53 replies to this topic

[kidNinja]

Didn't see a topic on it but due to low sales, this kitten is being canceled.

I guess the garbage epilogue and all of the retcons weren't a fluke. Kishimoto can't blame NH fans, SP or anybody for this one.

[Bail o' Lies]

Oh that's because it already been mentioned and there was a general topic for that manga: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=16477

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Didn't see a topic on it but due to low sales, this kitten is being canceled.
I guess the garbage epilogue and all of the retcons weren't a fluke. Kishimoto can't blame NH fans, SP or anybody for this one.

Burrito is Cancelled?

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Not surprising that this series last things might be due Japan's fanbase support. I'm not referring to volume sales. Kishi already reached the apex of his mangaka career through Naruto. The way the original Naruto manga concluded and the response to the fans is something to look into. If Japanese people go to a manga store and see his name branded on any manga (ones that had a falling out) would not pick it up.

[Bail o' Lies]

Burrito is Cancelled?

Look at the title of the topic...I hope that's a joke.

 

Not surprising that this series last things might be due Japan's fanbase support. I'm not referring to volume sales. Kishi already reached the apex of his mangaka career through Naruto. The way the original Naruto manga concluded and the response to the fans is something to look into. If Japanese people go to a manga store and see his name branded on any manga (ones that had a falling out) would not pick it up.

Yeah that going to haunt him if nothing else. The whole abandon the domestic fanbase for the international one means; that he soured his relationship with his early buyers, and if the oversea don't get him the return he needs. His manga are't going to last long after that.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Look at the title of the topic...I hope that's a joke.

 

Yeah that going to haunt him if nothing else. The whole abandon the domestic fanbase for the international one means; that he soured his relationship with his early buyers, and if the oversea don't get him the return he needs. His manga are't going to last long after that.

Sorry. I was in the wrong thread.

[Phantom_999]

Burrito is Cancelled?

 

Well that depends on what you're asking. First off the Topic is "Samurai 8" Kishi's new manga after Naruto. It got the axe, roughly after a year of serialization. Second, Boruto was only cancelled off Toonami in the U.S.A. but not cancelled in general. Unfortunately.  

Edited by Phantom_999, 18 April 2020 - 11:54 AM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

That's rough. I know Shounen Jump can be especially merciless about giving the ol' axe. Since I don't often follow SJ series, I never read it, but better luck next time maybe.

[Phantom_999]

Its not luck, he needs to actually engage the readers in the story and that didnt happen. Not to mention he seriously alienated the almost all of the Naruto fan base with SPs bs so many former fans of his dont even want to try it.

Edited by Phantom_999, 18 April 2020 - 03:30 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Its not luck, he needs to actually engage the readers in the story and that didnt happen. Not to mention he seriously alienated the almost all of the Naruto fan base with SPs bs so many former fans of his dont even want to try it.

 

With the ruthless nature of Shounen Jump's system, there's definitely a certain level of luck at play. Previous popularity is never an assurance of future success - this is true for other manga magazine publications too of course, to an extent - but SJ hinges what it keeps and what it discards more heavily on week to week popularity than most. This certainly does not just apply to Kishimoto and this series failure to take off. The first year is perhaps the biggest hurtle in SJ, and few manage to clear it, and then many of those are lucky to last 3 years. A lot of series' success with Shounen Jump is likely a matter of coming along at the right time, feeding into the current trends and fan demand. I don't mean that necessarily as a criticism or put down, just that SJ becoming as big as it did and still is in the industry while magazine sales have fallen in general (though manga tankoban sales are doing pretty well worldwide, for series that do well enough to reach that point) that success has been built on keeping up with those demands and trends in readership.

 

https://www.cbr.com/...s-canceled/amp/

 

https://youtu.be/QnqHYG8abtg

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 18 April 2020 - 04:37 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Oh yeah I know what you mean. even veterans need to have some luck hitting the audience with a new work though, and a quality work won't guarantee to sell. I  was just under the impression Kishi's failure particularly didn't really have much to do with luck, if at all.  As I heard it. the story had too much exposition to it and not enough activity to actually engage and entertain the audience by those that actually read it. the story took off in a very rushed and underwelming manner that did not even let readers digest what was going on first etc. etc. and other problems like those. Then there was the whole falling out of favor of Naruto fans which I am sure there were incredibly many. That is how I see it in any case. Like, I'm sure if any famous manga artist were to make a new work after their magnum opus series is complete they would obviously have an up hill battle for them. I just feel there is more external factors and biases against Samurai 8 in general, rather than luck. If a creator has upset a huge portion of their fanbase they basically dug their own grave, career wise, if you ask me.

Edited by Phantom_999, 21 April 2020 - 06:10 PM.

[ree]

I think it's a revenge from Japanese against Kishimoto, for what he did in the end of Naruto. They won't buy his work anymore

[Phantom_999]

Oh, that is a factor in all likelihood. But there are others

[Illnevergiveup3]

it will happen to his future works as well, until he fixes what he needs to fix.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Let's be honest. Even if Shuisha/Shonen Jumps gives Kishi the go ahead to redo the ending. It will not benefit him in any way. Only serves as a detriment to his fan base. The only way to fix this is that the creators followed Sunrises Gundam series as an "alternate" setting. It's the only shot to gain back some of the fans he lost. It's 50% because those that had a fallout had already moved on. This setting is not a retcon as the restart point would be from the chapter labelled "The True Ending". This was the start of the Infinite Tsukiyomi. Everyone has an their dream. The events that lead to the conclusion and Boruto Era all happens from Hinata's dream. Basically just like milking the cow with multiple ending to choose from. Other factors come into play that the current creators are NH biased on the surface. The Infinite Tsukiyomi project will take too long. A reboot would only be a merit towards the pro enders. If any possibility, this Borrito franchise must come to a complete end and no part  third generation lol. 

