749 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Not going to lie, but I was close to say I agree in a heartbeat because well, Hinata is so one dimensional, it's hard to call her a character. I have no idea why (well maybe I do) Kishi dropped her to be that kind of character. So maybe if you don't consider her as a character for being a wood, then I guess you can say you don't agree. Otherwise, agree. The bad perks can bring the character to the negative rating more so than N/A.

Next one is coming.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Statement: This series came in a great time with Studio Pierrot being "decent" at the start of adaptation, certain areas (USA) in need of anime to be seen as Dragon Ball Next, and the age of Internet began to grow into a lifestyle (example: BitTorrent). Have it arrive now, it could be deemed as a another series.

Agree or disagree?

[VanitasDS76491]

Statement: Disregard the title position such as heroine and amount of time, the overall shows that Hinata is a "better" character than Sakura. Think carefully and address why.

Agree or disagree?

No kittening way is Hinata better than Sakura. Why because Sakura is not useless and Sakura has feats and has/had development. Sakura is more useful than Hinata cause really what did Hinata really do in the series?

 

[Nar123]

Statement: This series came in a great time with Studio Pierrot being "decent" at the start of adaptation, certain areas (USA) in need of anime to be seen as Dragon Ball Next, and the age of Internet began to grow into a lifestyle (example: BitTorrent). Have it arrive now, it could be deemed as a another series.

Agree or disagree?

Agreed

Naruto arrived at a right time, where it was able to build a following together with the other members of the big 3, if it came out right now it wouldn't be nearly as sucessful

[rocci]

@slyninjaknight
In the manga, Hinata never get picked up over her eyes.

Hinata doesn't have the same conflict over power. Her uselessness tie with naruto. Sakura represent human weakness like lee.
Both of them are women so in kishi book their only story is romance.

Only sakura who is underdeveloped, Hinata doesn't have one to begin.

[rocci]

@touken
One dimensional character is still a character.
The problem happen when a one dimensional character wank to be a complex character let alone the best one.

Agree.

Naruto is epitome of luck.

[TouKen4Life3g]

@touken
One dimensional character is still a character.
The problem happen when a one dimensional character wank to be a complex character let alone the best one.

Agree.

Naruto is epitome of luck.

Yeah, I know. It just sad that only way Hinata to be better is to lower others like a lot. Sakura is one.

[Namikaze Clan]

Statement: This series came in a great time with Studio Pierrot being "decent" at the start of adaptation, certain areas (USA) in need of anime to be seen as Dragon Ball Next, and the age of Internet began to grow into a lifestyle (example: BitTorrent). Have it arrive now, it could be deemed as a another series.

Agree or disagree?

Agree.

 

Had it came out now, it probably would have a decent following but nowhere near as large as is does now or Bleach/One Piece.  That doesn't say anything about the quality of course

[SlyNinjaKnight]

@slyninjaknight
In the manga, Hinata never get picked up over her eyes.

Hinata doesn't have the same conflict over power. Her uselessness tie with naruto. Sakura represent human weakness like lee.
Both of them are women so in kishi book their only story is romance.

Only sakura who is underdeveloped, Hinata doesn't have one to begin.

 

I know in the manga Hinata isn't picked on due to her eyes but since Kishi has stated that Naruto: The Last is considered canon, there are 'flashbacks' showing that Hinata was picked on because of her eyes (as a pathetic and cheap way to balance the scales between Sakura and Hinata).

 

You are right that Sakura is underdeveloped but so is Hinata, they both had potential to be very good characters. The problem is, Sakura was developed up the mountain and then torn down while Hinata never left base camp at all. 

[tricksie]

I think we'd first have to agree on what constitutes a "better" character. Without that, "better" will tend to be whoever the poster preferred.

 

Though, Sakura crashed and burned in 693, I'd go with Sakura. Sakura is, or rather was, a better defined character. She had desires and goals beyond "be with Sasuke." She was allowed to do thing that went beyond "be with Sasuke." Narutally, as the original heroine those things got flesh out more, but Hinata's never it got defined. What did Hinata want to do besides be with Naruto? Hinata's character has no separate existence outside of Naruto and is really limited because of it.

The other thing about Sakura's character within the story that makes her more of a heroine (or "better") than Hinata is how their characters are set up.

 

Sakura is the rags-to-riches story of success despite not having a family jutsu technique or hidden super strength. Sakura's story arc follows her getting stronger of her own accord, till she's able to stand beside them and be just as powerful. In that sense, she's surpassed Tsunade, who inherited jutsus/power from her family and had a teacher who spend time on her as well as Jiraiya and Orochimaru.

