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#24261 Nate River

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 01:47 AM

Seems to be that the Uchiha were all scumbags in the first place who also didn't care about human lives. What Danzo did was horrible, but the Uchiha weren't exactly innocent either.

Also seeing how the Uchiha became your enemy even if you gave them all the love in the world. I mean, if we are to believe the love Naruto had for Sasuke and Sakura as well....and about every girl in the entire series....then Sasuke became a bad guy simply because he is a horrible person deep down.

Sasuke doesn't care. For a clan that many in this series claimed to be "all about love and loving too much," Sasuke is extremely apathetic to feelings of love.

Then again, this series doesn't make sense and any and all reasons Kishimoto has is pointless and moot. You have a clan that thinks revenge is the ultimate form of love in the world. The Uchiha are incredibly emo and gothic clan. Dark hair, lots of black clothing, red is the only other color including eyes....I bet they have a Konoha Hot Topic as well.

Although, to be fair, in real life it is not much different. The world is full of opposites.
Those who preach tolerance are usually the most intolerant.....and many other examples.
So I wonder, if you really look at real life...how many people in this world who some think are "good people" are actually scumbags who talk big, but are evil at heart? Probbaly most politicians....and CEO businessman....and...*goes trailing off for 3 hours listing hundreds of types of people*


Well, yes, the whole "love" thing was mostly an attempt to whitewash his previous portrayal of them and shift the blame elsewhere. Late game Naruto is filled to the brim with this crud. Up until the point where Sasuke got to meet the Kage's (fromm Suigetsu and Juugo found magically lodged up their rear) the series portray of the Uchiha had been almost universally negative. Sasuke's father was an ass who planned a coup. Itachi murdered them all. Madara attempted a coup himself. Sasuke was a revenge seeking traitor. Obito started a war and planned to subdue the whole world with another Uchiha. I think that's why the Tobirama stuff got thrown in too. There were attached one way or another to every single atrocity in the Naruto universe. A story of redemption involving them neededsomething to try an undo that.

 

If the series weren't so clearly trying to a late game rehabilitation project on the Uchiha behalf (I mean, Sasuke even meeting them was a contrived POS), the Tobirama part might have worked. It's one of the few moral dilemma's raised at that point the series that didn't completely suck. I can understand why the Uchiha would chaff under constant supervision from a government that didn't trust them. I can also understand why Tobirama (and the village) didn't trust them. He reluctantly went with his brother's plan only to watch Madara bail on the project and then mount a coup of his own. 

 

This whole situation is ripe for a whole series of misunderstanding and mistrust that could easily be self-reinforcing on both sides. Given that this appeared to last more than a generation, it's doubtful anyone had clean hands, but, of course, that's not really a good scenario for a series that was activity trying to protect certain characters. Had this been brought up in Part 1 I would have thought Kishimoto was doing a good job. Since it was during the manga's collapse, I'm not sure the interest components were just an accident that grew out of his attempt to blameshift his way out of a mess.

 

On the other hand, this also grew out of a need to help explain how evil Itachi wasn't evil. I liked evil Itachi and could have lived with selfish-bastard Itachi if the series had been willing to call him that. Instead we got a guy who was a selfish SOB portrayed as good. The other characters just smiled and waved (I'm looking at you Naruto). It still amazes me that no one appeared to have any idea how "good" Itachi came across. Rather than have unclean, complex, characters we have to have redemption and it has to be good.



#24262 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 02:09 AM

Well, yes, the whole "love" thing was mostly an attempt to whitewash his previous portrayal of them and shift the blame elsewhere. Late game Naruto is filled to the brim with this crud. Up until the point where Sasuke got to meet the Kage's (fromm Suigetsu and Juugo found magically lodged up their rear) the series portray of the Uchiha had been almost universally negative. Sasuke's father was an ass who planned a coup. Itachi murdered them all. Madara attempted a coup himself. Sasuke was a revenge seeking traitor. Obito started a war and planned to subdue the whole world with another Uchiha. I think that's why the Tobirama stuff got thrown in too. There were attached one way or another to every single atrocity in the Naruto universe. A story of redemption involving them neededsomething to try an undo that.
 
