19441 replies to this topic

[tricksie]

 

 

If they wanted to appeal to girls, then why not make Sakura the lead? She's the one female in the manga most regular girls can relate to, she's not the classic big breasted, 2D woman we see in Shounon Manga, Sakura was a classic example of a strog Shojo type heroine, she looks allot more like the typical Shojo heroine, her beauty is based on reality, she isn't made to ook perfect, she doesn't have big breasts, and perfect features, she is awkward, has issues with her forehead. Her personailty is the closest a girl could relate to, every girl has a first crush, one that doesn't pay them attention, they hope to find a love that makes them the centre of their world, would move a mountain for them to see them smile.

 

If Kishi wanted to make a Shojo movie he should have picked a Shojo heroine, someone the girls could relate to...maybe we should do a poll, we must have plenty of female fans of the series here right?

 

Which charactor can the relate to more, Hinata or Sakura?

 

You're absolutely right — Sakura is the normal girl. She's the strong one. She's the one with flaws. She's the one who's made mistakes and overcome them. It absolutely could have and should have been Sakura.

 

My theory is that the marketing team (made up of editors and artists and the promotions people within the umbrella company that owns Naruto) decided on the future of Naruto and chose the one girl who looked the most traditional Japanese. The most like the audience they were trying to attract.

 

And I don't think this was a Kishimoto-led decision. I think this whole beast was created by someone else, after RtN and as a way to extend the series after the end of the manga, and then it was pitched to Kishimoto.

 

Basically, Kishimoto might have had two choices: go with the marketing scheme that they've cooked up, support it, illustrate it and collect more money on it; or leave the manga with an open ending and watch the whole series be handed off to someone else, with him recieving nothing but royalty checks and having little artistic control.

 

Just a thought, but lots and lots creative projects have gone down that way before. Creators get fired, producers and directors come in and change everything. It happens. It's a business. I don't think Naruto, the brand, is any exception.

 

As for why Sakura over Hinata, I really think that it's because Hinata looks traditionally Japanese and her character is ridiculously passive and feminine. She's never offended anyone. Ever. She's is a pretty, flawless character. She exists to worship the hero. And in a nation that's right now having issues with women's roles and women's empowerment, Hinata might have been the safest bet at the box office, while Sakura would have ruffled some feathers.

 

Again, my armchair theories. But yes — it should have been Sakura. Something went wrong. And we just don't know what it was yet.

[Ether]

FFS, Kishimoto, STOP.TALKING. God, I never wanted anyone to shut up this badly.

[tricksie]

 

And, shocker, part of what made NS so beautiful is that both characters are flawed, imperfect, and real. Sasuke and Hinata are too easily portrayed as typical "popular" characters.

 

Also, can we get a separate bank of "likes" just for Tricksie's posts?

 

 

Yeah, Hinata is flawless and 2d, a cardboard cutout of a real girl, and the movie renders Sasuke absolutely unneccessary to the story. He's been Tenten-ed.

[trang95]

 

 

If they wanted to appeal to girls, then why not make Sakura the lead? She's the one female in the manga most regular girls can relate to, she's not the classic big breasted, 2D woman we see in Shounon Manga, Sakura was a classic example of a strog Shojo type heroine, she looks allot more like the typical Shojo heroine, her beauty is based on reality, she isn't made to ook perfect, she doesn't have big breasts, and perfect features, she is awkward, has issues with her forehead. Her personailty is the closest a girl could relate to, every girl has a first crush, one that doesn't pay them attention, they hope to find a love that makes them the centre of their world, would move a mountain for them to see them smile.

 

If Kishi wanted to make a Shojo movie he should have picked a Shojo heroine, someone the girls could relate to...maybe we should do a poll, we must have plenty of female fans of the series here right?

 

Which charactor can the relate to more, Hinata or Sakura?

I think the question is not whether or not people can relate to Hinata. To be honest, I have never met someone as shy and insecure as Hinata in real life who is constantly stalking her crush for more than over a decade. No human has such an unhealthy obsession towards their first infatuation. While Hinata's main character traits are gentleness and kindness, she does not reflect the full range of emotions and feelings people undergo through. Hinata has not been portrayed enough in the Manga for the readers to know her complete personality.

Out of all the characters, Sakura is indeed the most human. Except for her hair color, she has realistic body features (flat chest, big forehead), gained her skills through hard work and not inheritence, and is easily one of the most emotional characters throughout the entire series.-There's a reason why I wish I could be like Sakura sometimes, but I'm digressing.

