54175 replies to this topic

[rikakim94]

but the anime studio.. shueisha.. :/

 

Oh definitely studio perriot. Keep in mind that this is a japanese animation company that borderline bashes sakura and make hinata a Mary sue. 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

I think you're developing a bias for Part 1 Sakura's bad attitude towards Naruto. She wasn't any worse than those other tsundere heroines out there.

 

And when it comes to her support and respect towards Naruto that began way back in the Zabuza arc, or even the bell test. Just check the NaruSaku buildup to refresh your memory. Some highlights are when Sakura has her "What's this feeling?" by seeing Naruto's confidence, when she nearly forsakes the chunin exams to protect Naruto's dream (which is mentioned in the Kizuna books under love), when she yelled at Sasuke that "Naruto isn't a coward", when she was encouraging Naruto left and right during his battle against Kiba, etc.

 

Her feelings for Naruto in Part 1 might not be as intense as they are in Part 2 but they lay the foundation for the development during the time-skip.

No i'm not, I'm not saying she did a bad attitude towards Naruto, i'm just saying she was absent a bit when it comes to Naruto because her priority was Sasuke and that was part of her development, she was always for Sasuke, even hospital moments.

Her affection also was towards Sasuke anyway Naruto's love for her was unjustificable.

In fact none of their loves were justificable, neither SS or NS or even NH.

 

Yep i know that moment when she wanted to protect Naruto's dream and even later when she acknowledge Naruto's strenght on the chuunin exams, but that moment she kept for herself, did she talked to Naruto that she will protect his dream?

It's the same argument when people says "Hinata was the first person who acknowledged Naruto" yeah but she never approached him, then it's the same as nothing.

It's similar here, she kept that desire of protecting his dream in her mind but didnt showed that to Naruto later, the same when she acknowledged Naruto's strenght to later thank Sasuke for defeating Gaara when he lose, and she didnt thanked Naruto, she didnt approached Naruto to say "thank you".

She just glare at him from a distance.

 

So from Naruto point of view he never witnessed those moments, and that implies that he also never got her affection back them, it's proved thoughout the part 2, how he gets surprised when she shows affection towards him, how he always says that she strongly or truly loves Sasuke.

And being honestly sincere with you, she only truly acknowledged him when Sasuke left the village was when she said it out of loud that she acknowledges his strenght.

 

They werent intense obviously because her priority was Sasuke on her confession she was willing ot go with him, yeah she was only 12 and cant be blamed, Naruto's melancholy when he failed to bring Sasuke back and he could barely look at her face touched her to a point that she decided to be a strong kunoichi to help him, that for me was the strongest foundation of her feelings on part 2.

Because she saw how far he was willing to go for her.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 December 2013 - 06:08 PM.

[Hiraishin]

Hinata's pretty popular in Japan, if the polls are anything to go by. She consistently ranks quite high, especially for a minor character... But I heard she's pretty unpopular on the forums, places like 2ch and stuff.

As for Naruto's love being unjustified in Part One, I think it was justifiedat least more than NH and SS. Sakura did occasionally show care for him (including when he was aware of it), even if it wasn't always focused upon. But, just because someone doesn't consistently show affection for you doesn't mean you can't love them. You can love them for other reasons, too... Like the similarities Sakura and Naruro shared: desire for acknowledgement, yes, but they had other similarities. Plus character traits such as determination (which she showed in her fight with Ino during the chuunin exams). *shrug*

Edited by Hiraishin, 01 December 2013 - 06:10 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Hinata's pretty popular in Japan, if the polls are anything to go by. She consistently ranks quite high, especially for a minor character... But I heard she's pretty unpopular on the forums, places like 2ch and stuff.

As for Naruto's love being unjustified in Part One, I think it was justifiedat least more than NH and SS. Sakura did occasionally show care for him (including when he was aware of it), even if it wasn't always focused upon. But, just because someone doesn't consistently show affection for you doesn't mean you can't love them. You can love them for other reasons, too... Like the similarities Sakura and Naruro shared: desire for acknowledgement, yes, but they had other similarities. Plus character traits such as determination (which she showed in her fight with Ino during the chuunin exams). *shrug*

I didnt said only affections i said other stuff too.

