Tsuki Hoshino

Well you have to keep in mind when Sasuke said and did that, as he changed his goals many times. He could still want to kill Naruto or not.

Also ruling the world? That was never his goal and hasn't been stated. 

 

I don't know, but as of right now I don't him being a final villain. Of course we have to see what his real goal is, so we can't really say much can we.  

No what he said was "I'm going to be Hokage and I don't give a bleeep if you agree nor not. Don't get in my way." A tyrant is someone who will not allow people to speak against them or stand in their way.  In order to change the shinobi system he has to take control of it which would pretty much put him in charge of the world as Ninja's know it.

What do you think he'll do to people who get in his way? Kill them obviously because that's the sort of person Sasuke has become.Usually when someone makes the declaration of "burning everyone and everything" without distinction, we don't consider them good guys, do we?

Just because he DIDN'T do it doesn't negate the fact that he was going to and that he WANTED to do it. 

Sure, lets keep in mind that Sasuke is screwy in the head, easily manipulated, sociopathic, "changes" his mind on a dime ( really, it haven't changed at all, his goal is still vengeance the target and method is just different.) No matter how you want to call it he's not a GOOD guy. 

A bad guy doesn't become a good guy just because he doesn't want the entire world ( and therefore his autonomy) to be destroyed. It just means he doesn't want his own interests to be impeded by it and therefore works to stop it. When the issue is solved he'll go right back to where he was before; trying to get rid of Naruto& co, because what point would there be in a Naruto VS Sasuke fight other wise? 

Him standing in Naruto's way automatically makes him a villain. If you stand in the protagonists way it makes you the antagonist- I.E the villain. 

I wonder what that means :|

Hmm, it's okay. Maybe next time, but thank you anyways 

I'm home now, so here's a super long explanation because Mythology is my thaaang. 

Tennyo ( heavenly maidens) are a subset of Tennin ( heavenly beings.) who serve the Bodhisattva in heaven ( basically gods in Buddhism.) They wear robes that give them the ability of flight called a Hagoromo, they are supposed to be feathered but more often then not they are drawn by artists as being long, loopy and sheer. They are also usually depicted with some sort of instrument, In a way they seem almost like Grecian muses-- talented, extremely beautiful and desirable. ( In western mythology, think Selkies or Swan maidens.) 

Legend goes that one day a young man ( usually a fisherman) spots a flock of them bathing and struck by how beautiful they are ( or one in particular is) steals one of their robes and hides it. When finished, each one gathers their garments, adorns it and takes flight back to the heavenly realm until only one is left. Without the robe she is earth bound and presumably doomed to a mortal life. 

She-- of course is panicked and begins to search for it relentlessly only to "bump" into the man who stole it who promises to help her in her plight (sneaky bastard.) Still unable to find it the maiden ends up marrying him ( sometimes she really falls in love, sometimes she doesn't.) and bares him children. 

In some stories she happens upon the robe within their home on her own, in others she will hear one of the children singing about it and some way or another finds out where its hidden and returns to heaven. In the stories where she truly grew to love her husband and children she returns to visit on occasion, in the others she's never seen again.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the story of Kaguya- but I'll do that really quick and explain why the two connect;

An old, childless bamboo cutter found a shining stalk of bamboo and cut it down only to find a baby girl about the size of his thumb inside. He took her home to his wife where-after every time he cut a stalk of bamboo gold would be found inside. As time passed the child he found grew into a beautiful young woman and despite the care he and his wife took to hide her from the outside world, news of her spread and suitors soon flocked from all over. 

Five men came and to each she assigned an impossible task- a legendary item to be brought back to her; The robe of the fire-rat, the stone bowl of the buddha, the jeweled branch of a tree from Horei, the jewel from the neck of a dragon and finally the cowrie born from a swallow. All of them fail one way or another until the emperor himself arrives and asks for her. To him she gives no tasks but politely refuses the marriage on the grounds that she is not from his country.

More time passes still and each time she looks upon the full moon she is filled with sadness knowing her return is eminent, her depression continues until she finally breaks down and explains to her parents that she belongs to the City on the Moon ( or sometimes the Capital of the Moon) In some versions she was sent to earth to escape war, or to serve a punishment and the gold found was re-reimbursement for her care there. 

