31591 replies to this topic

[NeonRanger]

Based on the kind of comments I was reading in the "What if Naruto married Sakura" video, the Naruto fandom is mostly kool-aid drinking cancer at this point. Pathetic and disgusting comments all around. As a result, Boruto is not the series the Naruto fandom needs, but the one it deserves.

I don't understand how Naruto getting with Sakura is some sort of death wish for his character. Edit: I watch the vid, too.

Edited by NeonRanger, 04 September 2017 - 08:16 PM.

[ultranx]

Sorry, very unpopular opinion here, but I don't mind Analyzer being here, in a way.

@Analyzer: I'm not going to lie, you appear very arrogant in some posts. A lot of us spent years with this series, so it's a turn off when you imply that are interpretations were wrong.

[Edit] I also wanted to add that Kishi also admitted to "baiting" us. To where even some NH/SS weren't happy about. So all of the NS moments were genuine. Coming to a pro-NS forum would be somewhat harsh considering what we went through. And by harsh, I mean were are more defensive. NS has brought a lot of joy for us. There were a lot of trolls before you on this forum.
...

At the same time, I feel like some are being a little rude as well. I hate the idea of a "true fan". I've encountered just as many SasuSaku and NaruHina who spent time and a lot of money over a series they love compared to NaruSaku shippers I've also encountered who were damn glad they spent not a dime over this series. I've encountered NH and NS shippers who only read the series for NaruHina or NaruSaku, and those who could give a crap whether they become canon as long as Naruto is getting some lovin'. I've meet SasuSaku and KakaSaku shippers who aren't afraid to admit that they ship the pair because they are aesthetically hot (bad/ mysterious boy and pure girl), and I've meet NaruSaku shippers who only ship NaruSaku because Naruto "deserves the girl" (they see Sakura more as a prize then a genuine character) while calling her a kitten when she continues to love Sasuke. There are people who read the series for their bias, people who read because "what the hell, there nothing else better to do" free time, and people who read just because they want to see Naruto as Hokage and nothing more.

The entire reason the Naruto fandom is known as a toxic, closed-minded community is because this fandom carries this haughty attitude towards others with a different interpretation that they don't like, lumping them into a stupid stereotype while being ignorant to those who don't fit said stereotype.

I've meet NaruSaku shippers who don't mind the ending. In fact, that's one of the reasons why I don't mind Analyzer being here. Are we going to question their credibility as a NaruSaku fan as well?

I don't think she's a troll (or hope not) because I've also meet a NaruHina shipper who is anti-ending and extremely critical with how her ship was portrayed, and she was pretty much shunned by a good amount of the NH fandom. What you guys are doing is no different than what NH is doing. I've already seen posts of us praising NH shippers who hated the ending, now you guys are acting fake towards an NS who finds that the ending makes sense?

A "true fan" is a fan who likes the Naruto series, a fan who respects other's opinions while at the same time doesn't let it take on more value then their own. She's not forcing us to stop shipping NaruSaku. And we also aren't obligated to see her view as "right". You can block. I'm sorry, but if this was a NaruHina who came to the forum to critic how bad the series is and how NaruSaku made more sense, yada yada, we would be happy that they are acknowledging the problems of what's wrong with the series and that they finally see was NaruSaku has been seeing. Yet for some reason, the opposite happens and now you question them as a fan? Is it really hard to to acknowledge a NaruSaku who has critic over the their own ship as well? And seeing that the ending makes sense to them?

I don't even want to pinpoint just NaruSaku, the SasuSaku fandom also have this problem as well with pro/anti Gaiden, and SasuNaruSasu with pro-Naruto/ pro-Sasuke. What's wrong with this fandom with having a different opinion you don't like?

In fact, when I did took a break from Naruto and the fandom, I was happy...then I came back just to answer why I left in the first place. The Naruto fandom has a hard time accepting that people will not like what you like. Unpopular opinion again, but I don't like 470, and I will never like 470. It was anti NaruSaku, and pro SNS. It was the one chapter that made me doubt NaruSaku not because it confirmed Sakura still love Sasuke, but because Kishi confirmed that the POAL means crap unless it's about Sasuke. I, in fact, agree with SNS shippers when they say that this was a wasted, slow burn SNS love story, because it was. But I keep positive and bit my tongue because it really was an unpopular opinion in the NaruSaku community, especially back than with the whole ship war.

