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#301 Inferno180

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 02:58 AM

Actually when I was seeing this stuff earlier with the tree of power and Kaguya and how her son became the sage. Well for one thing I am happy kishi actually expanded on the sage stuff so now it at least makes sense why the sage was the first ninja, he was the first human born with chakra. But this stuff really isn't seeming full on forbidden fruit stuff to me and I'm catholic.

 

To me I'm getting a bit more of a Norse Mythology sense with this whole tree of life or power stuff, kinda reminds me of Yggdrasil, as the tree of life, this one in Naruto was a tree of power. I'm also getting a sense of Tales of Symphonia nostalgia here (a game I played a lot with friends in middle school) cause that game had a whole tree of mana between 2 worlds (well it was also called Yggdrasil in that game). The paintings of legend for some reason though remind me of zelda, like the wind waker styled ones, don't know why but the imagery seemed in line with a great hero of the past, faces a demon, etc.

 

I don't mind the tree stuff, but this gives a whole new reason to not screw with nature.



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#302 SkiesEagle

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:05 AM

Actually when I was seeing this stuff earlier with the tree of power and Kaguya and how her son became the sage. Well for one thing I am happy kishi actually expanded on the sage stuff so now it at least makes sense why the sage was the first ninja, he was the first human born with chakra. But this stuff really isn't seeming full on forbidden fruit stuff to me and I'm catholic.
 
To me I'm getting a bit more of a Norse Mythology sense with this whole tree of life or power stuff, kinda reminds me of Yggdrasil, as the tree of life, this one in Naruto was a tree of power. I'm also getting a sense of Tales of Symphonia nostalgia here (a game I played a lot with friends in middle school) cause that game had a whole tree of mana between 2 worlds (well it was also called Yggdrasil in that game). The paintings of legend for some reason though remind me of zelda, like the wind waker styled ones, don't know why but the imagery seemed in line with a great hero of the past, faces a demon, etc.
 
I don't mind the tree stuff, but this gives a whole new reason to not screw with nature.


Funny when you say that. All the tree stuff going on about myths such as any others relate to. It samiliar that way you said.
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#303 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:15 AM

So the Six Path is from another clan altogether. It begs the question what did the beasts see in Naruto. How can he be the new six path? I think we will get more on this soon. The Juubi and all.



#304 Derock

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:25 AM

So the Six Path is from another clan altogether. It begs the question what did the beasts see in Naruto. How can he be the new six path? I think we will get more on this soon. The Juubi and all.

 

Well, basically Six Paths and Mama Kaguya are another clan/bloodline. When he had kids, well, you get the idea. I wasn't even kin of the Six Paths having last name Senju/Uzumaki/Uchiha/w.e. because it felt unoriginal to begin with. I mean seriously, everyone who is descendents isn't going to have the same clan/bloodline forever as time went forward.


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#305 Mistraal

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:26 AM

Something else that occurs to me. It says that the humans didn't know why but that had been told (it doesnt say by whom) to never touch the fruit.

 

 

Dat Fruit

 

 

But then it says Kaguya "thought it would be best of someone attained a godlike power."

 

 

 

 

But how?

 

 

 

Ok. How did she knew the fruit gave power if humans were just told by....someone....not to touch it?  :ermm: For all she knew it contained bees.

 

Man, the more I read this chapter the more I want to throw it out a window.


Edited by Mistraal, 11 September 2013 - 03:27 AM.

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#306 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:28 AM

 
Well, basically Six Paths and Mama Kaguya are another clan/bloodline. When he had kids, well, you get the idea. I wasn't even kin of the Six Paths having last name Senju/Uzumaki/Uchiha/w.e. because it felt unoriginal to begin with. I mean seriously, everyone who is descendents isn't going to have the same clan/bloodline forever as time went forward.

True. It's funny that the mother is the one to give birth to a powerful child which Naruto gone through as well. I just wonder what the beasts see in Naruto. It feels like the cycle restarts with Naruto but I don't know. The anime episode just came out and they really said that he's like the next gen six path. I'll just wait.

