]"
So why Naruto also said something like that also "I dont deserve...", "i cant confess to her if i cant even keep my promises" pretty much like that so in Naruto's eyes Sakura > Hinata.
Hinata didnt break any walls, the only wall she broke was her shyness she never thought that she said "i dont deserve" or whatever, she's just Naruto-kun.

And just to finish when he said that Yamato was angry, a few chapter later he is not angry anymore because he realized that she was doing that for Naruto's sake, Yamato also knew that Naruto was just putting himself in danger.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 February 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[StrikerTheNoble]

Lol RomanceGirl is going to be pissed when she shes this lol

This is gonna get nasty


@Baguette

No matter what you ment by this topic the title messed it up. You look/looked like a rebbit NH fan. So try changing the title and avoid some further rage.

[HauntedCake]

And just to finish when he said that Yamato was angry, a few chapter later he is not angry anymore because he realized that she was doing that for Naruto's sake, Yamato also knew that Naruto was just putting himself in danger.

I never got the impression that Yamato was angry with Sakura, just suprised and shocked.. not angry. Why would he be?

Edited by HauntedCake, 25 February 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[luffyq1]

[candycane-chan]

Although most of the "arguments" given by NaruHina fans are easily countered and horribly biased at best, the following reasons are some of the few that actually made me think.
For a couple of these, I already have responses floating around in my head, but I really would like to get a good idea of what you guys think and how you would respond so that I can better reinforce my perspective in the future.
Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks!

It's okay to feel a bit doubtfull Atleast you came to ask others about their opinions instead of going out on NH fans without any solid proof.

1) Hinata's Interference during the Pain fight
Us NaruSaku fans like to argue that Hinata's attempted "rescue" of Naruto was a selfish and pointless act- that it did nothing but cause further distress for Naruto and show just how little Hinata truly understands his desires.

I really don't understand why fans try to say that hinata was "selfless" and "heroic" when she herself said that she was being selfish. She didn't go to help him and save his life, she went there because she wanted to confess her feelings and die with him. Sakura's fight in the forest of death was more heroic because she acually put up a fight. Sakura also used cunning and trickery at that time; hinata on the other hand after three years was still reckless.

We know that naruto is reckless and tends to let his emotions get the better of him. He doesn't need someone like hinata, he needs a girl like sakura that would keep him on the line.

Hinata's Nindo overlapped and conflicted somewhat with his. Naruto's desire to not have his friends interfere was ultimately a desire for the same thing that was about to happen in chapter 615. Hinata was not about to give up on herself, or on Naruto - and decided that it was time to act regardless of the odds and consequences be damned.

No, it didn't.
Hinata simply follows naruto's nindo, she doesn't have her own dreams and goals, she's just a follower, a side character. Naruto is her sun and she revolves around him. Naruto doesn't want anyone to interfere and get themselves in a position where they would need his saving-which is exactly what hinata did. Regardless what you think of her intentions, the results of her actions were disasterous.

She didn't think of the consequenses of her actions, she was just thinking about her feelings.

) Hinata understands Naruto more than Sakura ever could

lol what ?!
hinata knows nothing about naruto, absolutely nothing. And her life with the hyugas was normal and not so complicated and abusive as people tend to make it. Even in the databook it was stated that she had a happylife with her friends and family.

And she knows nothing about naruto's desire to save sasuke. She didn't think about before and she never talked with naruto about it and she never went through something similar. And you can't compare neji's death because neji died a death of a shinobi, and he was content and happy. But sasuke is a traitor.

And sakura is the one who understands naruto's desire the most, evidence is this
Don't forget that sasuke is important to sakura. and she shares with naruto the desire to bring him back. So she understands him far more then hinata ever could.

Sakura also understands his dream to become hokage, evidence is during the exam "I don't want it to be crushed" She's also willing to support him at any cost ( willing to forfit the exam just for his sake) and she believes that naruto is the kind of person to achieve all the odds.

Sakura knows how far naruto is willing to go to save sasuke and that frightenss her. Evidence is after the confession she rethinks about what naruto said to sasuke "we'll die together" and another thing she understands is how he's always theone to save everyone and how he's burdened with lots of stuff.



And from now on she's not going to let him carry the burden alone.

3) Yamato himself was enraged at Sakura for her fake confession

He looked more disturbed because sakura was confessing at a time like this and because she was telling naruto to quit chasing after sasuke when back then she was the one who screamed to him a the top of her lungs that she'd bring sasuke back.

But sasuke was a criminal and he was causing naruto pain, she didn't want naruto to risk his life fore a criminal. Especially not fore her ( She released him from his promise)

4) Sai acknowledges Sakura loves Sasuke

Sai also said that naruto loves sakura......
And sakura puts naruto above sasuke. When both naruto and sasuke were about to clash at the kage summit she screamed for naruto, and the main reason why she even came there was because she wanted to do it herself imstead of burdening naruto with it.

Also, in the chuunin exam, she was willing to repeat the entire year with naruto. Why didn't she think about sasuke? Why didn't she take in account that sasuke would've probably hated her?
simple...naruto is more important to her.

