190 replies to this topic

[Nar123]

Yup, and who said that shonen can't have romance.
Kenshin and shaman king have great romantic subplot.
And they're published in wsj.

iirc Ichigo 100% is a shounen as well and romance was the main focus, IMO it was also very well executed there

The author even made a NS cover

https://encrypted-tb...Q_lP3VVTllcepXp

Goes to show which pairing we would've had as the final one if we had someone more competent making and developing Naruto

Edited by Nar123, 23 February 2016 - 12:15 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Basically, Kishi can only know the message but not back it up with it. It's like teaching everyone that people can be forgiven and show them an example of a killer killing all this man's loved ones and the man just forgives him. I don't think Kishi knows how to back it up, is what I'm saying.

[Nar123]

Exactly, his message could be valid but he failed in the execution

We had something awful like mass murderer Obito being forgiven due to his past dream and not ever being accounted for his wrong doings

We have Orochimaru that is still alive and active after all the evil and grief he caused and so on

Edited by Nar123, 23 February 2016 - 12:24 PM.

[NeonRanger]

I think everything went to kitten because we have a kitten fandom. I never had any issues with the Death Note, FMA, SNK, fandom, and look at the quality writing we received. Yet for Bleach, Kubo deleted his Twitter because of harassment from hurt character fans and some pairing fans that wanted more shipping moments. Then you have than you have Naruto were villains who don't deserve it receive more sympathy than actual heroes. I like Itachi, but holy crap the apologists are something, especially when you voice an opinion that isn't accepted by majority. And Sakura is pretty much the first character whose hate was large enough to decide her overall faith during the second half of part 2. I went to NF and looked at a thread about which character should been removed from the manga, and every other person who commented choose Sakura.

 

Than you have the pairing wars and so far this is the worst pairing war I have ever been in and made me decide to not get myself too involved in future fandoms.

 

I personally feel that if you have a kitten, spoiled fandom you will get kitten quality results produced. And it's worse when you own editors also have bad taste as well. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

Exactly, his message could be valid but he failed in the execution

We had something awful like mass murderer Obito being forgiven due to his past dream and not ever being accounted for his wrong doings

We have Orochimaru that is still alive and active after all the evil and grief he caused and so on

Orochimaru takes the cake.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Exactly, his message could be valid but he failed in the execution

We had something awful like mass murderer Obito being forgiven due to his past dream and not ever being accounted for his wrong doings

We have Orochimaru that is still alive and active after all the evil and grief he caused and so on

It's like, for Kishi, "forgiveness" (in Naruto or any pretty violent world) automatically means "not allowed to kill" or something.

You can forgive someone, but still want them dead. At the very least still hold them responsible for all the wrongs they did.

The way Kishi did things would be like if Anakin/Darth Vader didn't die, Luke gets him off the Death Star, gets him (mostly) healed up (enough to not have to wear the suit anymore at least), he gets to be a real father to Luke, and he just joins the New Republic afterwards without being put on any sort of trial to answer for all the war crimes and crimes against humanity that he was part of ever since Episode III. He may have been "saved" from the Dark Side and forgiven by Luke, but he still paid the price for his actions with his death (aside from the whole prophecy stuff).

All Kishi's now-twisted message sends now is that as long as you and/or your family is rich, handsome, wealthy, powerful and/or influential,. you can get away with anything so long as you just say "sorry".

Or, to bring real life into it, the victims of Dylan Roof's shooting and racist atrocities forgave him, but that doesn't mean they want him to be let out of prison.

[Narufan85]

It's like, for Kishi, "forgiveness" (in Naruto or any pretty violent world) automatically means "not allowed to kill" or something.

You can forgive someone, but still want them dead. At the very least still hold them responsible for all the wrongs they did.

The way Kishi did things would be like if Anakin/Darth Vader didn't die, Luke gets him off the Death Star, gets him (mostly) healed up (enough to not have to wear the suit anymore at least), he gets to be a real father to Luke, and he just joins the New Republic afterwards without being put on any sort of trial to answer for all the war crimes and crimes against humanity that he was part of ever since Episode III. He may have been "saved" from the Dark Side and forgiven by Luke, but he still paid the price for his actions with his death (aside from the whole prophecy stuff).

All Kishi's now-twisted message sends now is that as long as you and/or your family is rich, handsome, wealthy, powerful and/or influential,. you can get away with anything so long as you just say "sorry".

Or, to bring real life into it, the victims of Dylan Roof's shooting and racist atrocities forgave him, but that doesn't mean they want him to be let out of prison.