 

HOWEVER, in Hinata's storyline, her 'high-born' upbringing and natural abilities have to be completely ignored to make her a more sympathetic character. Comparing her to Sakura, Hinata should have been on par with Sasuke in her importance and status in the village — she is the 'princess,' she is a ninja with enough talent to get her through her classes and the competitions. But her motivation for everything is Naruto. Not her clan or her village or her teacher or anyone else who's elevated her to her status as 'byakugan princess.' It is a steady march to the end of the story, with Hinata openly declaring at the end that everything is for him. Even Neji's death. It's a downward spiral instead of a story arc.

 

At the end of the series, when Hinata should have taken her place at the head of her clan, there's no mention of it at all. Hinata's role as stalker has been fulfilled and the rest is expected to be ignored by the audience. 

 

So that right there shows me that Sakura is a better developed character than Hinata. In the end, we don't know Sakura's state either. But she can choose whether to work or not. Hinata doesn't have that luxury as clan head, which was the whole point of suspense of her earlier story. So in the end to have her princess upbringing completely sidelined so she can be Naruto's lap dog shows how Hinata's story was narrowed down to one feature — worshipping Naruto — even as she had more scenes in the manga and even a movie about her.

 

Hmm, interesting question.

 

Sakura is still the better character because as Nate pointed out, she had goals and motives outside of a love interest.  Though I felt that Hinata had a more interesting backstory in regards to her conflict with her father and the Hyuga clan.

 

Despite everything that happened, Hinata never stole Sakura`s heroine status despite what some say.  She was still the most important female lead all the way till the end despite not ending up with Naruto. 

You know, I don't think either one ended up as a heroine, unfortunately. I think the story ended without a heroine. (And really, the story ended without it's hero too. Naruto got shafted just as much as Sakura did.)

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well I agree on the popularity. Fun fact: one time Naruto was listed in top 10 sellers alone. Basically all of them listed under Naruto. Yeah...

Next...

[TouKen4Life3g]

Statement: In the end, Hagoromo and his relative were a mistake.

Agree or disagree?

[Namikaze Clan]

Statement: In the end, Hagoromo and his relative were a mistake.

Agree or disagree?

I disagree.

I liked the mythology that The Sage and his family brought to the series. The origin of Chakra and the Otsutsuki clan were good additions. The problem is that it should have stayed in the background instead of being crammed into the final battle. Kaguya never should have been the final antagonist, she was only a deus ex machina to defeat Madara

[TouKen4Life3g]

I disagree.

I liked the mythology that The Sage and his family brought to the series. The origin of Chakra and the Otsutsuki clan were good additions. The problem is that it should have stayed in the background instead of being crammed into the final battle. Kaguya never should have been the final antagonist, she was only a deus ex machina to defeat Madara

That's still a mistake but I get what you mean. I agree with them being remained as backstory, but not be part of the story where it already has "ninja system is corrupted."

[Bail o' Lies]

The other thing about Sakura's character within the story that makes her more of a heroine (or "better") than Hinata is how their characters are set up.

 

Sakura is the rags-to-riches story of success despite not having a family jutsu technique or hidden super strength. Sakura's story arc follows her getting stronger of her own accord, till she's able to stand beside them and be just as powerful. In that sense, she's surpassed Tsunade, who inherited jutsus/power from her family and had a teacher who spend time on her as well as Jiraiya and Orochimaru.

 

HOWEVER, in Hinata's storyline, her 'high-born' upbringing and natural abilities have to be completely ignored to make her a more sympathetic character. Comparing her to Sakura, Hinata should have been on par with Sasuke in her importance and status in the village — she is the 'princess,' she is a ninja with enough talent to get her through her classes and the competitions. But her motivation for everything is Naruto. Not her clan or her village or her teacher or anyone else who's elevated her to her status as 'byakugan princess.' It is a steady march to the end of the story, with Hinata openly declaring at the end that everything is for him. Even Neji's death. It's a downward spiral instead of a story arc.

 

At the end of the series, when Hinata should have taken her place at the head of her clan, there's no mention of it at all. Hinata's role as stalker has been fulfilled and the rest is expected to be ignored by the audience. 

