Karins perceptions and how they show Sasukes fall
#1
Posted 22 February 2010 - 09:41 PM
I found an Essay by Kanae the founder and owner of the Spice and Ice FC over at Naruto forums regarding thisvery matter and I agree with most of the points directly made.
how karin is used to show sasukes fall
the essence of the essay is that Karin not team 7 is used as the most important factor to showcase Sasukes fal into darkness. Both as a result of her perceptions and by her actions, as well as Sasukes actions with her.
this fall is a sharp and drastic one given the events of chapter 414-415 where in the midst of the battle with the Hachibi Sasuke displayed for the first time since part 1, his acceptance of the true principles of the manga. gaining strength by protecting whats precious to you. In this case Karin and by proxy team hawk. His brief flash of team 7 showed this acceptance as he for that one brief moment embraced that principle and gained first Amateratsu, then the ability to control it.
however this is brought into sharp contrast by the events of the kage summit where it is Karin who consistently speaks to the audience about Sasukes darkness and changes, and who through Sasukes actions shows that the person he once risked life and limb for and trusted in his blind spot is slipping away or being pushed away from him.
the final moment of sasukes true fall too darkness comes when again from karins perspective we get Sasukes sacrafice of the person he fought so hard for agaisnt killerbee.
even Sakura and Kakashis internal dialogue about Sasukes darkness is only a confrimation of what Karin has already told us and shown us.
I think the next few chapters will showcase a very interesting series of moments between Sakura and Karin. a series of moments where the two will contrast each other and possibly bond in a way neither will expect or realoize till much later.
this bond may very well come into play much later in the story as both along with naruto try and save Sasuke from his self imposed darkness and Karins loyalty which many have criticized her for may very well be the only saving grace that redeems Sasuke in the end.
..(^)> PENGUIN!!!!
C(...)D
..m.m
Training with a sannin 2 1/2 years
new pair of gloves 20 ryou
the look on your best friend, and former sensei's face's when you cause a small earth quake. Princeless
Catsis Fan Fiction
#2
Posted 22 February 2010 - 10:10 PM
There may be a parallel between Naruto's lowpoint (getting beat up and fainting due to his inability to accept the changes in Sasuke) and Sasuke's rise into villany. Just as Danzou and the Sandaime were compared to yin and yang, Naruto and Sasuke seem to be just as comparable.
With this person's (people's?) essay in mind, I think I can finish Karin's sentence from the bottom of page 4-ch.483 "she must love him too, but [Sasuke isn't the same person that she met and fell in love with.]"
#3 Guest_SS3 Goku_*
Posted 22 February 2010 - 10:15 PM
#4
Posted 22 February 2010 - 10:21 PM
Karin does seem to be playing a bigger role here, but for her to be instrumental in his change or his redemption says a big screw you to 90% of this plot. That should be Naruto's department. He convenient use as a chakra sensor makes her a good expository for things we as readers do not see. Did we really need her to be saying "look his chakra!" in order to know he's been messed up? Killing people should have been enough. She's a supplement, a very useful one, in showcasing Sasuke's turn to utter insanity. Do I consider her primary? Naw, Sasuke does that well enough on his own.
#5
Posted 22 February 2010 - 10:50 PM
Whenever I think about why Karin has been with him so long, I end up scratching my head. I suppose a positive for SasuKari is that Karin apparently doesn't mind Sasuke being evil. Which, in my eyes, isn't a positive for her at all :/ He pretty much showed his true colors when he willingly joined akatsuki and the same guy his beloved brother was protecting him against. Karin, like Sakura, is supposed to be the smart one, and yet this didn't really send up any warning bells nor make her reevaluate her feelings for a guy she met once when they were 12. Sasuke didn't just start to become evil around her, just like Broken mentioned. He has had tendencies towards darkness ever since early part I. I think Kishi used Karin to make it unarguable fact, but that's about it.
#6
Posted 22 February 2010 - 11:17 PM
It really raised my hopes again, so...!!! That was really interesting! *changes siggy*
#7
Posted 22 February 2010 - 11:25 PM
... but to add on Broken Figurine's post and others... did he also killed those ninja before taking down Orochimaru? Some people forgot about that scene. Even though those ninjas were fodder, I mean come on, that was a sign that he may become a villain back then.
What's Happening with the Naruto series as of now!
#8
Posted 23 February 2010 - 12:33 AM
However, I concede that Broken Figurine makes a very good point as well.
Edited by Nee-sama, 23 February 2010 - 12:34 AM.
