31591 replies to this topic

[ramenanmitsu]

It's all there in the Manga. She still obsessed over Sasuke when the war was going on, she still obsessed over him when he backstabbed them, she still obsessed over him when she married him. And yeag, I term the love that still stays strong whe. the other guy is trying to kill/is openly abusive against you obsessive. Actually trashing his feelings like that without any apparent reason is even worse.

There is no evident connection between her obsession to Sasuke and to why she pushed Naruto towards Hinata. All you did was show panels of her being 'obsessed' with Sasuke like Naruto. That does not automatically become the reason why she pushed Naruto towards Hinata. To claim that event B happened because of event A with nothing to explain the connection is quite illogical.

So in the end it's all speculation on your part. You are doing the exact same thing you claim you hate Sakura for doing.

And yeah. I know that the ending was destroyed. I posted some rants on this board about that too. But I just can't see why people hate naruto and the others and not Sakura based on the ending.

There are a lot of people here who hates Sakura more than Naruto. It just became less obvious because Naruto's character got trashed too.

I hate both btw AND Sasuke too.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 14 March 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[Nar123]

Hm.. Really? If there is confirmation on Naruto's part that he loved her because of the rivalry, I will wholeheartedly support Sakura. Before that, no.
Actually, Naruto is a pretty sulky guy. His motivations for fighting generally come from his emotions about the situation. A big example was when he almost gave up against Juubi when Neki and others were killed. The last Naruto's trait matches up with the canon one's in that regard.

And yeah. I know that the ending was destroyed. I posted some rants on this board about that too. But I just can't see why people hate naruto and the others and not Sakura based on the ending.

 

Against the Juubi he had the death of a comrade (Neji) , because of that he stopped, and even then the whole scene was forced to make Hinata shine ( as Kishimoto admitted on his interview) 

 

In the Toneri mission he just plainly gives up in the entire world after Hinata "rejects " him...well WTF, even in the original manga story Naruto continued following the Sauce, even after  Sasuke rejected his advances to bring him back multiple times and in this case its even worse because the whole world is in danger...it just makes Naruto look like a selfish jackass as I said before. Caring more for what he is feeling than the results of his inactions.

 

Everything felt like a forced/ contrived way to make Naruto give up so cheap drama could be added to the story, it was really badly done

 

And yes, in that scene with Sakura, Naruto is supposed to agree with her reasons, he doesn't try to correct her on anything and later on even "thanks" her 

Edited by Nar123, 14 March 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[somilmish]

This is the first reason that comes to my mind. Actually, any other reason for her doing is, as I said in the quoted post, much more worse. She just trash talked to him for no reason but to get him with Hinata? Doesn't she care about what he feels? Wouldn't a"No, Naruto. For the last time, I dont love you!" suffice to push him towards Hinata?

No. There is no confirmation on Naruto's pat. The thank you could've jyst as easily mwant "Thank you for telling me what I mean to you."

I really see it this way. In that scene, Naruto is summarily disenchanted by Sakura.

Edited by somilmish, 14 March 2015 - 11:30 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

This is the first reason that comes to my mind. Actually, any other reason for her doing is, as I said in the quoted post, much more worse. She just trash talked to him for no reason but to get him with Hinata? Doesn't she care about what he feels? Wouldn't a"No, Naruto. For the last time, I dont love you!" suffice to push him towards Hinata?

So you do agree that it's the reason in YOUR mind right? It's your opinion then. Please stop talking them as if they're facts. The limited amount of reasons you can come up with are not called facts.

And THE LAST confirms that Naruto was actually in love with Hinata because he saw she was in love with him. So what Sakura did made Naruto happy in the end, and as Nar123 said Naruto was grateful for her.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 14 March 2015 - 11:30 AM.

[Nar123]

This is the first reason that comes to my mind. Actually, any other reason for her doing is, as I said in the quoted post, much more worse. She just trash talked to him for no reason but to get him with Hinata? Doesn't she care about what he feels? Wouldn't a"No, Naruto. For the last time, I dont love you!" suffice to push him towards Hinata?

 

 

Did you even watch the last? What made Naruto's feelings for Hinata suddenly change was a genjutsu, in which for the sake of the plot, he saw Hinata's memories and felt pity, not Sakura's stupid matchmaking 

 

In the end, most characters were destroyed, no exception. I know its probably hard to admit this because Naruto probably played a huge role in your life somehow in some manner, but thats the truth, the author ruined his own characters for the sake of a pairing.

Edited by Nar123, 14 March 2015 - 11:31 AM.

[somilmish]

Most of the posts in this board (some quite ridiculous) are just the opinions of people.

Naruto married Hinata for her kittens-Opinion
Kishi didn't want to draw Bolt-Opinion
Kishi was forced by the manga guys to change his endin-Opinion.

So me posting my character-based- opinion on something that is not clarified are just as valid as the other guy's. Or should I post JMO after every post?

