Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

Honestly the more I think about Sasuke should have been the final opponent of the series, he should have had a story arc more like that of Harry Osborn in the Sam Rami trilogy. Be Naruto's enemy for a bit have a fight, learn he was wrong

and help him in the final battle to redeem himself. Whether or not he dies like Harry I think is up for debate.

I like that. Or show him starting to be like that over time, how he feels bitter and empty even after "beating" Itachi because while he hated him for the massacre of their clan AND the attention he got from their father, we know Sasuke loved and admired Itachi, wanting to become a great ninja like he was. So I figure that "beating" Itachi would get Sasuke to realize his hate and jealousy are what motivated him most of all, which could be like what Harry realized when Bertrand told him what really happened to Norman near the end of Spider-Man 3, and how Harry had his chance to redeem himself, especially since he was so misguided in his anger at what happened when he learned Peter was Spider-Man, supposedly killed his father, and the fact Peter while bonded to Venom came at him for payback and ended up scarring him too.

See, Iruka could had a much more impactful event during the Pain attack, unlike a certain Hyuga who came out of nowhere (also acting like a selfish, lovey-dovey dumb b****) because that's what "the fans" wanted. No, that wasn't what the actual fans wanted in the first place because someone (I bet it was the editor at the time) wanted Hinata for "better" relevancy and to start rile shipping fans. Ignoring the fact that she wasn't even that high of the list in terms of Naruto's important people. 

 

Replace Hinata and that goddamn confession part. Add in Iruka, he can make a great speech about Naruto to provide more impact/heartwarming/approaching suspense to the readers, knowing that he's in "danger of being killed off". Goes in to attack but then Pain counters and stabs him, similar on what he did to Hinata. Cue Naruto becoming 5+ Tails.  

 

Same result but better impact and value to audiences. Not to mention to bring back Iruka to relevancy, in regards of popularity. 

Exactly! I can imagine Iruka just having a sixth sense moment after helping with evac, and that he just rushes as fast as he could. After all, Konohamaru was similar, since he came to Ebisu's rescue, and he showed just how much Naruto taught him when he showed he learned the Rasengan from him.

And yeah, I totally feel this was the work of Kishi's editors trying to butt in and put too many hands in the cookie jar with the story. Now I think for my fanfic, I wanna do that with Iruka, but what would be different is Naruto going berserk, mostly because he and Kurama would have a rocky, but growing steadily bond after earlier stuff, and that they both feel rage, Naruto feeling it from all Pain/Nagato did to the Leaf as well as killing Jiraiya, Kurama feeling it due to his refusal to be anyone's puppet anymore, leading them to sync up and become a different kind of tails level than just the kind of standard 5 tails he DID take in canon.

 

You know part of me always wondered why Obito when he was naruto's enemy didn't try to go after sakura to try and break him, since the team 7 similarities to his team were obvious but it was never brought up. Part of me wonders if kishimoto was originally supposed to make a situation where it looks like Sakura has supposedly "died" in a similar manner to Rin in front Naruto in went Naruto begins to feel despair, but doesn't break in the end to help make obito realize that he gave up to quickly or something. for then Sakura to turn out to be alive due to her medical justu. Or obito when good tells Sakura about himself, rin and Kakashi to her and why she is important to naruto etc and dies protecting her saving the rin of the next genration so that naruto doesn't end up like him. 

 

Though I assume when Studio Pierott and the editors forced their Hianata agenda they made Kishimoto drop it and her involment in the obito battle and instead made him kill Neji to have Naruto feel that despair and have Hianata "save" him from it.

I agree on what you said, Blue. Or do something like in a Superman story from years ago, "Ending Battle". In it, Superman had to deal with Manchester Black, a previous enemy who led a super team called the Elite, and Black had Clark running ragged by sending tons of supervillains after people who knew him in his regular life, and then Black came to Lois, making it look like he killed her, all because he wanted Clark to be exposed as a "fraud" just because he never believed Clark was the kind of person who really was not about killing and the like, and when Clark said he refused to kill Black, this is what was said.
 

MAJOR SPOILER ALERT:
 
I can't believe Horikoshi actually pulled this off for a character death. But then again...

And, though I'm not pro-Uchiha anything, I can understand why they would have been pissed that the only guy from an apparently dead clan (Namikaze) gets the Kage role, while this huge clan of powerful shinobis gets passed over. 

In the case of it with the Uchiha, Tricksie, I blame some of that on Tobirama's prejudice against them since he carried on the bitterness of his father and passed it on from all the fighting with the Uchiha, while Hashirama wanted legitimate peace for them, even when Madara snapped and wanted to fight him when the Uchiha chose to side with Hashirama as the first Hokage, while he was willing to let Madara do it before he accepted his role. And that prejudice kept spreading into some others, like Homaru and Koharu, Hiruzen's comrades before he became the third Hokage. And we saw Hiruzen tried to have some peace with the Uchiha, but the bitterness they felt at the prejudice is what led Sasuke and Itachi's dad, Fugaku, to attempt a coup, being willing to use his sons as spears against the Leaf, and how Danzo was no different, sicne not only did he not believe in the Uchiha really, but he coveted their Sharingan for himself, like how one of the Ultimate Ninja Storm games showed he stole Hisui's Sharingan before he could attempt to use Kotoamatsukami to stop the coup.

agreed that's the big problem with kakashi. 

plus he taught naruto and sakura next to next 

pretty sure the reason there team made it that far was more luck than skill in the first half.

