20 replies to this topic

[Sora no Kitsune]

I've come to realize that i want to start playing World of Warcraft again after a year break, but ive seen to have forgeten alot of the information from my previous WoW days, and im sure things have changed a lot since then.

So, to anyone that currently plays WoW and has experience with the game, could you maybe tell about what has changed with prices, PvP, class stats, ect. What has happened with th classes power levels? What major changes have occured after WoTLK first took off? Whats going to be happening soon? any help would be nice.

Also, i plan to make Ret pally when i rejoin, but i really don't want to end up as a pally noob (lolret) due to my inexperience with the class, so could anyone experienced in the Pally class (perferablly the Ret talent spec) help me out?

Any help is highly appreciated. ^^

Edited by Sora no Senshi, 20 October 2009 - 12:42 AM.

[No WhereMan]

your best bet is probably to scour the WoW forums. Granted this is the video game section but I haven't noticed a large amount of people that frequent this site that are also WoW players. But anyway the WoW Pally forums you can get a good idea what people current gripes with the class as well as the things that are going good with it.

Edited by No WhereMan, 21 October 2009 - 10:58 PM.

[Freakazoid]

It would take me 5 essays worth of typing to explain everything that has happend. Should probably browse the WoW forums and MMOchampion.

[Sir Whirly]

It would take me 5 essays worth of typing to explain everything that has happend. Should probably browse the WoW forums and MMOchampion.

Either that, or just wait until Star Wars: The Old Republic comes out. Should be better than the Korean grinder like WOW is.

[Unknown Entity]

Also, i plan to make Ret pally when i rejoin, but i really don't want to end up as a pally noob (lolret) due to my inexperience with the class, so could anyone experienced in the Pally class (perferablly the Ret talent spec) help me out?

Don't worry. Retadins can face-roll their way to 80 (and at 80) and still be good. It's basically a "hit whatever ability is available" class.

Not sure what you mean by "prices". Assuming you mean economy... it's very easy to make gold at 80 so there's a lot of gold in the system... which will reflect itself in the prices of items. If you want to make a lot of money, take two gathering professions while you're leveling up since there's not enough supply of low-level and mid-level herbs/ores to meet the demand (for powerleveling professions at 80). Download the addon "Gatherer" and get Herbalism & Mining...

PvP = arena
PvP for casuals = BGs
Other than ganking... there is no world pvp.

Class stats: Ret paladins will want strength & stamina while leveling. Mostly strength. You can worry more about gear at 70-80.

They've really "casualized" the end-game. It doesn't matter how bad you are... it's insanely easy to get epic gear at level 80 now by doing heroic-mode level 80 dungeons.

The old world is basically dead... don't let anyone lie to you. Sure, you'll see the occasional re-roller or the even more rare "newbie", but zones in Azeroth are basically dead. It's very possible to level to 70 and not meet more than a few people. So join a (leveling/casual) guild if you want to enjoy any social aspect to the game.

Honestly, you don't need to know much. You can read whatever you need to know on WoW sites.

Either that, or just wait until Star Wars: The Old Republic comes out. Should be better than the Korean grinder like WOW is.

This made me laugh.

Edited by Unknown Entity, 21 October 2009 - 03:59 AM.

[No WhereMan]

Either that, or just wait until Star Wars: The Old Republic comes out. Should be better than the Korean grinder like WOW is.

I'm Nowhere_Man and I support this statement.

[Yakatsu]

Either that, or just wait until Star Wars: The Old Republic comes out. Should be better than the Korean grinder like WOW is.

*plays FFXI*

Yeah man! You're totally right! Yeah, koreans grinders.

I need to fish more to get a level up on Fishing! UGH.

[Unknown Entity]

Mmhrm...

Do you guys actually believe that The Old Republic won't be a grind like every other MMORPG?

Every... every MMORPG is a grind. Why do you think Bioware will magically produce something different?

The only difference from newer MMOs to older MMOs is that older ones were usually a mob grinds while newer ones mainly focus on quest grinds.

And seriously, if you consider WoW a grinder... well... I'm not even going to comment on that.

Edited by Unknown Entity, 21 October 2009 - 10:13 PM.

