68 replies to this topic

[Mistraal]

Chapter 682 is just it for me. I can't take this story seriously anymore.

Kishi finally introduces a strong female character, (a villain no less) then has her cry the very next chapter then go down to a punch in the face after a REVERSE HAREM jutsu. Meanwhile every single other female character ever introduced is standing by, either crying, drowning in mediocrity, or doing both of these while functioning as paring fodder.

Im out. It was fun but this is just too blatently sexist for me and I refuse to continue supporting Kishmoto as an artist.

Adieu.

EDIT: In case someone wanted elaboration to why i feel the way I do I posted it here:  http://www.narusaku....e=3#entry541413

Edited by Mistraal, 26 June 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[sushi.]

I hit my limit a while ago. But I keep reading it. You can read it and not take it seriously you know? Naruto doesn't influence me enough to upset me that much anymore, but I keep up with it. And it's not completely my decision. I have an urge to read every wednesday, it would make me more frustrated to fight those urges because of my disappointment.

There has been a lot worse kitten than this. Maybe this was the last drop? I don't think it's sexist though, but I wouldn't say Kidhi doesn't have those tendencies at all.

[luffyq1]

I don't blame you. I somewhat envy you because you don't have the curiosity that I have to see how far a man can disappoint me for something that I invested in for more than a decade.

[BlueStarSaber]

Oh please you just be back next week to complain.

[Gojira]

I'm not a woman so it doesn't offend me and I'm used to the writing being dragged on so it works out.

It's still not as bad as Toriyomas writing about female characters atleast there's that.

[Jenskott]

 

 

Oh please you just be back next week to complain.

 

Definitely.

 

Anyway, Kaguya did go down with a punch. Naruto took her by surprise and got a lucky hit. That was all.

 

Anyway, I have honestly read worse.

 

 

 

It's still not as bad as Toriyomas writing about female characters atleast there's that. 

 

That is a good example.

Edited by Jenskott, 25 June 2014 - 09:26 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

I'm not a woman so it doesn't offend me and I'm used to the writing being dragged on so it works out.

It's still not as bad as Toriyomas writing about female characters atleast there's that.

 

 

Definitely.

 

Anyway, Kaguya did go down with a punch. Naruto took her by surprise and got a lucky hit. That was all.

 

Anyway, I have honestly read worse.

 

 

That is a good example.

 

All showen manga have problems with females from what I read. Dragon Ball not having them fight and used for fan service, Bleach has a fair share of them fighting but also fan service and having locked up in a tower to be rescued if you don't like that, Fairy Tail actuarially is the one I see females get the most fights though it has the worst fan service, One piece while the females are active and do get a fair share of fights most look the same, usually around the weakest in a group, getting a power that more of to show the body and fan service. Naruto is funny enough one of the only ones I read that doesn't exploit its females character bodies that much except the Sexy no jutsu, though it does have its problems when it comes to giving them a number of fights and such.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Dragon Ball since the begining was never to be taken srsly, it's the opposite of the Naruto, on Part 1, it had logic, jutsus followed some kind of patterns, and Naruto and Sasuke worked around their best to beat an opponent.
Naruto part 2 lose that charm, how many times Sasuke beat an opponent with a jutsu that came from nowhere?
And Naruto who got worse when he started following that too.
I dont know but i felt like Part 2, Kishimoto lowered the bar to appeal to a broader audience.
I actually have no complaints on this chapter, i expect nothing on this manga anymore, Kishimoto already destroyed my enjoyment of NS, i'm just reading for the same reasons as luffy1q.

My top 1 manga is Hitsugi no Chaika.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 June 2014 - 01:31 PM.

[Inferno180]

There's been worse but it's just been for humor with that jutsu today, but if you're done you're done then. I mean it's been only a mere 3 chapters since the fight began still not much has occurred, but if that's how you feel then alright.

[Jenskott]

All showen manga have problems with females from what I read.

 

 

Nah.

 

It depends on what shonen manga you are reading. Usually you find this trouble in the fighting/action genre.

 

I think Cutey Honey was one of the first action shonen manga where the main character was a powerful woman. However it also was created by the man who introduced the concept of fanservice in anime.

 

I guess it was a prelude of things to come.

 

I agree many current fighting shonen manga have that trouble, though. Either the female characters are weak or they are used for fanservice.

 

Anyway if a person is determined to find something to complain about, he/she WILL do, regardless the content. If there are few female characters, he/she will complain the cast is unbalanced. If there are a good amount of female characters he/she will complain they are not important enough. If they have relevance story-wise and plenty scenes, he/she will complain they are weak or have few fights. If they are strong and often fight, he/she will complain they are only strong because they are portrayed as men with breasts personality-wise. Or there are too much fanservice. Or he/she does not agree with their life goals. Or they like to wear dresses and that is sexist. Or they like wear to trousers and that is sexist. Or they like wear skimpy dresses and that is sexist. Or they are meek and soft-spoken. Or they are strong-willed and loud (and apparently that do makes them men-like). Or they have not positive traits. Or they have too positive traits and they seem mary sues...

