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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#42901 ultranx

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 09:01 PM

 

"Hinata actually has a workable backstory: her father issues, her self-esteem issues, and the Hyuuga Branch enslavement issues. Mysteriously, they are never brought up, and her shyness isn't acknowledged by the narrative as a character flaw. Instead, it gets heavily romanticized."

 

Her shyness as well as a lot of her other character traits are criticized in the manga. During and after she charged Pein she was criticize for being stupidly reckless by Naruto and Neji and she called herself selfish. Sakura had to tell her to focus on the fight against tobi and not to worry about Naruto. So it like with us Kishi knows what her character flaws are and criticizes them. The problem is that people who love her who work on the anime don't see them as character flaws and love those aspects about her personality. And since her fans are basing her off the anime more then the manga she is perfect without any flaws.

 

You know her Father became less of a kitten after the Neji Naruto fight, and it was more Naruto promise of becoming hokage to end the slavery practice because what it did to neji. So hinata actually is a side character who story actually revolves around neji. Remove neji and all she has is a complete and utter obsessive devotion to her Naruto-kun.

 

 

Edit: Also Ultra where else do you think they got any information about kishi from? Reading his interviews? Actually buying and reading the volumes? Cause remember mangaka put author notes in their volumes. I forget who but some one here was reading their copies and telling us what he said in the later volumes like he likes taking baths. Unless the information is basically given to them they are not going to go look for it. 

 

yes but I'm talking the ones who didn't make the fan scanilation sites, the people reading it online spouting this crap who never read the manga volumes and official products, THEM. 


Edited by ultranx, 20 April 2016 - 09:02 PM.

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#42902 Skarrow

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 10:23 PM

Tbh I think it could have been much, much worse than ch 699-700 and The Last.

"Hiruzen Obito Uzumaki, you were named for two Konoha shinobi. One of them was an Uchiha, and he was probably the coolest man I ever knew."



#42903 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:36 PM

You know its at times like this I have to agree with what the Master said in Doctor who The End of Time.

 

"The whole stupid stinking human disgrace can fall into the pit."

 

I mean with how Naruto is and how many think girls should be all yes master use me how you like, and trust me I have seen people who say they like girls like that. God what have people become that is what I would like to know right now why people think that woman saying master and letting men doing what we want to them is a good thing?



#42904 rocci

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:24 AM

@skarrow
The only time Hinata become main character is in the last which is the movie dedicate for her.

Sakura has potential but kishi never live up nor fulfil it.
Sakura has the same relevancy with kakashi. The difference is one of them is fan favorite while the other is fan hate character who I think the hate is as big as jar jar bink.

Oh Hinata background only interesting for her fan.

#42905 Skarrow

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:56 AM

@skarrow
The only time Hinata become main character is in the last which is the movie dedicate for her.

 

 

I never claimed otherwise.

 

Sakura got replaced by Hinata as a main character in The Last.

 

and

 

Sakura has potential but kishi never live up nor fulfil it.

 

I said that too.

 

 

Sakura has the same relevancy with kakashi. The difference is one of them is fan favorite while the other is fan hate character who I think the hate is as big as jar jar bink.

 

We're essentially saying the same thing, but from two opposite sides of the situation.

 

 

 

Oh Hinata background only interesting for her fan.

 

I don't know what you're trying to argue here.

 

I know it's frustrating, but now that Hinata is officially the heroine, her background is relevant to the story at hand.

 

Except, they make no mention of it in The Last and just focused entirely on her feelings for Naruto. And then make her irrelevant in the Bolt movie and in Naruto Gaiden.


Edited by Skarrow, 21 April 2016 - 01:02 AM.


#42906 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:49 AM

and those same people say hinata is like chichi from dragon ball, that makes even less sense because hinata doesn't have a violent bone in her body, compare adult chichi to adult hinata, I'm like "WTF ARE THEY SEEING 0.O "

 

literally the only thing the same between them is they're both royalty and both side characters, THAT'S IT. and if that's their excuse then they are completely clueless in debates when we compare different females to sakura, at least with sakura there's an actual comparison PERSONALITY WISE,the whole point of the comparisons is the personalities and interactions, seriously....

And despite the way Chichi acts, she at least shows she cares about her family even despite knowing how powerful Goku, Gohan, and Goten are while Hinata doesn't seem to really react to anything Boruto or Himawari do. If Gohan and/or Goten ever did anything remotely like what Boruto or Himawari did, Chichi would bash their skulls, scold and reprimand them, and punish them.