I'm sorry but the only opinion I carry was that Kishi wasn't a consistent writer. None of the pairings, NS included, made absolute sense because Kishi wanked the love triangle. NS became less and less credible the farther Kishi got with love triangle, to a point where people jumped ship. The angst Kishi did with SS got to a point where SasuSaku look like kitten individuals. Kishi even made Sasuke and Naruto dead beat daddies as a self insert for his own kids. I understand seeing what we all see in NaruSaku, but it shouldn't be a surprise that Kishi kitten on the pairing way before the ending. For me, the only pairing in the big 5 (SS, NS, SNS, NH, SK) that has any remote credibility is SNS. You guys already saw
Some recent promotions, and well as it being the only pairing Kishi has ever spoken fondly about, like he actually wanted them to hold hands.

I went to a tangent, but just let Analyzer speak. I don't agree with her, but I don't think she's a troll. I just want another perspective. Plus moderators will do something if she crosses the line.

if you reread my comment, which I can tell that "true fan" thing is you commenting on what I said, I meant true fans as in people who loved naruto and read it for the majority of the 15 year run and didn't only stop and come back only for the pairings, fans who cared about the story and characters and series overall and not just pairings, that is what I consider a "true fan". you will notice alot of these pro ender nh and ss fans that aren't the perverted self insert ones are casual fans who stopped keeping track of the series entirely because of fillers and then skipped to the end for their pairings. meanwhile all the actual nh/ss fans that aren't rabid and hate the ending, one of which I am friends with, are not casual and kept up with it the 15 year run. that is what I consider a "true fan" a fan that actually cares about the overall series and not just pairings.

so I am not seeing the problem with what I said at all, unless people are getting offended over a wording AGAIN.

Edited by ultranx, 04 September 2017 - 08:24 PM.

[T XD]

@ NeonRanger :

 

You're right about everything concerning the fandom and that Analyzer has the freedom to speak and say her opinion however she likes.

 

I'm a realistic and equitable person, so before I proceed with what I want to say, have you read all of her posts or at least most of her posts ?

[NeonRanger]

@ ultranx: no, I'm not taking about you. I'm referring to the meaning of a "true fan". The whole " true fan" is fantasy. There is no set "true fan". You are a true fan whether you spend one year into Naruto or fifteen years. You are a true fan whether you are only in it for the pairing or for the plot. You are no longer a true fan if you call the shots and decide for others whether or not they are a true fan. Naruto was meant to appeal to everyone. Sadly, not everyone had a set opinion, in fact I'm shock with how divided opinions are in this fandom. But we are all true fans.

My issue was mostly how other questioning Analyzer as a NaruSaku fan because she has unpopular opinions. I can't judge because she could just be another troll who talks behind our backs again. But I feel it's unfair that you question if she is a true fan because you don't like her opinion.

Like I mention before, we wouldn't be so divided if the story was consistent.

Sorry if you believe I was trying to insult you, I didn't meant that.

Edited by NeonRanger, 04 September 2017 - 08:53 PM.

[NeonRanger]

@ NeonRanger :
 
You're right about everything concerning the fandom and that Analyzer has the freedom to speak and say her opinion however she likes.
 
I'm a realistic and equitable person, so before I proceed with what I want to say, have you read all of her posts or at least most of her posts ?

I read most of her posts, but I disagree with some. But that involves an essay, and I don't want to get into it really. Sorry, I feel like people misunderstood my post. I mean you are absolutely right, people have the freedom to voice an opinion. But my comment was mainly referring to how quickly some disown her as not being a NaruSaku fan for sharing unlikeable opinions.

Like I mention above her comments, before moderators intervene, most of the time seems condescending...I don't like that.

Edited by NeonRanger, 04 September 2017 - 09:11 PM.

[ultranx]

@ ultranx: no, I'm not taking about you. I'm referring to the meaning of a "true fan". The whole " true fan" is fantasy. There is no set "true fan". You are a true fan whether you spend one year into Naruto or fifteen years. You are a true fan whether you are only in it for the pairing or for the plot. You are no longer a true fan if you call the shots and decide for others whether or not they are a true fan. Naruto was meant to appeal to everyone. Sadly, not everyone had a set opinion, in fact I'm shock with how divided opinions are in this fandom. But we are all true fans.

My issue was mostly how other questioning Analyzer as a NaruSaku fan because she has unpopular opinions. I can't judge because she could just be another troll who talks behind our backs again. But I feel it's unfair that you question if she is a true fan because you don't like her opinion.

Like I mention before, we wouldn't be so divided if the story was consistent.

Sorry if you believe I was trying to insult you, I didn't meant that.

