286 replies to this topic

[rocci]

@darkrest
It cann't be help since this manga has a rivalry as the main story.

@tricksie
As soon as suigetsu tell the prisoners that sasuke is the one who will bring peace and order I thought that he is a "dark" messiah.

[Nate River]

This chapter left me scratching me head:

(1) How is it that the source of everything has Byakugan and Sharingan, but not Rinnegan? If it was created by merging the power of his sons how did the Sage get it and yet Kaguya doesn't have it? I'm hoping that Kishimoto gives it to her otherwise this doesn't make sense.

(2) Ninshuu: Awesome! I was worried we were being set up for another hole ridden lecture to the audience. Instead we get nothing other that it's different because I said it and just accept that it is you guys. It made connnections, somehow. How? What did it do? What did it look like? Who knows!

He's trying to portray this as the "When I invented this crap, I never intended it to be used like this and I am horribly offended that it was."

Only problem is that this massive non-answer makes it impossible to tell if the Sages descendants were that bad or if he was that dumb (especially given it's track record). Without any substance to this, I can't tell if was kidding himself or not. Right now it comes across as if the people who invented the atom bomb came and said "We had no idea this would be used as weapon."

(3) I guess this up the odds of Sasuke getting the Rinnegan.

(4) For those who kept telling me despite his murderous rampage he was at least seeking a good end: what the Sage described is what Obito was trying to do. It's basically the Matrix. Nothing good about that.

(5) Reminds me why I lost much of my enthusiasm for pairings. Everything relates to pairings, even the stuff that clearly doesn't.
 

Don't worry, KnS, you're not the only one. I hate Sasuke with a passion and he is by far the worst written character in history. As I said, he is a slave to the plot and whatever the plot needs him to be, he will become.

He's not even the worst written character in this series.

Karin holds that torch and it's not even close. When characters start turning his personal problems and tragedies into Tonight Show Monologue's (and that just when he's not ignoring them entirely), then maybe I will agree. At least they get taken seriously. He's characterization is problematic and inconsistent. Her's is downright offensive. Besides many the problems I see in his characterization are present with Obito as well. So I'd put them in the same territory.

I think Sasuke biggest issue is the "have my cake and eat it too strategy." He wants to set up these parallels with other villains and make certain to portray revenge as negative, so Sasuke wanders into the dark, but he also wants Sasuke to be accepted back into the fold by the end so he can't be too bad lest it generate a massive (and legit) what the hell just happened moment? So, we get this kid glove treated, meandering character.

And the rest is pretty much everything related to Team Not Seven. After all the noise about how Naruto an Sakura were a hindrance he creates them in short order. Yeah, makes total sense.
 

gree. It took me a few panels to catch on to what was happening. Naruto is the child of prophecy! Enjoy your status for three, two, one.... *whispers* now read the fine print about it being just about the bijuu. And then Bam! there's Sasuke. Sorry, Naruto, you're only one half of a f'd up whole, a hangover from sibling rivalry a few generations before you. But don't feel bad, you're just as special as Sasuke is!

It would be like reading Harry Potter (another child of prophecy), only to get to book seven and discover that the prophecy only applied to aspect of his life and that really to reach his destiny he must now partner with Draco (and that his destiny really had been equally foretold, only no one knew about it).

It didn't bother me as much because I've hated the child of prophecy bit from the beginning. It tends to add to the air on inevitability of this in addition to what is already present from the hero journey. It also dims how impressive his feats have been to this point because now it looks expect and that it was supposed to happen. It's not impossible, but it makes it real hard for me to reconcile that idea with the Naruto he is trying to sell, especially the last two weeks.

I know it's common, but I really ambivalent about concepts such as destiny and prophecy being introduced because of these issues. It's more interesting to me when those ideas are used to burn characters.

