CloudMountainJuror

I finally went and made my video for Retrace 104.

Yugioh: Arc V - 6/10

The score may seem low, but I'm actually really enjoying the show. There are quite a few good qualities to it. The pacing is quick but not rushed (and quick pacing for a Yugioh-based series is fairly important, considering the kind of show it is), there are some pretty good characters in the cast that carry things along nicely, the show is being fairly effective with its (so far) main theme, and the duels themselves are mostly pretty entertaining, with the occasional (and increasing quantity of) great ones. I'm about 50 episodes in, and things are getting really interesting, especially for a longtime follower of the franchise like myself.

The only reason the score is so low is because, well, there are quite a few problems. It isn't masterful storytelling, which is to be expected from a Yugioh series. Honestly, most of the issues present can kinda be hand-waved away with a "It's Yugioh, what do you expect"? Still, they're there all the same. One of which is an absolutely obnoxious waste-of-space side character with a pathetically immature and desperate "shiver" gimmick who should be put through a meat grinder and then promptly burned.

Ahem.

Some character profiles, along with comments from MochiJun:

 

http://lilyginnyblac...-from-24-1-last

 

http://lilyginnyblac...-from-24-1-last

 

And I thought this was interesting:

 

http://lilyginnyblac...an-excerpt-from

 

Apparently MochiJun was leaning towards Oz/Echo and said if Oz fell in love with anyone, it would be her. I had a feeling that was the case towards the end. She also calls Oz/Gilbert/Alice a "three person set", lol.

That does make sense, though I still kinda ship both OzAlice and OzEcho. Though that makes the ending even more sad, considering...

I watched the anime series adaptation last semester, absolutely loved the story. I plan on reading the manga soon to find out what happens after where the anime stopped.

Here's something from her official website, though I don't know if there's anyone to translate it:

 

http://3choume.blog7...-entry-346.html

 

It looks like it will be called Joker.

I will try to keep my expectations reasonable; I don't want to expect another Pandora Hearts. If she somehow pulled off two masterpieces in a row, that would be amazing, but I don't want to be disappointed.

That being said, I'm really looking forward to whatever she does next. It'll be great seeing more of her work. She's proven herself to be a hell of a storyteller.

Oh, internet. How I love you.

 

That was a huge let down for me, cause Kirei is one of my favorite characters so him dying like that was

Yeeeeah, it was pretty anti-climactic. Kirei is too epic for that.

I do hope Heaven's Feel ends up better overall than the UBW series has. I really do. But aside from that, from an entirely subjective, non-critical point of view, I will be pretty damn ecstatic if Kirei gets a huge amount of screentime in HF, like I hear he will. I want more Kirei. More Kirei is necessary.

It doesn't say it? Ohhh nevermind, if you watch the Fate Zero please episodes, it will explain it! Gives a bit more information! :) Well to me, FZ isn't much of stand alone due to Type Moon universe being connected in some ways in which most are not that confused by and it helps understand Fate, hollow ataraxia helps too especially for Lancer and a bit more about Kirie's past before Zero...maybe I don't remember lol

Despite its connection to the other Fate material, it is important to consider how Fate/Zero functions as a standalone, though, considering how it served as the gateway Fate material for many people (myself included). For them, all they had to base their knowledge on for years is what was presented in Fate/Zero and nothing else. Also, the different writers and writing styles between F/Z and F/SN further calls for the consideration of them being independent from each other. Because not everyone who liked or enjoyed F/Z is enjoying F/SN.

For example: absolutely nothing in UBW for me has come even remotely close to matching any aspect of Fate/Zero. Story, characters, direction (aside from some basic dialogue scenes), dialogue, pacing, even animation (to a smaller extent); all of it is inferior to Fate/Zero. And considering I hear the other anime adaptations are only worse than this current UBW adaptation, and that the VN is apparently 60+ hours consisting of repetitive prose I have zero interest in ever reading (hell, I've even struggled to get through the Steins;Gate VN due to how slow it is compared to the anime, and I've only heard praise for that one, in comparison to the constant mixed reception I hear for the F/SN VN), it doesn't seem like there's any good option available for Fate/Zero to maintain its high story quality without it just keeping its distance from the other Fate material entirely.

First, F/Z is not a standalone, it's a prequel, it's supposed to be watched/read after F/SN 

Kind like the Star wars movie series

I was saying it works as a standalone, not that it's meant to be.

- Archer exists because in some universe there is a Shirou that regretted his path, UBWShirou won't become Archer, his path won't be destructive because he won't regret his path. Archer puts value on the destination because his grail war events were events that made Shirou continue the way he was at prologue, it's an undiclosed route, all of the three routes make Shirou develop in different ways, so for different reasons all of the version of Shirou's we see in the three routes won't becom Archer in the future

 

UBWShirou puts value in the journey, for him just upholding these ideals each day is enough, there is literally 0 chance he will turn into Archer. He did not ignore criticism...didn't you watched? He accepted, however he just didn't let this criticism crush his beliefs, he kept a hold onto himself, Shirou was not proven wrong, Archer was... that was the whole point of the Answer, Archer drowned so much in regret that he forgot why he wanted to uphold those ideals in first place.

