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[DrK]

For fun, I'm going to talk about different NS scenes that were important and discuss how the ending makes them completely stupid and pointless. I will give them a rating from 1 to 5.
 
Rating of 1: This scene makes me feel like... a pro-ender
Rating of 2: This isn't really a substantive NS moment at all
Rating of 3: It was wrong for Kishi to include this if NHSS was the intention
Rating of 4: Not ending with NS after this scene would be pretty absurd and seriously calls the storytelling into question
Rating of 5: It's absolutely pathetic that he didn't end with NS after this
 
1. Heaven and Earth Bridge - It's below.
2. Invasion of Pain
3. First Shippuden meeting
4. CPR scene
5. Chunin Exam written test
6. Scene with Iruka after the Forest of Death
7. Naruto vs. Gaara
8. The Yamato line
9. Kage Summit confession
10. Ramen stand feeding scene
11. Bench scene
12. The Minato scene
13. Promise of a Lifetime

Extra:
Hospital scene with Naruto walking away by BlackShirtGuy
Shooting star scene
A "special" FF I wrote
 
If you want to do your own thing as BlackShirtGuy did, go ahead and do it in this thread. I don't mind. If I wanted to talk about the scene that you did, I would have done so.
 
/
 
The first one I will do is the Heaven & Earth bridge scene where Naruto transforms into the Kyuubi and this has some kind of mild impact on Sakura because he's her friend. Credit to the build up thread.
 















 
 
What happens in this scene? Naruto is taunted about Sasuke and turns into the Kyuubi. Sakura reacts very badly. She feels responsible because she had Naruto make the promise to return Sasuke. So Sakura throws herself at Naruto even though there is absolutely no way it could possibly help the situation. This is an entirely useless action because Naruto isn't Naruto right now, he's the Kyuubi. Sakura is only going to get hurt. And she does.
 
Why does she do this? Well, I think she does it because she can't bear to watch this as she feels responsible for his circumstances. So she throws herself into harm's way because it would be more painful for her if she had to keep watching while doing nothing. The guilt is tearing her apart. She is really upset because Naruto is suffering.
 
So what does this mean for NaruSaku? Well, if you pay attention, you'll notice Sakura is basically releasing him from the promise already here. This early on. Also, this scene takes place at a place called the "Heaven and Earth Bridge." To have this kind of dramatic, sacrificial event acted out by the heroine towards the hero at a place with a namesake that symbolizes the unity of the two characters... Yeah, it's ridiculous if you don't end with NS after this.
 
Sakura really cares about Naruto here. Naruto isn't really in the scene, because it's the Kyuubi, but yeah.
 
Did Naruto love Sakura at this point? Yes.
 
Did Sakura love Naruto at this point? She's getting there. She is already putting Naruto at a higher level of importance than Sasuke by saying that she'll get Sasuke back for him. Because she doesn't want him to get hurt. She's basically saying "Let me be the one to suffer, because when you hurt, I hurt." If she cared about Sasuke more, she would not say that. She can't be with Sasuke or save Sasuke if she's dead. She would just tell him to stop, probably. Like "What the hell are you doing? You're going to get yourself killed, idiot!" She certainly would not throw herself at the strongest chakra beast in the world with no possible gain.
 
Rating: 4. Honestly it's more of a 4.5, but I'm not going to do decimal points. It's really dumb to end with NHSS after this scene. What does this scene mean considering the ending? F***ing nothing. Sakura got herself hurt for no reason. She felt tremendous anxiety because she put him in a situation where he could get hurt or even die trying to retrieve someone she felt she loved at the time, but she's perfectly happy to take advantage after he's successful. She feels no guilt over the massive amount of pain Naruto suffered in his quest to retrieve Sasuke, so she's simply moving on to live happily ever after with the emo avenger. So her tremendous anxiety is basically hypocrisy. Because she ultimately did nothing to make it easier for Naruto to save Sasuke, but gladly took the spoils of his efforts. She sees no problem with this, which is irreconcilable with what we just saw.
 
So the scene is ruined thanks to Kishimoto.
 
