sushi.

  Guys, guys, guys! Let's not get into an argument. Bail,sushi, you both are right about this discussion.

oh I'm very nice until someone else is not.   It's not about being right or wrong and I can handle a disagreement. But it's easy to see if someone wants a showdown with you or have a chat. When someone posts a thought out analysis, and the other says "Do you actually mean *insert outrageous opinion*?", people will never stop clarifying themselves. That Cathy Newman interview with Jordan Peterson rings a bell. So if I think only oppressed people can be sad..you decide.

 

In any case, Naruto unfairly compared two struggles when they were apples and oranges. I understand that the ending butchered the characters, but the hero and heroine never brought the branch system up again, and Neji dying for them makes it even worse --- so they deserve all my booing. : ) 

Again, look at the scene. Naruto doesn't deny he suffered, but he points out Neji is not the only one who is suffering. Has a seal that makes everyone see you as less then Human? *Points to Naruto*
 
Naruto point is that both sides are suffering due to that clan's caste system. Hizashi was made a slave that exists to die for his brother, and Hiashi had to watch his brother die for him. Neji is a born genius that is held back by being of the lesser branch, Hinata is a failure that struggles to met the demanding expectations of the main branch. 
 
The problem is Naruto promised to help fix it but that was abandon & buried with Neji's death because they didn't want the heroine to have the awkward "former slave master" title attached to her.

You said two of the scenes I mentioned were anime only and when I offered you evidence you demanded I found it. It doesnt hurt to be polite, ask or give thanks. Then I showed you the panels and you changed your point entirely. You know that I never said Naruto denied Nejis pain. He acknowledged it, without expressing sympathy. Had his words been somewhat different, like «I understand your pain but your cousin is hurting as well», itd be easier to stomach.

Hinatas pain is due to neglect because she was an underdog, not because of the branch system. We dont know how the system makes Hinata feel. And Hiashi was head of the clan, he wasnt made to kill his brother. He did it on his own accord. He never showed internal struggle or hesitate, he was in favor of the system.

The Neji bit was a mangapanel. I remember because I recently read an anti hyuuga analysis, and I can try find it if you want. The part about the seal and how main house members could control the branch was in the same post. Hiashi used it against kid Nej, he then fell on the ground holding his head while screaming. And once Hinata turned 3, Neji was "assigned" to her as a bodyguard/servant/slave. Yeah..: / I had forgotten most of these scenes so I didn't know how bad the hyuuga slavery was. So it was always strange that Neji befriended Hinata after his match with Naruto, when Hinata hadn't done anything to change their positions, and Naruto clearly didn't understand him, like he understood the villains that resembled him. Promoting Hinata to love interest/heroine could actually make that plot relevant again. It's not enough to put flowers on Neji's grave.

 

And I didn't know Kishi lost his editor! It surprised me for a second but it all makes sense. I think very little of the ending was planned, probably the final fight, becoming hokage etc. So that the couples weren't planned either isn't really a radical statement.

I'd say Kaguya was evil for the sake of being evil if only because Kishimoto cared so little about her, he didn't bother with a tragic back story like he does all the other villains except Hidan, Mizuki, and Gato.

 

Like Sushi said Kishimoto liked beating in the message he had for every villain. The true villain is the ninja system with the antagonist being victims of the ninja system. Naruto would also be just like them if he gave up but he doesn't because X. So, realizing this Naruto tries to help the ones he can to not give up as well; redeeming them.

 

The problem with it was that Kishimoto by the end forgot what Naruto was actually going to do. He spent so much time building up the great final fight between Naruto And Sasuke he forgot to think of anything that came after, nor did he think of anything when the executives decided that they wanted to changed the story to more hinata focus to appeal to western fans.

I mean, I like the idea. Corrupt governments are so fun. But Kishi is good at abandoning plots in the middle of it. Narusaku is a scrapped idea too, because people didn't respond the way he wanted to. I think Kishi is very vurnerable to criticism, or gets tired of his stories.

 

I think it all went downhill after pain arc. Obito is just not my dude. And Orochimaru is an ally of konoha in the burrito series, lmao? Zabuza and Haku were great villains. Their story was gut-wrenching, yet their actions weren't excused. It evolved into a pity party. Just imagine Sasuke saving Danzo from the darkness and calling him good or something. Makes you wonder who's really lost it. In the end I got confused whether Naruto was supposed to save people from loneliness, or crush the system that breeds that pain. Sasuke and Nagato were in the "darkness", but they had a point. 

 

And I understand the repetition, but every villain had to be the "same" as Naruto, and Naruto was almost the only lonely guy not a villain. Those that suffered under the shinobi system differently than him didn't get the same emphathy. Half of the hyuugas had seals on their foreheads that the other half could snap their fingers to activate, which would cause tremendous pain used to control them. Hinata's dad once used it on Neji because he beat her in a fight. And Naruto told him during their match that Hinata had suffered just as much as him. Her pain was just more similar to Naruto's, but nowhere near as Neji's. It makes him dying for these two people even more sick, and Naruto's TnJ borderline narcissistic.