It's weird sakura in the start of part 2 had more training that naruto did

Yeah. Naruto's best teacher if you ask me definitely goes to Yamato, since he tried to get Naruto to think of what he really wanted in terms of power, while Kakashi tended to look down on him even as he tried to help him and in spite of KNOWING he was Minato's son, and Jiraiya emphasized too much on power for Naruto and overreliance on Kurama's chakra without giving him finesse or refining various areas to make him more balanced. Iruka is even better because he always was encouraging to Naruto when he realized some of his mistakes with him even as he wanted to help him too as best he could.

 

Or again, Kakashi tries to talk Sasuke out of his revenge, but when Shikamaru is out for Hidan's blood he no only condones it he personally helps out. Naruto is FULL of hypocrisy, the more you think about it

Yeah, and yet in the case of Shikamaru, he only wants it because he blames himself for Asuma's death when there's no way in Hell he could have guessed what Hidan was capable of. At least in Sasuke's case, his justification besides his obvious jealousy towards Itachi for the acknowledgment he got from their father and how while Sasuke admired Itachi, he hated him too, he was mad by the torture Itachi put him through to cover his tracks so Sasuke would kill him, AND also the massacre in general. All Shikamaru really had was being butt hurt his sensei died instead of just letting it go and realizing he screwed up, so he had to try to be stronger.

The same kind of hypocrisy is in many cases too in other scenarios, like how some people treated Sasuke compared to Naruto over similar stuff after the massacre when Sasuke had begun to get consumed by his anger and jealousy towards Itachi, like how Sasuke took it too far in that one flashback when Kurama was trying to convince Naruto to give up on saving Sasuke, and how Iruka only chided Naruto for how he was, rather than also scolding Sasuke for his own abrasive attitude too.

Oh they will ruin him big time but the true fans of Tolkiens work have spoken.

 

Yeah the working conditions in Japan are abysmal so it's totally understandable why we're getting so many breaks.  What matters the most is making sure everyone's health is in top priority. 

 

I pray there isn't anything about his health deteriorating.  

Same thing. Last thing we need is something like Mr. Horikoshi catching COVID or something else.

That would be quite an interesting take. 
 
 
 
I would probably go a little bit more than just  a love interest being what makes Naruto tic towards the evil road.... We could have it to where Iruka is the one that causes the domino effect.

I just lost one my cat. She was with me for 17 years. I still find myself looking for signs of her jumping up on me or waiting to be fed
 
condolences for all that have lost loved ones

Seeing this thread, it reminds me-- has anyone here made some One Piece OC's? My friend Kurt and I have come up with an entire crew and some adventures for them to go on.

Not only that, he failed in the execution as well. He gave little characterization to the villains in the first place, and no motivations to speak of. It was only when it was convenient for him to do so that he focused on the villains back story and that is only when they were about to be killed off of have the conflict finished with them at least and by then it is too late for the audience to FEEL anything, much less sympathize with them. He expects you to feel bad for a character he never focused on which again  to me, just feel cheap and force feeding it to you instead of it progressing naturally. THAT is the major flaw for his sob story writing for his villains and expecting the audience to sympathize with them, not that he was trying to make them sympathetic. He did it in a rush at a time when it was too late to make the audience feel anything.

Like I said, It's essentially a story where you got shot by someone. Then you forgive them and say it wasn't their fault. Then let them SHOOT YOU again. IT. IS. POINTLESS. All of the sob stories for the villain, all of the force feeding the audience that they are not villains but victims of circumstance, all of that blaming the ninja system instead of individual choices and the whatnot and Kishi couldn't even conclude that cheap message properly about ending the era of ninjas. It was all to set up Boruto which is yet another reason this trash heap has over stayed it's welcome.

I still f***ing hate that I mean come on Retro said it best in his rise and fall of Naruto you needed a Joker or your Sidious. But no everyone is a victim.

Yeah! And I prefer the idea that I wanna use in my fanfic that Madara snapped when his brother Izuna, even when wounded fatally by Tobirama, wanted peace with the Senju clan, after realizing how too much blood was spilled by their clans, and Madara killed him and took his Sharingan for himself, becoming more and more evil. Hell, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure does that so well in just having a villain being a villain with Dio. He may have claimed to love his mother, but he was, as Speedwagon said, BORN evil considering how twisted he was to try to break Jonathan in Phantom Blood when he came to the Joestar estate, as well as his desires to become a god.