I'm really not seeing how someone who only kept track for self inserts or to see who hinata ended up with is as much a true fan as people who actually care about the series,  that's your view on what a "true fan" is, but I don't consider otakus who only support a pairing for their perverted fantasies "true fans" or people who only care about a single character ending up with a main character treating that unrealistic side character like a goddess and disregarding the main character's feelings or any other character, only obsessing over that one  side character. I really don't see how that means that they care about the actual series and not just the character and their fantasies, but whatever floats your boat. last I checked if someone was a "true fan" they would care about the series, not just a single character or perverted fantasies and self inserts.

Edited by ultranx, 04 September 2017 - 09:14 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

 

Each person has their own experiences, but it was certainly not a "Write what I want or fail". As long as you invested in the required work, you could not fail the class. It was brutal, as in, a lot of work was expected, a lot of reading was expected, and a lot of analysis needed. Those who were not willing to invest the time asked, as in any class, would probably fail. 

 

He is intimidating, he's got a strong tough look to him. And he doesn't accept the bare minimum. It's not a class you can breeze through without trying. I would not recommend it for those who can't handle criticism on their writing and feel the need to defend themselves. I would not recommend it for those seeking an easy A. This teacher is for those who want to become writers.

 

And yes, Mark Winegardner will tear through your work. If it is bad, he will say it is, and will say why. His feedback is blunt and honest, and not everyone can handle critiques. You're not taking the workshop in college though just to get an easy A. You're taking it to be a better writer, and in the sixteen classes (Once a week, that's it), you learn a lot. 

 

He is constructive, and will give ideas, but he will not tell you how to write it. He also is very familiar with the actual business, in getting actually published which is extremely useful information, not supplied in any of my actual workshops in such detail. 

 

I learned more in this class than my other Creative Writing classes by a significant margin. He's not an "Elitist Smug" teaching to boast about his work. He's teaching to take you from whatever tier you are, and pushing you to tap into that potential you never saw into tiers beyond. 

 

Having graduated from undergrad and law school, I've had my fair share of these kinds of professors and have found all of them to be blowhards who teach for their own self-glorification. And given some of what you've explained to us here about how well NH was fleshed out in the Naruto manga and how it has zero retcons/plotholes, I think you might wanna get a refund on Mr. Winegardner's course curriculum and instead apply for a good internship somewhere that'll give you actual on-the-job experience as opposed to listening to some elitist nut who will actually give you a failing grade because he doesn't like your story. If J.K Rowling can go from living on the streets to being a billionaire as a result of writing Harry Potter, then one can go a long ways without listening to pompous blowhards like Mark Winegardner.

[NeonRanger]

I'm really not seeing how someone who only kept track for self inserts or to see who hinata ended up with is as much a true fan as people who actually care about the series,  that's your view on what a "true fan is", but I don't consider otakus who only support a pairing for their perverted fantasies "true fans" or people who only care about a single character ending up with a main character treating that unrealistic side character like a goddess and disregarding the main character's feelings or any other character, only obsessing over that one  side character. I really don't see how that means that they care about the actual series and not just the character and their fantasies, but whatever floats your boat

No, I meant that there opinions are weighted just as much as yours, whether you agree or disagree. Whether you like it or not. Like I said, Naruto was meant to appeal everyone, not a particular set of fans. The Naruto Franchise doesn't care whether or not you're a true fan. Unfortunatly we share an opinion that isn't popular with everyone.

Edited by NeonRanger, 04 September 2017 - 09:34 PM.

[Nate River]

I'm more sympathetic to Analyzer's position on the Tsundere. I have no issue with physical comedy generally, but I'm not high on its insertion into either romantic or domestic relationships, especially if the setting is otherwise serious. It doesn't necessarily harm my opinion of the character (as its only one aspect of the whole), unless its pervasive or petty. Inuyasha got cited above...I really disliked that aspect of Kagome's character the longer that series went on. I never understood the humor in Naruto getting decked for Sai calling Sakura a hag. It's such an extreme overreaction (I am aware thats by design) that I just can't laugh and it, unintentionally, make her look bad by suggesting she's overly sensitive about stupid stuff. That's not to say it never works, but most of the time, it's not very funny. It shouldn't taken straight to argue that someone is a domestic abuser, but pointing out its extensive or common use, to me, isn't much a defense.