[TouKen4Life3g]

Why Sakura couldn't pull chapter 120. She is that weak? God, this is why she can't be "popular," Kishi. She's in front and center, so do something.

 

It's no wonder each arc feel likes it ignores the before effect. Well, mainly Kage and up because Naruto is whatever about Tsunade (did he say sorry?), Naruto and Sakura just bury the hatchet (because...they did?) and many more.

[Nar123]

Most of the posts in this board (some quite ridiculous) are just the opinions of people.

Naruto married Hinata for her kittens-Opinion
Kishi didn't want to draw Bolt-Opinion
Kishi was forced by the manga guys to change his endin-Opinion.

So me posting my character-based- opinion on something that is not clarified are just as valid as the other guy's. Or should I post JMO after every post?

 

I believe that when people say the first thing, it is actually a joke 

the second and last things are things to be considered since we don't actually know Kishi's real feelings, in his interviews he always feels like a puppet, like someone is pulling his strings, telling him what to do, what not to do. So these assumptions are okay

 

But your interpretation of Sakura and Naruto's characters in the last is far-off, you probably didn't even watch the film, for the people who watched it its quite obvious Naruto agreed with Sakura in the "rivalry" scene, you are only trying to interpret in another manner to protect Naruto's character. Clearly you care more about Naruto's character than the authour did, but unfortunately for you, the truth is that the Last cemented Naruto as a self centered scumbag and thats even how they calll him in Japan now

 

Ramen, our friend, is from Japan and he can confirm it

Edited by Nar123, 14 March 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

Most of the posts in this board (some quite ridiculous) are just the opinions of people.
Naruto married Hinata for her kittens-Opinion
Kishi didn't want to draw Bolt-Opinion
Kishi was forced by the manga guys to change his endin-Opinion.
So me posting my character-based- opinion on something that is not clarified are just as valid as the other guy's. Or should I post JMO after every post?

You posted as facts. How is saying "Naruto's love for Sakura was obviously true" be considered as you just saying your opinion? If I said something using the word true, it means I'm going to speak a fact. If you're going to write your opinion, write it as an opinion.

[somilmish]

02
02
Did you even watch the last? What made Naruto's feelings for Hinata suddenly change was a genjutsu, in which for the sake of the plot, he saw Hinata's memories and felt pity, not Sakura's stupid matchmaking02
02
In the end, most characters were destroyed, no exception. I know its probably hard to admit this because Naruto probably played a huge role in your life somehow in some manner, but thats the truth, the author ruined his own characters for the sake of a pairing.

Yeah. I did. And I know how they worked the pairings out, but that comment was the final straw that broke the camel's back for him.

What I have a problem with is the fact that people hate Naruto and the others and love Sakura (when taking the ending into account). In my eyes, Sakura is very summarily trashed in the last and if I do include it when thinking about Sakura, she will be one of the worst, most hated characters for me. JMO.

[ichigo500]

 

It isn't, the explanation of rivalry came out of thin air. Nothing on the series indicated this 

Futhermore Naruto didn't fought the fact of what she was saying which makes everything worse

 

 

Seriously I understand the reason to hate after-699 Sakura, but before Kage Summit arc ( where she admitted she was useless contradicting all her efforts at the end of part 1) at least and even some moments at the war arc we get a shine of how her character has the capacity of evolving , unfortunately the author completely f**cked up

 

 

Seriously if anything you should be hating against the stupid author right now (authors by the way, because it seems like his editors wrote the story more than him) 

I think the same ! The characters did nothing, it's all Kishi's fault !

First, he didn't even know how to develop properly a heroine...Even if he chose Hinata instead of Sakura, nothing will prove that he would do a good job at developing her too ! 

Then, Sakura was, during all the manga, unsure about her feelings for Naruto. She was supposed, imo, to realize what she really felt for him at the end of the manga, to see that he were the one who truly made her happy. But at least, she was "unsure" unlike Naruto, and staying silent when Sakura told him that a girl's feelings never change and that he loved her just because of his rivalry with Sasuke, is even worse than what she stated, because the real Naruto would never let anyone say something like this. 

 

Anyway, for me , the last isn't even a canon movie because the characters in it weren't even the real ones we knew and loved. 

[somilmish]

You posted as facts. How is saying "Naruto's love for Sakura was obviously true" be considered as you just saying your opinion? If I said something using the word true, it means I'm going to speak a fact. If you're going to write your opinion, write it as an opinion.

That is a fact. Do you disagree with Naruto's love being actual love and not some game that was played for rivalry?

Edited by somilmish, 14 March 2015 - 11:42 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

Yeah. I did. And I know how they worked the pairings out, but that comment was the final straw that broke the camel's back for him.
What I have a problem with is the fact that people hate Naruto and the others and love Sakura (when taking the ending into account). In my eyes, Sakura is very summarily trashed in the last and if I do include it when thinking about Sakura, she will be one of the worst, most hated characters for me. JMO.