#307 StriderC

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:37 AM

Something else that occurs to me. It says that the humans didn't know why but that had been told (it doesnt say by whom) to never touch the fruit.
 
 

Dat Fruit

 
 
But then it says Kaguya "thought it would be best of someone attained a godlike power."
 
 
 
 
But how?

 
 
 
Ok. How did she knew the fruit gave power if humans were just told by....someone....not to touch it?  :ermm: For all she knew it contained bees.
 
Man, the more I read this chapter the more I want to throw it out a window.


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#308 Darth Krypt

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:40 AM

So now a devil fruit is in the Narutoverse too. It even looks like one. Kishi....


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#309 Nate River

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:41 AM

Ok. How did she knew the fruit gave power if humans were just told by....someone....not to touch it?  :ermm: For all she knew it contained bees.
 
Man, the more I read this chapter the more I want to throw it out a window.


Given what he's ripping from he might as well have said God rather just gliding past the whole thing. Also does anyone know why only the Uchiha seems to know this despite him having two sons? And didn't Sasuke see some table in the compound at some point? Also if the tree could turn into a sentient being...well it's component are for some reason...it just seems mindless...why was it producing fruit it didn't want people to eat in the first place?

I wonder if she ended the conflict by laying waste to all the opposition. It doesn't say. There is a just a picture of people appearing to worship her, which tells you nothing.

#310 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:50 AM

Not going to lie, but reading the history part or looking at them reminds me of Legend of Zelda Wind Waker opening, explaining the story of Ocarina of Time. Funny how the game is coming out as well. Timing!

#311 harry4e

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:58 AM

So the Six Path is from another clan altogether. It begs the question what did the beasts see in Naruto. How can he be the new six path? I think we will get more on this soon. The Juubi and all.

 

Well considering the two main clans that formed from the Sage did not take the Ootsutsuki name, it's no surprise that the Sage's surname would not be Uzumaki, specially when you look at the history lesson we were just given.

 

Just because he doesn't have the same name doesn't mean he isn't a heir of the Sage, the guy was around hundreds possably thousands of years ago, actually considering noone knew of the source of Chakra, it's likely to be thousands of years ago. I think the Beasts saw the Sage within Naruto, one with the same outlook on life, the same compassion, and probably the same lack of common sense.


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#312 narusakuforlife1667

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:11 AM

WOW

im impressed and i actually was excited to see the third hokage and naruto scene im hoping for the third and naruto having a little chat about old times oh and the sasuke scene i got curious like what is sasuke thinking but i was like :umm: when i saw mostly everbody lifeless then sakura popped up and i was all like :jawdrop:  :w00t:  :thumb:  :D  go girl!! im also waiting for narusaku moment!! :wibble:  :boogie:  :sakura3:  :naruto5:  :smug:


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#313 Inferno180

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:17 AM

 

Well, basically Six Paths and Mama Kaguya are another clan/bloodline. When he had kids, well, you get the idea. I wasn't even kin of the Six Paths having last name Senju/Uzumaki/Uchiha/w.e. because it felt unoriginal to begin with. I mean seriously, everyone who is descendents isn't going to have the same clan/bloodline forever as time went forward.

 

Techically there were no Ninja clans before the sage, just plain human warriors.

 

If we want to get down to it, the basic timeline is like this:

 

-Era of endless war (More than 1000 years ago): as Obito and Madara have said the world was in a state of endless war, many kingdoms rose and fell in an endless cycle of violence. Humans constantly killed humans. The god tree however was a great structure and seen as a holy pillar, no people would mess with it due to the legends of the wrath the tree would pose. One such war eventually arose and threatened the kingdom of the princess Kaguya, when this war occurred the fruit of power grew on the god tree as it occurred once every 1000 years. Kagyua took the fruit and ate it gaining what people considered holy power. She was able to protect her people and end the war.

