54175 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

Fan made...looks like it.

 

I think I once found an article a provided a link to it explaining a theory about that. But beyond that; them being nice guys (more frequently lately male feminist) is what hollywood and the west have told them to act like in order to get girls to have sex with them. The "nice guys" are not strong enough to attract girls with their physical prowess, charismatic enough to charm them, funny enough to make them laugh, or smart enough to make money to show they could provide for them. So instead, they act nice maybe even become friends with a girl they like in hopes of a reward for basic decency; that she would have sex with them. Since their goal going into the relationship is sex they expect it to the point they feel entitle towards it, and because they are "nice guys" (therefor the morally good/just people of the situation by default) she much be a kitten/slut to refuse them.

It sounds striking familiar with what the pro-enders said about why NH made sense.

She "loved" him since the beginning, "loved" him before he became a hero, and "supported him" while everyone else treated him like crap and, even Kishimoto has even said this once, that that Naruto HAD to be with Hinata and if he didn't he would be a horrible human being and a selfish person.

Like, let's try this:
"Hinata is not strong enough to attract Naruto with her physical prowess (can't even kill a Ten Tail clone), charismatic enough to charm them (too shy to really saying anything to him even after several years), funny enough to make them laugh (Going back to the shy bit with no personality), or smart enough to make money to show they could provide for them (She was basically born into wealth being the "princess" and all and really had no career goals whatsoever beyond "I want to marry Naruto" ) So instead, she acts nice maybe even become friends with him like in hopes of a reward for basic decency; that she would have sex with him be noticed by him. Since her goal going into the relationship is sex attention they expect it to the point they feel entitled towards it. "

Okay, so debatable whether Hinata herself feels entitled as that is hard to pinpoint, but her fandom sure thinks she does.
 

 

@James - it's beautiful, isn't it? Kirabook, Chatte and Pumyteh really did a great job bringing it all together. Hopefully they'll do another one!!

It is. The keychains are really cool too. I am glad my friend bought it for me.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yes, that's right. In my head canon and in my fics, Naruto really gets absorbed by the Hyuuga clan. Because he always wanted a family to belong to, because Hinata is still under the sway of her family, and because her family is so deeply village/clan oriented that they would obviously use the fact that their son-in-law is Kage to their advantage. 

 

It's interesting that they didn't go that way though, instead with Hinata leaving everything behind (her career, her skills, her clan position and identity) to go play dutiful housewife to Naruto. Really takes her just another notch down.

 

There was a lot of lost potential with that, Tricksie, but I gotta admit, the idea you have there for your fanfiction works so well on so many levels because you would think Hiashi would try to take advantage of the fact Naruto is Hokage to help the clan, given he followed in his father's footsteps, and his father is the one who wanted Hizashi to be sacrificed in Hiashi's place just because he was a member of the Branch Family and not even seeming to care it was his own son.

 

 

This is even funny when people say there is no such thing as "Nice guys" or the "friendzone" because if you truly believe they exist you weren't really a nice guy...you just wanted sex.

Funny they never apply this to females. Can't females be "nice girls" only because they want something out of it? When you put it in this perspective, this makes Hinata the most selfish character in the series since day 1. What many see as a "innocent crush" was nothing more than a sex hungry girl who was so desperate for attention that she refused to stay in the friendzone.

In a way, Hinata is a gold-digger

 

In that sort of way, James, it's also that kind of kitten in the real world that get people to go into mass shootings and crap like that. And it does also make Hinata selfish, since she doesn't know ANYTHING still about Naruto, and the fact she just couldn't be happy if he was with someone else realistically, and that others like the people at Pierrot wouldn't just let her be what she had been from the day she first appeared, and that's just a side character.

[Phantom_999]

That really begs the question. If Naruto wasn't a PROUD FAILIURE in her eyes would she have even ever liked him it the first place? Hinata got horny for Naruto just because he was someone that picks himself back up and tries again when he fails at things which Hinata is vicariously putting herself into his shoes because she could NEVER be like that and just imagined herself as him. If he never had that would she have liked him in the first place, becasue she doesn't try to get to know him beyond a superficial level. Also, apply that to the AU in Road to Ninja. WHAT DOES "AU HINATA FIND ATTRACTIVE in Memna"? If you can't explain that then it is for shallow reasons that is not even love to begin with. Everyone else changing romantic interest makes sense like how AU Sakura and AU Ino don't fall for AU Sasuke because he is a shameless flirt that uses pick lines for every female he sees and therefore should't have his "sweet whispers" taken at face value, but what about AU Hinata? Was that ever explained?