If the series weren't so clearly trying to a late game rehabilitation project on the Uchiha behalf (I mean, Sasuke even meeting them was a contrived POS), the Tobirama part might have worked. It's one of the few moral dilemma's raised at that point the series that didn't completely suck. I can understand why the Uchiha would chaff under constant supervision from a government that didn't trust them. I can also understand why Tobirama (and the village) didn't trust them. He reluctantly went with his brother's plan only to watch Madara bail on the project and then mount a coup of his own. 
 
This whole situation is ripe for a whole series of misunderstanding and mistrust that could easily be self-reinforcing on both sides. Given that this appeared to last more than a generation, it's doubtful anyone had clean hands, but, of course, that's not really a good scenario for a series that was activity trying to protect certain characters. Had this been brought up in Part 1 I would have thought Kishimoto was doing a good job. Since it was during the manga's collapse, I'm not sure the interest components were just an accident that grew out of his attempt to blameshift his way out of a mess.
 
On the other hand, this also grew out of a need to help explain how evil Itachi wasn't evil. I liked evil Itachi and could have lived with selfish-bastard Itachi if the series had been willing to call him that. Instead we got a guy who was a selfish SOB portrayed as good. The other characters just smiled and waved (I'm looking at you Naruto). It still amazes me that no one appeared to have any idea how "good" Itachi came across. Rather than have unclean, complex, characters we have to have redemption and it has to be good.

Again they turned Itachi into the boss from MGS 3 where only a select few knew the truth and the rest don't know about. Itachi was better as a straight up villain. Seems like everyone takes it up the ass from the Uchiha since everyone just hand waved their crimes and worshipped them. Wonder what would happen if someone exposed every dirt secret the Uchiha had, that the leaf village covered up wonder how naruto would deal with that.

#24263 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 07:37 AM

@halfdemoninuyasah
Kick them out will solve the problem, but massacring them don't.
Fear of war? Konoha is not that weak you know.
And it will make itachi still side with konoha. Itachi and jiraiya is enough to defeat them.

Danzo is power hungry and he's never a patriot or nationalist. He's opportunist kitten. What's with let the village burn when they got attack by pain.

Your argument only make konoha as a villain. No good guy massacre no matter how grim the story. This is just a political motive done bad.

Let's face it, all this happen in order to justify itachi murder. Nothing more nothing less. It's like justifying the genocide of killua clan in order to paint spider gang as good guy.

Oh and kaguya clan is mad clan, that's really different thing than emo clan.

1.) As I said, kicking out the Uchiha Clan would only greatly compound the problem for Konoha, not solve it.

By kicking out the Uchiha Clan, it would make them free agents again, just like they were during the Clan Wars, leaving them free to join or be hired by any other village willing to pay them and/or help them in their agenda by having similar goals. In this case, it would be the destruction of Konoha.


2.) Also as I said, Konoha was still weakened by Kurama's attack via Obito before on top of having lost Minato in said attack. Hiruzen was still generally strong, but as we saw against Orochimaru, he was also old and had far less stamina, and losing the Uchiha Clan and the Sharingan would only further weaken their forces. There's also the fact that the Uchiha Clan would be able to provide vital information to Konoha's enemies due to their positions in the police force. Look at how easily Orochimaru was able to infiltrate and instigate the Suna/Oto Invasion, or how easily Itachi and Kisame were able to infiltrate Konoha due to Itachi's knowledge of its inner workings.

