54175 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

You don't rush a fight that get hype for 70% of the manga for freaking 3 chapters worth fight, if not less.

 

Also, Sasuke's excuse for the fight was weak; it was just him trying to make himself feel better more than to really make real change, considering he was spitting on Itachi's memory... AGAIN.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Tbh, That's stupid writing from kishi.
Zetsu is uber weak, can't cast ninjutsu, and the only offensive ability is mimic appearance.
The only powerful ninja is obito and sasuke. Kisame is dead meat.
There's no way obito could win the war even if naruto Kyubi mode doesn't have evil detection to counter zetsu.
And how could the ninja lose half of their army In a day?

If he want to make a war, make it like this :
Naruto + five big village vs sasuke + small villages.

The only purpose the white Zetsu army served was to have a bunch of "non-living" cannonfodder for Naruto and co. to kill and look cool doing so, but without having to actually kill anyone and deal with the repercussions (guilt, PTSD, etc.) that the previous generation (still) dealt with, thus allowing them to "go through war", but not actually "experience" war, getting stronger while still being "innocent" like that and that's actually been very prevalent throughout the entire manga - Naruto and co. are almost never the ones who actually kill anyone. They either get TnJ'ed, killed by someone else, kill themselves, or are merely sealed (even in the fillers).

Haku - Killed by Kakashi / killed himself (given he used himself as a shield for Zabuza)
Zabuza - Killed by so many injuries from Gato's goons

Orochimaru - Escapes

Zaku - Killed by Gaara

Yoroi - Killed by Orochimaru (or was it the other way around with Zaku and Yoroi? I forget XD)

Kin - Killed by Orochimaru

Temari - Let go

Kankuro - Let go
Gaara - TnJ'ed / let go / killed by Akatsuki

Jirobo - Killed by Chouji

Kidomaru - Killed by Neji

Tayuya - Killed by Temari

Sakon/Ukon - Killed by Kankuro

Kimimaro - Illness
Sasuke - Escapes / Is pardoned

Sasori - Killed by Chiyo
Deidara - Kills himself
Kakuzu - Killed by Kakashi
Hidan - Was immortal, but to say Shikamaru killed him by keeping him buried and unable to maintain his immortality with his Jashin rituals would be weak at best.
Itachi - Illness / essentially killed himself

Nagato - Killed himself

Konan - Killed by Obito
Kisame - Killed himself

Kabuto - Escapes / let go

Obito - Killed by Kakashi / Madara / himself
Madara - Killed by Black Zetsu
Kaguya - Sealed

[rocci]

@bryon
Kishi seem like he doesn't have any idea how to do with sasuke to the point he look like the hero of the series. Itachi is the Mary Sue of naruto more than minato, who can do no wrong, can't defeat, and wank to thedeath.

@halfdemon
I agree with zetsu part, but kishi could buff them so they would be more "threatening".
Kishi could use the knock up system if he/wsj doesn't want naruto, sakura, or sasuke to be a killer. He doesn't and we got lack of fighting that make naruto weak as kitten in the beginning of part 2 and make sakura useless.
Knock up system is one of the reason why the tournament arc aka chunin exam arc is the most favorite arc of naruto by its fan.

Kaguya is the one who killed obito.

Edited by rocci, 16 January 2016 - 09:53 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

@bryon
Kishi seem like he doesn't have any idea how to do with sasuke to the point he look like the hero of the series. Itachi is the Mary Sue of naruto more than minato, who can do no wrong, can't defeat, and wank to thedeath.

@halfdemon
I agree with zetsu part, but kishi could buff them so they would be more "threatening".
Kishi could use the knock up system if he/wsj doesn't want naruto, sakura, or sasuke to be a killer. He doesn't and we got lack of fighting that make naruto weak as kitten in the beginning of part 2 and make sakura useless.
Knock up system is one of the reason why the tournament arc aka chunin exam arc is the most favorite arc of naruto by its fan.

Kaguya is the one who killed obito.

Well, Kishi did say he didn't know what to do with Sasuke or rather find it frustrating to keep up with him. Well, you're the writer, you should have planned it better. It's not DB, where every saga for the most part can end and it will be "fine". Naruto kept bridging its story and many of them doesn't match with the rest.

[Emb3rs]

Im curious as to why Kishimoto isnt coming out with a proper " yeah i might have F*d up with pairings and some plot holes, and character developments etc" like it wont make him look any worse then he does already. In fact this would spark up some interest in a rewrite manga or alternate version and even give more interest into Boruto. J K Rowling didnt have to do it considering her final ships werent too conroversial and yet she admitted how weird the pairings were, hell even Emma Watson agreed.

 

My reason for me wanting this, although very mean, is because i want those gullible snobs who talk about Naruto like its a perfect creation not to be talked bad about to realize that it truly was bad nearing the end. And although i hate the final ships i do want to forget this ever happened and continue on to Boruto with some confirmation by Kishi that he wont BS his way through more bad writing.

 

I bet he could even squeeze in some non canon or canon, if he chooses to correct his wrongs, movies into this " revelation."