Chichi also was able to fearlessly march up to Buu, the being whom she had learned was responsible for Vegeta's and Gohan's deaths (or thought, in Gohan's case), slapped him and yelled at him. Sure it got her killed, but unlike Hinata, she wasn't acting out of any sort of "selfish" reasoning; she was just that pissed off at him.

Chichi may have chosen to become a housewife after being a fighter but at least we know that was completely her choice and fits with how her character was while she still maintains that fire she always had since we first met her. Hinata supposedly had these lofty, big goals in (also) wanting to lead the Hyuga Clan and change its laws and yet...nothing...she's just "there" as a submissive, obedient, silent, empty housewife with no explanation whatsoever and not even a clue about anything happening with the clan.
 

 

 

"Hinata actually has a workable backstory: her father issues, her self-esteem issues, and the Hyuuga Branch enslavement issues. Mysteriously, they are never brought up, and her shyness isn't acknowledged by the narrative as a character flaw. Instead, it gets heavily romanticized."

 

Her shyness as well as a lot of her other character traits are criticized in the manga. During and after she charged Pein she was criticize for being stupidly reckless by Naruto and Neji and she called herself selfish. Sakura had to tell her to focus on the fight against tobi and not to worry about Naruto. So it like with us Kishi knows what her character flaws are and criticizes them. The problem is that people who love her who work on the anime don't see them as character flaws and love those aspects about her personality. And since her fans are basing her off the anime more then the manga she is perfect without any flaws.

 

You know her Father became less of a kitten after the Neji Naruto fight, and it was more Naruto promise of becoming hokage to end the slavery practice because what it did to neji. So hinata actually is a side character who story actually revolves around neji. Remove neji and all she has is a complete and utter obsessive devotion to her Naruto-kun.

 

 

Edit: Also Ultra where else do you think they got any information about kishi from? Reading his interviews? Actually buying and reading the volumes? Cause remember mangaka put author notes in their volumes. I forget who but some one here was reading their copies and telling us what he said in the later volumes like he likes taking baths. Unless the information is basically given to them they are not going to go look for it. 

 

And that's what I keep saying - Hinata's fight in the Chunin Exam as well as Naruto's whole blood oath thing was never truly about her, but about Neji and his attitude and actions. Once Neji's part in the Chunin Exam had been resolved, Hinata had also pretty much just disappeared since she only "mattered" if Neji was somehow involved. Even with Naruto, all she is a prop or set piece filling in space with no real meaning otherwise. Heck, she even only had her whole hand-holding thing with Naruto because of Neji being pointlessly sacrificed to play cupid, but once that was done, Hinata once again became meaningless, and even her tripping scene having her begging Neji's freaking ghost to save Naruto's life, as if knowing that she was only "connected" to Naruto due to his bond with Neji, not because of anything to do with herself..


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#42907 LuckyChi7

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 02:12 AM

I know this is usually 4life's little style, but I'm gonna borrow it just this once...  

 

 

If Naruto: The Last was a story about the sisterly bond between Hinata and Hanabi  kinda like Frozen and it focused on that as it's primary plot,  and the NaruHina  romance was a subplot to the film instead, then it would make the film better. 

 

 

Agree or Disagree? 


Edited by LuckyChi7, 21 April 2016 - 02:13 AM.

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#42908 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 03:08 AM

I know this is usually 4life's little style, but I'm gonna borrow it just this once...  
 
 
If Naruto: The Last was a story about the sisterly bond between Hinata and Hanabi  kinda like Frozen and it focused on that as it's primary plot,  and the NaruHina  romance was a subplot to the film instead, then it would make the film better. 
 
 
Agree or Disagree? 

It would but that would still make NH half assed since it's based on a series with another pairing that just override this one. Still, the film itself would better because at least Hinata would have a character for starters.

#42909 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 04:45 AM

I know this is usually 4life's little style, but I'm gonna borrow it just this once...  

 

 

If Naruto: The Last was a story about the sisterly bond between Hinata and Hanabi  kinda like Frozen and it focused on that as it's primary plot,  and the NaruHina  romance was a subplot to the film instead, then it would make the film better. 

 

 

Agree or Disagree? 

Actually yes. The romance being at the forefront and the focus of the movie was the most damaging part even more then the awfulness and triteness of the romance it self. One of the problems people had with the plot was that hanabi was just a prop to make hinata go on the mission. After that she was almost completely forgotten as hinata spent most of the time thinking about Naruto and knitting scarves. Leading to people and even herself to complain she was a horrible sister. If instead we saw a movie were hinata went to the limit to find her sister and save her. This would impress Naruto and the audience and allow us to she her in a better light. Also if it was focused on that and romance wasn't the entire movie then the fans would have looked at it more favorable. It may still be bad but it wouldn't be in your face bad.