One more thing to consider. This scene means that both characters now have scars on their bodies. Sakura's injury from this scene, and Naruto's Chidori wounds. These are scars that Naruto and Sakura obtained by acting on an extremely strong desire to end the other's suffering. What did Sasuke and Hinata think of these? If they were to ask how they got them, what would they say after they got an explanation? I can tell you what they wouldn't say: "It makes sense that you wanted to be with me instead of Naruto/Sakura."
 
I'll leave it with this:

 
Sakura is writhing in pain after trying to save Naruto from his suffering. Her care for Naruto was so great that he ended up hurting her because she did something reckless as she couldn't stand to see him in pain. When she recovers, she isn't at all upset with Naruto. She tries to keep the fact that he hurt her from him so that he wouldn't have to feel bad about it. This is an amazing character moment for her, because everything she does is to protect Naruto. Because he would have done the same for her.
 
But this girl ended up with Sasuke. She blushed and asked to go with him. She has the courage to risk serious injury to save a precious person. Someone who loved her, and who was so close to her heart that it physically hurt to watch him struggle. But she can't live without a man who tried to murder her and who didn't care enough about her to save her from falling in lava. He eventually accepts her advances, so she settles into a miserable and lonely existence.
 
Waking up every day in an empty house while her dreams slowly wither and die.

Edited by DrK, 04 March 2018 - 03:16 PM.

[Kasimir38]

Thanks for that analysis. Just throwing it in: You could counter by saying that this scene isn't supporting NS since Sakura got hurt or "rejected" by Kyuubi Naruto and this scene would have a greater impact if Naruto actually calmed down when she interfered. At least, that is what I thought about it, taking it totally out of context. I also thought about the fact that Naruto kind of destroyed the bridge, doesn't that mean that he also destroyed his connection with Sakura?

[NarutoUzumaki01]

For fun, I'm going to talk about different NS scenes that were important and discuss how the ending makes them completely stupid and pointless.

You've read it all wrong, you misunderstood it, you'Ve got red herred by Kishimoto, NH is endgame deal with it. And other kitten that dumb people say, thanks to Kishimoto who made this ending. Sakura is a mess of character, and half of her scenes in retrospective has no meaning of logic whatsoever.

Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 26 November 2017 - 05:19 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

For fun, I'm going to talk about different NS scenes that were important and discuss how the ending makes them completely stupid and pointless. I will give them a rating from 1 to 5.
 
1: This scene makes me feel like Analyzer
2: Suggestive of the pairing, but it's not that big a deal for whatever reason
3: Kishi should not have included this if NHSS was the intention
4: Not ending with NS after this scene would be pretty absurd and seriously calls the storytelling into question
5: It's absolutely pathetic that he didn't end with NS after this
 
The first one I will do is the Heaven & Earth bridge scene where Naruto transforms into the Kyuubi and this has some kind of mild impact on Sakura because he's her friend. Credit to the build up thread.
 

We hit on this in DM's, but lets not forget its directly in this scene that Yamato gives us that leading question of "Sakura, to Naruto you really...." there was no point for Kishimoto to include that other then at the time his initial plan was to end in NS. When you look at this seen post series it sticks out like a sore thumb and makes no sense.

[winter-serenade]

This scene alone debunks all arguments that Sakura never cared about Naruto amd was selfish towards Naruto. When I first saw this scene, I was mesmerized. It was so beautifulllll~

[DrK]

We hit on this in DM's, but lets not forget its directly in this scene that Yamato gives us that leading question of "Sakura, to Naruto you really...." there was no point for Kishimoto to include that other then at the time his initial plan was to end in NS. When you look at this seen post series it sticks out like a sore thumb and makes no sense.

Yeah, I guess I'm considering that a diff scene. Which on its own would be at least a 3.

[James S Cassidy]

The Heaven and Earth birdge scene to me was far more powerful than Hinata's confession. It's because Sakura was willing to really sacrifice herself for Naruto's sake. Even when Naruto was the monster, she never saw him as one. She didn't pity him, she just felt bad for all the pain he went through for something that never should have happened in the first place. She wasn't sacred for Sasuke...she was scared for Naruto. This is unlike Hinata's scene where she says that she is doing it for her own selfish desires. She is not saving him from death. Naruto wasn't going to die right then and there because Pain was going to take Naruto alive to extract the Bijuu. So this scene, to me, feels more romantic, but because it was just an over-blown meldramatic kitten, people didn;t see it that way.