Edited by Phantom_999, 21 July 2018 - 07:49 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

That really begs the question. If Naruto wasn't a PROUD FAILIURE in her eyes would she have even ever liked him it the first place? Hinata got horny for Naruto just because he was someone that picks himself back up and tries again when he fails at things which Hinata is vicariously putting herself into his shoes because she could NEVER be like that and just imagined herself as him. If he never had that would she have liked him in the first place, becasue she doesn't try to get to know him beyond a superficial level. Also, apply that to the AU in Road to Ninja. WHAT DOES "AU HINATA FIND ATTRACTIVE in Memna". If you can't explain that then it is for shallow reasons that is not even love to begin with. Everyone changing romantic interest makes sense like how AU Sakura and AU Ino don't fall for AU Sasuke because he is a shameless flirt that use pick lines for every female he sees and therefore should't have his "sweet whispers" taken at face value but what about AU Hinata? Was that ever explained?

According to her confession in the manga; she saw Naruto one day awhile she was having a self-pitying crying session about how miserable her life was when she heard Naruto training. He was the dead last in the class yet he was training really hard this inspired her...to do nothing... no wait she used his efforts to feel better about herself. So the thing is; before she saw him training she must have looked down on him like everyone else did for that even to be meaningful.

 

They changed it in the anime that he...i forget shouted his name at bullies, and the last he attacked the bullies. Making her fall in love with him.

 

In the Road of the Ninja. It sounded like Hinata personality switch from meek to aggressive, while Sakura mellowed out. Menma was suppose to be acting out against his parents in some angsty rebellious teenage phase so maybe she was attracted to that, but in that world's Naruto was still attracted to Sakura even with her personality different compared to what it is normally to us.

 

It sounds striking familiar with what the pro-enders said about why NH made sense.

She "loved" him since the beginning, "loved" him before he became a hero, and "supported him" while everyone else treated him like crap and, even Kishimoto has even said this once, that that Naruto HAD to be with Hinata and if he didn't he would be a horrible human being and a selfish person.

Okay, so debatable whether Hinata herself feels entitled as that is hard to pinpoint, but her fandom sure thinks she does.
 

It is. The keychains are really cool too. I am glad my friend bought it for me.

I'm sorry, I don't keep tract or try to observe of their attempt at wohooing the opposite sex, but they complain enough to know vaguely how it goes isn't that hard. You are right that part of the reason the love hinata is that she is them.

[VanitasDS76491]

Hey guys, look what came in the mail today.
My very good friend, Marie, bought this for me. You know her as Sarenity.
 

This is even funny when people say there is no such thing as "Nice guys" or the "friendzone" because if you truly believe they exist you weren't really a nice guy...you just wanted sex.
Funny they never apply this to females. Can't females be "nice girls" only because they want something out of it? When you put it in this perspective, this makes Hinata the most selfish character in the series since day 1. What many see as a "innocent crush" was nothing more than a sex hungry girl who was so desperate for attention that she refused to stay in the friendzone.
In a way, Hinata is a gold-digger

You ordered to awesome I got that zine and the kids chains.

[Kasimir38]

How can anyone dislike Sakura?   

 

There are so many, SO many dislikeable characters in fiction, annoying, clingy, immature girls that act as the Love interest and make me reconsider following a certain series. But Sakura was always different: She is strong, independent and mature. She has flaws and doesn't try to compensate them. She is actually acting like a real human being instead of a doll or Moe - duck brawn, also she is not one of these typical Tsundere - stereotypes of a girl that thinks highly of herself but is actually a frail little thing. I always looked up to Sakura, so I don't understand? Why do people hate her so much?

Please, don't tell me it's because she beats up Naruto.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

How can anyone dislike Sakura? 

