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Alessa

Member Since 04 Sep 2014
Offline Last Active Mar 30 2015 10:44 AM

#579176 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Alessa on 10 September 2014 - 02:15 PM

If none of the pairings end up happening how will you react? Angry? relieved?

It would be very bad. I don't think I would have the right to be angry, because this is shounen and we are not supposed to get much romance in shounen (that's what makes it interesting though). They don't promise us a romantic ending, they promise us "a dream that came true". But it would be a loss for me and my shipping. I don't like imagining stuff that isn't there unless I have a good reason to imagine it (big hints that this or that is probably going to happen). I also don't like to destroy what is already canon, because I feel like cheating myself. I don't expect to see a picture of Sakura having Naruto's babies (and thank god to that - I don't like mother-theme), but I want a confession or a big enough hint. I am ok with wondering - will they work it out all the way to the "happily ever after"? - as long as I know that Sakura is definitely the one Naruto is going to pursue and all the major obstacles (like SS) are resolved. For example, if we don't see a confession\physical contact, but the last panel is showing us Naruto and Sakura going somewhere together, the two of them as the center of the picture, it is good enough for me. It is canon for me. If its Hinata that we see in the end, even if there is no romantic interaction, but she is shown to be the closest to Naruto in the last panels, I've lost. If we see nothing, I'll feel like a major fool and I will have to work through leftover tension in my soul for a month or so.




#579130 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Alessa on 10 September 2014 - 01:26 PM

Well, it seemes that SS fans are feeling quite discouraged after today's chapter. They think that Sasuke's evil PMS has taken its final blow at Sakura's feelings and she can only give up. I can't say I share their pessimism as much as I want to. It feels like Sakura has faced all kinds of Sasuke's treachery already and if it didn't change her feelings before, it won't change them now. There is probably one thing she never experienced though - Sasuke actually threatening Naruto's life. I mean literally  - him about to make the finishing blow. Maybe that would snap her out of her dedication. But I seriously feel that Naruto is going to be a dominant force in this fight. I am not even sure we're gonna see Sakura participating in any way other than emotionally. I hope she'll join the fight though. To fulfill her promise to Naruto that they are gonna bring Sasuke back together. It's just that if Kishimoto wants to end this in 5 or so chapters, it will probably be a very short "one major blow and some talking" kind of fight. (someone called it Talk-no-Jutsu - i laughed a lot)

 

No, I don't think Sasuke will die. I am pretty certain he won't. We are going to revisit all the major themes and scenes in the manga that define Team 7, their previous conflicts and interactions, their promises to each other. We will have some kind of closure. But Naruto will lose if he kills Sasuke or lets Sasuke die. And we won't see the last fight in this manga turn out to be a loss. I knew it would all come to this. I could forsee NS happening if I could forsee Sasuke dying. But I don't, so NS is also still a big mystery. I can very well see Sakura dedicating herself to help Sasuke live his life in prison or smth. Like visiting him and bringing news. Tragic dedication. Naruto would respect that. He is the kind of guy who falls in love with other girl's dedication to the other guy (chapter 3 - lol). 

 

There is one thing else that made my blood boil though. This face that Naruto made after Sasuke's "confession" and the one in the last panel. He anticipated Sasuke's 360' so well, he was not surprised at all. I could sense not only readiness, not only anger, but some sort of happiness as well. Like he finally got what he wished for for a long time. Like he wanted it all to be clear, he wanted it all to depend on him and only him, he wanted one truthful and intense conversation (through voice or fists). He wished to put everything in its rightful place. And he finally got it. And I'd like to think that this is connected to Sakura too. That weight that he harbored due to their promise, that wall he couldn't cross to reach her because of it - it can all finally be resolved and he will feel free to approach her. That last panel expressed his will for that so well. To clear all regrets and become free to act upon his desires and choices. 

 

EDIT: I never answered that question from awhile back, but yes, it is Nami from One Piece on my avatar.




#575597 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Alessa on 04 September 2014 - 10:05 PM

Hi. You have a nice place here. I actually registered to thank Slextrem for her "Build Up" compilation, but this thread has caught my attention.
 