Despite the emperor going through the trouble of sending soldiers to protect her and keep her on earth, people from the moon arrive to fetch her- she leaves her own robe to her parents, writes a note to the emperor and upon taking one sip of the elixir of life, sends the rest with the letter to the emperor. Once this was done, a new robe was placed upon her and all of her sorrow and love for the people on earth vanished and she returned to the moon.

Her earthly parents are left in sorrow and pine away in their depression at the end, the emperor also in sorrow and not desiring to live forever without seeing her has the elixir burned along with a letter on the highest peak in the land ( mt.Fuji) in the hopes that his words will reach the distant princess. its said that this is where Mt. Fuji got its name ( immortality) or from the soldiers  (Mountain abounding with soldiers) from the soldiers going to carry out the emperors orders.


Kaguya from the traditional story DOES wear a heavenly robe, which seems to align her with Tennyo hence the naming of her son. It could also be an illusion to the chink in her armor- the hagoromo served as the tool to bind a tennyo to earth or send her away in Kaguya's case.

Kaguya from Naruto is very clearly affiliated with the moon, and as such is meant to invoke connotations of the legend. When you originally asked this question I wondered if Hamura,Tokyo had its own version of the celestial maiden story, but I couldn't find anything on it so it must be related to something else. 

If you need anything else explained I'll try.

 

Quick question, does Hagoromo mean anything? Is it a city? 

What you just said should be in the bible.

 

Let me also add to the fact that her emotions are clearly showing in this war. Her insecurities about being useless and being on equal footing with Naruto & Sasuke is really showing. I mean look at her, she's like a rabid pit bull that's trying to break free from the owners dog collar. She's so eager to join the fray that even Kakashi puts much emphasize about doing something reckless. She's obviously looking to prove something and I don't think Kakashi can contain her eagerness to fight alongside Naruto and Sasuke forever.

 

She's hungry for battle and nothing is gonna get in her way next time, reckless or not.

I agree, although I would say that half her eagerness is due to concern and desperation at this point not just battle lust. Just look at how proud she was to be able to stand with Naruto and Sasuke not long ago, finally feeling like she'd caught up, proved her worth to them and then that "attained" goal got ripped out from under her feet. 

It doesn't make sense for Kishimoto to do that to her when she's standing ( falling Atm) right there with them. That's like saying "Oh lemme just have two members of original team 7 just kinda stand here like fodder-nin and do nothing while the fate of the world hangs in the balance."  On the other hand half the time what Kishimoto does doesn't make sense to begin with, so meh. 

Still, look at it realistically with Sakura's character, with the current situation and Sasuke's fat mouth needing it's words shoved back in I would bet money that Sakura's up for something. I don't get why anyone thinks that Kakashi and Sakura JUST standing there watching is going to work out well. 

I think its perfectly reasonable to assume or hypothesize that something is going to happen with Sakura. One of her biggest character points is NOT looking at Sasuke and Naruto's back. Is NOT being useless, which she kinda is at the moment...It just doesn't make sense to have her there for this and for her big life motivation to be about standing as an equal with Naruto and Sasuke only to NOT be able to attain her goals in the end.

Plus, Sasuke word stomping her and Kakashi calls for a sharp lesson It just seems silly to let it go no where. 

Either Madara will come back as a spirit before death or it's like Korra season 2. Once the main villain is taken over, that's it. You won't see him again, only the greater evil. To be honest, the latter could happen.

It just seems kinda lacking. He was all hyped up as this big bad for nearly the entire second half and then BAM outta no where he just goes out. Then again Kishi loves to Yo-yo stuff around, so why am I surprised? "Its Tobi! who may be obito-no wait its madara! no wait ITS OBITO- no wait its-" 

I don't even try to presume to know what Kishimoto is doing anymore. 

They were aware that the limbos are there, they went to save Sakura, it's show by Sasuke's panel and Naruto telling Sakura to wait.
 
Madara got new powers and they werent supposed from a battle perspective to attack first, because you dont attack an opponent that you dont know what kind of new abilities he has on his sleeve now, the best plan was to wait and counter-attack.
That's how shounend works.

False, from a tactical stand point whether in fiction or non fiction sometimes the absolute best course of action is to attack BEFORE you are attacked. If you wait until you are being attacked you might never get a strike in against your opponent. If you at least go first you have a chance of causing some damage before you get taken out.