 

Its kinda weird but i guess when you go to bed thinking hard on something you most likely end up dreaming up random things about the subject. Early on back in like November i believe, I couldnt shake the bad Naruto left in my head and one day i went to bed with Narutos ending in mind. I giggled a bit when i woke up because i was dreaming about an alternate end to Naruto. I didnt have many facts about some of the more minor things in the story so i guess my brain made them up but, i imagined Sasuke left Konoha and rarely showed to support Naruto when he needed it, Hinata was dead for some reason, unfortunate because i do like her character somewhat, and Naruto had one kid with Hinata, a girl, but remarried Sakura. Just something random af but it made me giggle that i had imagined something like that no thanks to how much i disagreed with Narutos ending.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

What do we want Kishi to do?

[Catra]

nothing much he can do. most thing he can is upright apologize. retconning, rewriting or giving a different ending, they wont cut it. like many have said; it wouldn't be enough and would just make the other side angry. he's stuck in a no win situation. the damage has been done, all we've got are fanfiction/fanart now.

[Emb3rs]

nothing much he can do. most thing he can is upright apologize. retconning, rewriting or giving a different ending, they wont cut it. like many have said; it wouldn't be enough and would just make the other side angry. he's stuck in a no win situation. the damage has been done, all we've got are fanfiction/fanart now.

 

I hate to admit it but that's unfortunately what its come down to. Its a no win scenario, but he can at least wipe some of that bad if he comes out and apologizes or even admits his wrong doing to his fans. Not just a run around like when he admitted to being bad at romance yet never admits his canon couples were poorly written, even going as far as to acting like the " red herring" was misunderstood and we the fans are just reading it wrong.

[NeonRanger]

Kishi works under Shueisha; he will not make an alt ending unless Shueisha believes that this would make them profit. He might be the creator of Naruto, but he is not in charge of the franchise. SP has some control of the Naruto anime, for example. But their control is also based on Shueisha and Kishi. 

 

Apologizing won't come until after Naruto is done. And I'm taking about the franchise. He can never wipe off the bad because if he apologize, he also has to face NH/SS shippers who bought everything after the ending. Whether we like it or not NH is too popular and rabid enough to get Kishi's attention, and for all we know they might force Kishi to take back his apology, and it will just be circles we are going around.  

 

The apology is the last thing. We won't ever know if the apology is sincere of not, no matter how believable, because that could just be the reason to gain more money. And I saw on Tumblr a good amount of NS/Anti shippers willing to forgive Kishi for everything after ch. 1 of Gaiden if SS became SK or they at least went through a divorce,  some even had hope that NS would be canon. I didn't care but they fact that a lot of people can be very gullible is disappointing. It's not a bad thing, and I like that they carry hope, but Kishi apologizing will just make it worse, because like I said, it might be just to make extra money.

 

Either/or it's just a lose-lose situation regardless; he can apologize, but ch. 700 will still exist, people bought it and no recognize it as the official Naruto ending. We would still have rabid fans denying it like they did for all other interviews or putting us on the blame. And the risk that he would just take back his apology by NH fans; they were pretty much loud enough to get his attention, they won;t be afriad to speak up again. 

 

The only way it would be a somewhat sincere apology is when Naruto is over and there's nothing left selling. It's not making money so there's no point in not telling the truth. 

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

NH and SS are minority. Even the Japanese general fans thought NS so post to be end game even though they don't care about the pairings. That's how much respect NS had in Japan.

[NeonRanger]

NH and SS are minority. Even the Japanese general fans thought NS so post to be end game even though they don't care about the pairings. That's how much respect NS had in Japan.

 

No SNS had the most respect in Japan, that why the Bolt movie was successful. SNS is one of the top common ships in Japan,  next to England x Japan (Hetalia), UsUK (Hetalia) and Shizaya (Durarara). When it come to Naruto ships,  m/m slash are the most popular. KakaIru along with SasuNaru are the top popular.

 

Here:  

 

https://www.b2-web-p...gin/login/input

 

The ID is navio and the password is navio0124 

 

Naruto is in the third column, forth row. There are other anime/ manga as well if you want to look at some of the doujinshi circle's work and buy them. 

 

This is the upcoming circles in  upcoming anime/manga cons in Japan. Naruto con in Japan is coming in February. There is 466 doujinshi circles participating in the event. How many doujinshi circles there are determines how popular the ship is in Japan. And by that I mean what sells the most. Not all are shippers.

 

 

https://www.b2-web-p...t=????2

 

 

These are all the doujinshi circles participating in the event: SNS had more than 80 people participating, SS is second with over 70, and KakaIru has more than 40, and then other with around 20-30, are mainly Naruto yaoi ships like ItaSasu, ItaNaru, etc. ShikaTema had about 15. NaruSaku and NaruHina are the two ships with less than 15 circles. 

 

SasuSaku are the only hetero ship that surpasses or are equal to the the yaoi Naruto ships like SNS. NS was the second most popular pairing after SS, and Japanese were aware that it might be canon because of Sasuke, but it did not stop SS from being popular. Just like KakaIru; they never meet at all, but it's the most popular pairing in Naruto right after SNS. NS was going to happen, but the Japanese preferred to ship SS.