People chalk it up to dumb shonen because they simply dont understand, like you just proved you didn't :/

 

You're not supposed to relate to Shirou in first place, the guy is empty, the only way he feels worth of life is by saving people the same way Kiritsugu did with him, I won't spoil Fate or HF, but in UBW he surpasses this by acknowledging the fact that he is problematic, that his ideal is not even his, it's just that he won't stop doing because it's a beautiful thought, it's something that it's worth following, so if he ends up like Archer ( which he won"t) he won't have any regrets

 

Here is an analysis from a person who also only watched the anime

Ok. I think I've found the core problem here that's causing us to diverge so much.

Archer is a direct parallel to Kiritsugu (or vice versa, considering the release dates of the source material). He came to the same conclusion: that saving everyone is impossible. Because of this, he was swallowed up in despair. He became who he is because he focused on the endgame. Shirou is not focusing on the endgame, but the process of saving people itself. This makes sense. On its own, this is a nice idea, and a good resolution to come to. It gives him inner peace and prevents him from ever feeling regret. I get that. I understand.

However, this ignores Archer's actions, and their repercussions. Up until now, he's basically been doing what Kiritsugu did: kill the few to save the many. Why is this a problem?

The above scene speaks for itself. Even though the intention to save everyone is a great one, going about it the way Kiritsugu (and Archer) did only results in more death and feeds an endless cycle of death, an endless line of bodies stretching behind you. Brought to its furthest conclusion, it would result in the destruction of most of humanity because humanity itself thrives on conflict, thereby contradicting the very point of saving people in the first place. That's what the scene with Kiritsugu and the Grail expresses beautifully. It's one of my favorite scenes in fiction, to be honest.

Now, Archer executed all these people before he started regretting and was driven to despair, if I remember correctly. So at that time, he was still following current Shirou's ideals. Therefore, it's safe to assume that current Shirou will end up doing the same things, only he won't regret it like Archer does.

In other words, Shirou will overlook and disregard the larger repercussions of his actions, unlike Archer. Said repercussions being mass murder and death.

This is what's bothering me so much about Shirou's "answer". His answer gives him security within and prevents him from ever succumbing to despair and regret like Archer, sure. But there's nothing to suggest he won't do the same things Archer did before Archer succumbed to despair and regret. The only difference in the end seems to be that he'll be killing all these people and reaching towards this ideal, the ideal that Kiritsugu reached for, only he won't feel guilty about it and will happily do it. This would basically turn him into an ignorant death machine, a well-intentioned monster, causing widespread destruction and despair while turning a blind eye to the fact he's even causing it in the first place.

This comparison might feel out of nowhere, but it reminds me of communism. It's a great, beautiful idea on paper, but in reality it has severe issues. Shirou and UBW seems to suggest: "Hey, don't worry about those issues! The impact the endgame has on others doesn't matter! As long as you are happy and believe you're doing the right thing, despite the valid criticisms of others, then it'll all be OK!"

This is why I say Shirou is ignoring criticism in the long run. It's not because I didn't pay attention, or because I don't understand the inner peace that Shirou is aiming for. It's that he's valuing inner peace over real life consequences, and there's nothing presented to suggest he will ever acknowledge those real life consequences, not when he's disregarding them right now while staring at the very embodiment of them. Not Archer himself, but the long line of bodies stretching behind him.

--About the  Gil scene

 

Now you're just nitpicking

What matters if he took the GoB out or not?

Ultimately his resolution in teh scene was the  basically the same you proposed

It isn't really nitpicking. It's just one of those minor details that makes an enormous impact. With GoB, it highlights the fact that he's not only preparing to battle, but that at that moment, he considers them worth taking his time to kill. Without GoB, the battle isn't built up and he doesn't contradict himself or suddenly change his mind. The very conclusion of the scene is the same, yes, but unlike the current version, this one would feel more natural and legitimate. The execution differs. On a grander scale, for example, just because a book and a movie have the same beginnings and endings, doesn't mean they are the same in the middle, that they're of the same quality, that they're executed the same, or that they have the same impact.

Really?

Consider me an exception. In comparison to Shirou x Rin, I see very little value in Shirou x Saber, even with the romance in UBW being as...mediocrely done as it has been. Though take this with a grain of salt, as it's important to keep in mind that I've only seen Fate/Zero and the currently airing UBW adaptation. All I know about Shirou x Saber is the little teases that happened in the first half of UBW, and the basic idea behind Saber's development through the ship.

:/ "Like" is not the right word.

 

He is her property, literally

 

But well you might get disappointed if you ship them heavily..

 

There is not a lot of romance shown in this manga, the old Victorian?or English?styled Master-Servant relationship take precedence over it.

So this Alice chick seems to like Oz, am I wrong? Screw it, are there any pairings that happen? So I don't get attached to something and end up like we did in the NS fandom?

The answer to that question is...far more complicated than you might think. But not in the ways you'd imagine. Let's just say the plot to this series is twisty as all hell (in an extraordinarily good way) and that very little is ever as it actually seems.

I will say this much: the bonds between characters in this series are amazingly written and well-executed all around, all the way through the very last page. This is nothing like Naruto, where the author betrayed their characters and previously established bonds/storyline.

i'm re-watching episodes and i find it strange that gilbert can get manipulated by duldee when he's that guy with that chain. it's easy to brush this aside when he's just a kid but after he becomes an adult.. well..

 

do you guys think this is a plot hole?

If I remember correctly, he was caught completely off-guard. By the time he would have used his chain, he was already being manipulated.

Volume 24

And

Volume 24+1

I love all the released covers. Don't forget Volume 23!

God, I love Kirei.