31591 replies to this topic

[Bail o' Lies]

 

Wait they put kari and tk and tai and sora in the bad pairings list? I don't think goku and chichi are that bad.

Apparently people that are like ten years older me have never forgiven digimon for those two never getting together, I can't even remember most of their interactions now a days let alone if any were romantic. As for Goku and Chi chi a lot of people always thought she was a kitten who didn't deserve goku and goku should have ended up with bulma or launch or something. Despite Bulma being that same personality traits as chi chi they hate if not worse.

[VanitasDS76491]

Wait they put kari and tk and tai and sora in the bad pairings list? I don't think goku and chichi are that bad.

 
No it was all the end pairings of season 2 of Digimon but Kari and t.k and tai and Sora were the ones mentioned. It's Goku is the awful one in their relationship with chichi.
 

Apparently people that are like ten years older me have never forgiven digimon for those two never getting together, I can't even remember most of their interactions now a days let alone if any were romantic. As for Goku and Chi chi a lot of people always thought she was a kitten who didn't deserve goku and goku should have ended up with bulma or launch or something. Despite Bulma being that same personality traits as chi chi they hate if not worse.

Bulma is a better character than chichi and is responsible for goku and chichi meeting. Goku was the one they critsize in the video.

[Shadow1275]

The thing about Uchihas and genocide is that not all Uchihas had the sharingan. So did the ones with unactivated powers turn corrupt? Was it a small minority of sharingan user in a larger crowd of normal Uchiha civilians? Or was it that most of them were sharingan users? We don't know - the manga doesn't tell us. Either way, wiping out the entire clan is still genocide. But if it's a primarily civilian clan with less than 10 percent using this insane superpower, then the massacre is especially cruel. It's a killing of innocents and villagers, not strictly military targets.

 

But indiscriminate killings were quite frequent early on (when the manga was still a little edgier) with the Blood mist stuff, Hanzo who killed off family members, and the example of the Whirpool village which was wiped out completely. Later in the manga, it was not so tied to actual history and brutal. So tend to think the Uchihas were not completely bad, no more than any of the other villages/clans that got wiped out. They just had some extreme power that was feared and desired.

 

As for that crap about Uchihas loving too much? I think that was just b.s. put in at the end of the story to make people feel sorry for the Uchihas. There's no point to it and it doesn't justify anything to come except as a ploy to make readers accept Obito and cleanse Itachi of his sins. It doesn't make people feel sympathetic for Sasuke, because he is never changed into a sympathetic character. It's a stupid, cheap ploy stuck in the plot. And it doesn't justify the genocide, because we know not all clan members had an activated sharingan, so not all clan members were a threat. Innocents were most certainly killed. And this plot twist doesn't excuse that. 

The Sharingan power fear theory lines right up with Haku's Kekkei Genkai story too. That was introduced in the land of waves, his father killed his mother bc she carried the gene if I remember correctly.

 

I buy the whole Uchiha Love wankering, it makes sense considering the only way to Awaken Mangekyo was stated in Part 1 to "Kill Your best friend." Love makes you stronger? Fine that makes sense. Even fits with Sasuke and how he was so strong bc all he cared about was avenging his clan. Though imo he really just cared about Itachi. He loved Itachi as only a brother can, and Itachi manipulated and tortured him. Hate isnt the opposite of love. I'll buy it Kishi.

 

But the whole, "Uchiha's love more than everybody else???" kitten. Part 1 Naruto was more loving than ALL OF THE UCHIHAS COMBINED. If Kishi wanted to exonerate Itachi more in the readers eyes he should have showed the Power Hungriness of the Uchiha and how their desire to protect and secure their clan's power was corrupting them. That's a solid angle that worked with Sasuke in Part 1 and one that ppl can buy. THEN you can have Naruto break this cycle by rebelling and instituting a better system. And it plays into the original idea: Naruto (Hard Work) vs. Sasuke (Handed Everything)

 

And there's no way anyone forgives Obito, especially after Pain SACRIFICED HIMSELF TO RESSURRECT AN ENTIRE VILLAGE TO ATONE FOR HIS SINS. Logically men don't destroy worlds when their loved ones die, they're more likely to destroy themselves.