 

Japanese were more disappointed (when it comes to shipping, not plot) in NH. Not mad, but they were surprised that Hinata was that important enough to paired with the hero. Junko even said she was surprised and believed that Naruto could have been like Jiraiya is with Tsunade. They are pretty much aware in how much Hinata is irrelevant in Naruto compared to the West.   

 

Worldwide, NS is the minority compared to NH/SS/SNS (when it comes to the big four it's SNS, SS, NH, NS). NS is popular in Japan and extremely popular Indonesia (my friends have relatives that go to an NS convention almost every other month, plus they sell more NS merchandise). But when it comes to the US, NH/SS is the most popular ships there. 

 

If Kishi was pressured to put out a canon couple, it would have been NH/SS. 

 

JP doesn't care about ships but SNS/SS/NS/Team 7 are popular. In the West, specifically in America where Naruto sells the most, it's NH/SS. Which is why Kishi took NH/SS. Sakura was well received in Japan, but hated in the West; Hinata is likable in Japan (voice actor/fanboys/SP) , and adored in the West (fanboys/girls). NH/SS were the less risky, money wise. NS might make sense in the plot, but not enough money to go with the franchise.  With NS, you lose the NH/Hinata wankers, and SS. SK is not known well enough in Japan or worldwide, and SNS is here regardless of what's canon (some have left because they wanted an open ending). With NH/SS/ and ST, you still have a loyal audience in the West (look how The Last out sold RtN in America), JP is disappointed but they still have SNS/SS, and SNS is here regardless, but because of the SNS fight. NH/SS are the choices because there re more people who support it than NS/SK. If you look at Fanfiction and Art being posted daily the majority are NH. And it the end it was a good choice, money wise. Gaiden sold over a million copies, Boruto was a success with SNS, and The Last was a success internationally. NS is popular in Japan so they could sell NS family (or family drama) and they can still pull off SNS movie, but they won't have as much international audience as compared to SS/NH, and Naruto became well known because of the international audience. 

 

We are popular in Japan, but not worldwide. SS/NH was good enough to keep the pairing fans because the make the majority, which are a good chunk of the Naruto fandom.

 

Of course there are neutrals and people who cared for plot, but if they really cared about the plot instead of their faves Naruto would not be still selling right now.  

Edited by NeonRanger, 18 January 2016 - 12:58 AM.

[LuckyChi7]

 

No SNS had the most respect in Japan, that why the Bolt movie was successful. SNS is one of the top common ships in Japan,  next to England x Japan (Hetalia), UsUK (Hetalia) and Shizaya (Durarara). When it come to Naruto ships,  m/m slash are the most popular. KakaIru along with SasuNaru are the top popular.

 

Here:  

 

https://www.b2-web-p...gin/login/input

 

The ID is navio and the password is navio0124 

 

Naruto is in the third column, forth row. There are other anime/ manga as well if you want to look at some of the doujinshi circle's work and buy them. 

 

This is the upcoming circles in  upcoming anime/manga cons in Japan. Naruto con in Japan is coming in February. There is 466 doujinshi circles participating in the event. How many doujinshi circles there are determines how popular the ship is in Japan. And by that I mean what sells the most. Not all are shippers.

 

 

https://www.b2-web-p...t=????2

 

 

These are all the doujinshi circles participating in the event: SNS had more than 80 people participating, SS is second with over 70, and KakaIru has more than 40, and then other with around 20-30, are mainly Naruto yaoi ships like ItaSasu, ItaNaru, etc. ShikaTema had about 15. NaruSaku and NaruHina are the two ships with less than 15 circles. 

 

SasuSaku are the only hetero ship that surpasses or are equal to the the yaoi Naruto ships like SNS. NS was the second most popular pairing after SS, and Japanese were aware that it might be canon because of Sasuke, but it did not stop SS from being popular. Just like KakaIru; they never meet at all, but it's the most popular pairing in Naruto right after SNS. NS was going to happen, but the Japanese preferred to ship SS.

 

Japanese were more disappointed (when it comes to shipping, not plot) in NH. Not mad, but they were surprised that Hinata was that important enough to paired with the hero. Junko even said she was surprised and believed that Naruto could have been like Jiraiya is with Tsunade. They are pretty much aware in how much Hinata is irrelevant in Naruto compared to the West.   

 

Worldwide, NS is the minority compared to NH/SS/SNS (when it comes to the big four it's SNS, SS, NH, NS). NS is popular in Japan and extremely popular Indonesia (my friends have relatives that go to an NS convention almost every other month, plus they sell more NS merchandise). But when it comes to the US, NH/SS is the most popular ships there. 

 

If Kishi was pressured to put out a canon couple, it would have been NH/SS. 

 

JP doesn't care about ships but SNS/SS/NS/Team 7 are popular. In the West, specifically in America where Naruto sells the most, it's NH/SS. Which is why Kishi took NH/SS. Sakura was well received in Japan, but hated in the West; Hinata is likable in Japan (voice actor/fanboys/SP) , and adored in the West (fanboys/girls). NH/SS were the less risky, money wise. NS might make sense in the plot, but not enough money to go with the franchise.  With NS, you lose the NH/Hinata wankers, and SS. SK is not known well enough in Japan or worldwide, and SNS is here regardless of what's canon (some have left because they wanted an open ending). With NH/SS/ and ST, you still have a loyal audience in the West (look how The Last out sold RtN in America), JP is disappointed but they still have SNS/SS, and SNS is here regardless, but because of the SNS fight. NH/SS are the choices because there re more people who support it than NS/SK. If you look at Fanfiction and Art being posted daily the majority are NH. And it the end it was a good choice, money wise. Gaiden sold over a million copies, Boruto was a success with SNS, and The Last was a success internationally. NS is popular in Japan so they could sell NS family (or family drama) and they can still pull off SNS movie, but they won't have as much international audience as compared to SS/NH, and Naruto became well known because of the international audience. 

