80 replies to this topic

[CloudMountainJuror]

He's saying he isn't good at romance to excuse the poor ending with nh/ss. Just a guess.

 

He said he was bad at writing romance quite a while ago as well, so I actually doubt this is the case.

Edited by CloudMountainJuror, 11 November 2014 - 01:23 AM.

[tricksie]

He said about two years ago he was thinking about the series ending. That would put it at about the time the RtN came out and when they started to plan for the next and last movie. So yeah, that would be about right as far as changing the pairing. It would be interesting to see when it lines up in the manga and what was happening. 

 

I'm curious to see which event was the beginning of the end.

 

As much as he coyly says he's embarrassed about writing romance...I'm not buying it. What happened with the manga went beyond bad romance. He didn't deliver on any of the characters' storylines. He just let it all go and ended it. The romance made the biggest splash, but my problems with the manga go far beyond that.

[harry4e]

Well the Interview was about as informative as the end of the series was. All it confirmed was what I've been saying all week, Kishi knew two years ago how he planned to end the manga yet still chose to string along fans of certain fandoms.

 

The fight between Sasuke and Naruto was something we've known about since the end of first part, so that didn't tell us anything new.

 

He felt embaressed about writing romance, yet he had no issue writing about Love? Brotherly Love, Love for your nation, Love for your teammates, love for theboy or girl you like, love for your child. The whole focus was about two children who wanted nothing more than be loved, one sought it out, while the other shunned it.

 

I can gaurentee if Bleach ended tommorow and lets say ended with Ichigo with that spikey haired tomboy childhood friend of his, and not Rukia or Orihime, the reaction would not be the same, because Love doesn't get the same focus in Bleach as it does in Naruto.

 

I just want to know what Kishi was thinking, Did he sell out? Did he choose it this way because he thought by having the next gen NS fall for each other, every fandon would win, or did he think Hinata would work better as a damsel in destress worth saving? Which if that is the case I'd tell Kishi to do his research a bit more, the best romance movies have fiesty heroine, Gone with the Wind, When Harry Met Sally, You've got Mail, I think the Princess Bride...the best Romance has chemistry, banter, humour, and opposites. none of which exists with Naruto/Hinata. Did he watch Twilight for inspiration or something? I've not watched it but it's prett much panned for having a lame love story.

 

In fact as much as a I like to take hits at SP, even they know that, look almost all the leading ladies Naruto movies, they all seem to butt heads with Naruto, because that is always fun to watch.

Edited by harry4e, 11 November 2014 - 02:34 AM.

[Nate River]

He said about two years ago he was thinking about the series ending. That would put it at about the time the RtN came out and when they started to plan for the next and last movie. So yeah, that would be about right as far as changing the pairing. It would be interesting to see when it lines up in the manga and what was happening. 

 

I'm curious to see which event was the beginning of the end.

 

As much as he coyly says he's embarrassed about writing romance...I'm not buying it. What happened with the manga went beyond bad romance. He didn't deliver on any of the characters' storylines. He just let it all go and ended it. The romance made the biggest splash, but my problems with the manga go far beyond that.

 

Me too. I know one obvious counter is that NS was a red herring, but up until Pein Hinata was largely MIA. Even her Teams's arc did nothing to push NH. Moreover, is that Kishimoto connects NS to Kushina, nearly mimics the MK back story, draws a virtual carbon copy of Sakura right down to the personality, connects it prior Team 7 romances over and over, Thus, it requires the belief that he'd spend more time developing the red herring than either primary pairing, especially NH when there is no excuse (Like with Sasuke) not to do so. He spent zero time developing the Naruto end of it to such an extent that it has to be explained entirely through supplemental material and retconning.

 

So yea, I get the feeling that he shifted gears at some point. I really care very little about what he has to say, except for that. I'd like to know when and that's about it. If it were two years ago why waste so much time building the parallels and why not find ways to develop Naruto's feeling. It's not at all obvious that he loves her romantically or why that is so. 

 

But yeah, I agree with the rest as well. After 693 I knew I would have issues with the ending no matter the pairing because I could not see how we to a pairing end game cleanly. Someone was going to have inexplicitly give up their feelings. I also agree with you that the ending resolves nothing of substance. No resolution to the cycle of hate, no serious battle of philosophies, just Sasuke staking out a position the audience would reject out of hand and that he quit on it when he loses. Switch the pairings and nothing else and this ending still blows.

 

I do love the line about trying to find quick answers and the characters not letting him. Is he serious? I suppose I'd like to know what he means by that because Part 2 is full of easy answers and dodges. 

[Greed-Sama]

 

I do love the line about trying to find quick answers and the characters not letting him. Is he serious? I suppose I'd like to know what he means by that because Part 2 is full of easy answers and dodges. 

 

My guess on this - he wanted to end the story earlier. But if he did, the story would have come out even more forced than it already was. 