 

Yeah, it is the most hypocritical thing. Every other female character is bashed.
"Ino dresses like a wh*re"
But it is okay if Hinata wanted to...especially RtN

"Sakura is abusive and a kitten"
But Hinata is worse "she is strong and independent." 

The excuses for Hinata are almost as bad as Sasuke's

I think many NH fans are just incel Naruto fans. They're not Hinata fans. They bashed Sakura for not loving Naruto, for being a jerk to him. OK, same logic: They didn't care about Naruto ignoring Hinata for the whole manga, or for forgetting her confession and the apparently wonderful childhood time they spent together. They just really liked Hinata's feelings for him. 

 

Vanitas: The real villain was the shinobi system. That was how it was written. And T7 realized that early on, they even talked about how wrong it was. Because of Zabuza and Haku. They were onto something ya know. Then Nagato, Obito, Sasuke, even Madara - is written as a victim of the same villain. Kishi really loves repeating things to shoehorn his message. His original themes were surpassing the previous generations, their mistakes and so on. Do what they couldn't. He does this with parallels as well. Naruto and Sasuke would see eye to eye, the way Madara and Hashirama couldn't, and Naruto and Sakura would start a family in the newfound peace, the way the previous couples were killed by war. I really like Sasuke the revolutionary and Naruto the reformist - it'd be interesting to see how they meet halfway. But the shinobi system still exists in burrito. Naruto's conclusion was to endure it. Because the words shinobi and endure have the same kanji or something.

 

The ending to me, is somewhat realistic - because justice doesn't always win, and love doesn't either. But it's not a shonen ending at all. 

Kishi failed Hinata as well. Her tsundere moments exist in the Boruto manga and SD, which aren't written by him. In the Boruto movie, she's a background character, a mere housewife and quite docile at that. She's not the heroine she was in The Last. She gets injured off screen, and she's still a chuunin. Which means she's on par with Iruka in terms of fighting. The ending does not please Hinata, only some of her fans. Which makes it obvious they don't care for her either. She was a prestigious clan heiress stripped of her birthright, she should've either fought to become head of the clan, or find her own path. 

 

Kishi assumed people only liked Hinata for her boobs, but a good writer should value all his characters. He said that she stays in the background watching Naruto from afar, and late in the manga she vows to stand beside him. Then 3Y later she's still watching him from afar, they don't even spend time together as friends.. and Sakura has to matchmake them. 

 

This sexism extends to Sakura as well and frankly most female characters. Because it's about his conservative ideology not his opinion of Hinata as a person. 

tbh. It's funny. I'm not even mad. She had to become Sakura :')The canonverse is literally the RTN verse. (I found this theory and it's neat af https://orenjisakura...nite-tsukuyomi)

 

https://qph.fs.quora...04156805a04543c

https://64.media.tum...1b7bko1_400.png

 

 I remember the og SD, a heavy dose of NS. ya know, I liked this too. http://images6.fanpo...873-493-301.jpg

I think the worst thing about the ending is that the ships sucked up every other plot. The ending was reduced to solely who made babies with who, to continue the franchise and please the west. Its not the first time they utilize nh/ss popularity. Before RTN was revealed to be a huge NS movie, it looked to be NH/SS through the promotions. That to me means that the ships were a marketing ploy that went wrong.

The worst thing is, the ninja system was never changed. Naruto promised Nagato to bring his village peace, on Boruto Ame is a wasteland full of criminals, because of the void left behind by the leaders death. The Hyuuga slavery, Uchiha massacre and child soldiers was never changed. Sasuke was justified in most things he did, except joining the akatsuki. The political problems were reduced to feelings of loneliness and «hatred» by Naruto.

I would prefer another arc after the war, which would resolve the political issues, focus on T7, solve the lovetriangle and the traumatic aftermath of the war. And Id prefer Neji to live, for Hiashi to die instead of him. Itd redeem him somehow, and the older generation was supposed to protect the newer one, an ongoing theme. Then Neji and Hinata would fix the Hyuuga clan together, possibly through a marriage or just comradery, but their relationship could def unite the clan into one.

This just brings more questions, Why pre ending? Why Naruto and Sakura and not just Naruto? , Why not something from Boruto?. Wish know what's going on in Kishimoto's mind

Because thats not his legacy. And idk if he is apathetic to boruto or dislikes it, but if he had any interest he wouldve written it himself. And when he does, he goes hard on SNS because thats the only thing that survived the retcon. And the anti nh/ss vibes are obvious when he writes it. Wonder how this is gonna go now that he has the pen, lol

You know what just occurred to me about NS fans and SS fans about Sakura? We care about Sakura's well being. We want her to be with a person that treats her right rather be with a douchebag like Sasuke.