#9
Posted 23 February 2010 - 01:02 AM
Karin's comments on Sasuke turning towards the darkness did not convince me at first. I intended to ignore her, but after, she was stabbed, I had to stop and analyze what she had been telling the readers all along.
The part that I don't agree with his Karin been a key to Sasuke's redemption. How can she be the key? In my personal opinion and how someone else has stated, if Sasuke gets redeem it will be because of Naruto. Naruto is the only one with that special quality that can turned evil maniacs into saints.
- Forest Gump
#10
Posted 23 February 2010 - 01:46 AM
#11
Posted 23 February 2010 - 02:30 AM
Second
#12
Posted 23 February 2010 - 02:54 AM
I'm don't care much about SasuKarin. At least be happy its more canon that SasuSaku.
#13
Posted 23 February 2010 - 05:03 AM
she was used to very explicitly show this fall and has some interesitng moments of contrast between the sasuke that rescued her from that bear and the Sasuke who struck her down with a chidori coming up.
and she does mind him being evil. hell that was one of the prime points of the essay. She may not ahve cared about Konoha and his joining akatsuki was as Sasuke himself put it a means to an end. SO no evil there.
yet she was very clearly shown to be disturbed by his descent into darker paths, and the she was there to narrate and very succinctly state jsut how far he had fallen.
..(^)> PENGUIN!!!!
C(...)D
..m.m
Training with a sannin 2 1/2 years
new pair of gloves 20 ryou
the look on your best friend, and former sensei's face's when you cause a small earth quake. Princeless
Catsis Fan Fiction
#14
Posted 23 February 2010 - 06:20 AM
The thing I don't like about this is this idea of telling is somehow has more of an impact than showing. Sasuke has proved through many actions of his downfall that have gone beyond Karin. It was his actions and his course of the story that have made this downfall possible. How can you say there is no evil to his joining Akatsuki? That there is no evil to killing Orochimaru? No evil to leaving behind Suigetsu and Juugo? As Soupy said, why on earth would she stay with him? Oh, that's right, she's in love with him. Suffering from a delusion, more like. She can tell his "chakra" is changing, and she was used to showcase that Sasuke has no sympathy for anyone no matter what their relationship is to him; mind you team 7 had long ago showed this, Suigetsu and Juugo showed this, Orochimaru showed this... The moment she was taken hostage there was no surprise that she was going to be stabbed. Remember what he said to Naruto? He warned that those who get in his way will die; Karin got in the way.
The scene was big, yes, but if that's the way you want to look at it there are many "keys". Karin is not special in this regard, the only thing that separates her from say Sakura was that she had this unconditional, in my opinion delusional, love for him that it's much like the Hinata confession. The scene would not have been the same if it was say Tenten, because of the feelings Hinata had.
Karin on her own would not sufficiently explain Sasuke's downfall. She is not that important to the darkness going on in his life. It's sad that a character like her would be put above Team 7, the main villain, Orochimaru and Kabuto... While I feel she may have some further significance to the story, I feel this emphasis on her is exaggerated and to put it mildly, too SasuKarin-esque.
#15
Posted 23 February 2010 - 08:59 AM
the fact that she was in love with him isnt in dispute, and was given even greater credence by his saving her. At the time she was introduced Sasauke wasnt what we would call evil. driven , obsessed , and angry sure but he was focused on revenge and that was very clear, even to the point where he didnt kill a single sound ninja.
yet she was there when he suddenly broke that rule and killed the samaruai that opposed him.
As to orochimaru ill quote ehr databook entry
And the fact that she told off Madara shows she didnt care about Akatsuki either. she followed Sasuke on his quest and no one elses.
So in closing yes there were many keys but Karin was the main key used to showcase the fall.
..(^)> PENGUIN!!!!
C(...)D
..m.m
Training with a sannin 2 1/2 years
new pair of gloves 20 ryou
the look on your best friend, and former sensei's face's when you cause a small earth quake. Princeless
Catsis Fan Fiction
#16
Posted 23 February 2010 - 10:09 AM
Oh and btw I agree with you Catsi!
#17
Posted 23 February 2010 - 04:15 PM
#18
Posted 23 February 2010 - 04:27 PM
Edited by pinkheartsyellowstars, 23 February 2010 - 04:29 PM.
#19
Posted 23 February 2010 - 04:38 PM
#20
Posted 23 February 2010 - 04:47 PM
Oh,
so it means, Karin saw the soft-side of Sasuke first, his smile.
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