[tricksie]

 

Me too. I know one obvious counter is that NS was a red herring, but up until Pein Hinata was largely MIA. Even her Teams's arc did nothing to push NH. Moreover, is that Kishimoto connects NS to Kushina, nearly mimics the MK back story, draws a virtual carbon copy of Sakura right down to the personality, connects it prior Team 7 romances over and over, Thus, it requires the belief that he'd spend more time developing the red herring than either primary pairing, especially NH when there is no excuse (Like with Sasuke) not to do so. He spent zero time developing the Naruto end of it to such an extent that it has to be explained entirely through supplemental material and retconning.

 

So yea, I get the feeling that he shifted gears at some point. I really care very little about what he has to say, except for that. I'd like to know when and that's about it. If it were two years ago why waste so much time building the parallels and why not find ways to develop Naruto's feeling. It's not at all obvious that he loves her romantically or why that is so. 

 

But yeah, I agree with the rest as well. After 693 I knew I would have issues with the ending no matter the pairing because I could not see how we to a pairing end game cleanly. Someone was going to have inexplicitly give up their feelings. I also agree with you that the ending resolves nothing of substance. No resolution to the cycle of hate, no serious battle of philosophies, just Sasuke staking out a position the audience would reject out of hand and that he quit on it when he loses. Switch the pairings and nothing else and this ending still blows.

 

I do love the line about trying to find quick answers and the characters not letting him. Is he serious? I suppose I'd like to know what he means by that because Part 2 is full of easy answers and dodges. 

 

Yes, and I go back to something you said here and earlier — why didn't Kishi use the intervening year(s) to properly develop the alternative pairings and resolve the storylines. And the Last movie is about love? Really? Because that's what Naruto's always been about? Mister I-Don't-Know-How-to-Write-About-Love is now doing a movie about it? Instead of wrapping up the whole series with a final Team 7 mission, touching on all the little things that were left open-ended, they've instead pushed Sakura completely out of the way, forced her to be irrelevant as well as a token love-interest for Sasuke, and now have to justify Naruto's interest in Hinata. 

 

But really, Kishimoto can't show Team 7 or reflect on any of the storylines from the manga because then it becomes painfully obvious the Hinata has no place in the picture. The only way it works for Naruto and Hinata is to get Sakura out of the way.

 

There were so many different ways the ending and movie could have gone down. So many different choices that were so much more respectful to the characters and story so far. I don't think I'll ever understand why Kishi did what he did, other than for money.

 

And interviews like this just make me feel even more certain that at the point that he decided to go NH with the ending, whether it was two years ago or longer, was the point he stopped caring about any of his fans, regardless of the ship, and the story itself.

[Nate River]

Yeah, that's a good one. I'm embarrassed to write romance...so here's a 110 minutes dedicated to the subject I just claim I was embarrassed about. Sure thing, dood. 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yeah, that's a good one. I'm embarrassed to write romance...so here's a 110 minutes dedicated to the subject I just claim I was embarrassed about. Sure thing, dood. 

HA!! It still is a bad idea what they're doing if you ask me, Nate. X_X It's gonna backlash on Kishimoto-sensei big time and likely affect any other manga he does in the future.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Yeah, that's a good one. I'm embarrassed to write romance...so here's a 110 minutes dedicated to the subject I just claim I was embarrassed about. Sure thing, dood. 

 

That pretty much equates to him going "I know I'm putting out a kitten product with this movie, but I really don't care".

[Gravenimage]

*trying to calm down* wow just wow so Kishimoto always intended for NH and SS all along yet he spent 15 years developing the relationship between Naruto and Sakura (which it wasn't friendship there was slow romance build up we all know that, even the Japanese fandom knows it too).

 

All I have to say is BULLSH*T! Kishimoto you are retarded you probably have your brain on your a*s. Because if you TRULLY intended for NH and SS to happen then should have develop those pairings with the same slow build up as NS in those 15 years NOT by making it in one chapter. And now you want to make a movie to fill in the holes from those horrible chapters. Let me ask you who the hell wants to see Naruto GIVING UP on something moving on from the girl he has always love and get together with a girl he hardly knows and has never loved??? Because I doubt the Japanese fans would want to see that, they weren't happy with the ending of the manga just like us. I think they shouldn't watch it.

[archangel]

So we now have a clear answer that when he said he had the ending clear in his head he had always meant the Naruto vs Sasuke battle , which was 698 . The other two chapters ,  which involved the romance part of the story , he completely made on a whim . He probably does not even understand what he has created with NS  ....

Congratulations for his 15 years. However...

 

Idk about that lol. I mean even if he didn't wouldn't it be story telling 101 to pair the main character with his love interest instead of giving her to the rival? Plus those Kushina and Minato chapter where really like IN YOUR FACE. I expected and ending like the last airbender, see an inspiring end like that. And this is what we got.