 

The only way you "Justify" the Genocide is by admitting that the "Leaders"/System is BAD. Instead he tried to sweep it under the table as "Necessary Casualties that must be endured for the status quo"

 

 

Necessary casualties, and didnt his father, the LEADER of the coup, Say he was proud of him? 

 

And going back to that Haku Massacre thing, how is one Massacre Horrible and used for an example of how Shinobi are ppl and yet the Uchiha Massacre is somehow Acceptable?????    

Edited by Shadow1275, 30 May 2017 - 11:34 AM.

[Shadow1275]

well i can see why he didn't include NH in the video even if he wasn't fond of it, there probably would be a backlash. Not to mention, NH is just your typical boring shounen couple, there's really nothing to say about it :/

 

 

I was surprised at how much hate SS was receiving in the comment section. Definitely made my day, more so than the video itself.

Perhaps there is hope for this World yet........

 

On the other hand NH never really liked SuckuSucku, they only teamed up bc they didnt conflict with each other and there was another certain couple that scared the Bejesus out of both. Now that they're both canon they tend to go at each others throats more often then not

[rocci]

Yup nh need ss to be canon in order for them to stand a chance since they need to remove sakura from the picture.
I think they will be much more happy if sakura is dead.

[VanitasDS76491]

The Sharingan power fear theory lines right up with Haku's Kekkei Genkai story too. That was introduced in the land of waves, his father killed his mother bc she carried the gene if I remember correctly.
 
I buy the whole Uchiha Love wankering, it makes sense considering the only way to Awaken Mangekyo was stated in Part 1 to "Kill Your best friend." Love makes you stronger? Fine that makes sense. Even fits with Sasuke and how he was so strong bc all he cared about was avenging his clan. Though imo he really just cared about Itachi. He loved Itachi as only a brother can, and Itachi manipulated and tortured him. Hate isnt the opposite of love. I'll buy it Kishi.
 
But the whole, "Uchiha's love more than everybody else???" kitten. Part 1 Naruto was more loving than ALL OF THE UCHIHAS COMBINED. If Kishi wanted to exonerate Itachi more in the readers eyes he should have showed the Power Hungriness of the Uchiha and how their desire to protect and secure their clan's power was corrupting them. That's a solid angle that worked with Sasuke in Part 1 and one that ppl can buy. THEN you can have Naruto break this cycle by rebelling and instituting a better system. And it plays into the original idea: Naruto (Hard Work) vs. Sasuke (Handed Everything)
 
And there's no way anyone forgives Obito, especially after Pain SACRIFICED HIMSELF TO RESSURRECT AN ENTIRE VILLAGE TO ATONE FOR HIS SINS. Logically men don't destroy worlds when their loved ones die, they're more likely to destroy themselves.
 
The only way you "Justify" the Genocide is by admitting that the "Leaders"/System is BAD. Instead he tried to sweep it under the table as "Necessary Casualties that must be endured for the status quo"
 


 
Necessary casualties, and didnt his father, the LEADER of the coup, Say he was proud of him? 
 
And going back to that Haku Massacre thing, how is one Massacre Horrible and used for an example of how Shinobi are ppl and yet the Uchiha Massacre is somehow Acceptable?????    

I'm actually curious what would happen if the coup did happen and they overtook the village, how many innocent people would die, then killing the whole clan save mikoto would be the whole needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Cause the Uchiha leading this like the age of apocalypse combined with days of Future Past and the empire from epiosde 4-6 of star wars.

[BlueStarSaber]

Honestly when it comes to the Uchiha Massacre I find Kohona and Danzo to be in the wrong, given how they were accused of the nine tailed fox attack with no evidence that it was a member of the clan from inside the Village at the time and the Uchiha only decided to rebel against Village when they were placed in the outskirts of the village and being kept an eye one with suspicion and miss trust to similar prejudice during the Second Hokage's era. Plus Orochimaru even calls out kohona & Tobirama on their mistreatment of the clan and as far as we know the only rouge ninja that came from the Uchiha Clan until Obito, Itachi and Sasuke came along was Madara, so there shouldn't be really any doubt that the clan was loyal to the village despite how tobirama mistreated them during the time the nine tailed fox attack happened.