[Sora no Kitsune]

Ive looked for a proper guide, but i could not find any that are new and updated, and the old ones wont help me due to the many talent changes and revisments made by blizzard. So if anyone knows a specific place other then WoW forums that may have updated guides, could you let me know?

[Unknown Entity]

Ive looked for a proper guide, but i could not find any that are new and updated, and the old ones wont help me due to the many talent changes and revisments made by blizzard. So if anyone knows a specific place other then WoW forums that may have updated guides, could you let me know?

You don't need a 3.2.2 guide... 3.2 would be fine since not much has changed... even 3.1 wouldn't be too bad.

Check the paladin forums at wowhead and elitistjerks... they should have some pretty informative 3.2 guides.

[No WhereMan]

Mmhrm...

Do you guys actually believe that The Old Republic won't be a grind like every other MMORPG?

Every... every MMORPG is a grind. Why do you think Bioware will magically produce something different?

The only difference from newer MMOs to older MMOs is that older ones were usually a mob grinds while newer ones mainly focus on quest grinds.

And seriously, if you consider WoW a grinder... well... I'm not even going to comment on that.

I hate to break it to you but WoW is a grinder.

Don't get me wrong. I've played WoW since closed beta. Went through both expansion. I've a lot of great times on WoW and a lot of great stories from some of the stuff I've pulled off in PVP fights. But even I can honestly say its a grinder. From lv1-80. You can either pvp or pve grind. That's pretty much it.

It has a lot of content and lore that if you start to read up on it, is really interesting, but it's not necessary to get to lv80.

One of the reasons why a lot of people, myself included are anxiously waiting for The Old Republic is because of BioWare's emphasis on Story Content within the game. It's supposed to have hundreds of hours of dialogue and lore to immerse the player in that Universe. The fact that the game changes based on your responses and actions to other NPCs and the fact that every class has its own set questlines and none of them will be repeatable from the other quests in the game. Had actually intrigued me quite a bit.

[Paradox Jast]

WoW is a endgame grind. That includes dailies and repeating the same raid/heroic instances over and over and over and over.

[Unknown Entity]

I hate to break it to you but WoW is a grinder.

Don't get me wrong. I've played WoW since closed beta. Went through both expansion. I've a lot of great times on WoW and a lot of great stories from some of the stuff I've pulled off in PVP fights. But even I can honestly say its a grinder. From lv1-80. You can either pvp or pve grind. That's pretty much it.

It has a lot of content and lore that if you start to read up on it, is really interesting, but it's not necessary to get to lv80.

One of the reasons why a lot of people, myself included are anxiously waiting for The Old Republic is because of BioWare's emphasis on Story Content within the game. It's supposed to have hundreds of hours of dialogue and lore to immerse the player in that Universe. The fact that the game changes based on your responses and actions to other NPCs and the fact that every class has its own set questlines and none of them will be repeatable from the other quests in the game. Had actually intrigued me quite a bit.

You seem to be misunderstanding me (I probably just didn't make it clear), but I know that WoW is a grind... my point was that WoW's grind is nothing compared to other (older) MMOs. So it just makes me chuckle a little bit when I hear people say that WoW is too much of a grind.

I already said it once, I'll say it again. Every MMO is a grind. WoW is no exception, and I'm not expecting The Old Republic to be any different.

I don't care how much story or dialouge there is in The Old Republic (how much hundreds upon hundreds of lines of dialouge do you think WoW has?)... at the end of the day it's still going to be a grind. You said that you can skip the content in WoW and head straight to 80... do you really think Bioware is going to do it any different? Let's say they do make it so that you have to get into the story to actually get anywhere... in the state that the MMO community is in right now... it wouldn't bring in too many customers. I don't think I've ever played any MMO where I couldn't just skip through all the dialouge and ignore all the story and still continue to advance my character.

Little novelties like "each class has its own set questlines" will probably get old after awhile and just become another grind. Everything is new and exciting at first... then it becomes dull and pointless.

How exactly will the game change based on individual choices and decisions? I would have to read more up on this before I really comment.