 

As to the other point, I'm less convinced that others that Sakura would have been more likely to have prevented Naruto from turning into a work-a-holic. I think on the whole, she is more assertive and, thus, more likely, on the whole to reign in his more negative qualities. However, being Hokage was his dream and I think Naruto feels a strong sense of obligation to the village. Him giving himself to the village at the expense of himself and family isn't necessarily hard to believe. That said, it is hard to believe  he would do so for the paperwork when he's always been a people person and man of actions. Would Sakura really try to reign (or been effective) given his strong sense of duty? Would she have felt guilty for doing so? 

 

Additionally, shy individuals can be more assertive when in more private settings. Is Hinata now that she's older? The suggests as much with the "scary mom," but doesn't give much. I think Sakura would have spoken to Boruto in the same way (they won't trash Naruto to the children behind his back.) and gave the same reasons, but would have chewed Naruto in private. Hinata? It's not impossible to believe, but who knows. I think her shy nature means that its even more important to show this because its harder to assume for her.

 

And I think this is really the core problem, Boruto takes its characters for granted and assumed a ton of stuff it cannot or should not. It's so lazy on the details. People presume Hinata didn't stand up for her kids because it wasn't shown. Scary Mom is told to us, not shown to us. Does she always demurely defer to Naruto? Who knows.

 

I think Hinata may be getting short shrift on this, but I have no sympathy for the writers if that's the case. Their approach has left then vulnerable to this complaint. 

 

 

 

Having graduated from undergrad and law school, I've had my fair share of these kinds of professors and have found all of them to be blowhards who teach for their own self-glorification. And given some of what you've explained to us here about how well NH was fleshed out in the Naruto manga and how it has zero retcons/plotholes, I think you might wanna get a refund on Mr. Winegardner's course curriculum and instead apply for a good internship somewhere that'll give you actual on-the-job experience as opposed to listening to some elitist nut who will actually give you a failing grade because he doesn't like your story. If J.K Rowling can go from living on the streets to being a billionaire as a result of writing Harry Potter, then one can go a long ways without listening to pompous blowhards like Mark Winegardner.

 

As a fellow law school graduate, I cannot overstate my cynicism when it comes to law school, (and the bar exam( but that has to do with the chasm of what and how they teach and the actual practice of lawyering. My school often said a good benefit of having a JD was you could hang your shingle out once your graduate. Yeah, only if you want to commit malpractice and be fielding bar complaints within your first 6 months. For all but the top tier in the class, there is almost no opportunity to learn about HOW to be a lawyer before you graduate. Within my first 6 months of practice I had tried 10+ cases to a jury. Did law school team me about cross-examination, witness-prep, how to conduct voir dire without looking incompetent? Nope.  

 

That said, I don't think all (or even most) of my professors were like this, but I did have a few who were probably drunk on their own self-importance. My worst professor was in undergrad though. It was thinly veiled indoctrination disguised as a class. Needless to say, I withdrew within a week. 

[sushi.]

^You actyally made an interesting point there. I don't agree with it but it made me think of something. Since being Hokage was Naruto's dream he obviously won't be a lazyass about it, but I'd much rather see him sacrifice his family for important hokage work(like him trying to find solutions how to protect the village from Boruto's antagonists) rather than papers we as readers know little about. It'd make the situation much more sympathetic, and we'd understand Naruto. This is why Analyzer's assumption that Naruto is *trying* to balance work and family falls empty. It's all a guess and there are many reasons to not believe it. Their family issues were uneeded and put in just because Kishi or whoever is in charge wanted family issues.

[Nate River]

^You actyally made an interesting point there. I don't agree with it but it made me think of something. Since being Hokage was Naruto's dream he obviously won't be a lazyass about it, but I'd much rather see him sacrifice his family for important hokage work(like him trying to find solutions how to protect the village from Boruto's antagonists) rather than papers we as readers know little about. It'd make the situation much more sympathetic, and we'd understand Naruto. This is why Analyzer's assumption that Naruto is *trying* to balance work and family falls empty. It's all a guess and there are many reasons to not believe it. Their family issues were uneeded and put in just because Kishi or whoever is in charge wanted family issues.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. That he is a work-a-holic is not the hard part to believe. The hard part to believe is that he'd do it for paperwork. The author tells and not shows. And they just can't do this. Him trying to balance work/home is reasonable and believable, but they have to show it, not tease it or tell. I think they way they did it mostly makes both him and Boruto look like an ass (and Hinata like a doormat) and it made me hate all involved. 

[Bail o' Lies]

Based on the kind of comments I was reading in the "What if Naruto married Sakura" video, the Naruto fandom is mostly kool-aid drinking cancer at this point. Pathetic and disgusting comments all around. As a result, Boruto is not the series the Naruto fandom needs, but the one it deserves.