NH was more justified than NS and SS, because on part 1 both did support each other, in fact despite it having less screen time, Hinata supported Naruto when he was afraid of failling before his fight with Neji and that oitment stuff and the chuunin exams.

Determination pratically everyone has that, minus Sasuke.

 

Inst just a fact of affections, Naruto got heartbroke also on part 1 by her showing to him that she loved Sasuke countless of times, it doesnt justify his love for her but does the inverse, also the POAl says it all.

 

In fact what NS lacked to be justified it got it on the ending of part 1.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 December 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[megi]

NH is more justified than NS? Naruto and Sakura DID support each other in part one 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

NH is more justified than NS? Naruto and Sakura DID support each other in part one 

They did supported each other, but huge amount of the moments where Sakura supported him, she kept it by herself not saying it out of loud or showing it him.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 December 2013 - 06:27 PM.

[megi]

They did supported each other, but huge amount of the moments where Sakura supported him, she kept it by herself not saying it out of loud or showing it him.

True, but how does that make NH more justifiable than NS in part one?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

True, but how does that make NH more justifiable than NS in part one?

I'll hold back and accept i was wrong on saying NH was more justifiable, i think it's due to they have a buildup on part 1 to proceed but it got discarded to develop NS in a way, i would say it had a setup of both being for each other on important parts, but it was destroyed dont get me wrong i dislike NH.

Since that time i believe another girl would show up in Naruto.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 December 2013 - 06:35 PM.

[megi]

I understand that maybe there was more reason for NH to develop in part one, I don't really see it as more justifiable than NS though. There are moments where Sakura does support him without Naruto ever knowing (protecting him the the forest of death, during the chuunin exam), I don't see how it supports NH though. I keep thinking of the time during Naruto and Kiba battle, and Sakura cheers on Naruto while everyone else doesn't believe that he is able to defeat Kiba (among other things). Of all the Hinata scenes in part one (and there aren't that many), of course that most of them would revolve around Naruto because that is what her character is. Being a main branch Hyuuga is only her secondary characteristic. In her scenes, Naruto supports her because that's what her character needs.

 

 And I know you don't like NH just curious about your statement.

[redragon88]

So from Naruto point of view he never witnessed those moments, and that implies that he also never got her affection back them, it's proved thoughout the part 2, how he gets surprised when she shows affection towards him, how he always says that she strongly or truly loves Sasuke.

And being honestly sincere with you, she only truly acknowledged him when Sasuke left the village was when she said it out of loud that she acknowledges his strenght.

 

So in your opinion Naruto's love for Sakura in Part 1 was unjustifiable because he never saw Sakura having a nice opinion of him since she kept it to herself? Am I right with saying that?

 

I get why you say that but I don't see an issue with it when you think back on the nature of Naruto's love for Sakura. Sure, he wants more than anything for Sakura to love him back, but what's the most important to him is to keep her happy.

 

If Naruto's love for Sakura was for his own self-interest then, as you said, it would be unjustifiable in Part 1 for him to keep loving her since it's very one-sided. But as it's been said again and again, Naruto's love for Sakura is very selfless. Naruto's ultimate aim is to see Sakura smile, and if that meant Sakura never loving him back then Naruto would accept it as long as he could guarantee her happiness.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

So in your opinion Naruto's love for Sakura in Part 1 was unjustifiable because he never saw Sakura having a nice opinion of him since she kept it to herself? Am I right with saying that?

 

I get why you say that but I don't see an issue with it when you think back on the nature of Naruto's love for Sakura. Sure, he wants more than anything for Sakura to love him back, but what's the most important to him is to keep her happy.