As to an analysis of Sakura herself:
While Sakura was awesome indeed during the Kazekage Rescue Arc, she has regressed horribly since then:
-Despite having specifically trained in evasion as a medic, one of the first things she does at the Heaven and Earth bridge is get knocked out and depend on Yamato to rescue her. When she awakes, she then runs crying towards Naruto, who is in his Four-Tails form. This serves as a reminder of her past role as a useless damsel in distress who simply serves to bring drama into a situation.
-The same thing happens in their first encounter with Sasuke, where she is the first one to get knocked out, and stays out of action for the rest of the confrontation.
-After the destruction of Konoha by Pain, she is the one who screams out helplessly for Naruto, again fulfilling her role as a person on the sidelines simply used to add dramatic flair to a situation
-During the second Team 7 confrontation, she puts herself in a damsel in distress situation as Sasuke is about to drive a Chidori through her chest. It's up to Kakashi to come and save her.
Later on in the fight the same exact thing happens again: she idiotically puts herself in danger and Naruto has to come to her rescue at the very last second.
-Despite being the one to uncover the plot involving White Zetsu, Sakura herself is tricked the next day by the Zetsus in disguise, and once again, Naruto must come rescue her from her damsel in distress role.

Really, it's as if Kishi dedicated an arc to her character development, then as soon as it was it was over let her return to the way she was for majority of Part 1: a useless damsel in distress. In this sense, she is not deserving of her title as the apparent "heroine" of the series.


[/font]

1) no medical jutsu could've helped naruto when he was 4-tails but sakura thought that her yelling at him would wake him upor maybe bring him back to his old self. and when she's healing naruto she even asks yamato if he could teach her that move so that the next time she can stop naruto herself.

2) that's a bit stupid now. really?
She didn't have it coming! Sasuke was still her teammate and still a leaf shinobi. she didn't think he'd hurt her.

3) She's not reckless like hinata. She knew that at that point she couldn't have done anything. And she wasn't just sidelined. In the war she saved a little girl, healed her, we saw her healing many people, she was acuallly talkng akatsuki with iruka, she took everyone out of harm when naruto when bellastic, she was a leader, she lead everyone to save hinata, she healed hinata, she had a momen to praise her master "You did a good job" hence developing their relationship.

4) She also was able to trick sai, kiba, and lee even when she was stressed with tsunade's health, even with naruto's feelings on her shoulders, even with sasuke's betrail stabbing her in the heart. she just whipped her tears away like nothing happened.

5) sakurawas tricked because she had her heart on her sleeve and because she was sympathetic. and just like the heroine she is, she wanted to help them. Hinata on the other hand got her ass kicked on the battle field where she wasn't tricked and her emotions weren't used against her. She's just...weak.

Wait, I think you've got this all wrong. These are not arguments that I have personally come up with, but rather ones I would like advice in refuting.
I'm sorry if I've made the wrong impression with the title, but that was merely a way to catch people's attention. If you still need confirmation of my intents, feel free to look me up on NarutoBase (Baguette), and from my posts it should be clear whose side I am on.

I am relatively new to this forum, and haven't participated in enough discussion on the various topics that may have been covered over the past few months. I had hoped that veterans here would be able to help bring me up to speed.

And lastly, I think I can confidently say that I can personally connect with Sakura on more levels than the average fan. It's what makes her one of my favorite characters.
As I've said, I have also already formed a few mental responses to the above arguments, but wanted to hear what other people had to say so that I could better support my opinion in the future.

Again, I apologize if I have made the wrong impression here. It's far from what I was aiming to do.

ahhh, ookay.
At first I thought that was your discussion.

EDIT almost forgot
The "I'm not good enough" just shows hom selfless both are. Sakura thinks that naruto deserves better. She feels guilty for the promise he gave her especially after knowing the extent of his feelings for her. It doesn't help that she has her own insecurities especially regarding her physical appearance and her usefullness.

She doesn't want to fall behind her sasuke and naruto but whith teammates like those it can't be helped. She has improved quite a lot and I'm sure that she'll have her spot light back when the time comes.

Edited by candycane-chan, 25 February 2013 - 11:19 AM.

[HauntedCake]

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 February 2013 - 11:08 AM.

[HauntedCake]

It's okay to feel a bit doubtfull Atleast you came to ask others about their opinions instead of going out on NH fans without any solid proof.


I really don't understand why fans try to say that hinata was "selfless" and "heroic" when she herself said that she was being selfish. She didn't go to help him and save his life, she went there because she wanted to confess her feelings and die with him. Sakura's fight in the forest of death was more heroic because she acually put up a fight. Sakura also used cunning and trickery at that time; hinata on the other hand after three years was still reckless.

We know that naruto is reckless and tends to let his emotions get the better of him. He doesn't nedd someone like hinata, he needs a girl like sakura that would keep him on the line.



