Bail o' Lies

I never understood why Kishimoto was the only mangaka who couldn't get the romantic pairing he wanted, despite others in the same circumstances having succeeded. Kubo is the best example of this: Bleach was on the same studio as Naruto, and the fans wanted the protagonist to end up with someone else, but Kubo went with the pairing he wanted even though it went against the wishes of most fans.

 

I thought about the reason and noticed that, between the years 2000 and 2010, female characters in shoujo who had pink hair or a transformation that turned their hair pink usually ended up with a black-haired character. The best examples of this are Tokyo Mew Mew and Shugo Chara!, both of which aired on TV Tokyo.

 

I remembered that TV Tokyo changed the pairing dynamic of Blue Dragon, which in the game was practically a retelling of Naruto-Sakura-Sasuke, with hints of a Naruto and Sakura pairing. In the anime, the protagonist got a Hinata 2.0, the rival ended up with a random girl, and the heroine ended up with a Sai-like character who appeared in the second half. I have a feeling that if TV Tokyo did Slam Dunk, they would put Haruko with Rukawa and we wouldn't have the Haruko and Hanamichi wedding poster. And if they did a Kingdom Hearts adaptation, Kairi would end up with Riku.

Editors often try to get their writers to change something so it makes it feel like they had a part in the story. Most Mangaka just ignore any demand to change the pairings. Kishimoto was surrounded by people (anime staff, editors, and assistants) that were supporters of Hinata, and Hinata was "perceived to be" popular in the most important market for the series, The US. That pressure made Kishimoto yield and became an example to mangaka after why they should never do something like that to a vital part of their story.

In case it wasn't clear even from the get go, the entire series is an after thought in an attempt to squeeze out more money out of the franchise with Kishi showing no emotional investment in it's writing even before it started. Even the initial writer I feel did not want to do it as more than as a jumpstart to his career as a manga author if not artist at the same time before he does his own work. you don't feel any passion in the series even at its highest points. but that may be just me since I don't read it but I just read the summaries and obviously I don't glean anything from that alone but the summaries don't feel appealing enough compel me to read it either

That is quite accurate, reading it or their interviews you get the feeling that neither of them really wanted to work on Boruto. They saw it was an easy way to boost themselves, so they could do their own stories after working on Boruto for a couple of years. O course the backlash destroyed Naruto and they were required to do more than they were willing to make it successful, so instead it has damaged their prospects.

Kodiachi was just some random writer Shueisha had that did light novels for them. He did one of the post-endings Naruto novel and probably agree to be its writer, because Ikemoto didn't think he could handle the writing aspect, as well as working with the anime staff to keep the manga and anime consistent. He probably help form Boruto because he had his own issues with living in the shadow of his respected professor of a father. He also probably was the one behind Amando/Madoc, Clone Jiraiya, and probably was the one ensuring that Sarada was involved in each arc. He did not take the decreasing financial support from the company like not having an editor after a certain point well. So his attitude caused him to lose his job.

Ikemoto was Kishimoto assistant for 15 years; he did the backgrounds. He was the one that agreed to take over the sequel so Kishi didn't have to do it. I suspect he is at least partially responsible for the ending; as he probably convinced Kishi to go with what he thought was popular. So he can have the most successful and easiest position. Of course it backfired. Kawaki/Nail is his character. He is obsessed with making the story what he perceives to be cool while not really putting in much effort. From I understand he has gain a rep as a lazy uncreative tracing hack that seems very very fond of young girls. 