Adding Sasuke isn't shocking given how the conflict has developed. We the audience need to know how super awesome it is, so awesome that it's a conflict spanning generations, all the way back to the beginning (well the beginning we care about)! It's old hat by this point, hence my complaint last week. He can only over this so many times before I just stop giving a damn and I reached that point some time ago.
 

And yeah, I hated to see Naruto's genuine smile. I so feel like Sasuke doesn't deserve it. And Naruto saying they were great friends!?!?! Wha?! Am I reading the same story? Since when have they been 'great friends'? This, to me, is one of those lines Kishimoto throws in there to hand-wave over all of Sasuke's dirty work and all of Naruto's responsibility to hold his crummy friend accountable.

La-la-la! We're friends...so whatever Sasuke did, it's all okay now! La-la-la!

Pretty much all of those Naruto has converted suffer from some version of this problem. Thorny and complicated issues are for hand waves, not stories.

Responsibility and Accountability? What are those? I used to know what those were and then I read Naruto.

[Inferno180]

For anyone concerned over the possibility of some strange connection with kaguya to hinata, the main difference is right as hagomoro said.

We all thought kaguya was some dignified woman like mito who had a strong sense of justice. We though she ended the wars in her era for the prospect of peace, however this action as Madara said bred fear and discontent against her and those who followed her. In turn it caused others to want to fight and have protection against her, this was the reason they turned ninsho into ninjutsu after the sage taught them how to control chakra.

You all saw the panel of the wrapped people and what hagomoro said the infitine tysukiomi did? Kaguya did that. Kaguya became too obsessed with her own power and it caused people to fear her. She used her sharigan and byakugan to enforce others to follow her. Hagoromo said that madara is doing the same thing, like kaguya. Kaguya wasn't a good person she had good ideals but like Madara became evil. Madara broke the cycle of life by dying and being revived so he could do this. If anything Madara is like kaguya, both had life's in an era of war, sought to end it, had good ideals but became obsessed with their power. Madara isn't a parallel to kaguya but hagoromo is sure saying that what Madara and his mother are doing is no different.

Kaguya was evil, aside from possessing the sharigan, I doubt hinata is like the good reincarnation or even met the sage, I don't think there's a connection there.

Also I bet we will get a ns moment, given how naruto found out obito saved him, there should be some part with sakura as well. There should be a scene in the Kamui dimension. It's funny but there's something I feel may come soon with this chapter being the 4th in the volume.

Edited by Inferno180, 02 April 2014 - 03:25 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

Somebody in 2ch posted an interesting comment.

Remember when Danzo gave two options to Itachi? When Danzo spoke of them, in the background there were two statues. One is Ashura(the one behind Naruto on the cover), and the other was probably Indra(the one behind Sasuke on the cover). In the end, Itachi walked towards Ashura's direction.

I wonder what is the message behind this? That Itachi shares the same value as Ashura? Or that Itachi chose the little brother, which in this case will be Sasuke.

Edit: I just read a mind blowing mythology regarding Ashura and Indra.
Ashura is the god of justice, Indra is the god of power. These two gods are considered to have been rivals.

Ashura had a beautiful daughter Shachii. Indra fell in love with her and kidnapped her, and took her to his palace. Ashura becomes very angry and prepares to battle Indra. However, since Indra is the god of power, Ashura could not defeat him. But Ashura never gives up and keep on fighting. Indra fed up with Ashura's constant attempts, exiles him from the heavens.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 02 April 2014 - 04:21 PM.

[KeikoxYusuke]

I just hope this whole thing with that demon chick doesn't make the NH fans get TOO excited, it chapter had nothing to do with pairings, I think we are going to have to wait for the fight with Gai to be over first, and then, who knows? I can hope for a small NS moment, but after the fight with Gai, I expect more Rock Lee... I think he should have a time to shine too. 

 

Even though all I really want is more NS/NS becoming canon...I don't want the other characters to be left out of the focus. I think the minior characters are pretty much wrapped up right?  