 

If Naruto's love for Sakura was for his own self-interest then, as you said, it would be unjustifiable in Part 1 for him to keep loving her since it's very one-sided. But as it's been said again and again, Naruto's love for Sakura is very selfless. Naruto's ultimate aim is to see Sakura smile, and if that meant Sakura never loving him back then Naruto would accept it as long as he could guarantee her happiness.

She lacked being more active and on most meaningfull moments she was absent.

It was corrected on the end of part 1, because she acknowledged Naruto's strenght and his efforts and that touched her and she vowed she would help him.

 

Naruto is mindblown thing, first he believes that Sakura deeply loves Sasuke and that her happiness is Sasuke even his flashbacks and her smile is connected to this guy, but he wants to confess and get in the middle.

 

IF Naruto's love for Sakura was for his own self-interest he would treat her as a property or someome who has a strongly infatuation and it's unhealthy, wishing for someome's happiness and protecting smile etc, it's not something exclusive for love, it can be done with friendship or show that a person is important and etc..

Naruto wishing this doesnt glorify his love for her, what glorified it is what he has done with actions.

and love is a bit selfish yes, Naruto has show sadness for her hugging Sasuke, has got heartbroken for her loving Sasuke and got jealous of her giving attention for Sasuke recently.

 

The summit is an example of this, Sakura wanted to be with Naruto because she acknowledged him as the best for her despite having feelings for Sasuke, Naruto could not bring to accept it(even being a little immature or rude by replying [this joke is not funny]) but he kept with (but how... you love Sasuke and etc...) it broke the moment totally and then he ended with (I hate people who lies to themselves), as some excuse to reject her(but for real we knew she wasnt trying to convince herself but rather the opposite), he said the obvious, "you dont love me" but didnt focused on the cause of it, he didnt asked for her why she was doing that, or tried to understand it, instead of saying "it's a cheap excuse".

He knew that there was something wrong, but he didnt allowed himself to reason with her, it's not an attitude of someome who wants to be with the girl, i literally give up on discussing about Uzumaki Naruto's feelings just because of that.

 

Talking about Naruto's feelings is totally complex because his actions nullify each other.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 December 2013 - 08:03 PM.

[redragon88]

@Dαrkrєrsŧ

 

Are you trying to agree or disagree with me because your opinion seems to be all over the place.

 

She lacked being more active and on most meaningfull moments she was absent.

It was corrected on the end of part 1, because she acknowledged Naruto's strenght and his efforts and that touched her and she vowed she would help him.

 

If Sakura was already openly active with Naruto from the beginning then there wouldn't be development for it to happen later. Think about the pacing and the necessity for characters to start low and then go high. It's basic story telling. I don't know what's your problem with it.

 

It wasn't "corrected" at the end of Part 1, it was meant to happen in that moment, and everything that happened beforehand (Sakura starting to respect Naruto) served as build-up for it.

 

IF Naruto's love for Sakura was for his own self-interest he would treat her as a property or someome who has a strongly infatuation and it's unhealthy, wishing for someome's happiness and protecting smile etc, it's not something exclusive for love, it can be done with friendship or show that a person is important and etc..

Naruto wishing this doesnt glorify his love for her, what glorified it is what he has done with actions.

and love is a bit selfish yes, Naruto has show sadness for her hugging Sasuke, has got heartbroken for her loving Sasuke and got jealous of her giving attention for Sasuke recently.

 

Dude, that's a ridiculous exaggeration. Most of the time people have an interest in someone because they have a desire for them to love them back and when that doesn't happen normal people just move on. I'm pretty sure that's happened to you as well and you don't see me claiming you viewed said people as property.

 

I know that selflessness isn't exclusive to just romantic love, I really don't know what point you're trying to make. What Naruto feels for Sakura is romantic love and he's very selfless with her, hence selfless romantic love. It's as simple as that.

 

Of course the love it's going to have some selfish aspects since Naruto has the desire for Sakura to love him back, but ultimately what's most important is her happiness. Therefore the main nature of Naruto's love is selfless.