 

There are so many, SO many dislikeable characters in fiction, annoying, clingy, immature girls that act as the Love interest and make me reconsider following a certain series. But Sakura was always different: She is strong, independent and mature. She has flaws and doesn't try to compensate them. She is actually acting like a real human being instead of a doll or Moe - duck brawn, also she is not one of these typical Tsundere - stereotypes of a girl that thinks highly of herself but is actually a frail little thing. I always looked up to Sakura, so I don't understand? Why do people hate her so much?

Please, don't tell me it's because she beats up Naruto.

 

Unfortunately, that is the case. Just because of Sakura smacking and hitting Naruto for comedic sake is one reason people hate her.

[Derock]

Please, don't tell me it's because she beats up Naruto.

 

Unfortunately, it is. And I don't know why because its a common thing over the years but for some reason, Sakura doesn't get a pass, yet other Tsundere characters from other series such as Kaoru, Kagome, and Misty gets one? Its also possible that they followed Masashi's design notes about Sakura's introduction like the Bible as she was initially unlikable from the start.

[James S Cassidy]

How can anyone dislike Sakura? 

 

There are so many, SO many dislikeable characters in fiction, annoying, clingy, immature girls that act as the Love interest and make me reconsider following a certain series. But Sakura was always different: She is strong, independent and mature. She has flaws and doesn't try to compensate them. She is actually acting like a real human being instead of a doll or Moe - duck brawn, also she is not one of these typical Tsundere - stereotypes of a girl that thinks highly of herself but is actually a frail little thing. I always looked up to Sakura, so I don't understand? Why do people hate her so much?

Please, don't tell me it's because she beats up Naruto.

Whenever I see posts about the Naruto fandom here in America and what they love/hate about Sakura...it is always the same. "She was very mean to Naruto." So Sasuke can attempt to murder Sakura on several occasions and he is well liked, but if Sakura is slightly mean to Naruto she is blasted and hated. I even asked why Hinata is so well liked or why they like her and it is because" She was always nice and there for Naruto." I asked to specify and all they can bring up is the Pein arc. When I press them about not being there when Naruto was sad on the swing or when Naruto was alone and jsut wanted a friend and Hinata did nothing...they always tell me "Well, she was shy so she has an excuse."

As soon as I start to prove how wrong they are, but showing how poorly Hinata is and how she was never really there for Naruto outside of rare occurrences...they blast me and say "You're just a salty pairing fan" or they say "You take this way too seriously." This what they always do when they start to lsoe...they go for personal insults.

"Remember the time Naruto was dying and HInata was there trying to keep him alive with her medical ninjutsu....oh wait, that was Sakura."
"Remember the time Naruto jumped in to save Hinata from Gaara proclaiming that he loved her...oh wait, that was Sakura."
"Remember the time Naruto told his own father that Hinata was his girlfriend and he compared her to Kushina...oh wait, that was Sakura."

All they have is the Pein arc confession and apparently this is all the proof they need. They can;t even remember what she did in the War arc. "Naruto was going to die if not for Hinata." Except, Pein was taking him in alive, they would have had days to retrieve him because pulling the kyuubi out is hard process (see Gaara), Naruto almost died from becoming Kurama if not for Minato's quick forsight, and Hinata didn't do anything to "save him." She even says herself that what she was doing was selfish and was only there to confess to him.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 14 June 2018 - 05:46 PM.

[jak123]

How can anyone dislike Sakura? 

 

There are so many, SO many dislikeable characters in fiction, annoying, clingy, immature girls that act as the Love interest and make me reconsider following a certain series. But Sakura was always different: She is strong, independent and mature. She has flaws and doesn't try to compensate them. She is actually acting like a real human being instead of a doll or Moe - duck brawn, also she is not one of these typical Tsundere - stereotypes of a girl that thinks highly of herself but is actually a frail little thing. I always looked up to Sakura, so I don't understand? Why do people hate her so much?

Please, don't tell me it's because she beats up Naruto.

There was hatred from the beginning, but I think when most people really started to hate her was when she did that confession. Even though then Kishimoto gave them more development after that. I think the Sakura = Kushina comparison came after that as well.

[James S Cassidy]

There was hatred from the beginning, but I think when most people really started to hate her was when she did that confession. Even though then Kishimoto gave them more development after that. I think the Sakura = Kushina comparison came after that as well.