I'm not saying The Old Republic doesn't have the possibility to be a great game. I'm actually looking forward to it myself. All I'm saying is that you guys are sounding a lot like the recent Warhammer and Aion backers... saying that "this game is going to be the best-est game ever! It's going to be so much better than WoW and destroy it!"... look at what happened to those two games.

So hype yourself up, be interested, and hope to God it's a great game. Just don't go around saying that it will be a greatest MMO of all time and delude yourself into thinking that you're going to get a MMO drastically different from every other MMO (i.e. a MMO without a grind).

I myself will continue to play WoW and realistically hope that another MMO will come out that will make the grind a little bit more fun than WoW has done.

Note: If you didn't realize, there's a lot of exaggeration in this post. So don't go quoting me on something that is pretty obviously a exaggeration.

[Sir Whirly]

^ didn't want to quote that.

Here's the thing. I have played a plethora of different MMO's and other than some overly weak Korean MMO, I never had to grind as much as I did for WOW. Now I know with lower levels, it isn' as bad as before with their updates, the truth is that the amount of grinding is only for those who don't mind plating 12 hours a day.

TOR is going to be a bit different, more storydriven and seems like the combat is going to be a bit more interesting than the point and click while pressing F1-F12.

[Yakatsu]

All RPG games are grinders.

/thread

[Unknown Entity]

^ didn't want to quote that.

Here's the thing. I have played a plethora of different MMO's and other than some overly weak Korean MMO, I never had to grind as much as I did for WOW. Now I know with lower levels, it isn' as bad as before with their updates, the truth is that the amount of grinding is only for those who don't mind plating 12 hours a day.

TOR is going to be a bit different, more storydriven and seems like the combat is going to be a bit more interesting than the point and click while pressing F1-F12.

I'm honestly curious, what major, successful MMO have you played that has less of a grind than WoW?

I keep hearing "storydriven". What does that mean? Does that mean that every other MMO has never had a story? Does that mean that The Old Republic will play more like a single-player game than a MMO where it's mostly story and not as much action/combat (which I've already read as not true)? What exactly are you expecting from a "storydriven" MMO?

Other than having a better story than other MMOs... I don't see how "storydriven" means that The Old Republic will defer from regular MMO conventions.

I've already read that there will be a PvE/PvP endgame... so how will this "storydriven" MMO make it so that PvE endgame isn't just grinding for gear? And where PvP isn't just a grind to get better so that you can beat the other guy?

Choices in the story affect your character? Unless there's a random variable thrown in those choices... people will just find the formula of choices to make the best character and boom... it becomes just like everything else... a grind.

The only thing I've read on combat is something about it using the global cooldown system. Hrm... that doesn't sound unique at all. Don't see how they're going to make combat not just as "pushing some buttons (maybe in a certain order to achieve maximum result)". Vehicle battles maybe? People hate that (if the reaction of the ones in WoW is anything to go by).

All RPG games are grinders.

/thread

This was/is the main point I'm trying to make. The Old Republic will not be any different. It will have/be a grind.

[No WhereMan]

Oh wow, I don't what bug got up your butt but lets see what we have here.

You seem to be misunderstanding me (I probably just didn't make it clear), but I know that WoW is a grind... my point was that WoW's grind is nothing compared to other (older) MMOs. So it just makes me chuckle a little bit when I hear people say that WoW is too much of a grind.

I already said it once, I'll say it again. Every MMO is a grind. WoW is no exception, and I'm not expecting The Old Republic to be any different.

I never once disagreed with you. But the statement you made which I quoted from you made it sound like we were such poor souls for believing WoW was any sort of grinder. My honest hope from the Old Republic is a nice storyline that will keep me interested from the whole 40 or whatever levels that the game has. That's really it, I don't expect it to be some epic event that will change the world or bring about world peace or whatever. Just something that will keep me entertained for the hours that I play it. WoW unfortunately doesn't do that for me anymore.

I don't care how much story or dialouge there is in The Old Republic (how much hundreds upon hundreds of lines of dialouge do you think WoW has?)... at the end of the day it's still going to be a grind. You said that you can skip the content in WoW and head straight to 80... do you really think Bioware is going to do it any different? Let's say they do make it so that you have to get into the story to actually get anywhere... in the state that the MMO community is in right now... it wouldn't bring in too many customers. I don't think I've ever played any MMO where I couldn't just skip through all the dialouge and ignore all the story and still continue to advance my character.