Most of the fans that aren't "the ending is perfect" people have left already. It has been three years and nH fanatics have been more then happy to drive non believers out. Sadly true, but it also the fanbase Boruto deserve since they don't pay for anything.

 

Look the guy up on ratemyprofessor. He's a Florida university smug elitist @sshole who basically tells his students how wrong they are about their stories and that they must write them the way he wants them to write them or receive an F. His class appears to consist of a self indulgent writers workshops where you get to learn about how great he is.

 

http://www.ratemypro....jsp?tid=470484

A man known for only making a spin off (which most people never heard of) of other people work has an inflated ego who would have thought?

 

That answers alot.

It sadly does more then it should.

 

Having graduated from undergrad and law school, I've had my fair share of these kinds of professors and have found all of them to be blowhards who teach for their own self-glorification. And given some of what you've explained to us here about how well NH was fleshed out in the Naruto manga and how it has zero retcons/plotholes, I think you might wanna get a refund on Mr. Winegardner's course curriculum and instead apply for a good internship somewhere that'll give you actual on-the-job experience as opposed to listening to some elitist nut who will actually give you a failing grade because he doesn't like your story. If J.K Rowling can go from living on the streets to being a billionaire as a result of writing Harry Potter, then one can go a long ways without listening to pompous blowhards like Mark Winegardner.

Sadly that's why I never doubted that she has been to college. Since she comes off as one of those wide eyed people that believe everything their teacher says without applying any critical thinking. They normally believe that they are always right because they are saying the same thing the professor taught them, which makes them woefully unprepared for handling other viewpoints. Since they can't see why someone especially if that person is intelligent can have a different stance then them, and feel they then need to "educate" the person on what the "correct viewpoint" is.

 

I read most of her posts, but I disagree with some. But that involves an essay, and I don't want to get into it really. Sorry, I feel like people misunderstood my post. I mean you are absolutely right, people have the freedom to voice an opinion. But my comment was mainly referring to how quickly some disown her as not being a NaruSaku fan for sharing unlikable opinions.

Like I mention above her comments, before moderators intervene, most of the time seems condescending...I don't like that.

I noticed how quickly people thought and assumed she was just db come again. Which I did defend against as well as did point out that she is different then and even now. The problem is she really has no stance other then "I'm right because the ending was nH/SS, and I believe I'm better educated then all of you." In a debate/discussion all people are doing is explaining (and defending) their point of view on a subject. Hopefully both sides if the viewpoints are radically different come to an understanding then both agree to disagree. Sadly there is little to be have of that when even one side believe they are entirely right and the other is entirely wrong.

 

^You actyally made an interesting point there. I don't agree with it but it made me think of something. Since being Hokage was Naruto's dream he obviously won't be a lazyass about it, but I'd much rather see him sacrifice his family for important hokage work(like him trying to find solutions how to protect the village from Boruto's antagonists) rather than papers we as readers know little about. It'd make the situation much more sympathetic, and we'd understand Naruto. This is why Analyzer's assumption that Naruto is *trying* to balance work and family falls empty. It's all a guess and there are many reasons to not believe it. Their family issues were uneeded and put in just because Kishi or whoever is in charge wanted family issues.

The problem with that is that the story shown so far is that Naruto is both a terrible parent (since Bolt is the protagonist we are suppose to sympathize with, and be on his side), and at best overwhelm by his role as hokage (through his behavior as well as other things such as how the story and the characters treat him).

[LuckyChi7]

Here is something I just find funny now.. I've been rewatching Gurren Lagann and remember that one scene that I'm not gonna spoil.. You know with Simon remember how long it took him to get over that moment? Almost a while  And in Naruto we have in almost similar situation with Neji's death only he got over it like that you know almost like it really didn't matter.   Not to mention that Naruto and Neji didn't really have any big interactions after Part 1 aside from 614. So the impact kinda fell flat.   With Simon you actually felt the moments, and what was it that finally snapped him out of it:

 

 

 

 

 

That's right Nia did, and it was done brilliantly because he was too busy trying to be somebody he wasn't, and  her speech to Simon about being himself was what made him realize that. Not to mention that in less than 2 episodes (when she first appears and the following episode she deals with one of the generals) has more of a character arc and development then Hinata ever did throughout the entire series of Naruto. Plus as far as I can remember that's only the beginning of the amount of stuff Nia goes through as a character and her relationship with Simon. There's a lot more stuff they go through as the series goes on in comparison to what the canon pairings in Naruto ever dream of.  