#42910 Skarrow

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 08:23 AM

I know this is usually 4life's little style, but I'm gonna borrow it just this once...  

 

 

If Naruto: The Last was a story about the sisterly bond between Hinata and Hanabi  kinda like Frozen and it focused on that as it's primary plot,  and the NaruHina  romance was a subplot to the film instead, then it would make the film better. 

 

 

Agree or Disagree? 

 

Definitely agree. The Last was what made me stop supporting canon NH in the first place.

 

They shouldn't just make the romance a subplot. They should fix a lot more things about the movie's actual plot. If I was at home right now, I would list these things down, but instead I'll talk about one thing they shouldn't have done:

 

Hinata's bullying scene existed not only to create that stupid red scarf metaphor, but also to highlight the Byakugan. If they wanted to give attention to the Byakugan they should scrap the scene entirely (seriously, trash that scarf metaphor) and replace it with an in-depth look at Kumo's attempted kidnapping of Hinata, which will not only give the audience an idea of how prized the doujutsu is, but will FINALLY explain how an ambassador from Kumo managed to infiltrate a clan compound full of ninjas who can see through walls. Then they should follow this flashback with an explanation of the different levels of Byakugan, contrasting it with the Uchiha's Sharingan. And finally they should talk about the Hyuuga clan in general, and their relationship to Hamura.


Edited by Skarrow, 21 April 2016 - 08:25 AM.


#42911 rocci

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 10:41 AM

@skarrow
That's an interesting idea.
Too bad that hyuga is a fodder clan.

#42912 Phantom_999

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:04 PM



What ultimately disappointed me about Sakura was the fact that she was one of the four main characters of Naruto (that's Team 7, basically).

 

People would claim in the past that "Hinata makes a better heroine than Sakura" but these are the shippers talking. Anyone who seriously compared the two of them before The Last had their shipper goggles on full power, fighting over whether Naruto should father Hinata's babies or Sakura's babies. Other than Uzumaki Naruto, they had nothing relevant to compare with each other.

 

Because Sakura was a main character, and Hinata was a side character. That's all there is to it.

 

Hinata was a side character, so expectations for her were relatively low.

 

Sakura on the other hand was a MAIN character, and her character development and relevancy to the plot was supposed to be keeping up with Naruto's, Sasuke's, and Kakashi's. Or at least keeping up with Kakashi's development/relevancy because one of the major focuses of the manga was the Naruto/Sasuke rivalry.

 

Her development in part 1 was... okay. She started out as a noisy brat who didn't understand orphans. Then she had the scene where she was unable to keep from crying when Sasuke was presumed dead in the Waves arc. She then protected Naruto and Sasuke from Sound ninja in the Chuunin Exams. Her fight with her rival Ino in the prelims was a moment of strength for her. POAL happened. And then she goes up to Tsunade and asks for training.

 

At the beginning of part 2 her development/relevance skyrocketed so much, fans were going crazy. She singlehandedly saved Kankuro from death by poison, a poison that no one knew how to treat, with the skills she'd picked up during the timeskip. She teamed up with Chiyo to fight with Sasori and beat him, when in the past all she could do was just act as a meat shield with a kunai.

 

Expectations of Sakura were hyped up like crazy... and Sakura herself just stopped. She was just there. Or used as a device, like a side character. She failed to live up to the weighty expectations that had been placed on her. In comparison, Sasuke and Naruto's characters got loads and loads of attention and relevancy. Kakashi faded from the spotlight for a while, but bounced back when Obito's identity was revealed. But Sakura's development/relevance just came to a halt after the Gaara Rescue arc. Worse, her development/relevancy took a nosedive during the Kage Summit arc.

 

The Kage Summit arc was arguably one of the worst arcs of part 2 and the entire series, because while the War arc created plot hole after plot hole, the Kage Summit arc gave all four main characters negative character development. Sakura got hit by it the worst, because up until then her relevancy/development had been completely static. I'm not talking about her confession to Naruto. I'm talking about when she had the chance to kill/seriously injure Sasuke, and didn't take it.

 

We already know about how her spine had been ripped away from her and all she began to focus on was Sasuke, resetting any development she had left, so I won't talk about it here. I think everyone would agree that Sakura was beyond saving when Sasuke told her "sorry" and she replied with "for what?".