No, it didn't.
Hinata simply follows naruto's nindo, she doesn't have her own dreams and goals, she's just a follower, a side character. Naruto is her sun and she revolves around him. Naruto doesn't want anyoneto interfere and get themselves in a position where they would need his saving-which is exactly what hinata did. Regardless what you think of her intentions, the results of her actions were disasterous.


lol what ?!
hinata knows nothing about naruto, absolutely nothing. And her life with the hyugas was normal and not so complicated and abusive as people tend to make it. Even in the databook it was stated that she had a happylife with her friends and family.

And she knows nothing about naruto's desire to save sasuke. She didn't think about before and she never talked with naruto about it and she never went through something similar. And you can't compare neji's death because neji died a death of a shinobi, and he was content and happy. But sasuke is a traitor.

And sakura is the one who understands naruto's desire the most, evidence is this
Don't forget that sasuke is important to sakura. and she shares with naruto the desire to bring him back. So she understands him far more then hinata ever could.

Sakura also understands his dream to become hokage, evidence is during the exam "I don't want it to be crushed" She's also willing to support him at any cost ( willing to forfit the exam just for his sake) and she believes that naruto is the kind of person to achieve all the odds.





He looked more disturbed because sakura was confessing at a time like this and because she was telling naruto to quit chasing after sasuke when back then she was the one who screamed to him a the top of her lungs that she'd bring sasuke back.

But sasuke was a criminal and he was causing naruto pain, she didn't want naruto to risk his life fore a criminal. Especially not fore her ( She released him from his promise)




Sai also said that naruto loves sakura......
And sakura puts naruto above sasuke. When both naruto and sasuke were about to clash at the kage summit she screamed for naruto, and the main reason why she even came there was because she wanted to do it herself imstead of burdening naruto with it.

Also, in the chuunin exam, she was willing to repeat the entire year with naruto. Why didn't she think about sasuke? Why didn't she take in account that sasuke would've probably hated her?
simple...naruto is more important to her.

1) no medical jutsu could've helped naruto when he was 4-tails but sakura thought that her yelling at him would wake him upor maybe bring him back to his old self. and when she's healing naruto she even asks yamato if he could teach her that move so that the next time she can stop naruto herself.

2) that's a bit stupid now. really?
She didn't have it coming! Sasuke was still her teammate and still a leaf shinobi. she didn't think he'd hurt her.

3) She's not reckless like hinata. She knew that at that point she couldn't have done anything. And she wasn't just sidelined. In the war she saved a little girl, healed her, we saw her healing many people, she was acuallly talkng akatsuki with iruka, she took everyone out of harm when naruto when bellastic, she was a leader, she lead everyone to save hinata, she healed hinata, she had a momen to praise her master "You did a good job" hence developing their relationship.

4) She also was able to trick sai, kiba, and lee even when she was stressed with tsunade's health, even with naruto's feelings on her shoulders, even with sasuke's betrail stabbing her in the heart. she just whipped her tears away like nothing happened.

5) sakurawas tricked because she had her heart on her sleeve and because she was sympathetic. and just like the heroine she is, she wanted to help them. Hinata on the other hand got her ass kicked on the battle field where she wasn't tricked and her emotions weren't used against her. She's just...weak.


ahhh, ookay.
At first I thought that was your discussion.

This. I can't wait for romancegirls essay on this. gonna be good post

[Weltall]

You know there's no shame to admit you're a rabid nh fan, of course that would blow your cover and make your supposed objective analysis appear not so objective but hey at least you would be honest with yourself and the people here. There's no real problem with NH it's just not gonna happen.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You know there's no shame to admit you're a rabid nh fan, of course that would blow your cover and make your supposed objective analysis appear not so objective but hey at least you would be honest with yourself and the people here. There's no real problem with NH it's just not gonna happen.

I dont think Baquette is an NH fan.
I think you didnt read the first part he pretty much says that those "arguments" are from other persons and he wants to hear our opinion to formulate his answer.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 February 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[Gravenimage]

Oh boy, I won't bother replying to the topic because this thread has signs that its leading to character bashing and even user bashing. Before the end of this day a mod or adm will be closing this thread.

Edited by Gravenimage, 25 February 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[HauntedCake]

Oh boy, I won't bother replying to the topic because this thread has signs that its leading to character bashing and even user bashing. Before the end of this day a mod or adm will be closing this thread.

It won't be closed. No-one has done anything wrong yet

[Weltall]

I dont think Baquette is an NH fan.

Yes I just caught that, my mistake.
My opinion on the matter is simple : people tend to overthink things to support their ship or their theories especially in the Naruto fandom. The truth is NH is not supported by the story, the rest is personal biased interpretation there's no point losing time over it. Some others may be more qualified than me to answer you, we too have a lot of people who overthink.

Edited by Weltall, 25 February 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[Gravenimage]

It won't be closed. No-one has done anything wrong yet

Exactly you said it "yet" but I've been around long enough to tell when a thread has signs that will lead to bashing and eventually getting close down. I've seen it all before this thread is no different.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Exactly you said it "yet" but I've been around long enough to tell when a thread has signs that will lead to bashing and eventually getting close down. I've seen it all before this thread is no different.

Only if people stop thinking he's a nh and focus on the "arguments" then the thread will remain open.