It's funny when Analyzer mentioned us wanting a "ham-fisted" rejection and yet everything Hinata did was seen as romantice or some kind of confession and yet the only reason why her confession is talked about is BECAUSE it was ham-fisted.

It comes down to this, NaruSaku's moments may not look overblown and ham-fisted or "romantic," but that doesn't mean they aren't. Actually, the more subtle the better cause that is what real love is. Real love is not some rainbows and butterflies heart shaped haze that surrounds lovers like some fantasy. True love is gritty and looks messy, but in the mess you feel the spirit between them

This is unlike most NH scenes where it is all "Looks gawdy and forced fantasy bull," all the while having no spirit behind them. When you have Junko say "I feel nothing between them," you feel it. NH doesn't "feel" like a real loving couple because they have no connections. And since everybody bases the entire kittening relationship on "Because Hinata loves him."

I promise, ask people why NH deserve to be together and all they talk about is how Hiata did this, and how HInata felt that. Nothing about whether they had a connection, but because Hinata is ham-fisted sweet and shy...she was quote unquote "The best." These people are disgusting that they don't know true love when they see it. Do you guys want christmas trees on that kitten too?

People only like NH because "it is shiny" and they are dumb animals that only look at "shiny" things....even if that shiny thing is just a plastic doorknob you can get in a bargain bin. Meanwhile, NaruSaku is like an obisian rock from a volcanico. It doesn't look that great at first, but show it in the light and it sparkles brighter and is more precious that that cheap peice of knock off

True love isn't about getting what YOU want...it is about the person you love being the happiest they can be. Hinata is not in love with Naruto because if she truly was she would have cared about him more than she does herself. It is easy to jump infront of a bullet...not so easy to willing give up your own happiness for theirs. That is true love.

 

Thanks for that analysis. Just throwing it in: You could counter by saying that this scene isn't supporting NS since Sakura got hurt or "rejected" by Kyuubi Naruto and this scene would have a greater impact if Naruto actually calmed down when she interfered. At least, that is what I thought about it, taking it totally out of context. I also thought about the fact that Naruto kind of destroyed the bridge, doesn't that mean that he also destroyed his connection with Sakura?

I could say the same with NH with Naruto ignoring her and telling her that she doesn't need him to feel strong. (when he saved her from the white zetsu clones) Couldn't that be seen as a kind of rejection?

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 26 November 2017 - 06:19 PM.

[DrK]

The Heaven and Earth birdge scene to me was far more powerful than Hinata's confession.

Yeah. The whole thing is just kittening appalling. Storytelling wise, it's fine if Hinata doesn't get what she wants. That scene and every other NH moment are a 2 at max. Even the war ones where he's starting to seriously shoot NS in the foot are still a 2. Because they're all really weak and not very impactful. Maybe I will do the hug scene next and talk about what that part of the story meant for Sakura.

[T XD]

At least deserves the rating of 3 : " Kishi should not have included this if NHSS was the intention ".

 

H&E bridge scene is one of the main known moments of NS.

[James S Cassidy]

Yeah. The whole thing is just kittening appalling. Storytelling wise, it's fine if Hinata doesn't get what she wants. That scene and every other NH moment are a 2 at max. Even the war ones where he's starting to seriously shoot NS in the foot are still a 2. Because they're all really weak and not very impactful. Maybe I will do the hug scene next and talk about what that part of the story meant for Sakura.

Heck, you can even mention that Sakura wanted and asked to learn Yamato's technique to keep Naruto's kyuubi at bay so he no longer suffers from it, but Yamato said she can;t because she doesn't have wood technique. I never see Hinata doing that. I never see Hinata doing anything about the real problems Naruto faced. She never cared unless she was right in front of him. For a person who stalks him...she knows very little about him. She doesn't even understand all the pain he went through with Sasuke.

How can this woman say she loves this man when she literally knows NOTHING about him...meanwhile, Sakura knew it all and then some. Even if the ending shat on her, she still knows more about Naruto than Hinata ever will.