 

-Era of the Sage of the Six Paths (About 1000-approx 930-900 years ago): A set time after ending the War, Kagyua gave birth to a son named Hagoromo. Hagoromo was born with the power of chakra within himself, the first human to have chakra born into him. Inhering the powers of his mother, he not only became stronger but was viewed ultimately as a god. Because Kagyua took the fruit of power from the tree, it was angered. The god tree turned into the juubi intent to get its power from her and her son back. Fortantely even though he was only a priest, Hagoromo was actually able to wield this great power he was born with, including mastery over light, dark, creation, destruction, elements of fire, earth, wind, water, and lighting. Hagoromo was also in possession of a first type of eye due to these powers, the Rinnegan. (Its unknown if he was born with the rinnegan or if he obtained the rinnegan was formed from sealing the juubi in himself). As Obito's story has told, the time the juubi appeared it caused great devastation and was causing destrution to all in its way, though using his great power, Hagoromo was able to defeat the beast and sealed it within himself. With the threat of the Juubi contained, he was praised as a hero and a god. Over the course of his life, Hagoromo, now known as the sage eventually married and his wife gave birth to two sons, the first had special eyes similar to his own while the younger son had special physcal powers within his own body. Over the time of his own life, the sage taught the ideals of chakra to his own sons and many other people. The people he taught would eventually be the start of several future ninja clans. Above all the sage wished for peace, however it would never come within his era, as Madara noted, the time when Kaguya saved her own kingdom, it caused others to become scared and angry and eventually the aspect for ninjutsu and power would do the same. For as powerful as the sage was though, he was still human. When he died his own seal would break and the juubi would be free on the world again, to prevent this, near the end of his life he separated the body and soul of the demon, took the body and encased it in tremendous portions of earth and flug the body into the heavens, it would be the prison of the juubi's body now gedo statue it would remain there until madara managed to summon it. The spirit however was shattered into 9 portions, creating the 9 tailed beasts. (What follows is what we see in the manga including kurama's flashback of the farewell, and the story of his final words for which son would succeed him and death at last which ultimately starts the old Senju uchiha rivalry because the older son (uchiha) attacked the younger son (senju))

 

-its worth noting around one of the first two eras, the great eleder toad sage was born, he is 1000+ years old.

-The 5 elemental nations can exist at any point during the older ages, they did in the warring clans era though

 

-The gapping centuries (from the death of the sage until the era of warring clans, about 900 or so years)- This isn't an era, rather its the gap of time between the era of the sage and the era of warring clans in which hashirama and madara are born into. a few things occur over these centuries.

1. The tailed beasts grow and come to be seen as sources of power, they gain fearsome repuations. Kurama comes to hate humanity, humanity considers him a natural disaster as he appears in and out of history whenever human malice and hate festers in conflicting times.

2. The genetic diversity of the ninja clans takes effect and increases, over generations the Senju, Uchiha, and many other clans begin to emerge. The Senju gain their wood style, the Uchicha their shargians, and other new clans are born as well. A portion of the senju would eventually become the uzumaki clan, others like the sarotobi, nara, yamakna, and akamichi clans come into existance too, most unrelated to the sage. (Its unknown if the Hygua clan branched off in the same was the uzumaki did or if it began as a seperate one like most others. If at one part it was connected to the uchiha, it became so diverse due to the strict order of the hugya that it became so genetically distant it lost its ancestral heritage never being associated with the oldest powers again. Otherwise it began like most other clans and was never involved with the sage).

3. Technology advances- the naruto universe doesn't have full on tech like we have seen, but there is still ample technology seen in the main series which is comparable to what we have, give take 10-20 years behind. Its hard to put on cause we have seen securtiy cameras, wireless radios, laptops, and a few other types of technology around the naruto universe.

 

-Era of warring clans- (80 years at best ago, approx 920 years after the sage)

In this time the ninja are reather mercenary clans, the dominant fighting force is the samurai. The era was a plagued one in which the life expectancy was only around 30 due to constant deaths from civilians and children. Fuedel lords hired the ninja clans to do their work. It was a dangerous time because no one could reveal their surname (last name in western customs). Among the most famous of the clans was the Senju and Uchiha and how evenly rivaled they were. One was hired, the opposite was hired against them. Among the manga this is the period of events in which Hashirama's past with madara is revealed as between chapters 618 and 626 and details the creation of the villages. After the villages are built, the ninja slowly become more powerful, able to be trained faster and more effectively, most nations begin to switch over their military forces from Samurai to Shinobi, save the land of iron which would remain a neutral independent nation with power comparable to the others. The land of fire sets up their own ninja village first, the others soon follow. The villages would serve 3 points:

-A concentration of military power for a nation

-A village like all others where people can work and live normally, essentially cities which were also military concentrations, this was also to remove the fear of the chaos of the warring clan era. The villages themselves would let people live, and children to have their own childhoods.