Edited by BlueStarSaber, 30 May 2017 - 05:46 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

Wait they put kari and tk and tai and sora in the bad pairings list? I don't think goku and chichi are that bad.

 

 

Apparently people that are like ten years older me have never forgiven digimon for those two never getting together, I can't even remember most of their interactions now a days let alone if any were romantic. As for Goku and Chi chi a lot of people always thought she was a kitten who didn't deserve goku and goku should have ended up with bulma or launch or something. Despite Bulma being that same personality traits as chi chi they hate if not worse.

It's not much due to any specific pairings done (though Yamato / Matt and Sora, like NH, came from nowhere, with no development, while the two had barely interacted over the course of two seasons. Even their Japanese VAs were confused towards it happening), but rather the fact that it seemed like EVERYONE just HAD to be married and have kids of their own for no real rhyme or reason. Heck, we don't even see ANY spouse for any of them outside of Yamato / Matt and Sora, and Ken and Yolei, and that's obviously because they're already part of the same group.
 

 

Honestly when it comes to the Uchiha Massacre I find Kohona and Danzo to be in the wrong, given how they were accused of the nine tailed fox attack with no evidence that it was a member of the clan from inside the Village at the time and the Uchiha only decided to rebel against Village when they were placed in the outskirts of the village and being kept an eye one with suspicion and miss trust to similar prejudice during the Second Hokage's era. Plus Orochimaru even calls out kohona & Tobirama on their mistreatment of the clan and as far as we know the only rouge ninja that came from the Uchiha Clan until Obito, Itachi and Sasuke came along was Madara, so there shouldn't be really any doubt that the clan was loyal to the village despite how tobirama mistreated them during the time the nine tailed fox attack happened.

Again, not to sound like I'm saying Konoha is innocent at all, but can you really blame Konoha's higher-ups for being suspicious considering, outside of Hashirama and his abilities, the only ones who have been demonstrated to be able to (externally) control a Biju to any degree is someone with the Sharingan (and Danzo didn't get his until after the massacre)? That and, as I said before, it was discovered that there was still a chunk of the clan who still followed Madara's beliefs, so if you put those two together, the caution was understandable. And ones like Fugaku were not helping themselves by plotting a coup and rebuffing any and all negotiations. All that did was give the idea of justification needed to order the massacre, and let's also not forget that the entire Uchiha Clan, outside of Itachi caring for a baby Sasuke, was nowhere to be seen the night Kurama was made to attack the village, not even a random Uchiha among the ones following Hiruzen and facing down Kurama. Three very big points that would be foolish to ignore - Sharingan, Madara followers, and the clan disappearing when it was needed the most.

By the time we get that talk from the Edo Hokages, the story was already heavily trying to make the Uchiha Clan (and Sasuke in particular) look mostly innocent outside of certain individuals even though the story had already shown otherwise.

Also,it was Homura, Koharu, and Danzo who were responsible for the heavy-handedness against the Uchiha. Tobirama was actually quite generous towards the Uchiha (making them Konoha's police, despite ulterior motives in keeping an eye on them, was still giving them A LOT of power within Konoha) considering his dislike of them from the Clan Wars. After Hashirama's death, Tobirama could have probably easily have had the Uchiha Clan eliminated himself if he chose, but he didn't. He was keeping his own personal emotions in check and was putting more attention on Konoha as a whole - a balancing act.

[rocci]

I'm actually curious what would happen if the coup did happen and they overtook the village, how many innocent people would die, then killing the whole clan save mikoto would be the whole needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Cause the Uchiha leading this like the age of apocalypse combined with days of Future Past and the empire from epiosde 4-6 of star wars.

They would not took over the village. It's a losing battle for uchiha. Just because they have magic eye ball doesn't they will suddenly that strong to took over an entire village. It only took them one to two guy to massacre them.