I hate it....I hate it when so many fans ignore this because "Hinata looks so cute and amazing." I hate it when so many fans only acknowledge what "looks good" rather than what is good. They don't see it like we do and it breaks my heart. All they cared about was their damn fantasies meanwhile we saw these characters as almost real...they may have won the so called war, but the paradise they won is a toxic waste dump.

This is why I always say we are the true fans. To us, these were more than just characters...they were ideals. Just like Goku, Superman, and many other characters we connect with. The fact that those ideals were thrown out because some spoiled brats wanted their way....that is the true tragedy of this series.

 

[BlackShirtGuy]

Speaking of scenes Kishi should've avoided creating (especially if as some people say everyting and the movie were all planned) let's take a look at this scene here:

What does this two pages say about Naruto's feelings for Sakura? Because what I understood from it is that it was far more significant that a mere "shallow crush" as the Last and some people say it is. Why is he painfully smiling at Sakura if his only goal was to get with her to "beat" Sasuke? Why does he walk away? Why does Tsunade says he is far more considerate than she thought? Why Kishi put this here if he was gonna go with the Naruto never understood love, he saw it the same as liking food?

Really this  scene deserves, at least, a 3 in DrK ranking also it's nothing more than lousy filler now that the series ended, since everything with the ending contradicts all of this scene, also left a lot of questions unanswered.

[James S Cassidy]

Speaking of scenes Kishi should've avoided creating (especially if as some people say everyting and the movie were all planned) let's take a look at this scene here:
 

What does this two pages say about Naruto's feelings for Sakura? Because what I understood from it is that it was far more significant that a mere "shallow crush" as the Last and some people say it is. Why is he painfully smiling at Sakura if his only goal was to get with her to "beat" Sasuke? Why does he walk away? Why does Tsunade says he is far more considerate than she thought? Why Kishi put this here if he was gonna go with the Naruto never understood love, he saw it the same as liking food?

What about the scene of Sasuke bashing the apples away from Sakura? And still, what about chapter 693?

I hate it. I hate it all. A time when Sasuke doesn't kill Sakura in part 1 all of sudden means the world, but several scenes of attempted murder, obvious abuse, and more...apparently means nothing. I hate it. I hate just how kittening pathetic the fandom seens this kitten. It makes me angry every single time. To them, only moments between Naruto and HInata count and only moments between Sasuke and Sakura count...., but ONLY if they are positive. If they are negative we are reading it wrong. How convenient.

I really wish I could turn back time and change it all. I really wish that I could have been the editor and told Kishimoto to write the story correctly instead of this....garbage.

 

[DrK]

What about the scene of Sasuke bashing the apples away from Sakura? And still, what about chapter 693?

I hate it. I hate it all. A time when Sasuke doesn't kill Sakura in part 1 all of sudden means the world, but several scenes of attempted murder, obvious abuse, and more...apparently means nothing. I hate it. I hate just how kittening pathetic the fandom seens this kitten. It makes me angry every single time. To them, only moments between Naruto and HInata count and only moments between Sasuke and Sakura count...., but ONLY if they are positive. If they are negative we are reading it wrong. How convenient.

I really wish I could turn back time and change it all. I really wish that I could have been the editor and told Kishimoto to write the story correctly instead of this....garbage.

Yeah, this thread is probably going to be infuriating. I honestly got kind of emotional writing the last part of the OP. That panel with Sakura in pain is not something I find easy to look at when I know how it ends. She should have been rewarded with a wonderful life. She was such a courageous girl like Chiyo said. It's not fair.

Edited by DrK, 26 November 2017 - 07:53 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Yeah, this thread is probably going to be infuriating. I honestly got kind of emotional writing the last part of the OP. That panel with Sakura in pain is not something I find easy to look at when I know how it ends. She should have been rewarded with a wonderful life. She was such a courageous girl like Chiyo said. It's not fair.

It's hard not to, my man. It is hard not to. I am just glad I got people who understand and share in my pain so we can stick together despite it all.

