144 replies to this topic

[redrose3443]

I say there was no real heroine, because Kishi couldn't let female characters get ahead for kitten. However, if there had to be one, it would be Sakura, because despite the last two chapters, she had the most development and was the most involved with the story plot, in terms of females. Hinata's character arguable went backwards after the time skip and she was not even in a quarter of the series, so there's no way I consider her the heroine.

[Tiller]

 

 

 

 

 

that's partially true.

 

 

that's studio pierrot not kishi. it's pretty clear that kishi just washed his hands of this love sub plot with absolutely no effort.

 

That's Kishimoto's fault to. A creator handing over the reigns of his work to another to develop makes him just as guilty of what comes out of that as the person he handed control over to. He allowed this to happen. If what you say he right he went to the sidelines, instead of continuing to develop his story to conclusion as he wanted.

 

The only option if that's the case ie he either allowed his insecurities or his desire for the most money to sway his judgement.

[Gaara's hair]

Naruto's the heroine and Sasuke's the hero, simple.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

No seriously, Kishimoto is that retarded. He said it was never his intention to make Sakura the heroine of the series. It was only until late in the story that he decided that there should be a heroine (even though logically, it should be Sakura by that point of the story) and decided on Hinata.

I have no clue what version of Naruto you were reading, but it sounds even WORSE then the one we were given. 

Until "late" into the story would have been around the time Sakura was summoning slugs in tandem with Naruto and Sasuke's summoning, yet she was being Heroic long before then. 

[Lady_duckish]

I dont think Kishi ever really cared to have a heroine. I know what hes said in the past but actions speak louder than words.I dont buy his bull about not knowing how to write female characters either or w.e the heck he said. There's no complicated formula to writing for different sexes. Its as simple as devoting time to making your leading lady as central to the story as the other lead support characters. 

[James S Cassidy]

Heroine? There isn't even a hero in this story. Naruto is the supposedly the "main character," but he is no hero. Sakura and Hinata are not heroine's and they stopped doing things late into the show...Sakura was a heroine at first, but Kishi changed his mind and Sasuke...well, Sasuke is probably the most convenient hero out of any character I have ever seen. He wants to do bad stuff, but all the "bad" he tries doing ends up being a serendipitous heroism. It is by far the worst aspect about him.

Even if he does nothing, just because he stood there, he is labeled the hero. He did nothing against Kabuto, that was all itachi, and he did nothing against Kaguya and he got thanked for that. All he did was be the other half of the seal and that was it.

Naruto does all the work, Sasuke got all the credit.

 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

The problem with Sakura is that she had no objective.

I was talking about that on 4chan, even TenTen had a better reasoning to be Tsunade's apprentice than Sakura, she wanted to be like Tsunade and be a strong Kunoichi.
Sakura didnt had an objective by herself all she wanted was to help Naruto and Sasuke.(which is what a support character do)

With her lack of objectice and her complete absense on the main theme of the manga "hatred" it was kinda obvious she was going to be negleted.

 

 

Heroine? There isn't even a hero in this story. Naruto is the supposedly the "main character," but he is no hero. Sakura and Hinata are not heroine's and they stopped doing things late into the show...Sakura was a heroine at first, but Kishi changed his mind and Sasuke...well, Sasuke is probably the most convenient hero out of any character I have ever seen. He wants to do bad stuff, but all the "bad" he tries doing ends up being a serendipitous heroism. It is by far the worst aspect about him.

Even if he does nothing, just because he stood there, he is labeled the hero. He did nothing against Kabuto, that was all itachi, and he did nothing against Kaguya and he got thanked for that. All he did was be the other half of the seal and that was it.

Naruto does all the work, Sasuke got all the credit.

Naruto got the credit, the problem with Naruto is that his whole theme got all f**cked up, he saved the world not with hard work but with free power being given to him.

Naruto powerlevel increased way much when he became the "chosen one", his travels with Jiraiya meant nothing as he returned with almost the same powerlevel he left konoha, Kishimoto focused on his training during half of part 1 neglecting a lot of other characters.

In a way, Naruto was a hero but with his whole message destroyed up.

There was no hard work surpassing genius, only the bs about everyone is evil and eventually become good with a "Yeah... Sorry".

Edited by Sakamaki Izayoi, 17 November 2014 - 07:25 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Naruto got the credit, the problem with Naruto is that his whole theme got all f**cked up, he saved the world not with hard work but with free power being given to him.

Naruto powerlevel increased way much when he became the "chosen one", his travels with Jiraiya meant nothing as he returned with almost the same powerlevel he left konoha, Kishimoto focused on his training during half of part 1 neglecting a lot of other characters.

In a way, Naruto was a hero but with his whole message destroyed up.