 

Gai is still ongoing, Kakashi isn't done yet, and MInato has to leave Naruto with some parting words before he turns to dust. ( which is going to make me sad..I just know it, everything that has happened with Kishi's own father, I know he is going to make whatever MInato says as heartfelt as possible. I'm going to need some tissues.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Wait, I'm not sure if I'm reading it wrong, but is anyone saying that Sasuke got the exact same speech and dialogues from Naruto? Because that's not the case. Hell, if anything, it's more of a mystery from Sasuke's side because neither of them weren't smiling. Hagoromo cracked a smile and symbolically, only Ashura's side of the face did. Put it this way, Naruto and Sasuke ended in the same destination point, but their road were certainly different. No, only Naruto is still "child of prophecy", so don't get lost. That's why Naruto's side was shown only because it's all upside. Plus if you believe Sasuke is the same as Naruto, wouldn't you think Kishi would parallel the same answer side-by-side saying the answer, much like how in Bleach, Renji and Ichigo said the same line about themselves? No, because in this case, it's same to assume that Sasuke got a different from Naruto, but we don't know what is it. We just know that whatever it is, Hagoromo can hope Indra's reincarnations can finally cooperate Ashura's reincarnations and create a new life. Right now, it's all about Indra's or Kaguya's lifestyle, which it shouldn't be the case anymore. So the split can in fact happen, but we just have to wait and see.

 

Funny, who would actually think Sasuke begged Hagoromo to talk in simple English.

[Drica-chan]

 Byakugan has only been cited to explain the origin of the Sharingan, nothing more

[TouKen4Life3g]

 Byakugan has only been cited to explain the origin of the Sharingan, nothing more

As for that, I don't get it. Why are we going nuts? It's not even like anything has changed. Have you seen Naruto going shocking and think of Hinata? No. Paranoia is too strong and I am here to hopefully help people around here for this. Honestly though, the status I feel for outside fans is what AJ said in his review of MGSV intro, plain and simple.

 

This is ridiculous.

[Ausakura]

By this time you guys know that maybe we won't see Naruto's awakening, wich means no NS interaction, right?

 

The scene just jumped directly to Guy! Naruto's and Sasuke's rising from the dead were just those last two squares before the last page. And it says that in next issue we still will have more Guy action. It's a complete change of scenario!

I find this good, though. Keeps the suspense.

If NS scene happens right now, NH and SS fans would just drop the series, wich is no good for the sales.

At least I don't believe we'll see Naruto interacting with Sakura or Obito. I think that this will be left behind for the sake of progressing the story. What you think? Will we have NS scene? And, of course, Sasuke interacting with orochimaru and the others?

[Ausakura]

And I don't know about you guys, but I can't see a fight between Naruto and Sasuke happening anymore either.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Wait, I'm not sure if I'm reading it wrong, but is anyone saying that Sasuke got the exact same speech and dialogues from Naruto? Because that's not the case. Hell, if anything, it's more of a mystery from Sasuke's side because neither of them weren't smiling. Hagoromo cracked a smile and symbolically, only Ashura's side of the face did. Put it this way, Naruto and Sasuke ended in the same destination point, but their road were certainly different. No, only Naruto is still "child of prophecy", so don't get lost. That's why Naruto's side was shown only because it's all upside. Plus if you believe Sasuke is the same as Naruto, wouldn't you think Kishi would parallel the same answer side-by-side saying the answer, much like how in Bleach, Renji and Ichigo said the same line about themselves? No, because in this case, it's same to assume that Sasuke got a different from Naruto, but we don't know what is it. We just know that whatever it is, Hagoromo can hope Indra's reincarnations can finally cooperate Ashura's reincarnations and create a new life. Right now, it's all about Indra's or Kaguya's lifestyle, which it shouldn't be the case anymore. So the split can in fact happen, but we just have to wait and see.
 
Funny, who would actually think Sasuke begged Hagoromo to talk in simple English.