It already 7 years after Kyubi attack, konoha military might must be recover.

[VanitasDS76491]

It's not much due to any specific pairings done (though Yamato / Matt and Sora, like NH, came from nowhere, with no development, while the two had barely interacted over the course of two seasons. Even their Japanese VAs were confused towards it happening), but rather the fact that it seemed like EVERYONE just HAD to be married and have kids of their own for no real rhyme or reason. Heck, we don't even see ANY spouse for any of them outside of Yamato / Matt and Sora, and Ken and Yolei, and that's obviously because they're already part of the same group.
 
 


Again, not to sound like I'm saying Konoha is innocent at all, but can you really blame Konoha's higher-ups for being suspicious considering, outside of Hashirama and his abilities, the only ones who have been demonstrated to be able to (externally) control a Biju to any degree is someone with the Sharingan (and Danzo didn't get his until after the massacre)? That and, as I said before, it was discovered that there was still a chunk of the clan who still followed Madara's beliefs, so if you put those two together, the caution was understandable. And ones like Fugaku were not helping themselves by plotting a coup and rebuffing any and all negotiations. All that did was give the idea of justification needed to order the massacre, and let's also not forget that the entire Uchiha Clan, outside of Itachi caring for a baby Sasuke, was nowhere to be seen the night Kurama was made to attack the village, not even a random Uchiha among the ones following Hiruzen and facing down Kurama. Three very big points that would be foolish to ignore - Sharingan, Madara followers, and the clan disappearing when it was needed the most.
By the time we get that talk from the Edo Hokages, the story was already heavily trying to make the Uchiha Clan (and Sasuke in particular) look mostly innocent outside of certain individuals even though the story had already shown otherwise.
Also,it was Homura, Koharu, and Danzo who were responsible for the heavy-handedness against the Uchiha. Tobirama was actually quite generous towards the Uchiha (making them Konoha's police, despite ulterior motives in keeping an eye on them, was still giving them A LOT of power within Konoha) considering his dislike of them from the Clan Wars. After Hashirama's death, Tobirama could have probably easily have had the Uchiha Clan eliminated himself if he chose, but he didn't. He was keeping his own personal emotions in check and was putting more attention on Konoha as a whole - a balancing act.

Can we agreed neither side was right and like batman v superman it's dumb motives.
  

They would not took over the village. It's a losing battle for uchiha. Just because they have magic eye ball doesn't they will suddenly that strong to took over an entire village. It only took them one to two guy to massacre them.
It already 7 years after Kyubi attack, konoha military might must be recover.

I'm asking what if the Uchiha won in the coup. They'd probably rule the whole world causing rebellion just like star wars cause everything in naruto was ripped from star wars.

[rocci]

@vanitas
No, they will not rule the world because they would be outnumber and outgun and while sharingan can enslave biju doesn't mean every single uchiha capable to do what obito and madara did simply because one is buff by hashi juice while the other is simply a gift one.

If they win then there would be a resistance anti uchiha from konoha. But not from the world simply because uchiha is not that strong.

Anyway where is senju? Are they extinct?

[VanitasDS76491]

@vanitas
No, they will not rule the world because they would be outnumber and outgun and while sharingan can enslave biju doesn't mean every single uchiha capable to do what obito and madara did simply because one is buff by hashi juice while the other is simply a gift one.
If they win then there would be a resistance anti uchiha from konoha. But not from the world simply because uchiha is not that strong.
Anyway where is senju? Are they extinct?

I think tsunade is the last senju.

[James S Cassidy]

It's garbage, and a rebellion was required. Even Naruto lampshaded this again and again in Part 1 where he promised to change things for the better. Pity none of that actually happened.

Well, we are to be believed that the "Will of Fire" and such was actually a norm and that the Uchiha were actually bad guys because we are to be believed that they are "ungrateful."

So we have two views in this series:
-What is actually is or should have been
-What the writers are trying convince us to believe and failing at.