The state of MMOs right now? I didn't know they had a report going out. But anyway, I've currently played Aion and I'm now playing Champions Online, and I have to say that from the statements that people have made from chats, forums and what not, everyone generally wants a game that plays well and looks good and that's also not WoW.

Honestly, that's what it boils down to a lot of people. On both games I've never seen so many open and honest WoW haters, and honestly I've always found myself defending WoW because I still think it's a great game but I digress.

I think the fact that TOR will put so much emphasis on story that you have to pay attention really on what you say, is a big plus. It also makes players care about what actions their characters take, which reinforces the immersion into the plot.

Plus people are always looking for, how is this game different? How is this game different from WoW? How is this game different from Aion? or FFXI? or EQ2? This focus on story is BioWare's angle of attacking how their game is different. So, it might hook a lot of people from the get go. Or it might not. From the looks of the TOR forums though, I'm leaning towards a lot of people looking forward to seeing how TOR is going to be different from other MMO.

Little novelties like "each class has its own set questlines" will probably get old after awhile and just become another grind. Everything is new and exciting at first... then it becomes dull and pointless.

Honestly, I don't think you can know that till you've actually experienced the game. Me personally I'd like a game where i didn't have kill Hogger 10 different times. Also with the unique class questlines means when I make my second or third alt character, I'm not going to be doing the same thing my main character does. But yea, even that will fall into a routine which I know happens regardless. It's my hope that BioWare does it in such a way that I don't even notice the grind.

How exactly will the game change based on individual choices and decisions? I would have to read more up on this before I really comment.

NPC attitudes towards your character changes, be it more negatively or positively. Story Options becomes closed or opened depending upon what you do. Mission options open and closed depending on what you do. Not to mention the whole light or dark side of the force meter that comes with the Star Wars KoToR game. Also you can change allegiances depending on what you do in the game. For instance a Sith warrior can go about the steps to come back to the light side of the force.

I'm not saying The Old Republic doesn't have the possibility to be a great game. I'm actually looking forward to it myself. All I'm saying is that you guys are sounding a lot like the recent Warhammer and Aion backers... saying that "this game is going to be the best-est game ever! It's going to be so much better than WoW and destroy it!"... look at what happened to those two games.

Honestly I have said no such thing. I'm looking forward to the Old Republic. But WoW is too much of a entity to really ever be crushed by one single game. Like I said I love WoW, but I recognize the faults that it has.

So hype yourself up, be interested, and hope to God it's a great game. Just don't go around saying that it will be a greatest MMO of all time and delude yourself into thinking that you're going to get a MMO drastically different from every other MMO (i.e. a MMO without a grind).

I myself will continue to play WoW and realistically hope that another MMO will come out that will make the grind a little bit more fun than WoW has done.

Well maybe you should read up more on the Old Republic, it might be the MMO that you've been looking for.

Note: If you didn't realize, there's a lot of exaggeration in this post. So don't go quoting me on something that is pretty obviously a exaggeration.

Don't worry I've come to realize from the internet that if you have to use excessive amounts of sarcasm to prove whatever point your making, you already weaken your argument from the get go. =D

Also I noticed on another post, you made the question about how combat was going to be different. BioWare has stated that it has gone to great lengths to make combat a lot of fun and exciting. From what I gathered, so far there will be an option to change the view from 3rd to 1st person. Also BioWare confirmed that they were the first MMO that was going to be introducing a cover mechanic that the Smuggler uses. So the character can duck and cover around objects and fire, using his scenery to his advantage. Kind of like the cover mechanic, you'd see in Gears of War or something. Your fighting options will also change depending upon if you are under cover or not. They haven't really gone into great detail but other combat options because everything is still in the Alpha stage, but they try to reveal things as they develop.

[Unknown Entity]

Oh wow, I don't what bug got up your butt but lets see what we have here.

The fact that you guys came into a thread where someone was asking for WoW help and basically said "WoW sucks cause it's a grind, just wait til The Old Republic comes outs" (clarification on this later). I realize you in particular didn't do that at first... but you still agreed with the post that did.