Sakura's main problem is simply the everlasting hate a huge chunk of the fandom has towards her. Her "ordinary" human strength is nothing exciting to the people and -let's be honest- whenever she's around Sasuke, she pisses people of- very many people. Her confession was unpopular among the majority of the fandom as it was so easily misinterpreted and only decreased her popularity further. It's like Kishi is unaware of the hatred he himself is putting onto Sakura b/c of the way he portrays her in the manga.

What I'm trying to say is: When the writers had to make a decision b/w Sakura and Hinata, they chose Hinata b/c they knew that many people dislike Sakura. Kishi sold out. Period.

Not once will I believe that he intended Sakura not to come together with Naruto.

 

EDIT: If anyone even tried to watch the special yesterday, just don't, b/c if you thought they would explore the sister-relationship you were dead wrong.

Edited by trang95, 05 December 2014 - 08:14 PM.

[Nefertieh]

 

You're absolutely right — Sakura is the normal girl. She's the strong one. She's the one with flaws. She's the one who's made mistakes and overcome them. It absolutely could have and should have been Sakura.

 

My theory is that the marketing team (made up of editors and artists and the promotions people within the umbrella company that owns Naruto) decided on the future of Naruto and chose the one girl who looked the most traditional Japanese.

 

I don't think this was a Kishimoto-led decision. I think this whole beast was created by someone else, after RtN and as a way to extend the series after the end of the manga, and then it was pitched to Kishimoto.

 

Basically, Kishimoto might have had two choices: go with the marketing scheme that they've cooked up, support it, illustrate it and collect more money on it; or leave the manga with an open ending and watch the whole series be handed off to someone else, with him recieving nothing but royalty checks and having little artistic control.

 

Just a thought, but lots and lots creative projects have gone down that way before. Creators get fired, producers and directors come in and change everything. It happens. It's a business. I don't think Naruto, the brand, is any exception.

 

As for why Sakura over Hinata, I really think that it's because Hinata looks traditionally Japanese and her character is ridiculously passive and feminine. She's never offended anyone. Ever. She's is a pretty, flawless character. She exists to worship the hero. And in a nation that's right now having issues with women's roles and women's empowerment, Hinata might have been the safest bet at the box office, while Sakura would have ruffled some feathers.

 

Again, my armchair theories. But yes — it should have been Sakura. Something went wrong. And we just don't know what it was yet.

 

From my understanding, readers seem to have the perception that a girl who rejects a guy is damaged goods. And it seems like the one thing people hate more than a woman who rejects a man is a woman who is in love with more than one guy.

 

Sakura, who was established to be in love with Sasuke, would fill both of the previously mentioned criteria if she choose Naruto. That's why Kishimoto called her terrible if she did. He would rather marry her off with a guy who would gladly gut her like a fish than make her "unfaithful".

 

It just seems so ironic how he dedicated all that ink and paper to show she was aware Sasuke was a bad person who she couldn't trust.

 

I think the question is not whether or not people can relate to Hinata or not. To be honest, I have never met someone as shy and insecure as Hinata in real life who is constantly stalking her crush for more over than a decade. No human has such an unhealthy obsession towards their first infatuation. While Hinata's main character traits are gentleness and kindness, she does not reflect the full range of emotions and feelings people undergo through. Hinata has not been portrayed enough in the Manga to know her complete personality.

Out of all the characters, Sakura is indeed the most human. Except for her hair color, she has realistic body features (flat chest, big forehead), gained her skills through hard work and not inheritence, and is easily one of the most emotional characters throughout the entire series.-There's a reason why I wish I could be like Sakura sometimes, but I'm digressing.

Sakura's main problem is simply the everlasting hate a huge chunk of the fandom has towards her. Her "ordinary" human strength is nothing exciting to the people and -let's be honest- whenever she's around Sasuke, she pisses people of- very many people. Her confession was unpopular among the majority of the fandom as it was so easily misinterpreted and only decreased her popularity further. It's like Kishi is unaware of the hatred he himself is putting onto Sakura b/c of the way he portrays her in the manga.

What I'm trying to say is: When the writers had to make a decision b/w Sakura and Hinata, they chose Hinata b/c they knew that many people dislike Sakura. Kishi sold out. Period.

Not once will I believe that he intended Sakura not to come together with Naruto.