By the way, this is random....,but
I am officially accepting that Might Gai is Rock Lee's father. Might Gai is probably absent minded enough to forget such a detail despite the obvious since he clearly forgets even the opponents he fights AND there is really nothing to say otherwise. We don't see Rock Lee's parents and the fact that they both share similar traits AND look alike AND are practically mirror images....it is not hard to imagine.

And hey, if everything else can be retconned....why not this?

Speaking of which, we are lead to believe that Salad is Sakura's kid because she supposed dresses the same and have Sakura's techniques...or some of then..

But Rock Lee is not Might Gai's kid...supposedly...despite being exactly the same in almost every way.

In the words of Private Jackson from Saving Private Ryan
"Hey, Upham, careful you don't step in the kitten!"

Edited by James S Cassidy, 31 May 2017 - 04:56 AM.

[dl316bh]

I'm kind of amazed you guys still talk about this dumpster fire. I salute your dedication.

 

You know what? I remember the day when the damn chapter of Hinata's suicide confession came out. Most of us in here were pissed off about it but somehow thought that if Masashi Kishimoto had the balls to kill her off then her fans and NH fans will complain to infinity and beyond by treating her as a martyr. Most of us somehow fear if that happen, it will be a damn problem. But you know? I WISHED it would've happen! It will save us later on and possibly change everything for good for the franchise, even if it was cash cow status. I would've take that over this mess any day.

 

You talking about Hinata's wonderful plan of "run at Pain or whatever his name is despite being weak as hell" or did something similar happen after I stopped paying attention? Because man, that is still one of the funniest scenes I've ever read that wasn't intended to be comedic. She gives a confession, rushes the enemy and is just straight up shut down without getting in a single hit. That's something you'd see in a parody, not a serious work. Maybe a Robot Chicken sketch. That's like in Predator when Billy decided he was going to hold the line so the others could escape and died in two seconds. Off screen.

 

 

So we have two views in this series:
-What is actually is or should have been
-What the writers are trying convince us to believe and failing at.

 

That's the entire second half of Naruto in a nutshell.

 

 

Well, yes, the whole "love" thing was mostly an attempt to whitewash his previous portrayal of them and shift the blame elsewhere. Late game Naruto is filled to the brim with this crud.

 

I straight up stopped reading years before the end and I still remember this kind of thing going on, or at least the beginning of it. I think it goes back even further than just late game.

[rocci]

I think tsunade is the last senju.

Yeah, but how can they disappear? I mean this is the victor of the war you thought one of the strongest clan will stay around. I mean where's tsunade cousin, nice or nephew?

Kishi simply never mention them. Bad writing.

[VanitasDS76491]

Yeah, but how can they disappear? I mean this is the victor of the war you thought one of the strongest clan will stay around. I mean where's tsunade cousin, nice or nephew?
Kishi simply never mention them. Bad writing.

Agreed outside tsunade we only knew about her little brother and that's it.
Kishi was too busy with his Uchiha Love to think about things like that, which is why the hyuga have no point in the story.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Yeah, but how can they disappear? I mean this is the victor of the war you thought one of the strongest clan will stay around. I mean where's tsunade cousin, nice or nephew?

Kishi simply never mention them. Bad writing.

The Senju and the Uzumaki were never that important to them, despite the passing comments about how supposedly powerful they were.

If it's not Uchiha (or Hinata)-related, it doesn't matter enough to talk about for them..

[Shadow1275]

I'm actually curious what would happen if the coup did happen and they overtook the village, how many innocent people would die, then killing the whole clan save mikoto would be the whole needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Cause the Uchiha leading this like the age of apocalypse combined with days of Future Past and the empire from epiosde 4-6 of star wars.

Well my guess is everybody dies bc that seems to be the MO of the "All-Loving" Uchiha. No Mercy from the MOST loving and Merciful I guess. Remember the Uchiha are all about extremes, I think that is really what Kishi was trying to go for. But the key point here is that just bc you're the most powerful or the most Successful, doesn't guarantee that your plan should be undertaken.