 

And as above, I agree with some of your guys post. Spot on indeed. Even if Kishi is a top 10 most successfully mangaka in the past 50 years is nothing in the eyes of Jump executives. Based from what Iv'e read, from the fan response, slow start and what many as Phantom posted too much exposition in the story; very fast pace start that dug its self far too deep, but started to show signs of development despite the rushed ending. A lot of this reviews are in agreement even from people from those who had a fallout with Kishi I noticed. From my POV, I've read far too many story like these (not referring to the current genre) that I takes up to 150 chapters just to get an Idea and feel about what the story is about and clear up the confusion and boredom only to become pure gem.

 

This is where fan support comes into play for veteran authors, especially, as a high caliber mangaka of this generation. SJ monitor's the audience traffic, especially, oversees. That includes the sales in volumes are lows. Those that pirate the comic does increased the series getting more recognized and it will be beneficial in the the long run because people would buy them to support the author (if author becomes favorite). It doesn't seem like Samurai 8 did succeed in this era due to it being cancelled.

 

Other factors do come into play like it was mention above, luck still does come into play even for veterans. Another to take note is that Kishi's style is not up to date with this current era. Kishi is simply old school 80's and mid 90's type of anime/manga fan/dude. So ecchi and romcom/romance is not his forte could also play a factor to bring in new fans of this generation. As for my speculation that I've been saying way back 2016 that Kishi is having publication issues, meaning that no other company like Kadosha would take up his submission all relates back to Naruto ending. Although it remains a theory, I think  Kishi cannot leave SJ and that why he will likely cling to SJ for the remainder of his career. Only time will tell.

 

Any advice as a amateur  author as myself I can give to Kishi (although it would sound like an infant trying to give a full grown adult a lecture  ) is that he should just give up publishing in his country and move his future works overseas and get away from the Japanese. Not saying that he needs to move to another country. South Korea is an ideal spot for him to take his art skill to the next level. There's Naver well known and the creation of "Webtoons". Top series known as The Noblesse and Tower of God came from there. Also there's Valkyrie Comics that is famous for The Breaker and Freezing manwa manga if he chooses to keep to the manga black and white style.

 

If looking towards the west, I can only think of Dark Horse Comics that is only manga house on the continent. I heard he wants to do a seinen manga in the future from one of those Naruto interviews. DH is the place to do and he will have a better shot engaging his old western Naruto fans. I know that a lot of Asian people including a Japanese male such as Kishi has their pride a biased towards their homeland/country and its culture. However, it would be the perfect opportunity to educate the western world of historical Japan and its culture in his own way by doing another Samurai Edo Period thriller on par with his idol Hiroaki Samura (Blade of The Immortal). Maybe it could rival Vagabond.

 

Reasons for my recommendations is that all these publications brands are digital and do not have Japans infamous deadline criteria  and manga cancellations. Manwa authors could choose to go on haitus and start a new series whenever they like. They can take plenty of breaks something that you cannot do in Jump Comics. Western comic author similar too. Although, publishing comics in the states might differ a bit. I think American/English comics go by issues means book or volume. Not by chapter. 

 

If that does not work out. Kishi can only degrade himself from being an author to a standout artist/illustrator for other writers' works before calling it a career. 

 

I expect he keeps the same trend and keeps on publishing at SJ only to get axed over and over lol 

 

 

 

 

[Bail o' Lies]

To be honest the idea of Kishimoto just redoing the ending is kind of long past since outside a few people most that hated the ending have moved on at this point. i suspect especially in Japan. Even if he revealed what happened I doubt most would really care. 

 

He can do a decent romance that not really the problem. i'd say in that department it was held back more due the Naruto making him insecure about his ability to write a romance.

 

As for him being too stuck in the 80-90's yes because his princess combat system would have actually been innovative during that time. Now a days it just dated to the point of bring archaic. 

[RulesofNature]

Kishi has pretty much become the manga equivalent of Mitsuo Fukuda. Sure, his work was successful in it's heyday but not only is that long past, what he did with his work managed to divide the audience. His defenses only served to further alienate them with accusations of pandering being thrown around quite generously.

 

I think what he should do is downgrade. Like, get out of SJ entirely if he can and publish his work over the internet. After all, the game has changed since Naruto's conception. Web novels are a thing, and in the case of successful ones lead to being edited into light novels, which can result in manga and even anime adaptations. One Punch Man began it's life as a web comic, a series I follow is getting serialized, and a recent web-comic called This Croc Will Die in 100 Days not only got media attention with it's ending but it's also getting an anime movie.

 

Kishi's has to regain the trust of his audience or find a new one. That's a given. His name is damaged goods at this point. If he wants to continue being a mangaka, he should start again from the very bottom.

 

Funnily enough, remember how I talked about Kamen Rider Zero-One doing a plot with a mangaka that really felt like it was a jab at Kishi? Well, he returned last week. He wanted his own assistant robot not to keep helping him draw his manga, but to write his own after realizing the robot had some decent ideas.

[Bail o' Lies]

I think webcomic are a bit too much of a downgrade, but he should honestly go to one of the less competitive magazine where hopefully they will know to get him a decent editor. 

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

I wonder how the Kishi defenders react to this. I hope they blame us.

[Phantom_999]

They do, surely.

Edited by Phantom_999, 20 April 2020 - 05:33 PM.