What I disagree with you on is that TV Tokyo was collaborating with Studio Pierrot to have that happen, not that Studio Pierrot has nothing to do with it.  What happened to Blue Dragon is purely SP's initiative, because as they've shown us throughout Naruto/Boruto's run, they have established a notable precedent of bias when it comes to their depiction of assertive women vs non-confrontational, big-boobed fanservice. With Blue Dragon,  they did more than rewrite the romantic dynamic of Kluke and Shu's relationship, they completely altered Kluke's character into a tsundere for no apparent reason and made her a healer instead of an offensive magic caster as she is the original canon of the games.  Whereas with Bouquet, aside from her being an anime-original character created by Pierrot for fanservice and to be nothing but an obsessive love interest for Shu, her ability literally revolved around her getting butt-naked and then later on, she got the power to transform into whatever she sees (including a version of Kluke with a larger bust, which is SP's infantile way of saying "Shu doesn't need the real Kluke since our OC can become a better/sexier version of her if she wants to") and copy any Shadow power that she wants. You even have the villains of the series constantly commenting on how hot she was during the series' run. In other words, she was a complete Mary Sue.

 

Then you got Twin Star Exorcist, where they made Mayura (the soft-spoken, big-boobed childhood friend of Rokuro, the male protagonist) seem more important in the anime than she actually was in the manga, and even tried to suggest that Rokuro had feelings for her when he's completely oblivious to her and primarily focused on Benio in the source material.   They even mildly attempted this in Black Clover's anime adaptation at first before they were shut down by Tabata, who's one of the few Japanese creators to openly confront and criticize any changes to an adaptation on social media.

 

Point that I'm making is that this is all SP's prerogative, where they take liberties to facilitate their own barely concealed fetishes when it comes to female characters.

They apparently did the same thing with Tokyo Ghoul. And damaged the story so bad that the mangaka had to reset the manga with a part two to try again, which they again screwed up that anime's part two, and then the mangaka had beg people to see the live action movie to show his story was good.

SP is the ones doing it as they are the ones making the anime that go against the manga's story. Tv Tokyo are the distributors their crime is only not putting their foot down and stopping it.

Kishimoto should no longer work on the Naruto franchise if he is not going to create characters that he likes. Just look at the Minato one-shot, which is basically a Kushina story. He probably doesn't want to work with Sasuke and Sakura, and Naruto and Hinata, because they traumatized him while he was writing. So, he should leave it to these light novel writers who make these official fanfics of these couples and use his name to sell. Boruto is a different case, because he only lends his name, while his assistant and Pierrot make money, while he should be enjoying life with his family. After all, the best of his assistants, who made Rock Lee SD and Samurai 8, are not even in Boruto.

 

Saruto is the name that fans gave to a supposed son of Boruto and Sarada. It is a joke that many fans made when they discovered that the name of Naruto's son is Boruto. So, they said that the son of Boruto would be Saruto.

The oneshot was a MK story and was the result of how that poll turned out; Minato in first and Sakura in third. Giving him both confidence and range to do what he wanted.

Samurai 8 was him as the writer and one of his assistance as the artist, it flopped.

The SD if they are still ongoing, can only really be successful if the main story is popular enough to support a tongue and cheek parody.

Boruto, he is either an advisor or a writer going along with what Ikemoto wants. 

I would say Kishimoto is more bitter than traumatized about how his characters turned out. He knew it was a bad idea but 6 or so years from people around him pushing for it, convinced him to do it, and everything that has happened since then has shown that to been the worse choice he could have made for his manga. He also can't do anything about it, even if he wanted to or had the will, till the sequel is over.

The light novels? Judging by the two manga adaptation of two of the light novels, keeping Kishi would be better. One was a poorly plotted fanfic with creepy implications and the other was a dull as dish water.

Thanks for the info 

 

For the One Piece live action, I'm not a fan but I did watch all episodes and I must admit that I enjoy it a lot. It does show that the people that worked on it were dedicated to pull out something great and it did show in the end!

 

As for the Naruto love adaptation, seriously, while it is still an early stage, I can't help but to wish it never comes to light but if it does, knowing that such person, that did bad on previous works, might do the same for Naruto live action, help to calm my overall hate that another project about Naruto might be produced.