 

We are popular in Japan, but not worldwide. SS/NH was good enough to keep the pairing fans because the make the majority, which are a good chunk of the Naruto fandom.

 

Of course there are neutrals and people who cared for plot, but if they really cared about the plot instead of their faves Naruto would not be still selling right now.  

 

 

I hate to admit it, but you do have a point.  Things you brought up were pretty informative looking at it from a business standpoint which is unfortunate, and that is something I wanna parallel that particular topic with novels  (young adult, romance, sci-fi, mystery, etc.) which is something that really sparked in idea in my head. Alright so lets say that Naruto was never an manga or anime (which gave the franchise it's world recognition), but consider lets consider that it was written in the USA (not japan) as a series of books. So It's originated in the USA, but the story has a total Japanese background since it deals with ninjas, martial arts, etc.  I understand some of you might be thinking that Naruto probably wouldn't be known worldwide or recognition that it does now, and I don't necessarily think that is true.  Lets take a look at successful book series like Harry Potter,  Percy Jackson, The Immortal Instruments,  Twilight, The Hunger Games, Divergent Trilogy, etc.  Those series are really successful not just because of the movie adaptations (okay sure City of Bones, and Percy Jackson are huge duds) but the word that spreads from person to person.     A good example I can bring up is Percy Jackson: The Lighting Thief,  I had no idea what that series was about until I went over to my cousin's (not Ria)  and I just saw her reading it.  Funny story is I never gave a sh it about reading books it was a huge waste I thought, but my cousin really convinced me to give it a try and see how it works.  So I'm glad that was the case cause I don't think I'd ever get into reading if it wasn't for that.  Okay now getting to the point,  i bought my own copy of the book and took it to school one  day and a classmate of mine (now really best friend) was like "OMG you're reading that book, what part are you on?".  Once again you may be saying,  Get to the point Lucky Chi.   Fine.... We'll do it your way (hope no one takes that sentence as an insult).  

 

Alright so seeing how things went with me and Percy Jackson;  Lets say that Naruto was put in that same situation where you don't really know anything about it, and you see it laying on a book shelf.  I bet you somebody who's read the book will instantly recognize it and start having a conversation and then you tell other people about and they 'll tell their friends about it.Eventually that would give the novel a lot of recognition and a fanbase would be built around the Naruto Book Series.  I don't necessarily believe the pairings would be the talk of the franchise it would be the direction of the story.  Sakura and Hinata I believe as characters in a novel would probably be handled very differently from the novel. Sakura would probably be the character that gets appreciated by the fans and I don't think Hinata would've gotten the same attention she got from the anime and manga. Hell even Sasuke's character would've been handled much differently then the anime and the manga as far as the audience goes. There wouldn't really be any pandering from the fans, it would be what the writer believes. Actually I would go out of my way to say that as novels, Naruto would probably be a trilogy.

 

The First  would definitely be Part 1 without and doubt while Books 2 and 3 would be Part 2 of the series.  

 

 

Now as far as Titles for The Books go: 

 

Book 1: The Demon Fox Shinobi (same plot as Part 1 with some adjustments made) 

 

Book 2:  The Grasp of Pain (Same plot as Part 2 (up to Pain Invasion Arc ) 

 

Book 3:  The Semblance World (Follow a different plot line from the second half of Part 2) 

 

 

 

If you guys want me to elaborate more on my ideas of visualizing Naruto as a Book Series rather a manga, then let me know and I'll continue.  Though what do you guys think if Naruto was known a series of Books made in the US instead of a really popular anime/manga?

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

 

No SNS had the most respect in Japan, that why the Bolt movie was successful. SNS is one of the top common ships in Japan,  next to England x Japan (Hetalia), UsUK (Hetalia) and Shizaya (Durarara). When it come to Naruto ships,  m/m slash are the most popular. KakaIru along with SasuNaru are the top popular.

 

Here:  

 

https://www.b2-web-p...gin/login/input

 

The ID is navio and the password is navio0124 

 

Naruto is in the third column, forth row. There are other anime/ manga as well if you want to look at some of the doujinshi circle's work and buy them. 

 

This is the upcoming circles in  upcoming anime/manga cons in Japan. Naruto con in Japan is coming in February. There is 466 doujinshi circles participating in the event. How many doujinshi circles there are determines how popular the ship is in Japan. And by that I mean what sells the most. Not all are shippers.

 

 

https://www.b2-web-p...t=????2

 

 

These are all the doujinshi circles participating in the event: SNS had more than 80 people participating, SS is second with over 70, and KakaIru has more than 40, and then other with around 20-30, are mainly Naruto yaoi ships like ItaSasu, ItaNaru, etc. ShikaTema had about 15. NaruSaku and NaruHina are the two ships with less than 15 circles. 