[Kagomaru]

Most of the fans that aren't "the ending is perfect" people have left already. It has been three years and nH fanatics have been more then happy to drive non believers out. Sadly true, but it also the fanbase Boruto deserve since they don't pay for anything.

 

A man known for only making a spin off (which most people never heard of) of other people work has an inflated ego who would have thought?

 

It sadly does more then it should.

 

Sadly that's why I never doubted that she has been to college. Since she comes off as one of those wide eyed people that believe everything their teacher says without applying any critical thinking. They normally believe that they are always right because they are saying the same thing the professor taught them, which makes them woefully unprepared for handling other viewpoints. Since they can't see why someone especially if that person is intelligent can have a different stance then them, and feel they then need to "educate" the person on what the "correct viewpoint" is.

 

I noticed how quickly people thought and assumed she was just db come again. Which I did defend against as well as did point out that she is different then and even now. The problem is she really has no stance other then "I'm right because the ending was nH/SS, and I believe I'm better educated then all of you." In a debate/discussion all people are doing is explaining (and defending) their point of view on a subject. Hopefully both sides if the viewpoints are radically different come to an understanding then both agree to disagree. Sadly there is little to be have of that when even one side believe they are entirely right and the other is entirely wrong.

 

The problem with that is that the story shown so far is that Naruto is both a terrible parent (since Bolt is the protagonist we are suppose to sympathize with, and be on his side), and at best overwhelm by his role as hokage (through his behavior as well as other things such as how the story and the characters treat him).

Plus, we have Naruto and Sasuke mentoring each others' children instead of properly raising their own.  That does not send a good message.   Also, the "Scary Mom" Hinata is more SP lip service/filler only because she sure didn't go out of her way to reprimand her son after he tossed her cake on the floor and acted like a belligerent, unrepentant brat during that scene in the movie.  And telling your twelve year old son to protect his father/her husband when that is supposed to be your role?  What person does that? 

 

Sorry, but I have a hard time accepting that Hinata could be a more assertive disciplinarian behind closed doors given what we know about her personality and that she has shown nothing in her scant appearances in Boruto to bolster that claim.

 

As for Naruto's duties as Hokage vs his duty as a husband and father, he would never be an opportunistic lazy ass that would ditch his duties when he had the first chance, but he also wouldn't neglect his family to the point he has in Boruto had he married Sakura. In Boruto, he doesn't make actual efforts in balancing out work and domestic activites, and doesn't really have an interest in doing so. Whereas Sakura's influence would have her helping Naruto keep himself balanced in his responsibilities, especially since she would be more active as a wife and mother compared to Hinata.  

Edited by Kagomaru, 05 September 2017 - 01:01 AM.

[sushi.]

The POV shift is extremely difficult for the people that have been following the series for a long time. It had 15 years and now Naruto is nothing but a plot device.

I haven't seen a lot of people sympathizing with Burrito so I guess their plan didn't work. He comes of as spoiled and aggressive and from his own POV he's portrayed negatively as a character. There's no quality that makes him easy to root for.

[ThroughWithLove]

I'm more sympathetic to Analyzer's position on the Tsundere. I have no issue with physical comedy generally, but I'm not high on its insertion into either romantic or domestic relationships, especially if the setting is otherwise serious. It doesn't necessarily harm my opinion of the character (as its only one aspect of the whole), unless its pervasive or petty. Inuyasha got cited above...I really disliked that aspect of Kagome's character the longer that series went on. I never understood the humor in Naruto getting decked for Sai calling Sakura a hag. It's such an extreme overreaction (I am aware thats by design) that I just can't laugh and it, unintentionally, make her look bad by suggesting she's overly sensitive about stupid stuff. That's not to say it never works, but most of the time, it's not very funny. It shouldn't taken straight to argue that someone is a domestic abuser, but pointing out its extensive or common use, to me, isn't much a defense.

 

In the case of Naruto, Bleach and One Piece, the injuries the Tsundere inflicts always vanish in the very next scene, so I see it as little more than gag humor IMHO. Granted, now that I think about it, there was that one time where Yamato said that Jiraiya nearly died as a result of trying to peak at Tsunade in the bathouse.