 

EDIT: If anyone even tried to watch the special yesterday, just don't, b/c if you thought they would explore the sister-relationship you were dead wrong.

 

Well said.

 

I never really understood Hinata's obsession with Naruto is considered to be cute when her fangirlism essentially a quieter version of Sakura and Ino's with Sasuke.

 

 

 

EDIT: If anyone even tried to watch the special yesterday, just don't, b/c if you thought they would explore the sister-relationship you were dead wrong.

 

Let me guess. "Naruto-kun?"

 

I love how SP can't decide if Hinata is the black sheep hated by her clan or if she and her sister and BFFs.

Edited by Nefertieh, 05 December 2014 - 03:20 PM.

[tricksie]

 

From my understanding, readers seem to have the perception that a girl who rejects a guy is damaged goods. And it seems like the one thing people hate more than a woman who rejects a man is a woman who is in love with more than one guy.

 

Sakura, who was established to be in love with Sasuke, would fill both of the previously mentioned criteria if she choose Naruto. That's why Kishimoto called her terrible if she did. He would rather marry her off with a guy who would gladly gut her like a fish than make her "unfaithful".

 

It just seems so ironic how he dedicated all that ink and paper to show she was aware Sasuke was a bad person who she couldn't trust.

 

Yeah, it's a tremendously sexist pov, and shows that Kishimoto, in the end, wasn't as good as his creations. The story ended on these lines. The hero is unchallenged and is awarded the long-devoted, long-suffering, flaw free, phsyically attractive girl. Sakura and Sasuke are paired and written off.

 

It's interesting though that in the promotional art Sakura is never shown with Sasuke. She's still always standing by Naruto. It's like the promotional people can't see her as someone who doesn't support Naruto, or someone who would choose Sasuke over Naruto, and would stand by him and support him instead. There's truth in that little bit of positioning that's happening over and over again in the advertising!!

[Hanabi]

Let me guess. "Naruto-kun?"

 

I love how SP can't decide if Hinata is the black sheep hated by her clan or if she and her sister and BFFs.

filler hina-hana became like ita-sasu (childhood) 

Edited by Hanabi, 05 December 2014 - 03:27 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

DITTO.     

WE SHALL RAISE THEM TO RAISE HELL! 

together  Like their grandparents! 

 

 

I love how SP can't decide if Hinata is the black sheep hated by her clan or if she and her sister and BFFs.

THAT. 

If she and her sister are BFF's then her "understanding" of Naruto goes out the window. She has to have been ALONE and unwanted to understand him. They can't have it both ways. 

[NarutoIzDaMan]

Not surprised in the least about what Kishi said cuz it's what I've suspected since the beginning of part 2 and now he's outright CONFIRMED it - He's a F'n  TROLL!!! 

 

If you look back at part 2 and leave out all the pairing/shipping hints there are still a number of plot holes, retcons, and head scratching moments that make you wonder - what's this guy doing to his his own story. All I can say is that Kishi's credibility took a MASSIVE hit if this is true. How are fans EVER supposed to invest, believe, or trust that he will deliver the goods when it comes to future projects.

 

If your goal is to do nothing but mislead people who are invested in your story then your reputation will forever be that of a TROLL.

[trang95]

 

From my understanding, readers seem to have the perception that a girl who rejects a guy is damaged goods. And it seems like the one thing people hate more than a woman who rejects a man is a woman who is in love with more than one guy.

 

Sakura, who was established to be in love with Sasuke, would fill both of the previously mentioned criteria if she choose Naruto. That's why Kishimoto called her terrible if she did. He would rather marry her off with a guy who would gladly gut her like a fish than make her "unfaithful".

 

It just seems so ironic how he dedicated all that ink and paper to show she was aware Sasuke was a bad person who she couldn't trust.

 

 

Well said.

 

I never really understood Hinata's obsession with Naruto is considered to be cute when her fangirlism essentially a quieter version of Sakura and Ino's with Sasuke.

 

 

 

Let me guess. "Naruto-kun?"

 

I love how SP can't decide if Hinata is the black sheep hated by her clan or if she and her sister and BFFs.

It was kittening ridiculous! Both episodes were simply written from Hanabi's point of view. All she does is reflecting on her feelings about her sister. "My sister is so kind and strong. I hope I can be like Hinata- onee-sama one day". Like wtf?! 390 was by far worse- when Chatte warned us about it, I never thought that Hinata's minimal interference in the Pain Saga would be treated in a heroic sense. It was abysmal. Naruto was even overshadowed by Hinata although he was the one defeating Pain.