What Sakura did was actually pretty wise, she plays the defense/Distraction by being the meat shield (since she can't really die...) and Naruto and Sasuke go the offensive route since they are stronger. Its a common tactic in games when you think about. You've got the merc, and two high damage players beating the crap out of the monster whose to busy gnawing at the meat shield. 

The only problem is that they have no idea what the limits and abilities of the limbo really are. ( especially not Sakura.) That and their teamwork absolutely sucks thanks to Sasuke wanking it up.


On another note...Seriously, There are some things Kishi does really well and then there are other things he utterly fails at- like writing ACTUAL best friend relationships.

Shino's a better friend then Sasuke to Naruto, and if we all want to be brutally honest- Sakura is the closest friend he's got. Sasuke has not been Naruto's friend since he tried to kill him in the VoE, all his is now is a rival. The only reason Sasuke's working with Naruto is because he NEEDS him. If it weren't for that, he'd have let Naruto fall into trance just like everyone else. 

Every time I hear someone call Sasuke Naruto's "friend" I cringe. In my opinion if these were real life people Naruto and Sakura would be seeing a psychiatrist for their Sasuke obsession 'cause that crap is not healthy. 

 

One is annoying and one is ok. I'm kidding, but I do think someone should explain it here.

I'll try to do that; 
 

-San is the equivalent of Mr/Mrs/miss in the English language, Its gender neutral and can be applied to equals of any age. Its both informal and formal. Married couples CAN use it when referring to one another, but that is a bit formal. 

-Kun is used by those of senior status addressing those their junior- like Kabuto or Iruka calling Naruto, "Naruto-kun." Its generally used to refer to boys, but the rule is not stone and it can be used when referring to a girl, such as an older male employee to a younger coworker. It can also be used by a teacher to female students. ( i forgot to mention this...and it was one of the more important parts!) Its also used by females when addressing a boy they are like or have known for a long time.

-Chan is a diminutive, its used to show that the speaker finds the person likable or to cute up a person's name. It can be used for babies, young women, young children, lovers, or close friends. 

-Sama is a formal version of -San, its more respectful and used for those of a much higher ranking then oneself. its also used when referring to customers and audience members, guests and deities. 

Its important to remember that these rules have SOME sway to personal preferences between two individuals. 
 

*Huge sigh of relief* Okay, so can I just say how twistedly happy I am that Sasuke's still the same selfish, unbelievably foolish brat he ever was?  If it keeps up like this then the notion of him having a "Happy end" is nearly impossible, especially as a redeemed member of Team 7. Which I'm more than fine with. He may have been there first, but that does not make him more deserving than Sai. 

His lack of regard for ANYONE but himself ( and his dead family/pride/honor- which Ironically he has NONE of...) Is just so glaring at this point I cannot see how people can HOPE for his redemption. I just feel done with him.

I've long since recognized that the arrogantly cute little chuunin he once was is never, never coming back, Team 7 has changed, every last one of them. There isn't a place for the person Sasuke is now on it. 


Also, am I the only one who doesn't care about Karin's creepy fetish? she's not really all that important as a character, but I do think she's a clear demonstration of the difference between what people CLAIM Sakura is, and what Sakura actually is. Same with Hinata really. 

Speaking of Sakura...Dat smile...That was so fake even Magoo could see through it. Also, it seems shady. Sai knows she's lying yet Sakura denies it...I think she's up to something...hopefully it's a set up for her attempting to once more engage Sasuke...this time with Naruto...
O.M.G *Mindblown* What has Kakashi been saying to them since day one?

Team work. 

Sakura and Naruto have both tried to engage Sauske Solo...so maybe this will once more be a set up on the importance of relying on your comrades?

Also...Tsunade did seemed startled to realize that Sakura had summoned Katsuyu...( Totally disappointed no other slugs have been mentioned yet *Le sigh* I mean come on...there HAVE to be other slugs...) I wonder why....and Oh yeaa~ I wanna see what she has to say to her student when they meet face to face once more! 


And Finally... DON'T DIE AGAIN KAKASHI! ( You're missing the Team 7 action ;___; not that you'd probably wanna be there to see Sasuke ONCE AGAIN trash everything you taught him...)

Ps: The thread is growing so fast...

 

You forget to put Anaki's betraya track.

 I like the prospect that Sasuke going dark, even some people say rumors that Sakura will confess again, but I do not like of some comments say that Sakura would try to pretend to take side with Sasuke again.