We all know it took a different asnwer but the difference is that Naruto and Sasuke will actually play a role on changing the world.
Sasuke has his vision and Naruto has his own and i highly doubt Sasuke would go for infinite tsukyomi because he said he was against that plan because of Itachi.(Which makes them both the child of prophesy but they have different visions and that's all).
My guess is that Naruto thinks cooperation and friendship will bring peace and Sasuke however it's not hard to think that he's going to rule with his power almost like Kaguya did.
And despite her being called a Demon he implied people live in peace though her rule i guess.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 02 April 2014 - 05:13 PM.

[Inferno180]

By this time you guys know that maybe we won't see Naruto's awakening, wich means no NS interaction, right?
 
The scene just jumped directly to Guy! Naruto's and Sasuke's rising from the dead were just those last two squares before the last page. And it says that in next issue we still will have more Guy action. It's a complete change of scenario!
I find this good, though. Keeps the suspense.
If NS scene happens right now, NH and SS fans would just drop the series, wich is no good for the sales.
At least I don't believe we'll see Naruto interacting with Sakura or Obito. I think that this will be left behind for the sake of progressing the story. What you think? Will we have NS scene? And, of course, Sasuke interacting with orochimaru and the others?

You don't think in this short time with naruto talking to the sage that while he was talking all the events occurred on the outside with the others? If anything, naruto and Sasuke getting up is a means if most likely symbolism this chapter. It's not granted that we won't see things from sakura and obitos side of naruto waking up. When you say stuff like "it's no good for sales" that's just going on the line of, well it's too hard to believe that Kishi would go out of his way to mess with pairings, he doesn't, if he did then there would be much more of a romantic mess than he has right now.

We will most likely get back to a normal timeframe but I'll say this, how can you imagine Kishi not putting in some reaction scene to sakura and obito being with naruto as he recovers and naruto at least having some talk with obito when there are others, thinking that hinata is a reincarnation of kaguya and yet how many people missed the notion that kaguya was kitten crazy like Madara is? She freaking used the infinite tsyukomi to stop rebellions against her.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

As for that, I don't get it. Why are we going nuts? It's not even like anything has changed. Have you seen Naruto going shocking and think of Hinata? No. Paranoia is too strong and I am here to hopefully help people around here for this. Honestly though, the status I feel for outside fans is what AJ said in his review of MGSV intro, plain and simple.

 

This is ridiculous.

 

Kaguya having the byakugan is certainly the least of my concerns or issues with this chapter. There was nothing, nothing in this chapter that had anything to do with pairings and anyone trying to use it as pairing evidence is just grasping at air. Although, I'm not really sure what the point of her having byakugan is, since it's not like it even holds a candle to the sharingan or rinnegan. I thought she might have a doujutsu that was maybe a culmination of all three or something, but I guess I was wrong.

[HauntedCake]

Responsibility and Accountability? What are those? I used to know what those were and then I read Naruto.

 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Kaguya having the byakugan is certainly the least of my concerns or issues with this chapter. There was nothing, nothing in this chapter that had anything to do with pairings and anyone trying to use it as pairing evidence is just grasping at air. Although, I'm not really sure what the point of her having byakugan is, since it's not like it even holds a candle to the sharingan or rinnegan. I thought she might have a doujutsu that was maybe a culmination of all three or something, but I guess I was wrong.

The only thing i can think about that part was, why the hell you would need a byakugan if you have a sharingan.

[TouKen4Life3g]

We all know it took a different asnwer but the difference is that Naruto and Sasuke will actually play a role on changing the world.
Sasuke has his vision and Naruto has his own and i highly doubt Sasuke would go for infinite tsukyomi because he said he was against that plan because of Itachi.(Which makes them both the child of prophesy but they have different visions and that's all).
My guess is that Naruto thinks cooperation and friendship will bring peace and Sasuke however it's not hard to think that he's going to rule with his power almost like Kaguya did.
And despite her being called a Demon he implied people live in peace though her rule i guess.