 

Either he is stupid, or since in his mind he finish at 698,he sold out the ending,but it is still so much waste.

[tricksie]

*trying to calm down* wow just wow so Kishimoto always intended for NH and SS all along yet he spent 15 years developing the relationship between Naruto and Sakura (which it wasn't friendship there was slow romance build up we all know that, even the Japanese fandom knows it too).

 

All I have to say is BULLSH*T! Kishimoto you are retarded you probably have your brain on your a*s. Because if you TRULLY intended for NH and SS to happen then should have develop those pairings with the same slow build up as NS in those 15 years NOT by making it in one chapter. And now you want to make a movie to fill in the holes from those horrible chapters. Let me ask you who the hell wants to see Naruto GIVING UP on something moving on from the girl he has always love and get together with a girl he hardly knows and has never loved??? Because I doubt the Japanese fans would want to see that, they weren't happy with the ending of the manga just like us. I think they shouldn't watch it.

 

Don't worry, I'm positive Kishimoto didn't intend for NH or SS all along. No matter what he says or hints. The manga is built around NS. It's their house. The proof is irrefutable. 

 

Here's the frustrating thing: the manga ended and there's a movie coming out. There's going to be lots of interviews, and Kishi isn't going to talk bad about or even give an honest opinion about his hopes for pairing. He's not going to kill the buzz around his own movie. 

 

But one day a long time from now, when the pressure's off and the anime spin off is wrapping up, Kishimoto will come clean. In fact, it may only come about when he is doing press for a new project — when it's in his best interest to try and persuade fans that he's not going to bait-and-switch at the end of this project too — that he felt some pressure to choose an ending that allowed the series to continue. 

[Paradox Jast]

So I haven't actually been totally keeping up with Naruto, because y'know - growing older and changing interests. I had figured it would be ending once the 'war' hit, so I'd read the few chapters every month or so.

 

Read the last 2 chapters, and I don't think I've ever facepalmed in so epic a manner in my life.

 

Sakura got together with the guy that tried to kill her not once, not twice, but three times?

 

... right.

 

 

I still adore Naruto as a character, simply because he is the personification of the word 'opportunity', but I started losing interest in the manga about 2 or 3 years ago, and kept up with it out of obligation. Still... just... wow.

[mangafan]

Thanks Kishi for giving an ending that makes me regret becoming a fan of this series.

[MangaReader]

I refuse to believe NaruSaku would ruin the chance for a sequel...

[Geninja]

 

Don't worry, I'm positive Kishimoto didn't intend for NH or SS all along. No matter what he says or hints. The manga is built around NS. It's their house. The proof is irrefutable. 

 

Here's the frustrating thing: the manga ended and there's a movie coming out. There's going to be lots of interviews, and Kishi isn't going to talk bad about or even give an honest opinion about his hopes for pairing. He's not going to kill the buzz around his own movie. 

 

But one day a long time from now, when the pressure's off and the anime spin off is wrapping up, Kishimoto will come clean. In fact, it may only come about when he is doing press for a new project — when it's in his best interest to try and persuade fans that he's not going to bait-and-switch at the end of this project too — that he felt some pressure to choose an ending that allowed the series to continue. 

 

You mean what Rowling did with Harry Potter admitting she should have had Harry/Hermione?

[soraandven]

you see how kishi exposed himself but the old man's got guts ill give him that

[Jinja14]

He doesn't say he's not good at writing romance. He says it makes him embarrassed. That's same thing he's said in another interview back in the day. Can we please stop with the Kishi bashing? This is so disrespectful. Regardless of the ending, he's slaved himself for 15 years and couldn't even go on his honeymoon! We can be upset about the ending without disrespecting an elder. 

I agree. Even though the ending practically ruined years of development, I don't think Kishi really deserves all of this harsh bashing...

[Illnevergiveup3]

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[Aslan]

First off, Congratulations Kishi!

 

Okay, passive answers for passive people, not ideal for an active situation such as this but I guess it depends which side your on. I mean, eventually it will happen, but I hope it happens sooner than expected that he admits the direction in which this manga was originally intended to go was influenced. Something at least. An explanation. That is all I'm clinging on to right now.

 

But its hopeless since the manga barely ended, there's an upcoming movie and part 3 is confirmed. Hence, I suppose he's going to be more reluctant in being open with these interviews and such, and he'll undoubtedly keep from exposing any feelings that might cause detriment to the buildup of this current situation. So these incoming interviews and what he has to say might be of no interest to me at all.

 

And lol @ "I am not good at writing romances because I feel embarrassed when trying to do so." I don't know how serious I should take the word of a man who threatens his own claims with a movie about that very thing. I fear that's about how far kishi will go in terms of shedding light on the situation. Furthermore, it's a testament to how much integrity these interviews are ready to give.

Edited by Aslan, 11 November 2014 - 02:09 PM.