 

I doubt they are hoping to make it another Dragon Ball Evolution just to motivate Kishimoto to come back as again, they are trying to make products to bring money into the franchise, hoping for it to be bad just to bring back the author's motivation would be pretty stupid, even for them. At the very least, that the live action is being produced or not, that it is successful or not, they might try to convince him so that he can do another one shot like he did with Minato since it turned out successful, in terms of the number of people reading it. It would be interesting to see how much the Minato sell, compared to other Naruto/Boruto product since it was an actual project done by Kishimoto, something that wasn't the case in a long time (even with Samourai 8 that was cancelled in 2020?).

From what I understand originally the script was a standard Netflix adaptation ie absolutely nothing like One Piece beyond some characters names and clearly just chosen for the license in order to get some interest. Then Oda became an executive producer and order them to follow his manga story. Then after they finish shooting he order reshoots because they still were trying to change things to make it more "Woke." If Oda hadn't gotten involved it would have become another Cowboy Bebop Netfilx live adaptation.

Oda is friends with Kishimoto so he would probably give him a warning of be involved so they don't do 'that' but how much Kishi will follow that advice is who knows.

The fact that they are putting a writer with basically no experience kind of shows how much they are putting into this. And that Hollywood strike is still going on from what I understand. The movie has been in production hell since the ending. So this show may suffer the same fate. But this is Netflix -most likely- and they have been pushing out poor quality anime live adaptations.

Oh I was making a joke and mocking how this is likely going to be bad. Since, look what happens with most of Netflix anime live action adaptations; as well as what happened to the Witcher, the only writing credit the writer really has to their name.

They didn't delay it to improve quality; it was just a marketing move because they didn't want to share the spotlight with the One Piece Live Action, the Shibuya Arc of JJK, and the final episodes of Bleach.

 

Those who live in countries where Saint Seiya was popular will understand what I'm about to say. Saint Seiya was the most popular anime in several countries, more popular than Dragon Ball for a while. However, at a certain point, it lost popularity, and Dragon Ball solidified itself as the most popular, with even Yu Yu Hakusho surpassing it. What I believe will happen with Naruto is that it will lose popularity in Western countries to One Piece, which will eventually become much more popular. Over time, Naruto will be forgotten, primarily due to the way Jump handles the franchise

They already likely know that the audience may have move on. That's why they are doing that 4 episode anime to check. The companies want to find out how well Naruto still sells. The anime staff delaying it just so they don't have to share the 'spotlight' (and see how bad there viewership is) will not please them.

You know, after watching some older films, I think Naruto suffers from a God complex.

 

One part of it is this, and it fits Naruto so well.

 

The person is highly dogmatic in their views, meaning the person speaks of their personal opinions as though they were unquestionably correct

Its a side effect of Naruto's morals not being questioned nor explored.

In theory, Naruto's morality is suppose to be similar to the audiences. The ninja world indoctrinates everyone into seeing themselves as disposable weapons; conditioning them to accept as well as even commit immoral acts. He was such a bad student that he wasn't indoctrinated like the rest; so kept a proper moral compass. That is similar to the author's or at least what he thinks his customers would agree with. However, since Kishi thought everyone would agree with Naruto that meant that he felt Naruto shouldn't be questioned...or didn't realize that it should if for nothing else to help flesh out the story.

Which leads to scenes that can be summed up as:

Naruto: X is wrong.

Other Character: Well, I think-

Naruto: Shut up and just agree with me that X is wrong.

Then the story make it so Naruto is correct about whatever X was.

Wow, and NaruHinas are clutching onto that "The Kushina-Sakura connection was a deliberate red herring that's common in shonen" rhetoric even now. 

Where did you get that quote from?

They have to: "The answer that is simple. Kushina and Minato have a happy health perfect relationship made even clearer by the one-shot. That are suppose to foreshadow how Naruto's relationship will end up as well as who he ends up marrying.

https://www.quora.co...get_type=answer
Strange when i put myself in naruto's shoes i came up with a different perspective

 

"Put yourself in Naruto's shoes:

Would you prefer someone who always follows the crowd, people belittles you she belittle you, they adore you she adore you (Are they still talking about Sakura?). One who asks you to take back the boy she has a crush on and who tried to kill you and her, but this girl continues to prefer him to you, and at most she makes a finished declaration of love to you.