 

Sasuke and Obito had solid morals behind their plans, they wanted to replace the garbage system with a new system that would prevent the crap of the past. The problem was they were going to make you participate whether you liked it or not.

 

Naruto tossed around empty promises and did nothing. Though Sasuke's plan was to become so hated that he would unite ppl in hatred??? Then crush the rebellion and create a new world order??? Just stick to the Homoerotic subtext Sasuke. 

 

Well, we are to be believed that the "Will of Fire" and such was actually a norm and that the Uchiha were actually bad guys because we are to be believed that they are "ungrateful."

So we have two views in this series:
-What is actually is or should have been
-What the writers are trying convince us to believe and failing at.

By the way, this is random....,but
I am officially accepting that Might Gai is Rock Lee's father. Might Gai is probably absent minded enough to forget such a detail despite the obvious since he clearly forgets even the opponents he fights AND there is really nothing to say otherwise. We don't see Rock Lee's parents and the fact that they both share similar traits AND look alike AND are practically mirror images....it is not hard to imagine.

And hey, if everything else can be retconned....why not this?

Speaking of which, we are lead to believe that Salad is Sakura's kid because she supposed dresses the same and have Sakura's techniques...or some of then..

But Rock Lee is not Might Gai's kid...supposedly...despite being exactly the same in almost every way.

In the words of Private Jackson from Saving Private Ryan
"Hey, Upham, careful you don't step in the kitten!"

I consider Part one Will of Fire to be different than Part 2's. In Part 1 Sarutobi refers to the Will as the desire to protect the village bc the clans see each other as a family and it passed down from generation to generation. That's noble and fine, and can be stretched to include changing the system. It's simple, all Naruto has to say is that back when clans were constantly at war drastic measures were needed to keep the peace such as the Jinchuriki Mutually Assured Destruction policy. 

 

Now this was in no way perfect, but consider the fact that after the Third War there no real Great War between the nations. In fact they held the Gokage Summit to unite against the Akatsuki and didn't even need Naruto. Then he can say, but now it is time for a new solution. And allows the next generation to uphold the will of fire or define it their way.

 

Instead we essentially get sacrifice for the Will of Fire or else.

 

In part 1 Naruto rejects the definition of what the old tymers like Kakashi, Jiraiya, Sarutobi, Orochimaru, Tsunade, etc. all claim a Shinobi is and says things will be different under him. In most of Part 2 he continues this pattern, even winning over former enemies of the Leaf and promising to "End the cycle of hate."

 

But then when Sasuke meets the Kages Hashirama, the oldest of the old, gives us the line Shinobi are those who endure. Endure does not mean end, it means suffer.

 

There are other small patterns too. I don't even have to talk Pairings. Part 1 NaruSasu focused on their Acknowledgement, But also their friendship. In fact what made their fight so dramatic in Part 1 was their friendship. Sasuke even asks, "Why are you fighting so hard to bring me back." And Naruto answers, "Cause you're my friend."

 

In Part 2 the friendship part takes a huge backseat to the Acknowledgement part. It's like everybody just wants to hop on Sasuke's..... Lap  In Part 1, Naruto was justified in bringing Sasuke back bc Orochimaru was going to steal his body. But in Part 2 for example, Naruto has no reason for bringing him home, if he really cared about Sasuke he would either just Tnj him into giving up his revenge or just kill him before he mires his reputation further and falls further into darkness.

 

Seems like Yahagi is the key to all of this. Everyone says the series felt different after Pain/LOI

 

Underlined: Yet Karen kept the Umbilical cord, was in the Family Portrait, etc.

 

Here's a real zinger for you, Why in the Hell did Sakura go to Karen to help her birth her child when she had THE GREATEST MEDICAL NINJA IN HISTORY AND HER PAGE WHO STUDIED UNDER TSUNADE FOR YEARS IN KONOHA?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

In Gaiden, Sakura in one of the flashbacks is clearly shown to be pregnant with Salad, so Dafuq is she doing at Orochimaru's lair?

 

In fact why is Orochimaru being allowed to keep breathing when he is STILL STEALING PPL'S BODIES?????????????