There is no way on this planet or the next that Sakura would confess again, ploy or not.

Sasuke would know in an INSTANT that she was lying and it would get her nowhere just like the last time. 

Secondly, anyone who says Sakura is going to confess her love for Sasuke and that they'll run off together while Naruto looks on...is a supporter of character UNdevelopement and should be ignored. It would just destroy everything Sakura has become by this point. Only someone who absolutely hated her and felt threatened by her would wish for that to happen.  

Oh dear baby Jesus....I had to retype all of this junk out  Why? Just why Google chrome?
 

It's showing hinata and sakura are one and opposite, I completely agree. As sakura is somewhat able to find herself and try to get over her love for someone who does now return it, she finds something better to cling onto and fight for such as her village, her teammates, etc.. While hinata is still stuck in a place where she is still running her feelings through for someone who most likely like 99% will not return her feelings romantically. Simple as that, hinata needs to find a different source for her strength and more than one way to define who she is because as much as people say sakura's character is an asspull, the real asspull seems to be hinata.

Even if you compare part one Sakura with current Hinata, Sakura would win. Even at her fangirly stage Sasuke did not take ABSOLUTE precedent in her life. She was willing to Sacrifice herself for Naruto's dreams, and she went as far as to call Sasuke cowardly...Hinata not once has put someone over Naruto. Not her friends and teammates, not even her family. Her absolute ONLY goal seems to revolve around being useful/noticed/besides Naruto.

It's not cute,It's not Heroic nor something to admire about her.

It's creepy, not to mention unhealthy
 

This is something I've been saying all along.

After Sakura's confession, I feel like Kishi is somewhat taking revenge on the audience by doing this with Hinata, for calling her the heroine and hating on Sakura...

Well at least I'm not the only one whose noticed it...What really got me to this conclusion was the fact that he had that major gripe about "You say Hinata, Hinata, Hinata, I say she's not Hinata." Spiel. I mean If I were a bigshot writer and i had people running around saying So and so was the Heroine while simultaneously telling me the person I KNEW was the Heroine was a POS character...I'd get pretty prissy with those fans very fast and seek out some way to bring them down a notch.

What better way to do that then to make the fan favorite character exhibit the same characteristics they often site as being the reason the actual Heroine sucks?
 

 

I've been thinking about that too. It would seem he's angry at the NH fandom and the haters for hating Sakura. When you look at Hinata it might be that he's poking fun at them. I really can't explain it but that's how I see it. One would think she will move on from Naruto after she confessed to him at 437 but she kept her obsession all the way to the fourth war arc and she's still thinking as if she has a chance to be with him, but she's NOT going to do a damn thing about it. She's not going to go to Naruto and tell him" let's get together Naruto-kun", nothing of the sort. She's going to continue thinking and fantasizing about him with out doing anything. It really feels like Kishi is doing this to her character to get even with the NH fans and the Sakura haters. 

I personally cannot see why Hinata's feelings would be shoved down the readers throats like it is unless A. It's actually going to go somewhere ( Which I don't think it will.) or B. He's trying to prove a point to the audience...Which would be "Oh so you think Sakura's a sucky, useless, fangirl character? Well what about your beloved Hinata?" 

unfortunately it fails to be picked up on by the majority of the audience...

On the other hand, It could just be that at this point Hinata really doesn't care about Romance anymore. It could be that she just wants to be useful to someone she admires.

My problem is 90% of the time all we hear from her is NARUTO NARUTO NARUTO. It's annoying. Can't we hear her talk about Shino and Kiba, and Kurenei and how much THEY'VE done for her rather then someone whose is barely ever shown to interact with her? You would think that more importance would be placed on those three when it comes to her, rather then Naruto. 
 

Am I like the only one who thinks that Kishimoto is trying to sort of...subtly poke fun at all of the Sakura haters through Hinata? ( In a way that's completely lost on them much like almost the entire series 90% of the time.)

I mean just look:

Hinata: Naruto-kun, Naruto-kun's hand, Naruto-kun's side, blah blah blah...