You're telling people to accept your opinion and at the same time you're saying that you can't accept theirs? What you're doing is forcing people to agree with you.

Some people hate Sakura more than Naruto. Good for them.
Some people hate Naruto more than Sakura. Good for them.

Deal with it.

That is a fact. Do you disagree with Naruto's love being actual love and not some game that was played for rivalry?

No. The LAST which was considered canon stated that Naruto used Sakura for his rivalry with Sasuke. So I disagree.
I have a different opinion to yours. Learn to deal with it.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 14 March 2015 - 11:45 AM.

[Khaleesi]

Why Sakura couldn't pull chapter 120. She is that weak? God, this is why she can't be "popular," Kishi. She's in front and center, so do something.

 

It's no wonder each arc feel likes it ignores the before effect. Well, mainly Kage and up because Naruto is whatever about Tsunade (did he say sorry?), Naruto and Sakura just bury the hatchet (because...they did?) and many more.

She was hated for how she was when she was 12  How she treated Naruto and her "love" for Sasuke. And everytime she showed something "alike" to it in second part people said "see??? she doesn't change" aka punching Naruto or worrying about Sasuke. 

 

What kind of reading comprehension is this?

 

Also, Sakura represented all those girls who never looked at them (to those fedora-nice-guys ).

[somilmish]

You're telling people to accept your opinion and at the same time you're saying that you can't accept theirs? What you're doing is forcing people to agree with you.

Some people hate Sakura more than Naruto. Good for them.
Some people hate Naruto more than Sakura. Good for them.

Deal with it.

No. The LAST which was considered canon stated that Naruto used Sakura for his rivalry with Sasuke. So I disagree.
I have a different opinion to yours. Learn to deal with it.

Hm..

[Lady Lys]

The ending is so messed up that everyone is free to interpret it as he or she prefers ( or in whatever way he or she tries to make any sense of the kitten we've been given).

 

But, regarding the fact that Naruto stayed silent during the rivalry thing, blame it on my italianishness, but I've always followed an old saying which says: ​"chi tace acconsente." which can be loosely translated in "he who keeps silent acquiesces".

 

I believe that we are all allowed to have our own different opinions on this matter (and thanks God for the fact that we're not homologated idiots, because it means we use our own brains to think), the important thing is to discuss peacefully. We are not animals, or better yet, beasts and we are not tards. 

[Nar123]

That is a fact. Do you disagree with Naruto's love being actual love and not some game that was played for rivalry?

 

This is a retconned fact. Naruto loved her in canon, the last retconned this and made all a rivalry. This is bad writing 101 

And not only Sakura got trashed, Naruto got trashed too, together mostly everyone else

 

 

Yeah. I did. And I know how they worked the pairings out, but that comment was the final straw that broke the camel's back for him.

What I have a problem with is the fact that people hate Naruto and the others and love Sakura (when taking the ending into account). In my eyes, Sakura is very summarily trashed in the last and if I do include it when thinking about Sakura, she will be one of the worst, most hated characters for me. JMO.

 

This is your opinion. Naruto began to look at Hinata with other eyes after the genjutsu thing. Then he acted pathetically after she left and Sakura's reassurance that Hinata couldn't stop loving him  since girls are forever stuck in their first love is what made him come back from his pathetic state

So basically its not even the eventual fate of the world and his friends that spurned him into action, but the fact that he was sure Hinata could never stop loving him because in Naruto's world " once a girl falls in love once she can never change back "

 

As I said,he became a self centered scumbag

 

I liked Naruto's character, I liked Sakura's character too 

But they got trashed in the end, both of them 

And really, why do you keep blaming them? The only one at fault here is kishimoto, this was his story , he wrote the characters ( his editors apparently did most of the job tho) 

Edited by Nar123, 14 March 2015 - 11:54 AM.

[somilmish]

"The last" did not say this. It was a character that did, who was very intimately involved with the matter. Characters can be biased, characters can make ridiculous assumptions about the other's feelings. The opinions of a character on the other character are not taken as hard canon. The point that Naruto didnt love her out of a rivalry still stands. We, as readers, who have seen all the interactions of the character, can make much more objective judgement than an in-story character that has biases and a limited knowledge (comparitively).

Edited by somilmish, 14 March 2015 - 11:53 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

"The last" did not say this. It was a character that did, who was very intimately involved with the matter. Characters can be biased, characters can make ridiculous assumptions about the other's feelings. The opinions of a character on the other character are not taken as hard canon. The point that Naruto didnt love her out of a rivalry still stands. We, as readers, who have seen all the interactions of the character, can make much more objective judgement than an in-character that has biases and a limited knowledge (comparitively).

I see. The NH fans and SS fans which are larger than the NS fanbase made an 'objective' judgement that Naruto has loved Sakura out of rivalry all this time.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 14 March 2015 - 11:57 AM.

[somilmish]

Um.. there was a controversial interview given by Kishi two months ago, right? Has it been translated?