-The villages would function as normal cities as well, save the military concentrated power, the villages were also economic centers and living places like most others. People worked, children went to schools (the ninja academies also taught basic general subjects like math, science, writing, etc). The ninja system established would also have a kage, an appointed commander, leader, and representative of the village and in part a representative under the ruling fuedal lord of that nation. The title of kage was for both military and political reasons.

 

-Note Kakuzu was born in this era, he is 91.

 

-Era of the villages (the villages should have existed about 80 years about so far, about 1000 years after the sage at present)

 

-the current era, the majority of the naruto story takes place here.

-The ordeal of how long the villages have existed is never touched upon, Hiruzen the oldest ninja from the leaf and Kakazu the oldest human character born before even Hashirama, it is estimated between 70-85 years at most the villages have existed, Hasirama and Tobirama, their ages and times in office as kage is never touched upon and makes this only able to be a relative guess. The villages are older than 50 due to the sannin and Hiruzen, especially Mito Uzumaki as well who lived well into the time Kushina was a child. Exact time is unknown but using the ages of those we know and estimating off others like Mito and using Kakuzu as the limit, we can find a relative time spectrum of the villages having existed for around 80 years.

 

This is the timeline at base.



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#314 redragon88

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:20 AM

Maybe I have a totally warped view on things but just because you had a baby doesn't mean you're now deserving of admiration of praise for actions it will take later on in it's life.

 

You do. You have a tunnel vision with "Kishi is sexist" so you look for anything to validate that concept. What most of us saw in Kaguya was a woman who saw a never ending conflict between people and wanted to subdue it for a better future. While her actions had consequences her intentions where good. And nobody is giving her credit for what Harogomo did. I don't know what made you think that.

 

It says she "ended all the conflicts." How? It wasn't though ninjutsu because her son invented that. This is extremely ambiguous and definitely needs more exposition but I highly doubt it will get any. I'll eat those words if I'm wrong but I'm betting the majority of the focus will be on her son. My prediction is that she'll turn out to be a gigantic Relena Peacecraft if she gets any focus at all.

 

I'm pointing out the painfully obvious pattern of Kishi giving women the short end of the stick in this particular manga. I know that bothers some but it doesn't change the fact that if a women is pointed out as being powerful in any respect then she will be, without an exception in the ENTIRE MANGA (call me on this one if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm right), weaker in comparison to her male counterparts. This goes for the Sannin/Tsunade as well.
 

 

The bolded. What is there to know? There was war and she wanted peace, so she thought the best way to achieve it was through attaining the chakra powers. Do you think she was some dictator? That's thinking negatively too much. The theme Madara brings up is how humanity no matter what methods they use to achieve peace always end up turning back to war, and that's what's associated with Kaguya. If you see it through a neutral perspective instead of having this mental expectation of "Kishi is sexist" it would be very easy for you to notice.

 

I won't deny you that there's a pattern of women being somewhat weaker, but do you really think Kishi does it on purpose? It could all just be a simple coincidence, you know? It might be from the nature of writing a shounen (you know, a boys manga), so he would just instinctively focus on writing male characters.

 

But as you said, even though the male counterpart might be stronger, he regardless makes some female characters to be strong and resourceful. Two of the five villages have Kunoichi leaders, and during the war Kishi has taken the time to draw both male and female ninjas.

 

This isn't Dragonball Z where every single fighter was a guy (with the exception of #18). Kishi, despite being more oriented to showing off the guys (given the intended demographic of Naruto), does show that being a ninja is not only a male thing to do. Even if you feel he should give girls more power at least you should acknowledge that he doesn't think females are too delicate for the ninja work and should just stay at home.