 

Also, why are you claiming I said that Naruto's love is glorified just because he wishes Sakura to be happy? I never said that. Please don't put words in my mouth.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@Dαrkrєrsŧ

 

Are you trying to agree or disagree with me because your opinion seems to be all over the place.

 

 

If Sakura was already openly active with Naruto from the beginning then there wouldn't be development for it to happen later. Think about the pacing and the necessity for characters to start low and then go high. It's basic story telling. I don't know what's your problem with it.

 

It wasn't "corrected" at the end of Part 1, it was meant to happen in that moment, and everything that happened beforehand (Sakura starting to respect Naruto) served as build-up for it.

 

 

Dude, that's a ridiculous exaggeration. Most of the time people have an interest in someone because they have a desire for them to love them back and when that doesn't happen normal people just move on. I'm pretty sure that's happened to you as well and you don't see me claiming you viewed said people as property.

 

I know that selflessness isn't exclusive to just romantic love, I really don't know what point you're trying to make. What Naruto feels for Sakura is romantic love and he's very selfless with her, hence selfless romantic love. It's as simple as that.

 

Of course the love it's going to have some selfish aspects since Naruto has the desire for Sakura to love him back, but ultimately what's most important is her happiness. Therefore the main nature of Naruto's love is selfless.

 

Also, why are you claiming I said that Naruto's love is glorified just because he wishes Sakura to be happy? I never said that. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Neither just debate.

 

I think should not have used that term but i said it in terms that it justfied after that.

 

Naruto has a desire to love her back but why he backs her off then?

Saying Sakura loves Sakura, thinking that she can only be happy with him, even the smile part which is connected to Sasuke, how since he strongly believes she 's happy with Sasuke then why he hold those feelings when he wants her happiness the most why he doenst work it out to let it go and tries to find someome since he believes she's happy with another guy, it doesnt make sense.

 

And so? It doesnt justify or even make his love stronger, yeah nice a selfless love;

 

it's just that people say "Naruto's love is selfess" and so then? doesnt he want to be with her? he feels sad, jealous , heartbroken it doenst change.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 01 December 2013 - 09:06 PM.

[redragon88]

I think should not have used that term but i said it in terms that it justfied after that.

 

So you say that only after Sakura acknowledged Naruto at the end of Part 1 that his love for her was justified?

 

But what about Chapter 3? Naruto clearly said he then understood his reason for liking Sakura (the desire for acknowledgment). Wasn't it established back then that his love was indeed justified?

 

Back then Naruto realized Sakura's true nature. That despite her temperament she has a quality about her that Naruto found endearing since he could relate to it. Isn't that enough?

 

Naruto has a desire to love her back but why he backs her off then?

Saying Sakura loves Sakura, thinking that she can only be happy with him, even the smile part which is connected to Sasuke, how since he strongly believes she 's happy with Sasuke then why he hold those feelings when he wants her happiness the most why he doenst work it out to let it go and tries to find someome since he believes she's happy with another guy, it doesnt make sense.

 

My guess, Naruto believes he can make Sakura the happiest, so that's why he doesn't back down. If Naruto truly believed beyond the shadow of a doubt that Sakura would be happier with Sasuke I'm sure he would stop trying to win her over.

 

Naruto thinks Sasuke makes Sakura happy, but also thinks he's capable of making her even happier.

 

it's just that people say "Naruto's love is selfess" and so then? doesnt he want to be with her? he feels sad, jealous , heartbroken it doenst change.

 

He does have does painful feelings, but I'm not sure what you want to say exactly. It's because he puts his pain aside for the sake of making Sakura happy that it makes his love selfless.

[Paptala]

Don't mean to butt in, but I just wanted to say this:  You don't fall in love with someone because of what they do for you - you fall in love with someone based on who they are as an individual.  Naruto was able to learn more and more about who Sakura was as a person, and that's why Naruto's love for Sakura is more believable than Hinata's for Naruto.  Naruto actually got to know Sakura as a person, so I can believe that he started out with a rather juvenile crush in chapter 3 that grew to genuine and selfless love for who she was in chapter 183 (since part one spanned about a year in Naruto's world, and he interaccted with her a lot in that time).  Hinata barely interaccted with Naruto (just in one arc in part one), so I have trouble believing she knows him well enough to actually love him the way Naruto does Sakura.