 

I really find Kishi's tendency to let villains (and I'm including Sasuke here) off the hook to be very perplexing. So few characters do bad things and face any sort of repercussions. Heck, Sasuke is basically rewarded despite abandoning his village and doing awful stuff for the majority of Part II.

[rocci]

@halfdemoninuyasha
Your third paragraph practially explain obito.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

I really find Kishi's tendency to let villains (and I'm including Sasuke here) off the hook to be very perplexing. So few characters do bad things and face any sort of repercussions. Heck, Sasuke is basically rewarded despite abandoning his village and doing awful stuff for the majority of Part II.

Heck, even Suna didn't look like they faced any repercussions despite joining Oto in invading and trying to destroy Konoha during the Chunin Exams in part one, despite supposedly being allied with Konoha at the time, and technically assisted in Hiruzen's death as a result. Sure Orochimaru may have been impersonating their Kage, but IIRC, from the looks of things, the plans and agreements were made before Orochimaru killed him.

[db84x]

@ Nar123 & rocci

But their rank in fluctuate in ToC while Naruto is stable in upper rank until the end.

 

@ NeonRanger

That realty in manga or comic industry, in the end to made money you must follow the majority of audience.

Edited by db84x, 24 February 2016 - 11:28 AM.

[Catra]

orochimaru is monster incarnate. he makes obito aka mr issy fitty temper tantrum "idc anymore but not really. RIIIIN", the man who made tens of thousands of people and families suffer, look like some kindergartner who stole your apple juice by comparison. he's THAT guy. and he's alive and well having a nonchalant talk with the worlds worst scumbag hokage.

[Nar123]

@ Nar123 & rocci
But their rank in fluctuate in ToC while Naruto is stable in upper rank until the end.
 

Death note is a classic and SNK is the only competition OP has in Japan

Naruto's sales have been decreasing with the later arcs of the series to the point where OP easily surpassed it

Naruto is under these two series in both quality and popularity

[rocci]

Death note is a classic and SNK is the only competition OP has in Japan

Naruto's sales have been decreasing with the later arcs of the series to the point where OP easily surpassed it

Naruto is under these two series in both quality and popularity

I think what he mean Kenshin and shaman king.

Op always surpass naruto.

Yup snk is the only one who can challenge op.
Naruto days is long gone.

[BlackBird19]

@db84x

I wouldn't rely so much on the ToC poll, considering that it's not the entire fandom of a series voting in them. The only thing that matters is copies sold of that series. And Naruto's volume sale numbers took a considerable hit after the Pein arc.

[rocci]

@db84x
I wouldn't rely so much on the ToC poll, considering that it's not the entire fandom of a series voting in them. The only thing that matters is copies sold of that series. And Naruto's volume sale numbers took a considerable hit after the Pein arc.

It play a really big role, but not for a manga like naruto.
Naruto sales is already stable, it doesn't really goes up and down.
You can check the last six year of naruto sales if you have time.

[BlackBird19]

@rocci

I only said that because when you sell 4.2 million copies one year then 7.4 million copies two years later then 5.5 million it's last 2 years after that I'd call that fluctuating. And that's with a consistent 4-5 volumes a year.

[VanitasDS76491]

orochimaru is monster incarnate. he makes obito aka mr issy fitty temper tantrum "idc anymore but not really. RIIIIN", the man who made tens of thousands of people and families suffer, look like some kindergartner who stole your apple juice by comparison. he's THAT guy. and he's alive and well having a nonchalant talk with the worlds worst scumbag hokage.

Hinata and Sasuke and Naruto are more of a monster than modern Patrick from SpongeBob and Freddy Krueger and that's saying something that those three are more monsters than Freddy Krueger. 

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Hinata and Sasuke and Naruto are more of a monster than modern Patrick from SpongeBob and Freddy Krueger and that's saying something that those three are more monsters than Freddy Krueger. 

Yeah, in terms of character, Orochimaru has been mostly consistent and not compromising what he came to want or believe in...and he got exactly what he wanted...immortality...

[db84x]

@ Nar123

Do you have verified link to support your claim ?

 

@ BlackBird19

ToC isn't perfect but that how manga industry work (especially in shonen).

 

@ rocci

Kishi just want Naruto end so he can goes honeymoon.

[Nar123]

Death note is widly popular and a classic, it even has a live action TV adaptation plus a couple of live action moves

You can find SNK numbers in any sold manga volume ranking, it's the only series that still manages to get close to OP numbers

I'm surprised you don't know about these two series, have you been living under a bubble where "Naruto is the most popular and best shonen of all time" all this time?

Well, come back to reality