#315 Branden

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:23 AM

I think Kishi has ran out of ideas. The Juubi is now a tree and magical fruit gives people super powers..... I just don't even know what Kishi is thinking at this point. Do you think maybe Kishi decided to betray his own work and completely change the ending on a whim? I don't see any other way for him to think this was a good idea.

 

In any case I just hope the Juubi arc ends soon, this is just becoming trainwreck after trainwreck with a few shining moments in between to give us hope.


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#316 rocci

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:35 AM

@mistraal
What do you expect from a battle manga who focus on boys relationship in the magazine with demographic of boys teen who the author himself tell that he isn't good in writing female character?

@nate
Try to read this manga with 13 years old mind, I think it more enjoyable.

Oh about sakura, I like her character and she's the heroine of this series, but in shonen manga (especially jump) just because she's a heroine, doesn't guarantee her to get the focus in this manga.

Just my opinion.

#317 narusakurama

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 05:30 AM

Something else that occurs to me. It says that the humans didn't know why but that had been told (it doesnt say by whom) to never touch the fruit.

 

 

Dat Fruit

 

 

But then it says Kaguya "thought it would be best of someone attained a godlike power."

 

 

 

 

But how?

 

 

 

Ok. How did she knew the fruit gave power if humans were just told by....someone....not to touch it?  :ermm: For all she knew it contained bees.

 

Man, the more I read this chapter the more I want to throw it out a window.

 

Wow ... is it just me or does this whole story also imply that Kaguya became pregnant after eating the fruit and the sage of the six paths is actually the son of the Juubi ????


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#318 Chatte

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 06:28 AM

ABout Kimmimaro and Hagoromo clan or whatever.

I don't think they're related by the name itself as Kaguya was the first name in the princess's case and with Kimmimaro, it was his last name.

Same with the Sage.

Hagoromo was his first name and Ootsutuski or whatever, was his last name, same as his mother.

It's Kimmimaro Kaguya and whatever Hogoromo

And with the princess it's Kaguya Ootsutsuki and Hagoromo Ootsutsuki...

 

As for Sakura, I think she has some sort of link that affected her, with the Alliance seeing as Tsunade could previously feel about the others and all that.


Edited by Chatte, 11 September 2013 - 06:28 AM.

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#319 Transformers03

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 06:28 AM

It is funny to me to see people so work-up with the story, calling it stupid and being the last straw for them for the series.

Yet I can't help but say to myself "THIS is where you draw the line?!?!?" I'm not saying that it isn't dumb, though compared to other things that have happen in Naruto since the entire war saga, THIS is where Naruto goes overboard and gets stupid.................

I just find that hilarious to see people's tipping point, and how much they can deal with a certain series BS.

But still, it's NARUTO!!!



#320 DattebayoXShannaro

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 07:01 AM

ABout Kimmimaro and Hagoromo clan or whatever.

I don't think they're related by the name itself as Kaguya was the first name in the princess's case and with Kimmimaro, it was his last name.

Same with the Sage.

Hagoromo was his first name and Ootsutuski or whatever, was his last name, same as his mother.

It's Kimmimaro Kaguya and whatever Hogoromo

And with the princess it's Kaguya Ootsutsuki and Hagoromo Ootsutsuki...

 

As for Sakura, I think she has some sort of link that affected her, with the Alliance seeing as Tsunade could previously feel about the others and all that.

 

I never made the connection between Kimimaro and Kaguya.  I'm not surprised there's no actual lineage.

 

Bolded:  I've actually pointed that out a couple times now.  The alliance is losing Chakra, Katsuya's clones try to replenish it, but the drain is too fast.  Sakura ends up sensing many of the alliances' lives end in succession.  The mental feedback would be enormous.  You're not okay when something like that happens.

 

 

True. It's funny that the mother is the one to give birth to a powerful child which Naruto gone through as well. I just wonder what the beasts see in Naruto. It feels like the cycle restarts with Naruto but I don't know. The anime episode just came out and they really said that he's like the next gen six path. I'll just wait.

 

Not to mention the Juubi saw the image of the sage when looking at Naruto.


Edited by DattebayoXShannaro, 11 September 2013 - 07:06 AM.





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