 

SasuSaku are the only hetero ship that surpasses or are equal to the the yaoi Naruto ships like SNS. NS was the second most popular pairing after SS, and Japanese were aware that it might be canon because of Sasuke, but it did not stop SS from being popular. Just like KakaIru; they never meet at all, but it's the most popular pairing in Naruto right after SNS. NS was going to happen, but the Japanese preferred to ship SS.

 

Japanese were more disappointed (when it comes to shipping, not plot) in NH. Not mad, but they were surprised that Hinata was that important enough to paired with the hero. Junko even said she was surprised and believed that Naruto could have been like Jiraiya is with Tsunade. They are pretty much aware in how much Hinata is irrelevant in Naruto compared to the West.   

 

Worldwide, NS is the minority compared to NH/SS/SNS (when it comes to the big four it's SNS, SS, NH, NS). NS is popular in Japan and extremely popular Indonesia (my friends have relatives that go to an NS convention almost every other month, plus they sell more NS merchandise). But when it comes to the US, NH/SS is the most popular ships there. 

 

If Kishi was pressured to put out a canon couple, it would have been NH/SS. 

 

JP doesn't care about ships but SNS/SS/NS/Team 7 are popular. In the West, specifically in America where Naruto sells the most, it's NH/SS. Which is why Kishi took NH/SS. Sakura was well received in Japan, but hated in the West; Hinata is likable in Japan (voice actor/fanboys/SP) , and adored in the West (fanboys/girls). NH/SS were the less risky, money wise. NS might make sense in the plot, but not enough money to go with the franchise.  With NS, you lose the NH/Hinata wankers, and SS. SK is not known well enough in Japan or worldwide, and SNS is here regardless of what's canon (some have left because they wanted an open ending). With NH/SS/ and ST, you still have a loyal audience in the West (look how The Last out sold RtN in America), JP is disappointed but they still have SNS/SS, and SNS is here regardless, but because of the SNS fight. NH/SS are the choices because there re more people who support it than NS/SK. If you look at Fanfiction and Art being posted daily the majority are NH. And it the end it was a good choice, money wise. Gaiden sold over a million copies, Boruto was a success with SNS, and The Last was a success internationally. NS is popular in Japan so they could sell NS family (or family drama) and they can still pull off SNS movie, but they won't have as much international audience as compared to SS/NH, and Naruto became well known because of the international audience. 

 

We are popular in Japan, but not worldwide. SS/NH was good enough to keep the pairing fans because the make the majority, which are a good chunk of the Naruto fandom.

 

Of course there are neutrals and people who cared for plot, but if they really cared about the plot instead of their faves Naruto would not be still selling right now.  

 

I don't think you were here with us during last year. There were people from 2ch (general fans) even a KakaIruka fangirl from Japan reblooged on tumblr to one of the NS fangirls that she explained that the entire fanbase (excluding SS/NH) saw the NS buildup with the WSJ false advertisements over the years the the 30 second NS trailer for TL (which never made it to the film)  had Naruto subconsciously said to himself about Sakura's beauty  has increased.

 

I disagreed with a decent plot would not sell well. The ending prevented old and former Naruto fans to return to the series to see the ending. If they (Kishi, WSJ and SP) never sacrificed their main market for the international market, the final volume would easily sold over 2 million copies in its first week. Perhaps, reaching up to 3 million. TL would easily grossed over 50 million, being the final product if the ending was executed well. 

 

We all know that SNS is the reason why the Naruto Gaiden and Boruto movie sold good, and that's just a junk of the fandom that remains.

[NeonRanger]

 

I don't think you were here with us during last year. There were people from 2ch (general fans) even a KakaIruka fangirl from Japan reblooged on tumblr to one of the NS fangirls that she explained that the entire fanbase (excluding SS/NH) saw the NS buildup with the WSJ false advertisements over the years the the 30 second NS trailer for TL (which never made it to the film)  had Naruto subconsciously said to himself about Sakura's beauty  has increased.

 

I disagreed with a decent plot would not sell well. The ending prevented old and former Naruto fans to return to the series to see the ending. If they (Kishi, WSJ and SP) never sacrificed their main market for the international market, the final volume would easily sold over 2 million copies in its first week. Perhaps, reaching up to 3 million. TL would easily grossed over 50 million, being the final product if the ending was executed well. 

 

We all know that SNS is the reason why the Naruto Gaiden and Boruto movie sold good, and that's just a junk of the fandom that remains.

 

No Gaiden was entirely SS. I talked about Sasuke and his family and the baby drama. That sold over a million copies. The Bolt movie also increased the number of SNS and SS.

 

This isn't about which ship made sense, it's about which one is popular or have more attention. You're friend was right; if you go back into the SS fan club in NF during the last chapter release they will show you the reactions about SS. A lot of Japanese were indeed surprised that SS was canon, they thought is was NS, but the were happy in the end because of Sasuke. Sasuke/ Uchihas are popular in Japan, why do you think we are getting Itachi anime adaptation?