Edited by Paptala, 01 December 2013 - 10:24 PM.

[Inferno180]

Don't mean to butt in, but I just wanted to say this:  You don't fall in love with someone because of what they do for you - you fall in love with someone based on who they are as an individual.  Naruto was able to learn more and more about who Sakura was as a person, and that's why Naruto's love for Sakura is more believable than Hinata's for Naruto.  Naruto actually got to know Sakura as a person, so I can believe that he started out with a rather juvenile crush in chapter 3 that grew to genuine and selfless love for who she was in chapter 183 (since part one spanned about a year in Naruto's world, and he interaccted with her a lot in that time).  Hinata barely interaccted with Naruto (just in one arc in part one), so I have trouble believing she knows him well enough to actually love him the way Naruto does Sakura.

 

Also just everything on Sakuras end to a bigger degree. She thought naruto was a pest but later saw everything he did. If anything, kishi writing events like her coming to completely trust him during the POAL and Sai's reveal only adding more of a revelation to her, theres got to be another event in which something big happens between them. As Naruto fell in love because of who Sakura was, he didnt care about her imperfections he came to love her as he liked her for who she was, Sakura on the other hand learned a lot more about naruto over the entire series.

 

In fact, its filler, its the episode Sakura's resolve in shippuden, Sakura has a flashback saying she fell in love with Sasuke but she could not remember when or why and that looking back she never even got to know him for who he truely was. Even in this flashback it had a lot and I mean a lot of the negative events between them before sasukes defection occured. It included stuff like him going berserk on Zaku in the forest of death, telling Sakura to keep quiet about the curse seal, just even striking the apples she tried to feed him and then he got up to challenge naruto. This statement was a filler, but it still makes sense in the context of the manga.

 

Sakura is simply growing up, what she does next involving sasuke, well its not going to be love oriented, she doesnt trust him. This was sakura, the girl who was always said to love him endlessly, well she doesnt trust him and still has the shock of what he tried to do to her. If anything, Sasuke almost killing her was in a way a form of emotional development on her, she saw the guy she loved and even admitted to loving him go as far to kill her without hesitation or remorse. Basically at this point, she can always be happy with Naruto involved but have some negative impact with Sasuke.

[redragon88]

Don't mean to butt in, but I just wanted to say this:  You don't fall in love with someone because of what they do for you - you fall in love with someone based on who they are as an individual.  Naruto was able to learn more and more about who Sakura was as a person, and that's why Naruto's love for Sakura is more believable than Hinata's for Naruto.  Naruto actually got to know Sakura as a person, so I can believe that he started out with a rather juvenile crush in chapter 3 that grew to genuine and selfless love for who she was in chapter 183 (since part one spanned about a year in Naruto's world, and he interaccted with her a lot in that time).  Hinata barely interaccted with Naruto (just in one arc in part one), so I have trouble believing she knows him well enough to actually love him the way Naruto does Sakura.

 

But that disregards what Naruto said back in Chapter 3 about understanding why he started to like her.

 

At the start of Chapter 3 it does imply that Naruto simply had a typical crush ("A cute girl that I like a lot"), but as the chapter progressed we found out that Naruto actually had a reason beyond the superficial to actually like Sakura. It's just that previously he wasn't sure of what it was, like when you have a feeling in your gut. Only after Sakura talked about wanting to be acknowledged is that it finally clicked inside Naruto's mind ("I finally understand why I like her").

 

Did Naruto fall even more in love with Sakura as time went on? Definitely. But to say that in the beginning it was just a typical crush is to disregard what Naruto said back in chapter 3.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Hinata is programmed, yes I said it, to only like Naruto due to his nindo. Nothing more, nothing less. Life and death situation doesn't count because that's everyone's auto care factor. Sakura literally went through almost all of Naruto's burdens, struggles, emotions, and foes. That's more than you can say for anyone, or at least in girl department.