There was no hard work surpassing genius, only the bs about everyone is evil and eventually become good with a "Yeah... Sorry".

And a character who didn't believe in destiny relied heavily on it.

[Diadochi]

All we have to do is go back to the beginning of the story and the answer given is clear. In their introduction, every member of Team 7 had a chapter named after them, everyone except Sakura. Chapter 1 is titled "Uzumaki Naruto", chapter 3 is named "Uchiha Sasuke", and chapter 4 is "Hatake Kakashi". But what was chapter 2 titled? "Konohamaru". It's clear from the beginning, that Kishi regarded Sakura as just someone to fill Team 7's vacant spot in order to make the team complete. Now, as time went on, Sakura became the most prominent female character in the series, but prominence doesn't always beget heroine status. I like Sakura a lot, but do I think she's a hero? No.

[MangaReader]

And a character who didn't believe in destiny relied heavily on it.

The hypocrisy is strong in Naruto

[Narufan85]

Heroine? There isn't even a hero in this story. Naruto is the supposedly the "main character," but he is no hero. Sakura and Hinata are not heroine's and they stopped doing things late into the show...Sakura was a heroine at first, but Kishi changed his mind and Sasuke...well, Sasuke is probably the most convenient hero out of any character I have ever seen. He wants to do bad stuff, but all the "bad" he tries doing ends up being a serendipitous heroism. It is by far the worst aspect about him.

Even if he does nothing, just because he stood there, he is labeled the hero. He did nothing against Kabuto, that was all itachi, and he did nothing against Kaguya and he got thanked for that. All he did was be the other half of the seal and that was it.

Naruto does all the work, Sasuke got all the credit.

 

 

This is what I'm inclined to agree with, sadly. Sasuke ends up appearing more heroic than the titular character. As someone else already posted in this thread, it is his emotional developments that drive the majority of Part II plot points. And in the end, it's Sasuke that gets the most important lines in 698 and 699. He's the one that ends up getting the girl.

 

What frustrates me is the transition Tricksie pointed out in the OP. I don't think I would have been as upset had Sakura been portrayed as a simpering, love-struck fangirl for the entire manga. Then, the easy resolution is each simpering fan-girl (Hinata and Sakura) get their man. But Kishi does show her growing, maturing, and forging strong bonds with Naruto only for those bonds to absolutely disappear in the final chapters.

 

[James S Cassidy]

 

This is what I'm inclined to agree with, sadly. Sasuke ends up appearing more heroic than the titular character. As someone else already posted in this thread, it is his emotional developments that drive the majority of Part II plot points. And in the end, it's Sasuke that gets the most important lines in 698 and 699. He's the one that ends up getting the girl.

 

What frustrates me is the transition Tricksie pointed out in the OP. I don't think I would have been as upset had Sakura been portrayed as a simpering, love-struck fangirl for the entire manga. Then, the easy resolution is each simpering fan-girl (Hinata and Sakura) get their man. But Kishi does show her growing, maturing, and forging strong bonds with Naruto only for those bonds to absolutely disappear in the final chapters.

 

That is probably the biggest disservice in this entire manga out of anything.

Naruto and Sakura who WERE supposed to be the hero and heroine respectfully had to be shot down to make Sasuke and Hinata be these "martyrs."

"Sasuke the martyr of hate and who is the real hero because he was willing to take the hardest struggles...even if those struggles he caused himself" and "Hinata, the martyr of love who did nothing more than lay her life on the line and kiss the ground Naruto walked on because she wasn't strong or good enough to be anything else."

I can't even begin it fathom any of it. What's worse is this manga towards the ends tells me I have to feel sorry for them and give them a pity case. Not even Romeo and Juliet were this big of cliched tragedy and that defines the very subject. All this...in a matter of two chapters and a movie.

Not only that, but every other character got caught in the crossfire and shot down for everything. Now even Kushina, who is by far the best female in the entire series, is being forcibly outplayed for this big-boobed bimbo all because of a stupid pairing choice. Minato now looks like a liar and stupid.

Kishimoto dissed Naruto's parents more than Obito did.



 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 17 November 2014 - 08:29 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Heroine? There isn't even a hero in this story. Naruto is the supposedly the "main character," but he is no hero. Sakura and Hinata are not heroine's and they stopped doing things late into the show...Sakura was a heroine at first, but Kishi changed his mind and Sasuke...well, Sasuke is probably the most convenient hero out of any character I have ever seen. He wants to do bad stuff, but all the "bad" he tries doing ends up being a serendipitous heroism. It is by far the worst aspect about him.

Even if he does nothing, just because he stood there, he is labeled the hero. He did nothing against Kabuto, that was all itachi, and he did nothing against Kaguya and he got thanked for that. All he did was be the other half of the seal and that was it.

Naruto does all the work, Sasuke got all the credit.