 

Obviously, I am not telling that is what people is doing here (searching excuses to complain) or a work with some or several of those traits can not be regarded like sexist. I can think of many works where the cast was mostly male, and the female characters often were damsels in distress or skimpily-dressed action girls with stereotypically male personality. Many fans would like to think that was a trouble of a bygone age and we are past that, but no. Sadly you can find that kind of stuff in works of all ages, including the current one. And sadly, you will find it in works of all future ages. Discrimination and prejudice will never disappear or go away, not matter how all of us wish otherwise (I am pretty pesimistic about it, I am sorry).

 

 

 

My top 1 manga is Hitsugi no Chaika. 

 

Firstly, can you try to improve your grammar, please? I have a hard time deciphering your posts when I read them.

 

Secondly, I had never heard of that series so I looked it up. I can not opine because I have only read a short summary, but it does not looks like something especial. Not that it means that it can not be enjoyable, of course. I have liked series that were merely or barely average, so that...

Edited by Jenskott, 25 June 2014 - 10:24 AM.

[Branden]

Wow. Out of all the reasons I could think of for someone to drop Naruto I never guessed it would be sexism. I'm just going to assume that this writing you perceive as sexist was merely the breaking point of your frustration with the series and not the sole cause of dropping it.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Firstly, can you try to improve your grammar, please? I have a hard time deciphering your posts when I read them.
 
Secondly, I had never heard of that series so I looked it up. I can not opine because I have only read a short summary, but it does not looks like something especial. Not that it means that it can not be enjoyable, of course. I have liked series that were merely or barely average, so that...

It's difficult for me to improve my grammar sorry.

Hitsugi no Chaika, it's kinda hard for me to explain without spoiling.
It's my top 1 shounen of the season.

[BlueStarSaber]

 

Nah.

 

It depends on what shonen manga you are reading. Usually you find this trouble in the fighting/action genre.

 

I think Cutey Honey was one of the first action shonen manga where the main character was a powerful woman. However it also was created by the man who introduced the concept of fanservice in anime.

 

I guess it was a prelude of things to come.

 

I agree many current fighting shonen manga have that trouble, though. Either the female characters are weak or they are used for fanservice.

 

Anyway if a person is determined to find something to complain about, he/she WILL do, regardless the content. If there are few female characters, he/she will complain the cast is unbalanced. If there are a good amount of female characters he/she will complain they are not important enough. If they have relevance story-wise and plenty scenes, he/she will complain they are weak or have few fights. If they are strong and often fight, he/she will complain they are only strong because they are portrayed as men with breasts personality-wise. Or there are too much fanservice. Or he/she does not agree with their life goals. Or they like to wear dresses and that is sexist. Or they like wear to trousers and that is sexist. Or they like wear skimpy dresses and that is sexist. Or they are meek and soft-spoken. Or they are strong-willed and loud (and apparently that do makes them men-like). Or they have not positive traits. Or they have too positive traits and they seem mary sues...

 

Obviously, I am not telling that is what people is doing here (searching excuses to complain) or a work with some or several of those traits can not be regarded like sexist. I can think of many works where the cast was mostly male, and the female characters often were damsels in distress or skimpily-dressed action girls with stereotypically male personality. Many fans would like to think that was a trouble of a bygone age and we are past that, but no. Sadly you can find that kind of stuff in works of all ages, including the current one. And sadly, you will find it in works of all future ages. Discrimination and prejudice will never disappear or go away, not matter how all of us wish otherwise (I am pretty pesimistic about it, I am sorry).

 

I see.

 

So given our history with treatment of women they will always get the most hate with fiction, unless I suppose its one of those characters that act to goofy like? Well I hear the most recent case of issues against women is sexual harassment so yeah one problem replaces another cause wasn't in only like 6-7 decades women where fighting to vote. (well Im a Optimistic person but I agree it will never go away fully)

[questdrivencollie]

If I wasn't fairly new to the fandom, and was a long time reader/watcher, it's possible I would have lost interest by now. The series has seemed to have gone down in quality, though I'm emotionally invested enough in the characters to want to keep reading. And I don't think it's all that terrible, but I'll keep in mind that there's a large chunk of the story I haven't read yet. (From Naruto's training with B to about chapter 619. I only watched the anime at first, dubbed at that which is pretty far behind, and began reading the manga later.)

As much as it'd be nice to see more female characters engaging in battle, I'm not sure I'd call the absence of that sexist in and of itself.

[Otaru]

Oh please you just be back next week to complain.

Probably yes

[ioria]

This has nothing to do with sexism..

I feel so disappointed by Kaguya's reaction I can't even find the strength to complain lol.

Anyway I'm just curious about the ending so I'll keep reading..