 

Or a girl who has always appreciated you no matter what others say or your flaws, and who will give her life for you if that is required.

 

Really people still have doubts about which couple is the best, in reality everyone would be happy that their son takes Hinata home and not Sakura, the NaruSaku is literally the girl who doesn't care about the nice guy, until it suits him, he changes my mind."

God that post is so badly written.

Again. The appeal of Hinata is, she is easy. You do not have to do anything to get her or keep her. And as they state she will never question or doubt you only worship the ground you walk on. Which becomes a problem when your son is acting out and she refuses to confront you. Leading the daddy issue to spiral out of control. One cannot resolve an issue; unless it is brought first up.

Sakura willingness to question and criticize Naruto is a point in her favor because; Naruto is an idiot, who is trying to enact policy changes to correct the flaws in the ninja system. If he doesn't have some one to talk his idea over first how can he know they will work? How does he iron out the detail?

Edit: Also in Naruto's shoes. Well Naruto was someone that most of the village preferred to avoid interacting with when they could for years. Sakura was the one girl that would always react to him. He thought she was cute and developed a crush on her over time fell in love with her. Hinata was a weird quite girl that was too polite  to tell him to go away and too meek to speak two sentences to him. Until the chunin exam, which was after knowing each other for years as with the rest of his classmates. Which by her finally talking to him caused him to see her as a nice girl and a good friend. 

Ai Is the latest fad on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9oICXMObh4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0zmADO0mNo

oh true i remembered they did bleach but totally forgot about yu yu hakusho (I'm also watching Kimagure Orange Road which also is by sp). Also I started to watch the original Rurouni Kenshin because I never saw it and a remake started airing this year and I noticed one of the characters has a single finger flick move very similar to tsunade's

From various Japanese anime/video games I have seen that have done it. My guess is, finger flicking the forehead seems to be a way of teasing/chastising someone in Japan. Its also can used to show how strong someone is in a story. Do it to yourself to see, its mostly harmless. So, if someone can do it and it knocks someone flat; that character must be super strong.

I don't even understand why they bother acting indignant anymore.  They've seen for themselves throughout Boruto that Naruto sparsely shows consideration towards his children or any attraction towards Hinata.  Hell, he even called her out as a idiot for being more concerned about him being danger than their freakin' children.  

They think if they act indignant & offended that the companies will have to appease them. It always worked for them before for western media. Problem is, those companies have learned of their worth. They have had nearly ten years to show how they would financially support Hinata, and haven't. Which is why the companies seem to be moving away from Hinata and going back to Sakura. 

They try to ignore dismiss justify or make excuses for the fact that Naruto doesn't seem that happily married to Hinata. They hate to be reminded of the fact that Naruto once had feeling for Sakura. To them, Naruto should only love Hinata, ever.

Oh yeah, I do remember the manga you're referring to, I believe that was U-19. But what you said is accurate in that it does seem like Jump and Shueisha aren't taking the same approach with what happened to Kishi. Simply to avoid the same circumstances that happened with Naruto, and honestly that is for the better.

I think it was also pretty telling that when Naruto ended, Kishi had no interest coming back to Naruto after he finished the series and wanted to try something different. Which we know the result of what happened once Samurai 8 got canceled.

Not to say that it was surprising because given how Naruto ended this was more or less something an expected outcome.

They like a lot of people underestimated how important NS was to the story of Naruto.

It may not be up to the company, as much as it is a reaction from the mangaka. Again, Kishimoto used to be a big name and that one executive/editorial mandate destroyed him. What can say it can't happen to them? So they are all taking precautions to make sure it doesn't happen.