 

 

In Japanese culture, the biological mother keeps the cord, then there's the "True End" named chapter. Make of that what you will.

 

Bolded: No no no, Might Guy and Bushy Brows got married, Might Guy eventually grew Pregnant and gave birth to a Beautiful Bushy Browed Boy who now trains under his father Rock Lee.

[VanitasDS76491]

Well my guess is everybody dies bc that seems to be the MO of the "All-Loving" Uchiha. No Mercy from the MOST loving and Merciful I guess. Remember the Uchiha are all about extremes, I think that is really what Kishi was trying to go for. But the key point here is that just bc you're the most powerful or the most Successful, doesn't guarantee that your plan should be undertaken.
 
Sasuke and Obito had solid morals behind their plans, they wanted to replace the garbage system with a new system that would prevent the crap of the past. The problem was they were going to make you participate whether you liked it or not.
 
Naruto tossed around empty promises and did nothing. Though Sasuke's plan was to become so hated that he would unite ppl in hatred??? Then crush the rebellion and create a new world order??? Just stick to the Homoerotic subtext Sasuke. 
 

I consider Part one Will of Fire to be different than Part 2's. In Part 1 Sarutobi refers to the Will as the desire to protect the village bc the clans see each other as a family and it passed down from generation to generation. That's noble and fine, and can be stretched to include changing the system. It's simple, all Naruto has to say is that back when clans were constantly at war drastic measures were needed to keep the peace such as the Jinchuriki Mutually Assured Destruction policy. 
 
Now this was in no way perfect, but consider the fact that after the Third War there no real Great War between the nations. In fact they held the Gokage Summit to unite against the Akatsuki and didn't even need Naruto. Then he can say, but now it is time for a new solution. And allows the next generation to uphold the will of fire or define it their way.
 
Instead we essentially get sacrifice for the Will of Fire or else.
 
In part 1 Naruto rejects the definition of what the old tymers like Kakashi, Jiraiya, Sarutobi, Orochimaru, Tsunade, etc. all claim a Shinobi is and says things will be different under him. In most of Part 2 he continues this pattern, even winning over former enemies of the Leaf and promising to "End the cycle of hate."
 
But then when Sasuke meets the Kages Hashirama, the oldest of the old, gives us the line Shinobi are those who endure. Endure does not mean end, it means suffer.
 
There are other small patterns too. I don't even have to talk Pairings. Part 1 NaruSasu focused on their Acknowledgement, But also their friendship. In fact what made their fight so dramatic in Part 1 was their friendship. Sasuke even asks, "Why are you fighting so hard to bring me back." And Naruto answers, "Cause you're my friend."
 
In Part 2 the friendship part takes a huge backseat to the Acknowledgement part. It's like everybody just wants to hop on Sasuke's..... Lap  In Part 1, Naruto was justified in bringing Sasuke back bc Orochimaru was going to steal his body. But in Part 2 for example, Naruto has no reason for bringing him home, if he really cared about Sasuke he would either just Tnj him into giving up his revenge or just kill him before he mires his reputation further and falls further into darkness.
 
Seems like Yahagi is the key to all of this. Everyone says the series felt different after Pain/LOI
 
Underlined: Yet Karen kept the Umbilical cord, was in the Family Portrait, etc.
 
Here's a real zinger for you, Why in the Hell did Sakura go to Karen to help her birth her child when she had THE GREATEST MEDICAL NINJA IN HISTORY AND HER PAGE WHO STUDIED UNDER TSUNADE FOR YEARS IN KONOHA?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
In Gaiden, Sakura in one of the flashbacks is clearly shown to be pregnant with Salad, so Dafuq is she doing at Orochimaru's lair?
 
In fact why is Orochimaru being allowed to keep breathing when he is STILL STEALING PPL'S BODIES?????????????
 

 
In Japanese culture, the biological mother keeps the cord, then there's the "True End" named chapter. Make of that what you will.
 
Bolded: No no no, Might Guy and Bushy Brows got married, Might Guy eventually grew Pregnant and gave birth to a Beautiful Bushy Browed Boy who now trains under his father Rock Lee.

