Hinata shows a solid example, really, making a gift from the heart to give along with a speech that declares her intentions, the desire to start a romantic relationship.
Do you think that this is pursuing?
Granted, she is too shy in front of Naruto to do much more, but even the movie is telling us with the whole fangirl and his mothers' scarf thing: A gift is simply not enough, it means nothing as it is.
And Hinata 'offers' him nothing more on an emotional level (beside flashbacks), during the whole movie.
Her 'speech' has similar problems.
Firstly, it is involuntarily triggered and secondly, brings Naruto no new message he wouldn't have got during the Pain arc.
I'll get back later to this.
Naruto does not do this, any examples are shown comically, so we can't take his attempts seriously. The closest is "How can I?", but it's not an attempt to pursue,nor an intent that he will pursue after Sasuke is saved. Also Sakura's request to go with Sasuke at 699 is another sort of example, which is why she is blushy and nervous, and people say "She's regressed!" when in actuality, she's making a serious romantic question here, which, seems to have that cultural response, whether I like that exact portrayal or not.
Yes, there is this 'dating', 'pervert', .. . running-gag.
But it doesn't change the actions' intentions, nor the pretext, nor the fact that all the other scenes are emotionally powerful ones.
Think back to Hinata. Her love was completely a running gag of blushing and fainting, except of after the chuunin exams (which even had no 'romantic' pretext) and her throwing her life in danger two times. But that's it.
She also never pursued something - only at the end, where the pairings were set, she promised herself to stand beside him.
I think you don't combine everything with the fact how the story progressed and what happened, what even made the comical scenes get less and vanish.
It has a reason why he never gets to pursue and tell her: Everything that was happening with Akatsuki, Madara and so on. Literally everything that happened between him and Sakura, and Sakura and Sasuke.
He would have confessed more seriously, if there would have been a fitting situation after everything was cleared.
But we all know what happened afterwards.
Kishi chose his love to be unrequited - do you think he could have pursued her in this situation with what was happening and happened? Telling her after the fake confession scene and what happened during and after the war?
Naruto is not blind, nor is he an idiot. If it is important, he WILL shut his mouth.
I never talked about Sakura, but:
The thing is how she acts. The critic stems mostly from the fact, that the SS love is not believable and that she again doesn't care about any other person, not even Sasuke.
But I shouldn't talk. If I would have had to make the SS scene in this situation, I would have done it the exact same way. It's just the motive of SS, as stupid as it is for me personally.
Minor Aside, just for fun, I feel like Naruto should confess in hypothetical NS situation. It would dispel the notions that its just a joke/not a serious affection in that sort of employ from Naruto's side.
It's complicated. It would be dependent on the course you take.
Plus I still can't understand that 'not serious' thing. Did anyone honestly think that before the movie came out?
There are so many NS scenes that always showed us, that it is quite 'serious'.
Starting from chapter 3, over the gaara fight, hospital scene and promise, to the talk with Sai, the fake confession scene and the war. There is simply no other really logical interpretation.
It's believable that Naruto doesn't understand romantic love, from not having parents or a serious mentor in that aspect. He is damaged in a sense, though not so much as Sasuke. It's the best employed idea the Team had, particularly with the timetable they were forced to work with (2 years later). I also don't think Naruto really had time to process it immediately after, then chain of events kept flowing. In an American interpretation, Naruto would have answered earlier, I will say, and this may be an entirely cultural difference of story-telling, considering the audience and genre as well. Could they have done a better reasoning? Maybe, but honestly, with what Kishimoto gave them to work with from his conservatism, I'm hard pressed to find a working reason that you can execute better.
Again, that he doesn't understand romantic love is not believable. You don't simply 'learn' love. Every person has a different view of love, a bit dependent on education, but that's all.
He bonded instantly with Sasuke, before making any friends, why can he show sympathy and understanding here so easily?
In the first mission he understands Haku's love like no one else - it is not romantic love, but still love. The whole story afterwards is partly about the importance of any kind of bonds and how well Naruto understands that.
In every situation confronted with romantic love between two other persons, he understands it. You can say it was a crush, but he loved Sakura.
We have not a single reason to doubt his understanding of romantic love.
Of course you can execute it better - just pick up from after the war and slowy build up on what's already there - without throwing it out of the window to start new and making him a romantic retard.
It's not hours, by the way, days certainly pass. I also don't think the speed of it is unnatural, if he is falling in unrealized love, it's a sort of catch up of lost time, you could say.
It was an exaggeration from my part and I understand the motive they used, but again, I think it's ridiculous. How he seemingly 'falls' in love and the timing.