Pretty much. Madara's situation is like "out with the old" scenario. Sasuke's situation is the today and we have to wait and see how it will goes down once Madara is out.

 

Kaguya having the byakugan is certainly the least of my concerns or issues with this chapter. There was nothing, nothing in this chapter that had anything to do with pairings and anyone trying to use it as pairing evidence is just grasping at air. Although, I'm not really sure what the point of her having byakugan is, since it's not like it even holds a candle to the sharingan or rinnegan. I thought she might have a doujutsu that was maybe a culmination of all three or something, but I guess I was wrong.

It's just proving the fact that all origins' power come from her, since she is the one that started the new lifestyle: ninja.

[Otaru]

As for that, I don't get it. Why are we going nuts? It's not even like anything has changed. Have you seen Naruto going shocking and think of Hinata? No. Paranoia is too strong and I am here to hopefully help people around here for this. Honestly though, the status I feel for outside fans is what AJ said in his review of MGSV intro, plain and simple.

 

This is ridiculous.

 

And yet, some NaruHina fans are already making crazy assumptions... it's ridiculous.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Pretty much. Madara's situation is like "out with the old" scenario. Sasuke's situation is the today and we have to wait and see how it will goes down once Madara is out.

It's just proving the fact that all origins' power come from her, since she is the one that started the new lifestyle: ninja.

 

Which is why I thought Kaguya would have some kind of combined doujutsu that later diverged into byakugan and sharingan separately, if that makes any sense. But it's no surprise that I'm wrong, I've proven to be terrible at predictions, lol.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

I hope we do get to see Sasuke's conversation with the sage. We finally got confirmation or at least partial of it on what Naruto saw in his clash with Sasuke and that was Indra's presence after the longest time.  Sasuke's conversation with the Sage has chances of being shown even sooner than that actually.  I do believe it went quite differently from Naruto's.  The reason being he is Indra's reincarnation, and as such he shares Indra's views.  While Naruto gave his answer of knowing what it's like having friends and wants to protect them (as it reflects Ashura's view), Sasuke most likely gave an answer along the lines of "I alone will be the one to guide the people down the right path, as the one who is gifted with power."  Also, Hogaromo's response to Sasuke's answer really wasn't who one would respond Naruto's answer.  His facial expression also didn't look like he approved, unlike with Naruto.  However, the situation calls to give both of them power. What it is?  We'll see.

 

I can compare this with Sasuke deciding to fight in the war to protect the village.  Many assumed he turned "good", but it was more complicated than that.  The same reasoning is going on with Sasuke's conversation with the sage, when we were shown only the end of it.

 

I'm interested to see what happens back in the otherworld. Apparently, the transfer was a success, as such Obito and Black Zetsu will die.  Maybe Obito will have enough strength to send Naruto and Sakura back, or he can't and passes out immediately.  By the time Naruto wakes up, Obito could already be dead.  It will be bit sad to see, but the main issue is Naruto and Sakura will be basically stranded in the otherworld.  How are the supposed to get back, when the person who can transport them is dead?  Also, how will the other Rinnegan make it to Madara now, because we all know he's going to get it.

 

I think what Naruto's "good friends" isn't meant to be taken so seriously.  Naruto hasn't forgotten where he and Sasuke stand currently.  I believe he was just reassuring the Sage that he will do something about making sure he and Sasuke don't end up the same as the previous transmigrations.  It may sound cheesy, but to become good friends, one has to be a good friend first to the other person, and Naruto's been one for the longest time, and doesn't intend to give up on Sasuke yet.  

 

Can we talk about Sakura for a moment? I mean she's done a great job healing everyone and saving Naruto, but after this chapter I can't help but feel like Kishimoto is shoehorning Sakura off to be a background character once more healing everyone and watching from the sidelines while Sasuke and Naruto get all the glory and power ups. What about Sakura? Doesn't she deserve another power up of sorts like Naruto and Sasuke, so she can be on equaling footing with them? I know it seems kinda silly, but seriously I want Sakura to be shown as the heroine that she is! Not be put in the background and let the boys have all the fun, she deserves to be in this fight as much as them!