 

So that right there shows me that Sakura is a better developed character than Hinata. In the end, we don't know Sakura's state either. But she can choose whether to work or not. Hinata doesn't have that luxury as clan head, which was the whole point of suspense of her earlier story. So in the end to have her princess upbringing completely sidelined so she can be Naruto's lap dog shows how Hinata's story was narrowed down to one feature — worshipping Naruto — even as she had more scenes in the manga and even a movie about her.

 

You know, I don't think either one ended up as a heroine, unfortunately. I think the story ended without a heroine. (And really, the story ended without it's hero too. Naruto got shafted just as much as Sakura did.)

Hinata is not the clan head. She is Hinata Uzumaki now. She has married into the Uzumaki family/clan. She is no longer Hinata Hyuuga. She was revoked of the right to become clan head of the Hyuuga clan. It's either still her father or her sister that are clan head. Whenever a patriarch of a clan has only daughters as children they normally either marry their eldest to a distant cousin or adopted their husband into the clan. To keep thing in the family. Example both Sasuke and Hinata both parents are from the same clan. Naruto is still an Uzumaki as are his kids and his wife. They are not Hyuuga by inheritance laws. They are Uzumaki, not Hyuuga.

 

If were going down that road Hinata is a more appealing spouse because she a daughter of a clan head from an ancient clan. That's a lot of prestige and pedigree to give your future kids. Sakura on the other hand is for a clan we know nothing about and might as well be new blood/money. Not much prestige or pedigree to give to your kids. That as well as her breast, her absolute obedience, and devotion to Naruto is what is appealing to her supporters.

 

As for heroine Hinata is the worst heroine if you actually look at her story. "Oh poor me. I'm the heiress to the richest and most powerful clan in the village. I was born with not a silver, but a golden spoon in my mouth. I'm the one percent of the one percent of the one percent! Pity and love me everyone because I'm shy and can't do anything because I don't put any effort into anything or even try. I just give up all the time. So my younger sister and my cousin who is of a side branch therefor a lesser creature then me are stronger then me because they actually train. All I do is fantasize about a guy I like. While pitying myself because I never talk to him ever. Despite him being alone for his entire life and could use a friend. I just watch him from a far watch him be lonely and miserable because it give me such great inspiration! To do nothing! I get everything I ever wanted in the end without you ever actually seeing my character develop or even try to accomplish anything! No seriously my character is completely flat with no growth in personality. Thought my breast most certainly did grow and their my best feature. I start out a shy girl that only does something to get her crush to notice her and end with people forcing my crush to marry me."

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 20 February 2016 - 12:48 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Statement: In the end, Hagoromo and his relative were a mistake.

Agree or disagree?

The sage was fine. His mother was fine. But the brother was only added to make the last even the slightest bit connected to the manga.

[rocci]

Statement: In the end, Hagoromo and his relative were a mistake.

Agree or disagree?

I agree, it's a last cop out to make hyuga relevant and to get rid of madara.

[milan kyuubi]

Statement: In the end, Hagoromo and his relative were a mistake.

Agree or disagree?

 

Hagoromo was fine. While he was only a legend/myth! We didn't even need to know his name. We didn't need to see him. Sometimes mystery is much better choice! Kaguya and the brother (and the rest of their family) were completely unnecessary. They brought nothing to the story. And actually succeed in annihilating many fans! So SOSP was fine the way he was when Jiraiya spoke of rinnegan and him. Anything adding on it later on was unnecessary!

[Advaith]

Statement: In the end, Hagoromo and his relative were a mistake.

Agree or disagree?

 

Agree

 

There was no need to show him,and that relative was for the last BS movie.To make hyuga relevant and to get rid of madara.

 

 

Like Milan said sometimes mystery is the better choice.I find that mystery is always the best choice,some things should stay as a mystery or legend.

[Nar123]

Statement: In the end, Hagoromo and his relative were a mistake.

Agree or disagree?

Kinda disagree, kind of agree

Hagoromo wasn't a mistake, his lore and story were pretty interesting, however Kaguya and Hamura were pointless additions

Kaguya was there to act as Deus Ex and be the worst villain in the franchise, Hamura was there as a plot device to make the Hyuuga relevant again

Toneri and the two villains I can't bother to remember the name from the Bolt movie were also pointless additions and compete with Kaguya for worse villain, Toneri basically redefined what pathetic means in the series

The idea of using Asura and Indra in that reincarnation plot device was also pretty stupid and undermined one of the main themes of the series

So yeah, the sage of six paths concept was actually cool and interesting before he showed himself up and expanded on his family