 

Sakura had the potential. Kakashi had pointed out in part 1 that Sakura was intelligent, had a talent for chakra control and genjutsu, and was "the same as Naruto" in the sense that she hated giving up and refused to go down easily. In part 2 Kakashi also noted that at the rate of her development, Sakura would soon surpass Tsunade herself. Chiyo commented that Sakura had a noble heart, which was rare (among kunoichi). Ignoring the slight sexist undertones, Chiyo was referring to Sakura's strength of character as a person and as a shinobi. Sakura had the potential... and she failed to live up to everyone's expectations.

 

So.

 

Sakura got replaced by Hinata as a main character in The Last.

 

Now that the focus was on Hinata and not on Sakura (who was officially a side character at this point), we see the exact same problems.

 

Hinata actually has a workable backstory: her father issues, her self-esteem issues, and the Hyuuga Branch enslavement issues. Mysteriously, they are never brought up, and her shyness isn't acknowledged by the narrative as a character flaw. Instead, it gets heavily romanticized.

 

Hinata is shown to not have changed at all since her part 1 self. She is unable to give Naruto a scarf without some serious prodding from Sakura. Actually, it's even worse because in part 1, Hinata mustered up the courage to give Naruto the medicine herself (and succeeded), but in The Last she was literally unable to talk to Naruto for two whole years, and was unable to give the scarf to Naruto until they were in the middle of dangerous enemy territory, with her own sister suffering from missing eyeballs close by.

 

When she learns about Toneri's plans to destroy the world and what he did to Hanabi's eyes, she keeps the information to herself instead of informing her teammates about it, then proceeds to romantically frolic with Naruto through a destroyed city and fix the red scarf. When she finds out that she is the Byakugan Princess in that very same city, destined to save the world, from Hamura Otsutsuki himself, she again keeps that vital information to herself instead of coming up with a plan together with her teammates and continues to knit the red scarf, then goes off by herself with Toneri without a word. She isn't even shown worrying about Hanabi, her own sister, at all.

 

Despite her newly acquired powers she'd gained from Hamura as the Byakugan Princess, which supposedly makes her stronger than both Naruto and Sasuke, she is unable to follow through and destroy the Tenseigan. Even if her success was dictated by destiny itself. Toneri, who doesn't trust Hinata at all, for some inexplicable reason covers his entire face right in full view of her because the pain of his developing doujutsu is too great, and Hinata doesn't capitalize on it. It's Sakura failing to capitalize on her chance to kill Sasuke all over again, except now it's Hinata's turn to fail.

 

The only important things Hinata got to do in her own movie were: 1) Infiltrate Toneri's castle 2) pluck out Hanabi's eyeballs from Toneri's eyesockets 3) Do a combination attack with Naruto.

 

And then when everything ended, Hinata invites Toneri, the same guy who nearly ended all life as we know it, the same guy who tried to force marriage on her (and most likely rape her later on), the same guy who stole Hanabi's eyeballs, the same guy who destroyed Naruto-kun's red scarf that she worked so hard on since the beginning of this movie, to live with them on earth. Toneri refuses the offer and decides to live alone on the moon to repent. Basically, Hinata did the same thing as Sakura and instantly forgave Toneri for all the atrocities he'd committed, and Toneri pulled a Sasuke by staying away to "repent" but instead of becoming a wanderer, he's on the moon. And thus he got away with everything. Sasuke had the excuse of being one of those who saved the world, what's Toneri's excuse?

 

When the Bolt movie came out, she was made irrelevant again.

 

The conclusion is thus: Sakura failed as a main character, and her relevancy/story arc/character development just went full circle, all the way back to her chapter 3 self. And Hinata also failed as a main character, because she also went full circle by going from being irrelevant, to being a relevant main character and failing to meet the standards placed on her, and then falling quickly back to her irrelevant status. If the title "heroine" means "which girl successfully banged Naruto" and nothing else, then I don't give a damn anymore.

 

And do you know what is the IRONIC part of this VERY TRUE post that you made? (love it by the way) :wink:  Hinata is praised for this very BS that so many hate Sakura for! when Hinata does this kittens,everyone eats it up, spoon and all! :zaru: If  "so-called" feminists call Sakura a "weak and sexist portrayal of women",  but buy that kitten that Hinata is the true heroine and is Naruto's official love interest and wife for the sub missive tendencies Sakura displays for Sasuke, because "The Last" says so, I SPIT on their logic and call them hypocrites.  :down: NH (Hinata) fans and SS (Sasuke) fans have SO MANY hypocrites (not all though), and the biggest joke of all is that their creator is counted among them :dry: Now laugh with me peeps! Laugh with me!   :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:


Edited by Phantom_999, 21 April 2016 - 10:31 PM.