The Manga really tells the difference of SS/NS/NH, granted SS's love starts shallow, indisputably, along with NS's. NS has this growing bond mind, but it is ultimately, frustratingly to us, even, friendship, as tackled in the late 400s. Sakura's love for Sasuke, which is the important part here, as they aren't a couple at this time, is true in the sense she loves him and his flaws, and even when he hurts her with his actions, she still loves him. This frustarted some of us in 693 and 699, that enduring love, but that's what is being discussed here. Hinata's is similiar, a love for all of a being, flaws and all.
I know what you mean and I never claimed something different. But let's take a better look:
There are two important differences between NS/NH/SS:
1. How the loving person acts:
Sakura is extremely pushy and non-considerate. Although she has a small inkling, she doesn't want to understand Sasuke and doesn't really accept his flaws. She simply tolerates them, because she 'loves' him, and would even do the most irrational things to be with him.
Naruto at first is similarly pushy. But pretty fast develops into something where he takes consideration for her feelings. He understands her, admires her physical and emotional strength and becomes selfless.
Hinata is pretty shy and needs encouragement or a special occasion.
She admires him, understands his determination and flaws and is selfless (except for later parts). Naruto is her role model.
2. How the beloved person acts:
Sasuke doesn't care. He of course knows that she has a crush on him, but that's all. He gets to respect her as a Teammate, but everything that ever 'happens' between the two is solely in Sakura's imagination. Somehow he is reciprocating after the war.
Sakura has before the time skip only eyes for Sasuke and ignores Naruto. But she comes to respect Naruto and believe in him. After the time skip for a long time everything is pretty vague and they bond even more. Sadly, there is never a next step and at some point everything is going down the drain.
Naruto thinks at first that she is weird, but then she becomes a friend and comrade. Near the end he is confronted several times with her love. He realizes who always loved him.
There is a pattern here, which makes SS so completely unlikeable in the opinion of many. There are pretty alarming differences compared to NH and NS (, and especially to NS).
Another important difference is how Sakura started to love Sasuke. It is totally shallow for the most popular kid only after she came out of her shell thanks to Ino, which also triggers the giving up of that friendship. It really can't start worse. But the important thing here is, that we never got any indication that this type of shallow, obsessed love changed into something real, which it is used as later.
But before I digress any more I stop, I think I don't have to elaborate why NS works so much better than NH or SS.
It's this difference in love that doesn't create a "move on" during the talk, but an understanding that there was really no NS, as bewildering as that may be. It's not what we want, but it is a working execution. I won't touch Sakura's selfishness here, agree to disagree here, but Hinata's? She chose her sister over immediately having Naruto to try to stop Toneri ? I just don't see the selfishness here.
Again, I understand that they want to eradicate NS. The problem just is: It makes no sense at all regarding what has happened (The reasoning even doesn't work - why should he have 'loved' Sakura because of his rivalry with Sasuke? Utterly, completely stupid.) and even if you accept that, it makes look Naruto like an idiot and kitten. Just think back at the fake confession scene.
Therefore it is not really a working execution.
I was not necessarily referring to the movie, but: Why did she held that speech to Naruto in that situation?
She is selfish and wants to get things out of her system, not thinking about how it will trouble Naruto.
Of course she will go to save her sister, anything else would be really..., Wow.
But it's in this situation not really Hinata's fault, just stupid generic love movie plot forcing the characters together fast.
Finally, the negative things in the pairings, are more so a negative aspect of the family, about the sacrifices made due to each father's situation.Even with an NS end mind, there would be similiar in the author's hands. I don't think however, to any extent is Naruto or Sakura miserable with that difficulty, it's difficult we can say, but it's not depressing them.
I don't said it's depressing them, but they clearly have troubles. Troubles that in this way wouldn't have been there with a NS ending.
You are right, they would have probably included similar things with a NS ending.
But the fact is that NS would have had much less attack surface to establish such things. It would generally be a less problematic relationship, they would have had to probably include an outside influence to trigger similar drama.
I'm defending NH/SS way more than I want to. Maybe Next I'll put out differences that could have been done to make NS work really well. I actually honestly think an American that handled Naruto would have gone with NS very likely, or possibly NH and never even promoted NS from the start. I don't know, I just -think- that's how our culture would have taken the story, and maybe that's part of the frustration? Not a 100% behind it, just a thought.
I am not American and grew up with Central Asian culture. I would say it is pretty much the middle thing between Japanese and Western culture in terms of romance.
And I can tell you that probably no one with a similar cultural mindset would have taken the current route with the setup we had.
It would either be NS or NS or NS or , much less probably, a bittersweet route with a clearly crushed Naruto who later accepts Hinata and finds happiness slowly with her. In that case Sakura would probably suffer, if the author is sadistic^^
But I don't think it is a solely cultural thing. There are certain topics and motives that are universally likeable or unlikeable.
Edited by Aevrum, 19 July 2017 - 04:33 PM.
---> Well Deserved ! 