3.) Seriously? You think Itachi and Jiraiya alone would be enough to beat all of Iwa, Kumo, and quite possibly Suna and other Hidden Villages with grudges against Konoha? Itachi and Jiraiya are very strong, no doubt, but even they are hardly capable of effortlessly handling literally thousands of shinobi single-handed, and it's not like Kumo, Iwa, and other villages are without their own extremely powerful figures that would be able to keep Itachi and Jiraiya at least occupied. Even Minato didn't literally defeat all of Iwa's forces alone in the previous war. He only defeated a few squads (as in usually three to five shinobi each, usually), via the Hiraishin technique, earning him an infamous reputation, but it was the work of all of a full-powered Konoha together that eventually defeated Iwa. But, as I said before again, Konoha would not be at that full power this time around, but would be much weaker, and would be up against at least two major villages who, unlike Konoha, had spent the subsequent years after the war rebuilding and rearming their forces while Konoha became complacent during the peacetime. Not "weak", but they certainly would not be fully prepared for another war either.

There's also the fact that there are wild cards that would work against Konoha. Orochimaru could very easily get himself involved, seeing an opportunity to capture test subjects or field test other experiments and such while also seeking revenge on Konoha, and Iwa could, as they have done before, as revealed at the Kage Summit, hire Akatsuki to help in the war effort and we now know how very powerful every one of their members are - each one capable of fighting a Kage.


4.) Except by your logic, Danzo would have had Hiruzen killed long ago. He would have had Minato killed to keep him from becoming the Hokage so he could take the position back then. He would have had anyone who dared question him eliminated and silenced. He's definitely no saint, but rather an extremist in his nationalism and patriotism, caring more about the village rather than its people.

5.) You're looking at things in a completely black and white viewpoint and not the gray that the world has been painted as in the Naruto universe. You're trying to paint Konoha as the "bad guys" even though, as we explained, the Uchiha Clan were far from being "good guys". Konoha has also been shown to never have been saints either. In fact, just like other hidden villages, they still trained young children to be child soldiers, expecting them to fight, kill, and, if necessary, die on the battlefield for their village for as little as simply making it more money, sometimes doing some of the dirtiest deeds to do so. They still had Hunter Nin whose job it was to hunt down those listed in the Bingo Book for bounties as well as to hunt down and execute traitors; no trials or anything. They still had Black Ops squads meant to carry out highly top secret missions that would no doubt be frowned upon by the populace and even other, standard shinobi if their details were known; Kakashi and Itachi even being leaders of such squads as ANBU captains, and even the Uchiha Massacre having been one such Black Ops mission.


2e5.gif


#24264 Askia31

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 09:51 AM

 

sasusaku made it



#24265 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 09:58 AM


 
sasusaku made it

Yes they placed 4th which is a good place for them, number 4-2 I agree with with digimon and dbz, thankfully it was canon pairings cause that way NS wouldn't be on their.

#24266 rocci

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 01:25 PM

Where's nh?

#24267 sushi.

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 01:28 PM

Where's nh?

in the vid about top 10 best anime ships 😖🤢

ナルサク


#24268 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 02:45 PM

in the vid about top 10 best anime ships


Yes sadly it was and very low only number 6. To be honest I'd take nh over ss. Nh is possible if there was more to it.

#24269 Askia31

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 07:03 PM

well i can see why he didn't include NH in the video even if he wasn't fond of it, there probably would be a backlash. Not to mention, NH is just your typical boring shounen couple, there's really nothing to say about it :/

 

 

I was surprised at how much hate SS was receiving in the comment section. Definitely made my day, more so than the video itself.



#24270 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 07:15 PM

well i can see why he didn't include NH in the video even if he wasn't fond of it, there probably would be a backlash. Not to mention, NH is just your typical boring shounen couple, there's really nothing to say about it :/
 
 
I was surprised at how much hate SS was receiving in the comment section. Definitely made my day, more so than the video itself.

Were people glad about ss place on the list?

#24271 T XD

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 09:03 PM

in the vid about top 10 best anime ships

Really ? Of all pairings in manga and anime ? That's strange. It seems based on a personal opinion.



#24272 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 09:30 PM

Really ? Of all pairings in manga and anime ? That's strange. It seems based on a personal opinion.