I never once disagreed with you. But the statement you made which I quoted from you made it sound like we were such poor souls for believing WoW was any sort of grinder.

That's why I said you probably just misunderstood me (since I didn't make it clear enough).

The state of MMOs right now? I didn't know they had a report going out.

Most players who started playing MMOs in the late 90s (when they started to become popular) or earlier would probably agree that the community in MMOs have degraded (since WoW opened the door to the masses). I'm sure you've heard from plenty of people who have the opinion that WoW's community is one of the (if not THE) worst in the MMO genre. The MMO community now majorly consists of players who want to "win" as fast as possible (versus communities from before who enjoyed adventuring in a more sandbox-type virtual world).

But anyway, I've currently played Aion and I'm now playing Champions Online, and I have to say that from the statements that people have made from chats, forums and what not, everyone generally wants a game that plays well and looks good and that's also not WoW.

Yes, I also want a great game that's not WoW. However, there's just too much of what I said before going on... where people latch on to the next big MMO and start actually believing that it will be a great game before it's even out.

I think the fact that TOR will put so much emphasis on story that you have to pay attention really on what you say, is a big plus. It also makes players care about what actions their characters take, which reinforces the immersion into the plot.

Well, we'll just have to wait and see. I really do hope you're right.

Plus people are always looking for, how is this game different? How is this game different from WoW? How is this game different from Aion? or FFXI? or EQ2? This focus on story is BioWare's angle of attacking how their game is different. So, it might hook a lot of people from the get go. Or it might not. From the looks of the TOR forums though, I'm leaning towards a lot of people looking forward to seeing how TOR is going to be different from other MMO.

That's fine. It can't just be a WoW-clone if it's going to succeed, so it has to be different. But don't think for a second that it won't be re-using plenty of MMO conventions and will be drastically different from anything we've ever seen before.

Honestly, I don't think you can know that till you've actually experienced the game. Me personally I'd like a game where i didn't have kill Hogger 10 different times. Also with the unique class questlines means when I make my second or third alt character, I'm not going to be doing the same thing my main character does. But yea, even that will fall into a routine which I know happens regardless. It's my hope that BioWare does it in such a way that I don't even notice the grind.

*shrug* You don't have to do the same quests on alts in WoW either (different races get different starting zones)... you're given the choice, but it's not forced onto you. Like you said, it'll depend on the implementation, but I'm saying that there's a good chance that just like how starting a Orc is no longer different than starting a BE in WoW (since even though the quests are different, the grind of questing is still there) these unique questlines will probably become just another grind.

Honestly I have said no such thing. I'm looking forward to the Old Republic. But WoW is too much of a entity to really ever be crushed by one single game. Like I said I love WoW, but I recognize the faults that it has.

Either that, or just wait until Star Wars: The Old Republic comes out. Should be better than the Korean grinder like WOW is.

You went ahead and agreed with that statement right? Given the context, it's an indirect statement pretty much equivalent with what I said. You believe The Old Republic will be a great game, and that it will be better than WoW (enough to suggest to Sora to wait until The Old Republic comes out). Note that I did not say that you actually did mean that you believe The Old Republic will the best MMO ever and it will crush WoW, but that you're starting to sound a lot like the people who do/did say that.

Well maybe you should read up more on the Old Republic, it might be the MMO that you've been looking for.

I'm playing the wait-and-see game since it's not even that close to release yet.

Don't worry I've come to realize from the internet that if you have to use excessive amounts of sarcasm to prove whatever point your making, you already weaken your argument from the get go. =D

That's great... since sarcasm != exaggeration.

Edited by Unknown Entity, 23 October 2009 - 01:37 AM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Let's play nice, people. No more unnecessary comments about things crawling up other people's behinds.

[Yakatsu]

So like this time I got a +9 Gloves of British Knighthood back in Black-Troll caverns in the Isle of Racoons...

And then I'm facing this beautiful Night Elf.

Next thing I know I'm wiping out my magical robe and hat and exerting some spells, ya' dig?

Edited by Yakatsu, 23 October 2009 - 10:20 PM.