[James S Cassidy]

Was this thread really necessary? No offense, but sometimes I feel like some people just complain because they like hearing themselves talk. Sexism? You know I should claim sexism with all the shojo manga because they make all the men seem like stupid pretty boys who are really too high into themselves. Looking at you Ouren High School Host Club.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 25 June 2014 - 12:57 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Not to mention that it is Almost always romance in shojo like it's assuming all girls are into romance just like it assumes all boys like action and dislike romance or idea of romance. It is assumptions based on stereotypes created for the sake of convenience.
 

Chapter 682 is just it for me. I can't take this story seriously anymore.

Kishi finally introduces a strong female character, (a villain no less) then has her cry the very next chapter then go down to a punch in the face after a REVERSE HAREM jutsu. Meanwhile every single other female character ever introduced is standing by, either crying, drowning in mediocrity, or doing both of these while functioning as paring fodder.

Im out. It was fun but this is just too blatently sexist for me and I refuse to continue supporting Kishmoto as an artist.

Adieu.

Um, While I do understand and agree with your thoughts about empowering women in fiction, I wouldn't call this chapter sexist because Naruto just Surprised Kaguya, he didn't finish her off yet. and while It is true that the series did not portray the female characters too well as strong, independent women, their value shouldn't be undermined either or that would be just as sexist to not like them because they don't meet standards, if you don't mind me saying. Equality for women shouldn't be just about empowering them but also appreciate that not all women are strong just like not all men are strong either and shouldn't be pressured into being something that they are not.

 

But if you truly are done then I have nothing against that.

Edited by Phantom_999, 25 June 2014 - 01:36 PM.

[rocci]

gainax teach me that

this is just entertaiment, why so serious?

[Jenskott]

It's difficult for me to improve my grammar sorry.

 

 

Do not worry. Keep trying and you will eventually improve (that is my case. Although they are still poor, my grammar and spelling have improved a lot since I started to participate in English-speaking boards)

 

Hitsugi no Chaika, it's kinda hard for me to explain without spoiling.

It's my top 1 shounen of the season.

 

 

 

I am afraid it has little competition in that regard.

 

Nonetheless maybe I will check it. I have a hard time finding modern series I like, but sometimes I have more luck when I avoid the mainstream.

 

 

I see.

 

So given our history with treatment of women they will always get the most hate with fiction, unless I suppose its one of those characters that act to goofy like? Well I hear the most recent case of issues against women is sexual harassment so yeah one problem replaces another cause wasn't in only like 6-7 decades women where fighting to vote. (well Im a Optimistic person but I agree it will never go away fully)

 

Well, how you see, it is hard writing women in fiction because, even when you are trying to make sympathetic characters, people can hate them or accuse you from sexism. Did you know that Tolkien wrote in "Laws and Customs of Eldar" -a guideline for elven behaviour in his Legendarium- that there was no difference between men and women in elven society, there were no jobs or occupations were considered improper for men or women and force someone into marriage was considered a type of rape? Well, there is many people that reads those lines and declares it is "sexist".

 

I guess the best a writer can make is trying to write their characters -male and female- like people. Thus, even if someone finds his/her portrayal of women or minorities faulty, the writer can tell it was never his/her intent. Writer's intent counts for a lot.

 

 

 

Was this thread really necessary? No offense, but sometimes I feel like some people just complain because they like hearing themselves talk. Sexism? You know I should claim sexism with all the shojo manga because they make all the men seem like stupid pretty boys who are really too high into themselves. Looking at you Ouren High School Host Club.

 

You know, I was thinking alongside those lines. Okay, the thread opener has got fed up with the manga and has quit (or claimed he/she did). Understandable. But it was necessary opening a thread to loudly inform everyone of you are leaving because the manga sucks and its creator sucks? It feels like provoking message board drama unnecessarily.

 

When I have quit a forum I merely stopped to go. I did not open threads about it.

 

 

 

Not to mention that it is Almost always romance in shojo like it's assuming all girls are into romance just like it assumes all boys like action and dislike romance or idea of romance. It is assumptions based on stereotypes created for the sake of convenience.

 

I agree, and I have not idea of where, when or why those stereotypes were born. I have read many romance shonen manga and many action shojo manga.

 

But readers assume all shonen is action and all shojo is romance, so they look for action in shonen and romance in shojo. Hence, writers and publishers assume that is what readers want, so they make action stories when they want to make a shonen manga and romance stories when they want to publish a shojo manga. It is a vicious cycle.

 

 

 

and while It is true that the series did not portray the female characters too well as strong, independent women, their value shouldn't be undermined either or that would be just as sexist to not like them because they don't meet standards, if you don't mind me saying. 

 

I completely agree.

 

So if a woman is not a Xena Warrior Princess rip-off she is worthless? Is not it more sexist ASSUMING that she is worthless? You are assuming that is the intention of the creator when maybe it is you who think that she is worthless because she does not comply with your standards of what a woman must be.

Edited by Jenskott, 25 June 2014 - 01:47 PM.