 

 

As to the other point, I'm less convinced that others that Sakura would have been more likely to have prevented Naruto from turning into a work-a-holic. I think on the whole, she is more assertive and, thus, more likely, on the whole to reign in his more negative qualities. However, being Hokage was his dream and I think Naruto feels a strong sense of obligation to the village. Him giving himself to the village at the expense of himself and family isn't necessarily hard to believe. That said, it is hard to believe  he would do so for the paperwork when he's always been a people person and man of actions. Would Sakura really try to reign (or been effective) given his strong sense of duty? Would she have felt guilty for doing so? 

 

If the work-a-holic angle were presented from the standpoint of something that's actually believable, I'd probably have a different opinion on the issue. For example, why not have it to where Naruto has become like Batman in the sense that he is not overworked, but completely obsessed with his work? Make it to where he's actively using 100,000 shadowclones to do missions and protect Konoha. Make it to where he's actively trying to make shinobi obsolete by trying to do all of the work himself. That, I could see as being the ingredients for a legitimate conflict with his family. But mere paper work? Meager paper being the reason he doesn't have enough time to show up to his daughter's birthday party? Given all that we know about the character's abilities, that's goes well past my suspension of disbelief. This is a guy who, at the mere age of 15, processed and absorbed years of information in mere hours. And that was without the kyuubi's chakra. And so in that light, I could see Sakura walking up to his office, spelling out the obvious solution and asking him wtf he's doing.

 

As a fellow law school graduate, I cannot overstate my cynicism when it comes to law school, (and the bar exam( but that has to do with the chasm of what and how they teach and the actual practice of lawyering. My school often said a good benefit of having a JD was you could hang your shingle out once your graduate. Yeah, only if you want to commit malpractice and be fielding bar complaints within your first 6 months. For all but the top tier in the class, there is almost no opportunity to learn about HOW to be a lawyer before you graduate. Within my first 6 months of practice I had tried 10+ cases to a jury. Did law school team me about cross-examination, witness-prep, how to conduct voir dire without looking incompetent? Nope.  

 

That said, I don't think all (or even most) of my professors were like this, but I did have a few who were probably drunk on their own self-importance. My worst professor was in undergrad though. It was thinly veiled indoctrination disguised as a class. Needless to say, I withdrew within a week. 

 

 

This. This x 1000!  They didn't even teach me how to do an arraignment! I ended up hearing someone do it and jotting down the right words on a legal pad minutes before the judge reached my case on the docket before having to recite it myself. There is SO MUCH to learn beyond what you can find in statutes, cases (many of which you won't be able to read or know about without having an overly expensive subscription to westlaw or lexis nexis) or even handbooks that hanging up your own shingle immediately after law school is almost suicide. Even basic yet crucial skills like negotiating with the DA are nowhere to be found in law school (which they happily exploit each time they encounter the latest crop of newly admitted solo attorneys). And I wasn't able to make into the top tier upon graduation, but fortunately work alongside a family friend who has been practicing for 34 years. How it should work is that you do the standard Crim Law, Torts, Contracts, Real Property and Civil Procedure during your first semester, do Evidence Constitutional Law, Legal Research and Legal writing in the second semester and then spend the remaining two years doing nothing but internships/externships the school forcibly enrolls you in. And given how many court appointed cases get handed out in criminal court every day, I refuse to believe any school out there would have difficulty in insuring that their students had relevant and applicable hands on experience prior to graduating.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 04 September 2017 - 11:17 PM.

[The Doctor forever]

A man known for only making a spin off (which most people never heard of) of other people work has an inflated ego who would have thought?

 

I know I never heard of it and that's the thing its easy to do a spin off as he does not have to do world building, now I have no idea if they guy is realted to the man who did the Godfather or that, but still...

 

Its why I love Tolkien's mythical world or Middle Earth which Evil100 got me into and I just love that world its why Tolkien is known as the creator or father of making a good world of fantasy.

 

Now I am not saying the dude is a bad guy I bet he is a nice person but making a spin off is in now way as good as making something that you did all on your own its why Tolkien, C.S Lewis, J.K Rowling and George R.R Martin all made their very own worlds.

[T XD]

I read most of her posts, but I disagree with some. But that involves an essay, and I don't want to get into it really. Sorry, I feel like people misunderstood my post. I mean you are absolutely right, people have the freedom to voice an opinion. But my comment was mainly referring to how quickly some disown her as not being a NaruSaku fan for sharing unlikeable opinions.

Like I mentiona above her comments, before moderators intervene, most of the time seems condescending...I don't like that.

As I said, she has the freedom to speak and say her opinion whenever she wants. I was serious at first with her, but with time, I've let it be and stopped being serious. I have no ill will. I would like to speak from what I've observed from her side.