 

Japanese were more disappointed in NH because of the Last. On Tumblr their were two Japanese shippers (SS and NS) that watch the movie. One of them is Jemma something, she translated LadyGTs after the war. She's a SS shipper but watched The Last, when people were asking for reactions, she said that they were disappointed because one you're right, false advertising, but not of NS, but Sasuke and Kakashi; they both been promoted too much the point that people believed that they had a major role into the last story. They didn't and the Bolt movie promo also mislead how this movie was the last, so the felt ripped off. A lot of the people around here and her friends were disappointed in how NH was canon, because the erased both NS and SNS. You saw how they erased SNS, but how they erased NS was the downplay of Naruto's feelings to a rivalry. Before the movie Kishinev mislead people to believe that NS would have a proper closure to NS, which is why shippers attended the movie. I got the similar responses from bother the SS and NS shipper, they both have a Tumblr but I don't know the users, I know it's somewhere on H&E and NF during the Last because people posted it. There were also two people who were in Japan for studying, who watched the Last and was disappointed in NH. 

 

JP had more issues with NH. SS was always the most popular paring, NS was right after; JP were expecting NS to happen, but just because they were expecting it doesn't stop them from shipping SS and SNS. The Japanese didn't care enough about shipping characters. If they did than NS would have been canon. If Kishinev was pressured it was by the West, talking about pairings. JPs might care about plot more, but they also had character bias. Sasuke had enough of an impact that people were pissed of during Bonds and The Last, because of the little time he was hyped up to be in. Kakashi's popularity prevented him from dying like was originally planned (I don't have the interview, but I know it's here and in NF). Neji never reached popularity polls and was decreasing, so he was killed off to promote NH. If Neji had enough followers, we would have a answers from Kishi that wasn't about Cupid. We still don't know why he Neji deserved to be killed off. With Itachi, when he was killed off people were pissed off and look at it now, he already had two  books about him, and now it will become an Anime adaptation. I like Itachi, but he was a secondary character just like Hinata whose getting his own story animated and treated with importance because of popularity. He already had enough attention in the manga for a secondary, but now he's getting even more attention.

 

Same goes for Hinata, she gathered enough popularity to become the new "heroine", which is Naruto. They created the Last and every single Naruto novel had NH moments, the Leaf 11 novel had them fight for gifts go the NH wedding. They also plan on releasing NH moments as well as the Hokage inauguration for the Bolt DVD released. Hinata might be sold individually but she is heavily promo As Naruto's heroine. She's got more promotion than any other character that needed it, like why couldn't he focus on Team 8 instead of Hinata. Look at the bias in anime, Kishi made filler moments for 432 become canon in The Last. Filler NH moments become canon.

 

Now you look at Sakura were we had to watch non-canon to know about her parents/ life. Until now we only have RtN to determine who Sakura's parents are. Kishi drew them, but not everyone watches Naruto movies especially ones that aren't promoted canon like The Last. We have nothing for Sakura; and what I mean is that all of the characters including secondary took a part of Sakura's role. Hinata became a healer in 616 and SP, in the Gaara novel, the legendary three who defeated Kaguya are Kakashi, Naruto, and Sasuke. And role of being an elite medical ninja has been erased into a full time housewife. I didn't mind that she's a housewife, but she had so much taken from her that her remaining a medical ninja was the only thing keeping her importance. SP takes any shot of her to make her more unpopular, and look at they anime the CPR, which is Sakura's last important role to Naruto. I will not be surprised when they pull out fillers for the SNS fight well as some decent animation. Sakura was the heroine, yet she is the most shat upon. Kishi stated years ago how Sakura was unpopular, yet he had more support and influence from Hinata fans. 

 

I'm  going to explain more, but I don't have my laptop with me, wait a moment...

[rocci]

@neon
If this manga is not title as naruto, kishi change the hero to sasuke.

[TouKen4Life3g]

@neon
If this manga is not title as naruto, kishi change the hero to sasuke.

Oh he would have so done that in a heart beat.

[rocci]

Oh he would have so done that in a heart beat.

Yup, sasuke is kishi favorite even if he's not number 1 in popularity poll.

[TouKen4Life3g]

He sure hit number 1 more often than many characters I recalled in other series.

[rocci]

He sure hit number 1 more often than many characters I recalled in other series.

Yes, that's right.

[NeonRanger]

 

 

I hate to admit it, but you do have a point.  Things you brought up were pretty informative looking at it from a business standpoint which is unfortunate, and that is something I wanna parallel that particular topic with novels  (young adult, romance, sci-fi, mystery, etc.) which is something that really sparked in idea in my head. Alright so lets say that Naruto was never an manga or anime (which gave the franchise it's world recognition), but consider lets consider that it was written in the USA (not japan) as a series of books. So It's originated in the USA, but the story has a total Japanese background since it deals with ninjas, martial arts, etc.  I understand some of you might be thinking that Naruto probably wouldn't be known worldwide or recognition that it does now, and I don't necessarily think that is true.  Lets take a look at successful book series like Harry Potter,  Percy Jackson, The Immortal Instruments,  Twilight, The Hunger Games, Divergent Trilogy, etc.  Those series are really successful not just because of the movie adaptations (okay sure City of Bones, and Percy Jackson are huge duds) but the word that spreads from person to person.     A good example I can bring up is Percy Jackson: The Lighting Thief,  I had no idea what that series was about until I went over to my cousin's (not Ria)  and I just saw her reading it.  Funny story is I never gave a sh it about reading books it was a huge waste I thought, but my cousin really convinced me to give it a try and see how it works.  So I'm glad that was the case cause I don't think I'd ever get into reading if it wasn't for that.  Okay now getting to the point,  i bought my own copy of the book and took it to school one  day and a classmate of mine (now really best friend) was like "OMG you're reading that book, what part are you on?".  Once again you may be saying,  Get to the point Lucky Chi.   Fine.... We'll do it your way (hope no one takes that sentence as an insult).  