The funny thing about the confession is is that the only reason why they said Sakura was lying was because Naruto said she was lying and apparently "Naruto knows all."

Naruto calls Obito the "coolest guy": "Naruto is so full of it."
Naruto says he loves Sakura: "Naruto is full of it."
Naruto says alot of things people don't believe....

But when Naruto calls Sakura a liar...apparently "See? Even Naruto knows truth when he sees it."

[jak123]

The funny thing about the confession is is that the only reason why they said Sakura was lying was because Naruto said she was lying and apparently "Naruto knows all."

Naruto calls Obito the "coolest guy": "Naruto is so full of it."
Naruto says he loves Sakura: "Naruto is full of it."
Naruto says alot of things people don't believe....

But when Naruto calls Sakura a liar...apparently "See? Even Naruto knows truth when he sees it."

I've seen people say that the way the confession was done, it wasn't the lie that Sakura loved him, it was the lie that she was done with Sasuke.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I've seen people say that the way the confession was done, it wasn't the lie that Sakura loved him, it was the lie that she was done with Sasuke.

 

Yeah, and it wasn't handled well in that end either by making her unable to move on from Sasuke's abusive nature towards her.

[LuckyChi7]

You want to talk about a dysfunctional relationship done right its this one right here with Zuko's mother in the comics. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If anyone hasn't read The Search then do yourselves a favor in doing so because that finally answers the question as where she's been. 

 

 

Anyway the point of the matter Sakura as a character should've been something like this  even with The Gaiden storyline at that, but sad to say honestly. 

[jak123]

 

Yeah, and it wasn't handled well in that end either by making her unable to move on from Sasuke's abusive nature towards her.

And then we see the terrible negelect that he puts on her as a result in their marriage. Worst End Couple Ever.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Yes, that's right. In my head canon and in my fics, Naruto really gets absorbed by the Hyuuga clan. Because he always wanted a family to belong to, because Hinata is still under the sway of her family, and because her family is so deeply village/clan oriented that they would obviously use the fact that their son-in-law is Kage to their advantage. 

 

It's interesting that they didn't go that way though, instead with Hinata leaving everything behind (her career, her skills, her clan position and identity) to go play dutiful housewife to Naruto. Really takes her just another notch down.

 

@James - it's beautiful, isn't it? Kirabook, Chatte and Pumyteh really did a great job bringing it all together. Hopefully they'll do another one!!

Who's to say that's not already the main/only reason why the Hyuga Clan let Hinatatas leave to be with Naruto WITHOUT giving her the Caged Bird Seal? (Aside from not wanting to dirty up that "perfect" face, and hypocrisy.); that they hoped it would gain the Hyuga Clan personal favor with Boruto's dad, looking like they were "changing", and thus get preferential treatment?
 

 

Whenever I see posts about the Naruto fandom here in America and what they love/hate about Sakura...it is always the same. "She was very mean to Naruto." So Sasuke can attempt to murder Sakura on several occasions and he is well liked, but if Sakura is slightly mean to Naruto she is blasted and hated. I even asked why Hinata is so well liked or why they like her and it is because" She was always nice and there for Naruto." I asked to specify and all they can bring up is the Pein arc. When I press them about not being there when Naruto was sad on the swing or when Naruto was alone and jsut wanted a friend and Hinata did nothing...they always tell me "Well, she was shy so she has an excuse."

As soon as I start to prove how wrong they are, but showing how poorly Hinata is and how she was never really there for Naruto outside of rare occurrences...they blast me and say "You're just a salty pairing fan" or they say "You take this way too seriously." This what they always do when they start to lsoe...they go for personal insults.

"Remember the time Naruto was dying and HInata was there trying to keep him alive with her medical ninjutsu....oh wait, that was Sakura."
"Remember the time Naruto jumped in to save Hinata from Gaara proclaiming that he loved her...oh wait, that was Sakura."
"Remember the time Naruto told his own father that Hinata was his girlfriend and he compared her to Kushina...oh wait, that was Sakura."