One thing I would say is that a person can grow interest or start off with a crush if that another person physically saves him/her, intentional or not as well as making contact. One cannot just be inspired by his/her part of charcateristic. Even so, once that person takes interest, he/she will go through what that love interest struggles. This is why SS is doomed to fail in my book. Sakura just pops in with other girls that already likes him. She just so happened to be in the same team, but this way she learns how much a pain and cruel he can really be.

While she saw a nice part, she acknowledged that it was because of team and Naruto (mostly) that made him that way, hence she begs Naruto, not anyone else, to save him before the promise. It's the promise that made her gain development with Naruto only, not as a team one. I remember discussing someone here about you can get two types of development in one scene. Both of us will die, if it happens, is a development for Team 7 yet if one of them makes an individual move, example like Naruto kiss her forehead, then it's the second development. So that's my take and I would like to expand, but I'm heading home from work, so take care and stay friendly.

[BlueStarSaber]

 

Also just everything on Sakuras end to a bigger degree. She thought naruto was a pest but later saw everything he did. If anything, kishi writing events like her coming to completely trust him during the POAL and Sai's reveal only adding more of a revelation to her, theres got to be another event in which something big happens between them. As Naruto fell in love because of who Sakura was, he didnt care about her imperfections he came to love her as he liked her for who she was, Sakura on the other hand learned a lot more about naruto over the entire series.

 

In fact, its filler, its the episode Sakura's resolve in shippuden, Sakura has a flashback saying she fell in love with Sasuke but she could not remember when or why and that looking back she never even got to know him for who he truely was. Even in this flashback it had a lot and I mean a lot of the negative events between them before sasukes defection occured. It included stuff like him going berserk on Zaku in the forest of death, telling Sakura to keep quiet about the curse seal, just even striking the apples she tried to feed him and then he got up to challenge naruto. This statement was a filler, but it still makes sense in the context of the manga.

 

Sakura is simply growing up, what she does next involving sasuke, well its not going to be love oriented, she doesnt trust him. This was sakura, the girl who was always said to love him endlessly, well she doesnt trust him and still has the shock of what he tried to do to her. If anything, Sasuke almost killing her was in a way a form of emotional development on her, she saw the guy she loved and even admitted to loving him go as far to kill her without hesitation or remorse. Basically at this point, she can always be happy with Naruto involved but have some negative impact with Sasuke.

 

What episode was this filler?

[sushi.]

^Because that is what affected her. His nindo, his determination and drive encouraged her. To say Hinata knows Naruto as a being is speculation, because she has only shown understanding of one aspect of him. The rest is unknown, but I don't think she ever saw the rest. It's a nice headcanon, but going by pure logic there is a limit of how much you can know a person by hiding behind a tree+a handful of conversations.

Don't mean to butt in, but I just wanted to say this:  You don't fall in love with someone because of what they do for you - you fall in love with someone based on who they are as an individual.  Naruto was able to learn more and more about who Sakura was as a person, and that's why Naruto's love for Sakura is more believable than Hinata's for Naruto.  Naruto actually got to know Sakura as a person, so I can believe that he started out with a rather juvenile crush in chapter 3 that grew to genuine and selfless love for who she was in chapter 183 (since part one spanned about a year in Naruto's world, and he interaccted with her a lot in that time).  Hinata barely interaccted with Naruto (just in one arc in part one), so I have trouble believing she knows him well enough to actually love him the way Naruto does Sakura.

I agree with you very much. I think you fall in love with someone as a being, and how you feel when you're around that special person. That is more important than personality in my opinion. I don't quite like the "opposites attract" argument, because it can attract. But love is not that systematic and simple, it's a bit more messy and random. Anything can attract.

 

Naruto knows Sakura so well and is still in love with her. I think he would've found out by now if she was not the right girl for him.

Edited by sushi., 01 December 2013 - 11:32 PM.