 

Alright so seeing how things went with me and Percy Jackson;  Lets say that Naruto was put in that same situation where you don't really know anything about it, and you see it laying on a book shelf.  I bet you somebody who's read the book will instantly recognize it and start having a conversation and then you tell other people about and they 'll tell their friends about it.Eventually that would give the novel a lot of recognition and a fanbase would be built around the Naruto Book Series.  I don't necessarily believe the pairings would be the talk of the franchise it would be the direction of the story.  Sakura and Hinata I believe as characters in a novel would probably be handled very differently from the novel. Sakura would probably be the character that gets appreciated by the fans and I don't think Hinata would've gotten the same attention she got from the anime and manga. Hell even Sasuke's character would've been handled much differently then the anime and the manga as far as the audience goes. There wouldn't really be any pandering from the fans, it would be what the writer believes. Actually I would go out of my way to say that as novels, Naruto would probably be a trilogy.

 

The First  would definitely be Part 1 without and doubt while Books 2 and 3 would be Part 2 of the series.  

 

 

Now as far as Titles for The Books go: 

 

Book 1: The Demon Fox Shinobi (same plot as Part 1 with some adjustments made) 

 

Book 2:  The Grasp of Pain (Same plot as Part 2 (up to Pain Invasion Arc ) 

 

Book 3:  The Semblance World (Follow a different plot line from the second half of Part 2) 

 

 

 

If you guys want me to elaborate more on my ideas of visualizing Naruto as a Book Series rather a manga, then let me know and I'll continue.  Though what do you guys think if Naruto was known a series of Books made in the US instead of a really popular anime/manga?

 

I would like if you would explain because I don't understand yet ^.^.

 

But I agree, we keep looking at the Japanese standpoint when it comes to Naruto reactions and sells, but we ignore how Naruto is an international brand. We made Naruto popular enough that is was recognized worldwide. OP is top dog in Japan yet in America it's kid of rare meeting some one who also likes OP compared to Bleach and Naruto. Op is popular, but the majority of sales comes from Japan alone; two volume of OP total over 3.5 million sales in Japan alone which is why OP is number one in manga worldwide. Of course now you have One Punch Man and AoT, but OP is still top seller for long running manga.

 

Naruto gathers between 800,000 to breaking a million in Japan since 2012 because it was suffering the same faith that Bleach is currently in, which is that the manga should have ended where it was suppose to. Bleach was Aizen's defeat and Naruto was the Pain Arc. Bleach still sells in Japan (a volume selling between 300,000-450,000, not bad sells but a huge decrease compared to years before, like Naruto) which is why the manga is still going. It just doesn't sell that much merchandise anymore, and the anime is gone as well, but that was because of the merchandise (they stopped selling it) and filler by SP. Anime might come back after the manga is completed, but who knows?

 

Anyway, Naruto sells enough, but a huge chunk of their profits also come from international sales. In America alone, every Naruto volume has manga to be in NY Times bestseller manga (As of now, One Punch Man and TG are top in the best seller list, but Naruto Gaiden took the #2 spot). Naruto is extremely popular internationally as well as in Japan/East.

 

So if Kishi was pressured it would be NH/SS.

 

If Japan has cared about shipping, then why is NH/SS canon? Wouldn't NS be canon? Why did Gaiden sold over a million copies in Japan and Bolt was a success in Japan? Because of SS/SNS.

 

This is the current popularity:

 

SS: http://dic.pixiv.net.../a/????

 

For SS, if you scroll down to average views, the average views is 150,000 to at times 250,000 per week. When the Bolt movie came out, SS popularity and artworks made to almost 3/4 of a million (over 750,000 in average views) during Gaiden, the views average about 400,000-5000,000.

 

Pixiv was created in 2007 and the total viewership for SS is over 75 million. This includes both Japan and East/West. The total art that is produced is over 7,000. 

 

This is for NS: 

 

http://dic.pixiv.net.../a/????

 

Average views for NS are between 10,000-20,000 and total viewship is 5 million. for the Bolt movie it reached over 40,000, becuase of angst NS doujin/ fanart.  The total art is over 1,300

 

SasuNaru and NaruSasu:

 

http://dic.pixiv.net.../a/????

 

http://dic.pixiv.net.../a/????

 

 

The reason why there is two is because people preferred NS or SN. Total views are over 30 million, and art is over 5,000. IT might be less than SS, but it outsells more doujinshi's and their is more than a dozen official SNS art blogs. NS had five I believed along with SS but they have been abandoned after the ending. 