In the end, I have no idea of what the dynamic b/w Hinata and Hanabi is like. Great setup for this movie in which Hinata is rescuing her sister.

Edited by trang95, 05 December 2014 - 03:32 PM.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

filler hina-hana became like ita-sasu (childhood) 

 

With Hinata as Itachi?

[Lady Lys]

 

WE SHALL RAISE THEM TO RAISE HELL! 

together  Like their grandparents! 

 

THAT. 

If she and her sister are BFF's then her "understanding" of Naruto goes out the window. She has to have been ALONE and unwanted to understand him. They can't have it both ways. 

 

'Course we will. 

But...we live in 2 different continents   

Oh well, one of us will have to move! 

 

 

 

 

 

Now Hinata and Hanabi are friends?! PTFFFFFF.....is Her Grace now considered a protective big sister??? PTFFFFFF 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....NO.

[StriderC]

Yeah, it's a tremendously sexist pov, and shows that Kishimoto, in the end, wasn't as good as his creations. The story ended on these lines. The hero is unchallenged and is awarded the long-devoted, long-suffering, flaw free, phsyically attractive girl. Sakura and Sasuke are paired and written off.
 
It's interesting though that in the promotional art Sakura is never shown with Sasuke. She's still always standing by Naruto. It's like the promotional people can't see her as someone who doesn't support Naruto, or someone who would choose Sasuke over Naruto, and would stand by him and support him instead. There's truth in that little bit of positioning that's happening over and over again in the advertising!!

I've always considered Kishi sexist but he's disgusting sexist at this point. I'd rather a female write about a male character than leave him writing females when it comes to love. Sakura was one of the best characters he created because of how realistic she was. That was her appeal for me. And he ruined her in one chapter. It took one chapter for her character to collapse. Strong? Outspoken? Mature? Rational? It's insane what Sasuke does to her. He brings out the worst In her.

I find it hilarious how even tough Sasuke Is now GOOD. he doesn't get much in this movie. Sakura loses her heroine status. I'm sure she's gonna be presented as a more capable ninja in the movie and she's taken on Sakura's role seemingly. His healer? His right hand? It's not gonna feel right because it's soooo left field. Kishi should have just wrote her out of the movie with Sasuke.

The one thing that'll make me believe NS was supposed to go somewhere will ALWAYS be chapter 3. He said exactly what she wanted to here. I hate how things were left unresolved. The lack of focus on so much just to make this pairing seem more believable. It's so comical! A love story about NH after years of neglecting the damn pairing! I guess that's the proper way of doing it.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

'Course we will. 

But...we live in 2 different continents 

Oh well, one of us will have to move! 

 

 

Now Hinata and Hanabi are friends?! PTFFFFFF.....is Her Grace now considered a protective big sister??? PTFFFFFF 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....NO.

You should come to the U.S, we have everything including communists/socialists! Just like the home country, eh?

Maybe HANABI is the protective one? 

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

He's trying to keep his movie from bombing. Sorry Kishi(not really) it looks like it's gonna happen. You ruined your main characters in one chapter. ONE FRIGGIN CHAPTER!!! So screw you.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Kishimoto cannot get out of this, point blank. The only people willing to turn a blind eye at this point are NH shippers.
Everyone else, who isn't unduly biased against characters or ships, or against READING in general can concede that he's kittened up big time and every new Interview where he back-peddles just proves the case that NH is in fact a badly written ending. 

[StriderC]

Kishimoto cannot get out of this, point blank. The only people willing to turn a blind eye at this point are NH shippers.
Everyone else, who isn't unduly biased against characters or ships, or against READING in general can concede that he's f**cked up big time and every new Interview where he back-peddles just proves the case that NH is in fact a badly written ending.

it's so comical though! He really did kitten up and I have no kittens to give if this movie tanks. I hope it doesn't do as well as RtN Jay so these fools can see that even though some people didn't like NS it AT LEAST made sense and it didn't butcher characters around them. NH required murdering character's overall. Going off of these interviews I shouldn't even like Naruto. He's a user.

[StriderC]

Lol at the end of the day, this is what happens when you cross NS... ;) lmao

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

I still like Naruto. Just not the kitten pretending to be him in the movie cause he's not the real Naruto.

[Mixer]

ugh, kitten this!

 

Anyway has the movie been played?