All they have is the Pein arc confession and apparently this is all the proof they need. They can;t even remember what she did in the War arc. "Naruto was going to die if not for Hinata." Except, Pein was taking him in alive, they would have had days to retrieve him because pulling the kyuubi out is hard process (see Gaara), Naruto almost died from becoming Kurama if not for Minato's quick forsight, and Hinata didn't do anything to "save him." She even says herself that what she was doing was selfish and was only there to confess to him.

It also exposes that they don't give a crap about Naruto's side of things and only care about their fantasy version Hinatatas which, funny enough, is exactly how Hinatatas (still) sees Naruto - just bring up how they NEVER revisit the confession, much less Naruto NEVER reciprocating her feelings, and they'll make up anything they can think of to make it NOT matter that he didn't and that Hinatatas "deserves" him.

[tricksie]

Oh you still writing fanfic that nice...how is that one where for awhile Sakura was kidnapped by Naruto who was an agent of Itachi going?

 

I think I once did a big post about how the hyuuga clan maybe using Naruto, but it because they are unnecessary to the plot now other being hinata's perfect family, and an excuse for Bolt to get power ups. I doubt they will ever even touch anything about the clan curse seal business. Since it will just make Hinata and Bolt look bad.

Yes, still writing it, and several others. In that fic, Naruto's a full-fledged Akatsuki member now. Wish I wrote faster...but it will get done eventually! :)

 

Yes, I would expect nothing less from the Hyuuga than to use Naruto. Or to take advantage of their daughter's infatuation to push their agenda. It's OOC that they don't do that.

 

 

There was a lot of lost potential with that, Tricksie, but I gotta admit, the idea you have there for your fanfiction works so well on so many levels because you would think Hiashi would try to take advantage of the fact Naruto is Hokage to help the clan, given he followed in his father's footsteps, and his father is the one who wanted Hizashi to be sacrificed in Hiashi's place just because he was a member of the Branch Family and not even seeming to care it was his own son.

Yes! Exactly!! They are crazy about that main family. Literally, CRAZY. To kill off a twin, to stifle the powers of the branch children, all so the main family can retain power? Bonkers. So to think they'd have the most powerful nin and future kage marry their princess and not try to twist that to their advantage means that they really weren't this whackado-manipulative-bloodthirsty clan on par with the Uchiha. It's still astonishing to me that they aren't portrayed like that. NH fans conveniently forget that. Makes me wonder if I was even reading the same manga all those years!! 

 

Who's to say that's not already the main/only reason why the Hyuga Clan let Hinatatas leave to be with Naruto WITHOUT giving her the Caged Bird Seal? (Aside from not wanting to dirty up that "perfect" face, and hypocrisy.); that they hoped it would gain the Hyuga Clan personal favor with Boruto's dad, looking like they were "changing", and thus get preferential treatment?
 

 

It also exposes that they don't give a crap about Naruto's side of things and only care about their fantasy version Hinatatas which, funny enough, is exactly how Hinatatas (still) sees Naruto - just bring up how they NEVER revisit the confession, much less Naruto NEVER reciprocating her feelings, and they'll make up anything they can think of to make it NOT matter that he didn't and that Hinatatas "deserves" him.

Oh you are so right - i completely forgot about Hinata and the Caged Bird Seal. If she left her family for naruto, then she most certainly should have had it. It makes no sense for her to not have it. And the kids too. 

 

Yeah, the whole thing is just a platform for Hinata. Naruto got the shaft along with Sakura.

[Phantom_999]

How can anyone dislike Sakura? 

 

There are so many, SO many dislikeable characters in fiction, annoying, clingy, immature girls that act as the Love interest and make me reconsider following a certain series. But Sakura was always different: She is strong, independent and mature. She has flaws and doesn't try to compensate them. She is actually acting like a real human being instead of a doll or Moe - duck brawn, also she is not one of these typical Tsundere - stereotypes of a girl that thinks highly of herself but is actually a frail little thing. I always looked up to Sakura, so I don't understand? Why do people hate her so much?

Please, don't tell me it's because she beats up Naruto. 

 

She DARES TO BEAT UP NARUTO AND NOT BE IN LOVE WITH HIM WHEN NARUTO HAS A SH........................ ITTY childhood. and also she was so annoyingly infatuated with "Sasuke the Bad boy" which is overused cliche. The End.