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#42913 Yyubie

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:08 PM

 

Definitely agree. The Last was what made me stop supporting canon NH in the first place.

 

They shouldn't just make the romance a subplot. They should fix a lot more things about the movie's actual plot. If I was at home right now, I would list these things down, but instead I'll talk about one thing they shouldn't have done:

 

Hinata's bullying scene existed not only to create that stupid red scarf metaphor, but also to highlight the Byakugan. If they wanted to give attention to the Byakugan they should scrap the scene entirely (seriously, trash that scarf metaphor) and replace it with an in-depth look at Kumo's attempted kidnapping of Hinata, which will not only give the audience an idea of how prized the doujutsu is, but will FINALLY explain how an ambassador from Kumo managed to infiltrate a clan compound full of ninjas who can see through walls. Then they should follow this flashback with an explanation of the different levels of Byakugan, contrasting it with the Uchiha's Sharingan. And finally they should talk about the Hyuuga clan in general, and their relationship to Hamura.

The scarf is just copying the idea of Kushina word about her red hair becoming red thread of fate between her and Minato, the thing that brought them together. SP use that formula using red scarf as thread of fate that bring NH together. You and we are all know how bad SP is when making/creating a plot story, all they can is copy/steal other story and convert it as their own.


Edited by Yyubie, 23 April 2016 - 02:02 AM.

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#42914 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:22 PM

Off topic but it's my birthday today.

509356167_759751.gif?4


#42915 rocci

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:24 PM

Off topic but it's my birthday today.

Happy bday.
Wish you luck in the coming year.

Oh and you have the same birthday with queen elizabeth.

#42916 LuckyChi7

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:31 PM

Off topic but it's my birthday today.

 

 

Happy Birthday man, enjoy it well and... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

0b0f9174-6a89-40bf-ad2e-7b9178044e39.jpg

 

HERE IS SOME MINT CHOCOLATE CHIP ICE CREAM CAKE :D 


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THAT'S WHAT HEROES DO, THEY SAVE PEOPLE!!


#42917 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:31 PM

Happy bday.
Wish you luck in the coming year.
Oh and you have the same birthday with queen elizabeth.

At least I don't share it with Hitler. He was born 100 years and one day before I was born.

509356167_759751.gif?4


#42918 Phantom_999

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 02:20 PM

Off topic but it's my birthday today.

 

What  do you mea!? that's important! Happy Birthday my man! :hi5:  :party:


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#42919 Advaith

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 02:29 PM

Off topic but it's my birthday today.

Happy birthday



#42920 LuckyChi7

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    HarLie (Haru x Elie)

    NaLu (Natsu x Lucy)


    Shicca (Shiki x Rebecca)

    JioRub (Jio x Ruby)

    TouKen (Ken Kaneki x Touka Kirishima)

    LuNa (Luffy x Nami)

    IzuOcha (Deku x Ochako)

    Kirisuna (Kirito x Asuna)

    Kataang (Aang x Katara)

    EreHisu (Eren x Historia)

    Astelle (Asta x Noelle)


    NaruSaku (Naruto x Sakura)

Posted 21 April 2016 - 05:32 PM

Oh man I feel kinda evil today and I like it,   basically someone was gushing over NaruHina and I'm like your a NaruHina fan too and he was like dude NaruHina for the win and gave me a high five.. This was where things got hillarious because he showed me  his favorite picture of them and I should him this: 

 

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Now before any one freaks out, this was a drawing I did 4 years ago around the time Road to Ninja was coming out, and like alot of us I was confident with Naruto would end up with Sakura. So with the idea of their being an alternated reality and how RTN Hinata was I was like yeah NaruSaku becomes canon in the real time line and MenmaHina becomes a thing in the Genjutsu World..  

 

 

 

Anyway getting to the point this guy's reaction was just pricless because he was like "HOW DARE YOU SHIP HIM WITH THAT WHORE!!"  and me just acting out the situation was like "It's still NaruHina."  and he was like "No that's an aggressive kitten right there, she's not the kind sweet hearted girl... get away from me." and man he broke down in tears going like "I can't believe I high-fived a fake NaruHina fan." and me still trying to act it out was like "I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.." and he was like "Leave just leave I never wanna see your face again."  and so I just walked away pretending to me a little sad and when I got away I just kinda laughed going like wow I can't believe that actually worked :D


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THAT'S WHAT HEROES DO, THEY SAVE PEOPLE!!





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