That's tfs cell video is all you get with Naruto now questions with no answer,
No one notice Sakura was gone for nine months and pregnant.

[tricksie]

On the other hand, this also grew out of a need to help explain how evil Itachi wasn't evil. I liked evil Itachi and could have lived with selfish-bastard Itachi if the series had been willing to call him that. Instead we got a guy who was a selfish SOB portrayed as good. The other characters just smiled and waved (I'm looking at you Naruto). It still amazes me that no one appeared to have any idea how "good" Itachi came across. Rather than have unclean, complex, characters we have to have redemption and it has to be good.

Again they turned Itachi into the boss from MGS 3 where only a select few knew the truth and the rest don't know about. Itachi was better as a straight up villain. 

Yes - I always hoped for more complexity from the villain's side of the story. That Itachi could have been in it for sheer power and ego and glory, while Pain, his inner circle and the structure of Akatsuki, could have been designed to be a counter balance to the village political system that didn't work for him. You could have two (or more) paradigms of personal power vs. village-type power on the villain's side. But these Pain's story was undone in a series of arena-like battles that took out each one the Akatsuki. And then Itachi's whole motivation went poof with him becoming good. 

 

I think it was a missed opportunity in the manga that the clearly flawed "good" leaders (of Konoha and its allies) didn't have an equally complex sets of adversaries. Villains who wanted and ran their own villages, for power, etc. Or individuals who were powerful enough on their own that they thought they should rightfully be able to do and have what they wanted.  

 

After the war, I was really hoping for a final arc that focused completely on Sasuke and Naruto, and their struggle with dealing with the wreckage of what the people before them had left. Two opposing view points, distilled down into two characters, and how they solved it. An arc that also went into the history of the senju and the uchiha, and how Naruto (as the chosen one) was going to resolve it. Not in a giant battle, but one-on-one. I really never imagined it would end so abruptly, with so few answers and with so little resolved.

 

And going back to that Haku Massacre thing, how is one Massacre Horrible and used for an example of how Shinobi are ppl and yet the Uchiha Massacre is somehow Acceptable?????    

Right - the rules changed in the story. And in fact, Kishimoto stopped focusing on all those other atrocities altogether, and only what happened in Konoha. It's like he wrote this big complex story, then decided not to follow through. The problem, to me, isn't that one massacre isacceptable and one isn't — the problem is that in the beginning of the series, massacres and genocides and brutal killings were part of the story. And then somewhere along the way, that gruesome history was dropped. There were no more outside massacres, no more talk of the Blood Mist, etc. It was only the Uchiha. And the series never went back to that original complex story at the beginning. And we're just supposed to accept that Naruto and Sasuke settled this complex geo-political, supernatural, multi-generational war with a fist-fight. Ugh.

 

I'm actually curious what would happen if the coup did happen and they overtook the village, how many innocent people would die, then killing the whole clan save mikoto would be the whole needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. 

That would have been an interesting twist. I wish they'd gone back into the history and some tangent possibilities like that. With the Uchiha or other notable clans.

 

Yeah, but how can they disappear? I mean this is the victor of the war you thought one of the strongest clan will stay around. I mean where's tsunade cousin, nice or nephew?

Kishi simply never mention them. Bad writing.

Yeah...this is a big gripe of mine. The Senju and the Uzumaki clans. No mention. Nothing. Nada. Where the f are they? Especially the Senju, the clan who apparently dominated the Uchiha. If Tsunade was the last one, and she left the village, then what was keeping the Uchiha in their place? Who was the coup supposed to be against if all the senju were already killed off? And if they weren't, then when did it happen? So yeah...like I said, I was really hoping/expecting a final arc to delve into these clans/people who were directly related to Naruto and Sasuke. 

 

Same with Uzumaki. How did the Whirlpool nation get destroyed and their apparently very powerful and long-lived citizens become refugees scattered across the countries? Was it about the kyuubi? And if so, could a secret attack have come from the Uchiha? Or another country trying to get hold of the demon? Lots of questions that have no answers.