 

Obviously, if you like someone with a tragic and loenly childhood you are entitled to them

 

I mean seriously, can you explain explain the doubles standards of Sakura to every other tsundere under the sun that is even more volcanic-ally tempered and violent otherwise?

Edited by Phantom_999, 16 June 2018 - 12:34 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yes! Exactly!! They are crazy about that main family. Literally, CRAZY. To kill off a twin, to stifle the powers of the branch children, all so the main family can retain power? Bonkers. So to think they'd have the most powerful nin and future kage marry their princess and not try to twist that to their advantage means that they really weren't this whackado-manipulative-bloodthirsty clan on par with the Uchiha. It's still astonishing to me that they aren't portrayed like that. NH fans conveniently forget that. Makes me wonder if I was even reading the same manga all those years!! 

 

Yeah, and we never learned what exactly led the Hyuga to stray so far from what Hamura hoped they would be in the end. It just shows how the Hyuga clan is just as bad, if not worse, than the Uchiha in some of their things, but the Uchiha got written off to be mad only because they "loved too much", which is just a dumbass reason to be able to get away with their crap, yet the Hyuga doesn't get that kind of ostracized attitude to 'em unlike the Uchiha. Honestly, that's an element I want to explore in my fanfic and explain why that is the case, as well as showing Hiashi REALLY trying to make real change in the clan and to rebuild his relationship with Hinata as well as mentioning why he was hard-assed with her besides her being the older child.

 

 

I mean seriously, can you explain explain the doubles standards of Sakura to every other tsundere under the sun that is eve more volcanic-ally tempered and violent otherwise?

 

You want my best guess, Phantom? It's simple because so many people see Sakura as a threat to Hinata even before she appeared in the series as well as seeing themselves in her and hating her more for it while being basic hypocrites about it. And let's face it, there can be worse tsundere characters out there in anime, like Louise in The Familiar of Zero for one.

[VanitasDS76491]

Whenever I see posts about the Naruto fandom here in America and what they love/hate about Sakura...it is always the same. "She was very mean to Naruto." So Sasuke can attempt to murder Sakura on several occasions and he is well liked, but if Sakura is slightly mean to Naruto she is blasted and hated. I even asked why Hinata is so well liked or why they like her and it is because" She was always nice and there for Naruto." I asked to specify and all they can bring up is the Pein arc. When I press them about not being there when Naruto was sad on the swing or when Naruto was alone and jsut wanted a friend and Hinata did nothing...they always tell me "Well, she was shy so she has an excuse."
As soon as I start to prove how wrong they are, but showing how poorly Hinata is and how she was never really there for Naruto outside of rare occurrences...they blast me and say "You're just a salty pairing fan" or they say "You take this way too seriously." This what they always do when they start to lsoe...they go for personal insults.
"Remember the time Naruto was dying and HInata was there trying to keep him alive with her medical ninjutsu....oh wait, that was Sakura."
"Remember the time Naruto jumped in to save Hinata from Gaara proclaiming that he loved her...oh wait, that was Sakura."
"Remember the time Naruto told his own father that Hinata was his girlfriend and he compared her to Kushina...oh wait, that was Sakura."
All they have is the Pein arc confession and apparently this is all the proof they need. They can;t even remember what she did in the War arc. "Naruto was going to die if not for Hinata." Except, Pein was taking him in alive, they would have had days to retrieve him because pulling the kyuubi out is hard process (see Gaara), Naruto almost died from becoming Kurama if not for Minato's quick forsight, and Hinata didn't do anything to "save him." She even says herself that what she was doing was selfish and was only there to confess to him.

Wouldn't the akatuski have a week at most to take Kurama out of him since at the time it was pain, konan, zetsu, kisame, and obito and with less members it'd take longer to do? And if they are still in the land of river sakura knows the way there and they'd book it. So hinata jumping in was pointless. We take this too seriously ya right and they don't.
  

And then we see the terrible negelect that he puts on her as a result in their marriage. Worst End Couple Ever.

Even watchmojo had sasuke on a worst boyfriends list done by Todd harbkron aka natsu from fairy tail. Though they Also they put the last as number 1 on a top naruto movies list.