 

Pretty sad to think about for sure, James... X_X

[Miss Soupy]

I think Sakura was the heroine for the majority of the story, so she still counts technically as the main heroine. Based on chapters and development and plot importance, she's the heroine. The ending Sakura was just so badly OOC. It's like a totally different person. It's like...the Sakura we were first introduced to. I definitely think Kishi had to bump Sakura down in order to lift Hinata up, so that, at whatever point he made the deal for Naruto GT, he could pull off two pairings rather than one and get more spawn out of the next generation.

 

He sent Sakura off to fake confess to Naruto right after her 'I don't want to make any more mistakes'. How bad does that look? Pretty bad. Then he just needed a few more panels of her lamenting over Sasuke and he had SS all packaged up.

 

For NH he had Neji killed. That made that pairing. I feel really bad that a great character like Neji had to be sacrificed for Kishi to pull off a pairing, but that's what it looks like. It gave Hinata a moment of courage. One. And then Kishi could let her character fall back to umimportant as usual.

 

I mean, if you really want to, you can call Hinata a heroine. I've never really cared about her character myself...and to really have respect for her I expected her to become an awesome Hyuuga leader or something. I mean, for a shounen you almost expect more of a character than 'romance is my entire point'. I go to shoujo when I want to read about characters revolving around romance. Simply deserving Naruto because she always loved him - in a world of ninjas - never really...meant anything to me. But I guess some people find that compelling?

 

I also don't really care what's in the movie and how canon it is and how it makes NH more believable or whatever the point is.

Because Naruto is a manga.

[Phantom_999]

I'll be honest here. Kishi did not portray either as a heroine in the end, he devolved them into baby makers and that's it. It doesn't even have anything to do with them being mothers or house wives, DID Sakura or Hinata get any major dialogue besides just looking after their children? Did they have any lines that show a happy and healthy relationship to their husbands, or y'know saying anything to define thier lives at the end so that Kishi shows that he cares about them? He pushed them to the side in the end, plain and simple, which is just sad for a heroine. -__-

Edited by Phantom_999, 18 November 2014 - 01:00 AM.

[Broken Figurine]

Sasuke is more heroic than Naruto? Not in my interpretation he isn't. The hero and heroine were supposed to be Naruto and Sakura, just like how this whole manga was supposed to have a good story and whatnot. Just because the two weren't great at their roles, doesn't mean that others were better. Neither Hinata nor Sasuke make a better hero. The entire story just became a mess, and I held out hoping that the end would be worth it but I was... deeply surprised. Sakura's handling doesn't make sense to us because she had a shred of heroine material beforehand. I found stuff I liked about her, and I was disappointed in various parts of the manga because I felt it didn't hold up and then of course that stupid ending. If Sakura wasn't the heroine, I wouldn't have expected her to act like one. She's proven to me she can be, but the whims of the writer are like the autumn sky. 

[James S Cassidy]

Sasuke is more heroic than Naruto? Not in my interpretation he isn't. The hero and heroine were supposed to be Naruto and Sakura, just like how this whole manga was supposed to have a good story and whatnot. Just because the two weren't great at their roles, doesn't mean that others were better. Neither Hinata nor Sasuke make a better hero. The entire story just became a mess, and I held out hoping that the end would be worth it but I was... deeply surprised. Sakura's handling doesn't make sense to us because she had a shred of heroine material beforehand. I found stuff I liked about her, and I was disappointed in various parts of the manga because I felt it didn't hold up and then of course that stupid ending. If Sakura wasn't the heroine, I wouldn't have expected her to act like one. She's proven to me she can be, but the whims of the writer are like the autumn sky. 

You're right, Sasuke is not the hero and Hinata the heroine, but the way these final chapters are made up and the way this movie is going to portray Hinata and her "role" in this...it is almost like they are trying to make us see them as such.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 18 November 2014 - 06:27 AM.

[MangaReader]

You're right, Sasuke is not the hero and Hinata the heroine, but the way these final chapters are made up and the way this movie is going to portray Hinata and her "role" in this...it is almost like they are trying to make us see them as us.

It only took 15 years down the drain to do it 

[Radra]

I'm pretty sure that there was no real heroine as far as Kishimoto was concerned. I think he mentioned it that he did not really make Sakura out to be the heroine of the story. I will still call Sakura the heroine as she was part of the main character's team and she got the most development out of all the other women in the manga.

 

Hinata on the other hand is the main love interest. Just reading her databook 4 profile alone summarizes the reason for her existence in the manga.

[Pix]

Why is this even a question? 

 

Both of them aren't heroines because both of them aren't heroes. Sakura lost all of my hope when she showed lack of self-respect romantically and personally and Hinata killed Neji. I'm never changing my mind on this. I will fight you about it.