 

I don't want to believe Sakura will stagnate here either, and continue growing.  We just have to keep following the story, and hope something happens with her.  Well, we still have what I believe a more concrete parallel with Kushina coming at the least.  As much as Kishimoto uses foreshadow and parallels, to think 631 will be the only instance is unlikely.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

Which is why I thought Kaguya would have some kind of combined doujutsu that later diverged into byakugan and sharingan separately, if that makes any sense. But it's no surprise that I'm wrong, I've proven to be terrible at predictions, lol.

Well, I was surprised kept his words with Kakashi. Who knew he didn't retcon that. Lol.

I hope we do get to see Sasuke's conversation with the sage. We finally got confirmation or at least partial of it on what Naruto saw in his clash with Sasuke and that was Indra's presence after the longest time.  Sasuke's conversation with the Sage has chances of being shown even sooner than that actually.  I do believe it went quite differently from Naruto's.  The reason being he is Indra's reincarnation, and as such he shares Indra's views.  While Naruto gave his answer of knowing what it's like having friends and wants to protect them (as it reflects Ashura's view), Sasuke most likely gave an answer along the lines of "I alone will be the one to guide the people down the right path, as the one who is gifted with power."  Also, Hogaromo's response to Sasuke's answer really wasn't who one would respond Naruto's answer.  His facial expression also didn't look like he approved, unlike with Naruto.  However, the situation calls to give both of them power. What it is?  We'll see.

 

I can compare this with Sasuke deciding to fight in the war to protect the village.  Many assumed he turned "good", but it was more complicated than that.  The same reasoning is going on with Sasuke's conversation with the sage, when we were shown only the end of it.

 

I'm interested to see what happens back in the otherworld. Apparently, the transfer was a success, as such Obito and Black Zetsu will die.  Maybe Obito will have enough strength to send Naruto and Sakura back, or he can't and passes out immediately.  By the time Naruto wakes up, Obito could already be dead.  It will be bit sad to see, but the main issue is Naruto and Sakura will be basically stranded in the otherworld.  How are the supposed to get back, when the person who can transport them is dead?  Also, how will the other Rinnegan make it to Madara now, because we all know he's going to get it.

 

I think what Naruto's "good friends" isn't meant to be taken so seriously.  Naruto hasn't forgotten where he and Sasuke stand currently.  I believe he was just reassuring the Sage that he will do something about making sure he and Sasuke don't end up the same as the previous transmigrations.  It may sound cheesy, but to become good friends, one has to be a good friend first to the other person, and Naruto's been one for the longest time, and doesn't intend to give up on Sasuke yet.  

 

 

I don't want to believe Sakura will stagnate here either, and continue growing.  We just have to keep following the story, and hope something happens with her.  Well, we still have what I believe a more concrete parallel with Kushina coming at the least.  As much as Kishimoto uses foreshadow and parallels, to think 631 will be the only instance is unlikely.

A lot of people has been saying that Sasuke's answer is kept as a secret for plot purpose. Let's not forget that Sasuke has been "shady" throughout the war and one-by-one, we are picking them up and see where the final set of puzzle leads to. You know, it does explain why their clash always seem unique, especially back in VotE, with the odd sphere that somewhat resembles RS. That said if we gathered all the pieces of Sasuke's hints, it only further suggests that Sasuke is in fact the final villain.

 

Right now, the moment is too much to care about Sasuke and his goals. Madara is set to become Kaguya's "successor" as you may call it. Hagoromo can only hope things will finally change, so he's gambling on Sasuke. Hagoromo heavily approved Naruto as well as acknowledged him as a "child of prophecy". Things can finally change after all.