To me it feels like She's almost EXACTLY like Part one Sakura, only with so much LESS depth. She feels like cardboard and her constant clinging to Naruto and his Ideal's only seems to further it. Absolutely EVERYTHING to her ends up being attached to Naruto in some way. ( Sattelite character to the max) 

Meanwhile, Sakura went from Sasuke-kun this, Sasuke-kun that to "How can I be of use, to all of team seven and therefore my village?" Her life, her goals and Ideals no longer revolve around a single person, in the excact opposite of Hinata's character...

Which leads me to wonder why there is such a hero worship over Hinata... ( I don't mean to be sounding like a Hater...Hinata's Okay, but not my favorite by far.)

It really feels to me like Kishimoto is trying to make a point about Hinata and Sakura's characters, especially lately. 
 

@Tsuki - Yeah, Kishi has really backed himself into a corner with Sasuke and is final destination/resolution.... It's probably going to be a troll fest....

Tell me about it, when you HONESTLY think about it, if Kishimoto turns around and writes that "Okay boys and girls, even though this guy betrayed his village, abandoned his friends and makeshift family, aligned himself with a traitor and a criminal, became a traitor and a criminal, attempted to kill said Friends and makeshift Family, then went on to nearly kill/abandon his new team, attacked another village and attempted to kill people from there, BUT It's okay, he's been forgiven."

What message exactly does that send to people? particularly the target age group? "Oh hey, it doesn't matter what you do, no matter how terrible, no matter how harmful, you too can get away without consequence!" 

I'm all for people being able to redeem themselves, but the problem with Sasuke is that A. He's not redeemed himself, he has not suffered for his OWN mistakes, poor decisions and overall just being a ROTTEN person.

No matter how this ends though, someone is going to be displeased. If Naruto, Konoha and the alliance decide " Oh what the hay! it's a new world, it's a new day Lets just wash all the sins away and start over again" people are going to be like "Uhuh....Right then."

And if he does die, people are going to be like "Oh what the flip Kishi!" 

It's just so, SO difficult to see Sauske just waltzing back into Konoha to live the rest of his days peacefully, or even just wandering from place to place without any real aftereffects given all that he's done, both because of the message that sends to others and because of all the other villages who may not be so forgiving after everything is said and done. 

Yeah maybe Sasuke will agree to disagree with Naruto/shinobi alliance and leave with team Taka...

Logistically though, how does this work? ( i'm not saying i disagree, because it's highly plausible that this is what will occur.) It's not just Konoha that he has to deal with, but all the other nations as well, and because he originated from Konoha isn't their inaction against his...willfulness going to cause frictions?

This whole, How Sasuke's journey ends seems like a HUGE minepit that Kishimoto has worked himself into. 

Maybe he's just finally grown up. I mean Sasuke not having a happy ending just seems like a tragedy. He's been manipulated all his life and now that he's finally got the truth he's on a better path, isn't that a good thing? I can understand him being on a very tight leash from now on, but if he can prove he's not a threat to anyone then I don't see why he can't live a happy life.

But he's really NOT on a better path, thats the whole problem. He hasn't really learned ANYTHING as shown by his "I'll take it by force, I don't give a flying flip what you guys say or do otherwise."  Not to mention the fact that he like a total spoiled, selfish child has the gall to whine "Oh I figured you guys couldn't let bygones be bygones." After trying to kill Sakura, Naruto ( Twice) and Kakashi, not to mention causing major trouble between Konoha and other Villages. He's learned NOTHING.

YES he's suffered, but not due to his own actions, and his own decisions. Not yet at least. Sasuke has suffered because of his village's, his family's and his brother's decisions and actions, but never his own. He HAS to be held accountable for those things because he was directly responsible for them. 

Putting him on "House arrest" Just doesn't cut it IMO. 

As for him having a happy life...maybe that's possible, but not in Konoha where (Probably) the majority of people will always look at him like trash, and as for him having a peaceful life...Even if he goes wandering from place to place, someone in my opinion will always be after him. 
 

Oh that... Well, what can you do? It's a pairing community after all, the one thing people is concerned about the most is the fate of NS I believe. That's why our fandom jumps out of pants every time there's SS or NH "hints". Even if there's NO romantic subplot people see the danger.

I don't jump at all. It's been obvious since Day one where Kishi was going with this. 

The "loser" gets the girl. Of course it would be the Main Girl. That's how these things almost ALWAYS work. 

Now, if there were TWO main girls, there would be more trouble with figuring this out, but there is only one despite what many others would like to believe >___>