I was actually a bit surprised, because I thought chapter 691 was very NS-oriented, but I can see a lot of doubt here (not sure if trolling).
I have several opinions.
First of all, I think that Naruto still deeply loves Sakura and I see no evidence against it (one of the reasons is in the "spoiler section"). I am convinced that scenes with Hinata were really sweet and great, but posed no "danger" to NS pairing. Just as any other scenes with Hinata that we might encounter in the future, unless there is a clear statement from Naruto's POV for once (like blushing or inner thought). I also think that currently Sakura still loves Sasuke, at least is deeply convinced in her feelings towards him and doesn't regard Naruto as a potential lover. Still she cares for Naruto and loves him as a person a lot. I also think that the current romantic conflict is still a love triangle (Naruto-Sakura-Sasuke), which pretty much is just a line (Naruto -) Sakura -) Sasuke). Hinata, Lee, Karin and any other character are there as a second choice, but don't influence the feelings of the MAIN 3 in any way. It is all pretty much inside Team 7 as it has always been. I do consider NaruHina a possibility, but not as it stands right now, as a result of all the interactions between the two, but as a logical second choice if NaruSaku destroys itself from within. NaruSaku can destroy itself if Sakura chooses Sasuke permanantly or someone dies. I can't imagine other reason for Naruto to give up on the girl. Though I have no idea how Kishimoto plans to reorient Sakura romantically towards Naruto (what would snap her out of her Sasuke fixation).
I do think that Kishimoto has gone too far in developing Sakura's feelings towards Sasuke to the point where it feels like a deadlock. Basically this is manga about achieving your dreams|goals. And it has been stated that Sakura wished to achieve Sasuke's acknowledgment (chapter 3 or smth). Same as Naruto as a main character of a shounen has chosen himself the heroine to pursue from the very start. Thus we have a situation, in which everyone can't have a solid achievment of their goal (the genre doesn't permit not to achieve) unless its a threesome or someone dies, because the goals more or less cancel each other out. Either Sakura gives up on her initial goal or Naruto is the first guy to give up on his heroine. Its not pretty either way and someone is bound to get hurt. We can also see a cliffhanger, of course, and we will never know. 
Why I think its totally normal if Hinata doesn't get Naruto despite her very big and honest love for him?  Because I've studied Japanese literature for a bit. I've always felt that Hinata has aimed towards Naruto's acknowledgment more than his love (more than that - she actually aimed towards her own growth most of all). She never really stated she wants him to love her. I mean, she wishes for that and she definitly wants him to be her family, to be her husband and etc. But in manga of this genre the words mean more than implied desires. What is stated cannot be taken back and has to get some development as a rule of a genre. And she never stated that her goal, which has to be achieved, is to get Naruto's romantic love.

Why it doesn't really matter when Hinata says "I want to be with him forever"?
 
Why can the author give her that line and then not give her the actual fulfillment? Because in Japan the concepts of tragic love and separation hold a very different meaning from western ones. In many stories you have a bunch a characters (lovers, comrades or friends) who are (for a complete unknown reason) sent away from each other in the end. It used to shock me every time. It was like the authors deliberately destroyed all that they built, as if they thought "Ok, its almost the end, they are truly together, its time to push them in different directions."  And all these characters parted with sad but genuine smiles on their faces and a promise of eternal love. I studied the issue for a bit and it occured to me that this is just how true love is viewed in Japan. Love is not disturbed by a big distance. It is polished by it! Reciprocity is not the blessing of a true love. It is very often portrayed as an obstacle!! Lovers, who obtained each other only to step away from each other are considered to be making a natural and solid statement of their love!! And it has nothing to do with selflessness of letting the other one go, because the feelings are one-sided. Love, that has reamined unfulfilled (even if mutual), that has remained pure, is a much stronger spiritual connection, that enlightens those, who carry it. It is the same with deep friendship.
These ideas are also vivid in the concept of selfish love, that is very different of what we imagine in Western culture. It is the love, that person shares with himself. He has an object of infatuation, but he doesn't REALLY need that object to respond. This love makes the person stronger, helps him achieve his goals. But it would actually be destroyed by reciprocity. This is not considered self-involvment or illusion in Japan. It is a very beautiful love. Have you seen Millenium Actress?
That's how I view Hinata. I thought so even before her confession, which was written in exactly such manner. She herself admitted how selfish her actions were, how it all was about her own growth. And it seemed totally natural to me that this issue has never led to any developments between her and Naruto, he never adressed her confession again. I mean, it is the style of Kishimoto's writing as well (see below), but it felt like a symbol of Hinata's selfish love. And then fans wonder why Hinata smiles so honestly when Sakura hugs Naruto tightly. I mean, Kishimoto can portary Hinata's love as brightly as possible and still leave her alone with this decision  being not exactly cruel, I could even call it "classic". 
 
Now I also think that today's chapter was about NaruSaku.
 
I think that the similarity between Kushina and Sakura were adressed a lot of times and are hardly disputible. Even if Kushina meant "the girl as great as your mom", not "the same as your mom", it still responds to Naruto's long harbored feelings toward Sakura. I don't see the reason to portray Naruto as the one who doesn't know love all of a sudden at the end of the whole manga. Like this suddenly disillusioned man, who declares his feelings about friendship and loved ones in the most open and strong fashion in front of the whole world, but then dwindles to acknowledge that the girl he once chose was (and is) something big. Have we seen a central character in this manga, who dwindled about the girl he first chose in his life? Some could not get her, but if they decided they loved her, they didn't seek to compromise. 
Naruto stated his love to Sakura many times and it would be strange if he combined those feelings with the idea that she is not good enough. I am quite sure that he thinks that he found one such girl, but she just doesn't belong to him yet. And might never be. Because his love is selfless and he won't push her into something that she herself doesn't feel. But he tries, and we see it CONSTANTLY, he tries to be there by her side and protect her. Which is why, he says "I'm trying my best". Maybe she will love him someday! The translation is pretty biased indeed. We read "find the girl..." and we naturally asume that it is about actually being able to call some girl worth being called "the one". But the context tells me its more about "obtaining the one" than "finding her". Get the girl! 
 
Why do I think Naruto still has feelings for Sakura (and doesn't have for Hinata)? Because of my understanding of Kishimoto's writing style:
 

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In my humble opinion.