 

NH was below NS up until the ending after NS tarted leaving. After that The Last really boost up NH, like really boost it up. 

 

Before the ending the art average about 800 and 2 million views. NS before then ending had over 4 million and 1000+ views. SS was the only ship the rivaled against SNS because it had over 2,500+ and 40 million views, same with SNS but there was there was least views and more art. After the ending, a lot of NS shippers left/ delated blogs and NH jumped:

 

http://dic.pixiv.net.../a/????

 

Right now there is 44 million views and 3000+ fanart.  

 

You probably think, how is NS popular in Japan than? NS was popular in Japan, but canon destroyed it. A lot of JP SS shippers dual ship NS and are more pro-Team 7 so they would have not minded NS if it was canon: 

 

http://www.pixiv.net...ust_id=29554801

 

I follow some JP artist on Pixiv (you can sign up if you want, it easier to look at private art and like them them unlike Tumblr). She ships SNS, NS, and SS until the ending. After then ending I saw more NH art. Same with other JP SS accounts; they do ship NS, and they created a lot of art, but after the ending, they just began supporting NH. SNS artists still ship SNS, but most just adopted Bolt and Sarada as SNS kids.

 

The point is had NS became canon, they would have recieved the exact same popularity as NH right now.  JP Naruto fans do not care at all for shipping, otherwise KakaIru such a popular yaoi ship next to SNS. That's why SNS/SS remain the two popular ships. NS was popular until canon, and NH was unpopular until canon.

 

Look at the NS festivals/ promotions that were created before the ending. SNS/SS/NS (Team 7) were the top three. SS was more popular than NS, but they a lot of SS shippers didn't think that SS would be canon and were fine with it which is why if you look at some JP SS on pixiv and twitter they do draw NS art (now the NS art is mostly angst). SS/SNS being popular would not have changed NS not being canon; JP supported Team 7 as long as their bond was not broken, which had happen because of NH. But JP fans aren't one to test their anger which is why their over this much more sooner than us. 

 

Which is why I believe Kishi was more into pressure when it comes to international fans. JP do not care much about shipping and they do carry some character bias (Sasuke has more fanarts and support than Naruto in JP, internationally Naruto is the most popular). Point, they are not as attached as we are when it comes to shipping. 

 

We can't just look at JP, we need to look at it internationally as well. NH/SS are more popular internationally. NH is extremely popular internationally. If NS was canon, in JP there would be a celebration and more artwork, and NH would have been in the same predicament as we are when it comes to the lack of fanart/fanfics. SS would have not changed much because it was always popular before the ending; people shipped SS more in fanon. Same with SNS. SS being canon only brought out more people who were hesitant to ship it, and NS shippers who had a soft spot and jumped ship. SNS would always remained same with popularity. 

 

Internationally, NS being canon would decrease a lot of profit. The Last was a financial success in America/West compared to RtN (RtN gathered 43,000$ in sales total while The Last gathered over 900,000$, but RtN was more successful in Japan than the The Last). Also go to conventions and you see more NH cosplayers and supporters than NS/SS. You see more art/fanart being produced by NH/SS than NS/SK. H & E here an Naruto Forums, as well as the two NS clubs (Naruto x Sakura and SakuNaru, also Shinachiku Club) in devientart are the only places where I look for NS. Were as SS/NH are everywhere but splattered to the point were we believed that they weren't as popular to NS. You also have popular Anime YT reviewers who are pro-NH/ anti-Sakura. There is even a couple of anti-SS reviewers that made popular anti-SS/ pro-Sakura rants, but supported NH. We are more group orientated compared to NH/SS, which is why we appeared more popular. But we don't make profit internationally. 

 

With Japanese not caring about ships,  the extreme Sakura hate, and NH being more popular and profitable in the West, if Kishi was pressured he would choose NH/SS. And it was his correct choice. The Last was a success internationally and prove to be less off a risk than NS. SS is popular int both JP and the West (America mainly), Gaiden sold well in both places. And Bolt manage to appeal a lot to SNS fans.  

 

This would have been the exact same if NS was canon. SS shippers would ship NS and become more popular and SNS type movie will still gather SNS shippers because they bond is not broken. The problem was NH. 

 

If NH hadn't gathered so much popularity internationally, NS would have most likely been canon. Because NH/Hinata gathered more popularity, the Sakura hate became more apparent. SNS fan hated Sakura, so the hate was there but NH/Hinata gaining more popularity and SP doing as much as they can to make her hated and Hinata a perfect angel, the hate manage to get to the point where it reached Kishi. Kishi didn't help matters, but SP made it worse. Kishi doesn't watch the anime, so he's not aware of what being change. He is only aware when the directors tell him what they had included in the anime. And he's only somewhat invloved in movies.

 

NH also help with SS remaining so popular as it is now. Before NH/SS were sister shippers, now NH want nothing to do with SS. SS remain so popular in the West because of NH, imo.

 

NH/Hinata was pretty much the reason for this ending. Shipping wise, not plot wise. Plot wise is completely different story in General Naruto discussion, but NH/Hinata was pretty much the reason why everything after Naruto became all about ships instead of plot.