Demon Slayer: I didn't even realize there was a main couple outside the lighting boy crushing on the sister.

My Hero: Killed the closest thing to a romantic rival.

Food Wars: Didn't put the main couple together for some reason.

Samurai 8: I'm not changing the main pairing. I'm not changing the main pairing. For ten chapters.

Jujutsu Kaisen: Seemed to imply from the beginning that Yuji wasn't even going to live long enough to get into a serious relationship.

Black Clover: Noelle is clearly the main girl, but if the editor make a stink Sister Lily.

Chainsaw man: Messed around in part one but I assume Asa is Denji's love interest.

I recall bringing this up to Lucky a few years ago when Shounen jump had that red string of fate manga. But, I have notice that WSJ manga tend to be more blatant with their couples since Naruto ended. Either, they were very clear who the love interest is, or they avoid that all together.

People worried about another mangaka becoming another Kishimoto need to remember that; they don't want to turn into another Kishimoto. Kishimoto was once the second of third biggest name in the shounen manga industry.

Now look at him.

He is a glorified editor/assistant in the sequel to his own manga, and its failing. We may not know fully what happened to Naruto, but it is likely an open secret and a warning in Shueisha; don't let your editors dictate something as minor yet important as the end parings.

Ah yes, those fics...

 

I really can't stand that revenge fulfillment/power fantasy garbage since it requires everyone to be grossly out of character and expects us to root for Naruto when he becomes a psychopathic PoS that puts Orochimaru to shame.  Oh, and Hinata is always naturally immune because "she always had Naruto's back.", even when she hid in the shadows and did nothing as he was "abused".

I honestly avoid Naruto Hinata fics because of those, because they are all the same. Same, whining. Same, oh woe is me. Same no one has suffered as I have suffer. Same vindictive petty sadistic bloodlust. Same harem of characters the writer clearly lusts after.

Hinata often becomes his second who wipes out the rest of the village (down to the infants in their pleading mother's arms) while he goes after those that personally wronged him; mainly Sakura. And defeats easily while ranting and complaining.

If it came to me and writing a role reversal story of Naruto being the bad guy and sasuke being good.8 honestly don't think Hinata would have any relevancy at all especially her infatuation with Naruto too.

I do however see Sakura gaining a huge major role and growth out of it though.

In that putting all that high of a pedestal on Sasuke really set off the edge and he just needed someone to understand him and feel welcome.

I could even see it where it breaks her crush phase. On sasuke too.

If we honestly look at Hinata. She would be a lesser Sakura. Instead of chasing after him or trying to bring him back. She would just lament him turning evil, going "Naruto-kun," and do nothing else. Granted her fans will still defend her if that happened because double standards.

The "rivalry" line from the Last always struck me as very odd because it answered a question (in a very poor way) that really didn't need to be answered at the time.

 

NaruSaku was already 6 feet under at the time and all it accomplished was making Naruto look petty and puts all their interactions in the manga in a worse light. 

 

It was a throwaway line that was never brought up again, so why even bring it up to begin with?

The reason is that, they didn't like the idea that Naruto loved someone before Hinata and she was his second choice. She should be his first and only choice, in their minds. His first love. His only love. His true love. Bound by Red Scarf of Fate.

But, the problem with that is, all you have to do is the read the manga. And, the introductory chapter for both Sakura and Sasuke is that he has a crush on Sakura. A crush that more or less continues until the end of the manga. For about 696 chapters. So, again, they don't want that. They want to erase that fact. So they came up with something that they felt would convince the viewers that Naruto never had any feeling for her, because it was just part of his rivalry with Sasuke. Also helps with SS, as it implies Sasuke always had feelings for her.