We loved this series so much. We weren't NS fans because we were self-insertive and wanted a fantasy. We were NS fans because we saw these characters for who they are. Like you, I was NH as well until I saw something better. Something more real. Something that connected better than a fantasy that doesn't exist. NH is NOT real. That is NOT how relationships work and it is NOT how they are happy. I know because I tried living a very similar set up and I was miserable. She became too clingy and too jealous. She made my life miserable and unhappy and that is how I see it now.

And to see Sakura being treated not just by Sasuke, but by the fans so harshly just because she exists is down right disgusting. They will never see the characters how we saw them. They may have been fictional, but they were real to us and seeing them face what they face is like seeing ourselves. If they can overcome, we can overcome. We are not them, but we know what it was like to be them. To see Kishimoto give up on them...give up on all of it jsut to suit someone else just tells me "Give up on your dreams and just go with what you can get. Be thankful because you suck."

I don't know how much this means to you, but for someone like me...with what I have been through. Naruto was the one thing that kept me in line. Naruto and Superman. Now it is just Superman and Saitama with Naruto tell me to give up and accept whatever is told to me.

I want to believe Kishimoto was forced. I want to believe that this isn't what he wanted, but I can't pretend it is like that. I can't pretend anything anymore because I am reminded more and more of the horrible people that exist in this fandom.

"NH has to be canon because I said so. kitten everyone else."

Is that really what a fan means to just not care about everything they ben through? I should be happy that Naruto settled for Hinata because she has huge kittens and is a stalker? No...never. I refuse. This is why I see us as true fans. It is more than like liking the series...it is about seeing thing the pairing fans can't. We just so happen to be NS fans. And all the anti-enders see it too. This is why they say all of this.

And I still want to ask...Was NaruSaku really such a bad thing? Did you really think the end of the world would happen if NS occured? I guess so.

"Am I better off dead?
Am I better off a quitter?
They say I'm better off now
Than I ever was with her
As they take me to my local down the street
I'm smiling but I'm dying trying not to drag my feet

They say a few drinks will help me to forget her
But after one too many I know that I'll never
Only they can’t see where this is gonna end
They all think I'm crazy but to me it's perfect sense"

Edited by James S Cassidy, 26 November 2017 - 08:13 PM.

[Kasimir38]

That is not an expression you give food, also not an expression you have if you lost a "competition". That is clearly the expression of someone who realized that his crush was not returned and who stepped back in consideration of the other person's feelings. I always thought that Naruto appeared to be very mature and really loved Sakura because he was able to suppress his own feelings for her sake. Like: I have feelings for this girl, but she has feelings for this boy and I have to accept it because I respect her/them.

 

Not: I lost against Sasuke in a stupid and childish competition.

 

See the eyebrows? Ever heard of the term: Darwin grief muscle? Translated into sadness. Why should Naruto show suppressed sadness if he didn't understand what was going on? 

I give the scene a 3 because the story was still young at that point.

[DrK]

Not: I lost against Sasuke in a stupid and childish competition.

What was he thinking when she hugs him during Pain arc? "I'm catching up!" Or, "This one was way more intimate, so you lose, Teme! Naruto 1, Sasuke, ZERO!"

[Kasimir38]

What was he thinking when she hugs him during Pain arc? "I'm catching up!" Or, "This one was way more intimate, so you lose, Teme! Naruto 1, Sasuke, ZERO!"

 

I don't know. To be honest, I always felt like Part 1 Naruto and Part 2 Naruto were two different people.

[DrK]

 

I don't know. To be honest, I always felt like Part 1 Naruto and Part 2 Naruto were two different people.

And Part 3 is yet another Naruto. Same thing with Sakura as I talked about in my general forum thread. Why is it that only Naruto and Sakura go through these massive changes? Sasuke didn't change that much. Neither did Hinata or any other character.

[Kasimir38]

The only thing I know is that writers that don't have a clear plot line or a clear picture of the ending tend to lose the connection with the characters and they transform during the process of writing since the Author also never stays the same.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

And Part 3 is yet another Naruto. Same thing with Sakura as I talked about in my general forum thread. Why is it that only Naruto and Sakura go through these massive changes? Sasuke didn't change that much. Neither did Hinata or any other character.

No kidding, even if I feel everyone in the end is a worse version of themselves.