Sakuras confession, and Sasukes reaction to it, ruined both NS and SS. He plainly said he wasnt interested. Its like it was done on purpose, at that time Sasuke was supposed to be good. And usually I dont blame Sasukes treatment of Sakura because she really does annoy him, but putting a genjutsu on her that he kills her was a bit much. And SS fans say Sakura thinks Naruto is annoying which is a bit lol). Kishi couldve made the best out of the situation, instead he made a bigger wreck of it. TL couldve included some NH moments in the manga but it made up retcon moments instead.

The same with Hinatas tripping. Both moments were so late in the series Kishi had got to know the ending at that point. I always felt like Kishi was very bitter about his ending. Would explain Himawari knocking her dad out on his most important day, Narutos treatment of Hinatas bento etc.

Besides Sakura lost her position as the heroine the moment she was no longer the love interest. SS fans should be mad. When asked if NS was to be endgame, Kishi said Sakura was not a heroine, no more important than Kiba, even though that was not the question. He also made her jealous of Hinata being the heroine.

That's where I'm generally my stance when it comes to Masashi Kishimoto.  Kishimoto bares a good degree of fault for the current state of the series, but I'd be a prick to ignore the fact that he was in mourning during the final stages of Naruto over his father while constantly harassed by meddling television executives, editors and even overseas fans over a moe doll that even he derided.  I just wish he'd stop trying to cover his and Studio Pierrot's ass by making claims that "NaruHina was always planned." I mean, he had no problem badmouthing SasuSaku as toxic and openly suggesting that they'd divorce in the future, and its popularity is on the same scale as NaruHina or NaruSaku. 

I dont remember saying SS would divorce is that really true? There are many contradicting statements, Chie apparently was told about SS from the start but thats unbelievable lol, and she also said Sakuras confession to Naruto was genuine.

Yeah that definitely was the intention with this panel.
 
Too bad that Yamato scene at the Heaven & Earth bridge in canon really ended up being a total waste.

It wasnt a waste, its evidence there was a change of plans. Think of it that way.

Dems are not leftists and big tech is peak capitalism. Politicians arent puppets, but allies to wall street. They are not under the influence of threats, but money. Are you seriously saying being banned from twitter is communism? If you think politics is humanitys cancer, you wont be able to find an ideology that doesnt exist today. Its all capitalism or communism and fusions of those.

And the blue and red team in the us have a 70% overlap, and these arent my words but those of a former, right wing corporatist president. But crime and poverty rate is muchmuch worse in red states. Alaska and some a chunk of the south are usually the worst.

I understood why people believed Trump in 2k16, but those that still do are borderline neofascists. The excuses expired years ago.

Don't really know where to post this, but it's somewhat related to this.
Just want to say to all of you stay safe considering what's happening now. From both the protesters and the cops because both can and will become violent towards you, even if you did nothing wrong.

Do the protesters attack people too? I've heard them crashing stores, but I haven't heard about them attacking bystanders. But I've heard stories that the police will shoot and spray you even if you're a reporter or a passerby. : (

And watch out for the police even if they are kneeling sith you. They do it for the PR and many spray a crowd right after a heartfelt picture. Dont trust the cops and question all of them.

That's good you're okay, but yeah it's definitely still scary when you're around people who are vulnerable. For a time, there was talk I'd have to work even after my state issued shelter in place orders and I was worried about exposing my mom, who's only recovered in the last few years from severe asthma. Someone I know by acquaintance died recently from the virus even with no known underlying conditions. I'm not sure about the risks for those with type 2 diabetes, but I think there's probably no thing as being too careful with this.

Yeah I heard a kid died in UK and a teen in the US. Did your acquintance die with or without treatment? If you're in the US many avoid treatment because it can cost $10k, with insurance. And without sick leave, people with symptoms will infect others : ( I hope your mom will be fine, if you live in the US I heard many are not taking it seriously.

 

I'm actually not that stressed out, I think other countries have it much worse. I worry about the US, their president, lack of sick leave(will people with symptoms go to work?), dense population and the $$$ hospital bills. I Just came home and I only saw a few people going on walks. And we're allowed to see nearest family, so I see my parents and my aunt. I recently baked some goodies for my granddad and met him across the hall in his apartment building, where we sat down and had a distant chat. Real cozy. 

My government just announced they got the virus under control, and hospitalized people half as they were at the peak. Up to 10 people die every day, but that's a low number isn't it? Kindergardens, school and some businesses will open next week, but with precautions(such as one customer per hairsalon etc). The gov also sent a team of 20 to Italy, I hope they send one to Spain as well. 

My grandmother has Type 2 diabetes and so far, besides the sinuses, she's okay. However, we currently have a death in the family but that was something else, not the COVID-19, before the shutdown even happen.  But I'm hearing that people who either smoke (especially vaping) or have bad respiratory systems are at risk.

My dad smoked for decades his lungs are probably full of ash. D:But he quit and started e-cigarettes years ago.