I debated and discussed with her shortly after she came to H&E. I also have read her posts. I know, I guess all of us frequents here too, since quite a while what she thinks of the manga in all of its aspects and characters. I also got to the very big possibility that no matter what one says, she's still like on some kind of mission to correct us.

Since her day 1 here, we've been reading the same posts again and again till this day. We've debated her again and again on these same posts. We've tried to tell her that it's your opinion on the matter and not a fact. Whenever someone questions her, we've been reading the all famous " I want to correct misstated facts " where we tell her that it's your view on the matter. We've been replying to her and not ignoring her. We've been giving her chances to get us facts from the manga on what she's arguing about.

She's very well speaking her opinion whenever she wants and all the time. There are numerous times where she isn't stating an opinion from her side though. It's " Correction ", " You've read it wrong ", " That's not how it is, that's how it is " with other terms and sentences along these ones. I don't know if she's aware of it, she has her own view and that her view how things really went.

We can ignore her when she replies, but most of us are not ignoring her. Some are getting tired of it, so it's normal to see some bickering from time to time.

Another point aside from the Naruto fandom part :
 

[Edit] I also wanted to add that Kishi also admitted to "baiting" us. To where even some NH/SS weren't happy about. So all of the NS moments were genuine.

I'm sorry but the only opinion I carry was that Kishi wasn't a consistent writer. None of the pairings, NS included, made absolute sense because Kishi wanked the love triangle. NS became less and less credible the farther Kishi got with love triangle, to a point where people jumped ship. The angst Kishi did with SS got to a point where SasuSaku look like kitten individuals. Kishi even made Sasuke and Naruto dead beat daddies as a self insert for his own kids. I understand seeing what we all see in NaruSaku, but it shouldn't be a surprise that Kishi kitten on the pairing way before the ending. For me, the only pairing in the big 5 (SS, NS, SNS, NH, SK) that has any remote credibility is SNS. You guys already saw
Some recent promotions, and well as it being the only pairing Kishi has ever spoken fondly about, like he actually wanted them to hold hands.

The bold parts are what we always say when we talk about pairings. We said these lots of times, but same thing occurred where misstated facts operations will be done again and again.

It's not about statement of opinion as we're seeing. It's more about attitude. There will be bickering cause not everyone will be patient ( I tease her because I can't help but tease ) and not everyone is the same as the other. She may be aware of her attitude or not, maybe she can't help it or can; which we should still be respectable towards one another.

That's how things are going for now.

Edited by T XD, 04 September 2017 - 11:10 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Here is something I just find funny now.. I've been rewatching Gurren Lagann and remember that one scene that I'm not gonna spoil.. You know with Simon remember how long it took him to get over that moment? Almost a while  And in Naruto we have in almost similar situation with Neji's death only he got over it like that you know almost like it really didn't matter.   Not to mention that Naruto and Neji didn't really have any big interactions after Part 1 aside from 614. So the impact kinda fell flat.   With Simon you actually felt the moments, and what was it that finally snapped him out of it:

 

 

 

 

 

That's right Nia did, and it was done brilliantly because he was too busy trying to be somebody he wasn't, and  her speech to Simon about being himself was what made him realize that. Not to mention that in less than 2 episodes (when she first appears and the following episode she deals with one of the generals) has more of a character arc and development then Hinata ever did throughout the entire series of Naruto. Plus as far as I can remember that's only the beginning of the amount of stuff Nia goes through as a character and her relationship with Simon. There's a lot more stuff they go through as the series goes on in comparison to what the canon pairings in Naruto ever dream of.  

 

Nice mention, Chi :) Even for someone who hasn't seen Gurren Lagann, I had a feeling you might bring something like this up. It was also like that somewhat in Naruto when Jiraiya died, but  I would have liked if Sakura had been there for him. Wish it also happened with Shikamaru 'cause in a lot of ways, he tried too hard to be someone that he wasn't when Asuma died (which I always assumed due to his feeling "guilty" for not being able to figure out Hidan's abilities even if he COULDN'T).

 

But yeah, Nia is way better in development than Hinata.

[rocci]

There's so many law student here.

@neon ranger
With or without poal naruto will still sav sasuke. And I don't see how it demise the importance of poal. After all sasuke is the object while sakura is the subject.

I agree about narusasu. It happen because they're the focus for the entirerity of part 2. It become their streght and also their weakness.

I agree that there's no such thing like true fan.


Tsundere is hate and love because many thing.