I'm just glad ss was in the worst list and I'm happy with their place cause Ya number 3 and 2 are bad that being the ending pairs in digimon season 2 with Kari and t.k and tai and Sora. Goku and chichi are just bad namely Goku is the bad one. Just be thankful nh only placed sixth in the list but really switch nh spot with yusuke and keiko from yu yu hausuko cause they are infinity better than nh.

#24273 rocci

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 09:48 PM

in the vid about top 10 best anime ships 😖🤢

The reason why ss is getting hate because sakura. Sakura is popularly unpopular.
The reason why nh is in the top ten best pairing because naruto is popular.

#24274 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 09:51 PM

The reason why ss is getting hate because sakura. Sakura is popularly unpopular.
The reason why nh is in the top ten best pairing because naruto is popular.

I think it was more hinata was popular than naruto in the best list. Well in there top nsru t ok characters hinata placed 9th Over Jiraya which is bull kitten Jiraya had more of a point and role on the series, and sakura placed 4th.

#24275 rocci

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 10:03 PM

I think it was more hinata was popular than naruto in the best list. Well in there top nsru t ok characters hinata placed 9th Over Jiraya which is bull kitten Jiraya had more of a point and role on the series, and sakura placed 4th.

Yeah, it certainly has a factor.

Wait sakura is number 4? Nice, her hater must hate it.

#24276 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 11:04 PM

Yeah, it certainly has a factor.
Wait sakura is number 4? Nice, her hater must hate it.

No doubt they hated it but I think it was her place so high and hinata so low.
Did you watch their top 10 Naruto characters of all time?
Fun fact neji and Garra placed higher than hinata and Itachi placed 5th and Naruto 3rd. Take a wild guess who got 2nd and 1st place?

#24277 Nate River

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 11:11 PM

Yes they placed 4th which is a good place for them, number 4-2 I agree with with digimon and dbz, thankfully it was canon pairings cause that way NS wouldn't be on their.

 
I object to the inclusion of Light/Misa. It looked like almost every relationship on there was sold to the audience as a functioning relationship where the audience was supposed to conclude it was a genuine relationship (even if the portrayal failed in its efforts). Light/Misa was never sold this way. Death Note made no bones about what Light was doing. We weren't supposed to conclude it was a real relationship. He used her as a tool, which is exactly what the writer's were going for. Yes, it was a bad relationship. It was supposed to be, where as many on that list weren't. The audience was supposed to swallow it and nod with SS, not conclude it was mess.



#24278 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 11:30 PM

I object to the inclusion of Light/Misa. It looked like almost every relationship on there was sold to the audience as a functioning relationship where the audience was supposed to conclude it was a genuine relationship (even if the portrayal failed in its efforts). Light/Misa was never sold this way. Death Note made no bones about what Light was doing. We weren't supposed to conclude it was a real relationship. He used her as a tool, which is exactly what the writer's were going for. Yes, it was a bad relationship. It was supposed to be, where as many on that list weren't. The audience was supposed to swallow it and nod with SS, not conclude it was mess.


I haven't watched or read death note yet so I have no say on it.

#24279 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 02:19 AM

Really ? Of all pairings in manga and anime ? That's strange. It seems based on a personal opinion.

Naruto was once one of the biggest anime in the States, that actually came to tv instead of being on dvd or online. So it going to be in the top tens when they talk about anime. Same as if they did a top ten about live action pairings some how ones from those superhero tv shows, walking dead, or game of thrones will be on there.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 30 May 2017 - 02:28 AM.


#24280 rikakim94

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 07:12 AM

I'm just glad ss was in the worst list and I'm happy with their place cause Ya number 3 and 2 are bad that being the ending pairs in digimon season 2 with Kari and t.k and tai and Sora. Goku and chichi are just bad namely Goku is the bad one. Just be thankful nh only placed sixth in the list but really switch nh spot with yusuke and keiko from yu yu hausuko cause they are infinity better than nh.

 

Wait they put kari and tk and tai and sora in the bad pairings list? I don't think goku and chichi are that bad.







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