Of course, they didn't think about how bad and scummy it was that. One) Naruto was playing with her feeling for so long, two) he can bold face lie about being in love with someone that everyone believes it for years except he never had any feeling for her what-so-ever (if he can lie about that what else can he be lying about,) and three) apparently, he somehow knew that Sasuke always deeply loved her and was constantly playing the third wheel just to be a jackass. This among others destroyed Naruto's reputation and labeled him, "The Worst Scumbag," in Japan, after they saw The Last. Of course, the staff didn't think of this because all they cared about was Naruto never having feeling for Sakura.

Honestly, I think Naruto ended being a giant self-insert for Kishimoto. His self-insert is basically Sasuke and one of the reasons Sakura ended up with Sasuke was because Sakura is like his wife and him like Sasuke.. Sasuke leaving the village for extended periods of time while Sakura is home with the kid kinda mirrors his own life aka him being at work all the time and never got to go on his honeymoon or spend quaility time with his wife. So having Sakura get together with Naruto would be like his wife getting with another man. So his thing about Sakura being a horrible person if she moved on from Sakura was paralleling his own life because if his wife left him because of his hectic work life she would be horrible.

 

I can GO ON about this but I feel like Kishimoto GOT Lucky with this series.

If Sasuke was his "true" self insert. Why does Kishimoto not like having to do scenes together with the character that represents his wife?

Here just some things that make that idea not make sense:

Chapter three the bench scene. First thing, I want people to remember is Kishimoto has a twin brother, a twin that focuses on art and not money like him; the cool twin. So I want you all to see the scene again like this: Naruto/Masashi confesses/flirt with the girl of his dreams, but she mistakes him for his brother Sasuke/Seishi, and falls in love with him instead. Now, that doesn't happen to most normal people, since most don't have someone that looks exactly like them, but it can happen to twins. I've know at least 5 sets of twins over the years...surprisingly all males, and that happened once in Highschool. The girl apologized after the mistake but the twin who confessed started dyeing his hair afterwards.

Now Seishi is also a mangaka and his first manga was 666 Satan/O-Parts Hunter. The main character was Jio Freed a boy with Satan inside of him, and his best friend was Ball. Now it is likely like his brother that Seishi made the main character like him, and the best friend like his brother. So, Sasuke/Jio/Seishi is the more calmer of the two, more visibly talented, more of a loner, and is difficult to tell if he likes girls. Naruto/Ball/Masashi is the more goofy, perverted, less talented but can be cunning, and his main signature attack is a ball. Now, there is this female character called May, who starts out liking Jio but falls for and ends up marrying Ball. Read the manga or just look up May she should look and behave very familiar.

Throughout the rest of the Naruto manga. If Sasuke is Kishi's self insert and he wants him to get together with Sakura, why is their relationship portrayed so negatively (that it bad she still likes him and she should just move on) until the end where they got together?

The gaiden which is a SS manga. Did that convince you that he supports it? The reason he has stated that its a 10 chapter gaiden was to prove, he was not sexist. He finally been hearing about how everyone treats him as a sexist. So, to prove he wasn't, he turn Sarada's side story that was originally a one-shot like Mitsuki's into a ten chapter gaiden. If you think the gaiden is supporting SS. I suggest reading it again, the first 7-8 chapters are trashing it until the last few when its problems are lazily patched over.

Samurai 8. Hachi and Anna are the main pairing at some point after I stopped reading some cool guy was introduce. Now, that story from what I understand did not randomly drop the pairing and switch it for the cool guy, but reaffirmed the pairing. 

The recent Minato & Kushina one-shot. Now, Kushina is based on his wife, and Minato is based on Kishimoto. Is Minato more like Sasuke or Naruto?

The Boruto manga. Now there were a few scene of SS. The getting flowers for Sasuke's return, and taking care of Sarada at the hospital. Now, both of those scene happened while Kishimoto was gone working on Samurai 8. Since, he has returned, Sakura has vanished.  

Look, I get your trying to come up with a justification for SS happening. "It happened because Kishimoto must wish he could be Sasuke." But, nothing beyond, 'they got together,' supports it. Why SS happened was nH happened, they needed to put Sakura somewhere, and SS was popular enough.