Yet I get the same thing for people with similar opinions as yours with the people who find even slight fault with it.

"Oh the chapter was so good. You're just a pessimist. You don't see the good writing that's in it."

That's kind of the same way of talking to be honest with you and I feel threatened by it. Keep in mind, this is exactly what caused the same problems when 615 came out and both optimist and pessimist were at each others throats the whole time with many getting banned for it.
I don't think the chapter was as good. I thought it was "meh" at best.

And I have still yet to get an answer for something. Wasn't Sasuke going to destroy Konoha, so why is he saving it now? If he decides not to destroy it, then in what other way is he going to be evil to have the Naruto vs Sasuke fight to occur. You just can't fight to fight, there has to be some kind of selfish desire from Sasuke. Even if that desire is "I want a strong opponent."

So how is Kishi going to make Sasuke appear half good, but still evil enough to warrant a Naruto vs Sasuke fight. This is confusing me the most about it and I am a little worried about the future of the manga story itself. What if Kishi makes Sasuke go 100% evil again just to make a the fight occur? Wouldn't that make this chapter pointless?

Okay, so Sasuke redemption doesn't bother me: This is completely a given. Not the way I would have envisioned it, but whatever. I would have found it easier if Sasuke started having doubts by this time, but I find him going to 50% good is a little too much development in such a short time. Plus the fact that he wants to fight in the war to protect Itachi's dream or whatever only to destroy the Konoha later which is Itachi's dream is...weird to me. So what is the real story? However, the redemption still doesn't guarantee survival, nor canon pairing.

Do you care more about Sasuke's redemption or Naruto succeeding? Cause Kishi could make Sasuke be redeemed right now and Naruto's involvement non existent. Making Naruto's role as a main character become nothing. So, it's great that Sasuke is changing....again....,but where does this leave Naruto? His whole life was to bring Sasuke back to the light and if it feels like he hardly did anything to change Sasuke, then...what? Do we care more about Sasuke's life or Naruto's?

Right now, it looks Sasuke can change his heart without Naruto doing anything at all. I want Naruto to do something to really change Sasuke.

and what about Sakura?

This is my worry above all else. It's great in the short run, but the more development Sasuke gets to "change," the more diminished role Naruto and Sakura have on Sasuke. Not only that, but if it all ends up going full circle, then the whole manga was just a waste of time to begin with and this is what I fear for the ending itself. So how is Kishi going to make it so Naruto makes this great impact and still keep this chapter legit and without diminishing anything. This really has to be the final development for Sasuke otherwise Kishi is going to put himself in the corner where Hinata is the heroine and Sasuke is the main character when really it should be Sakura the heroine and Naruto the main character.

I am also not too fond of what Kishi did to Karin in this chapter, but it seems like I am the only one who really gives a crap. Sorry, the guy tried to kill you. It shouldn't be THAT easy to forgive him for it. No girl in reality is that forgiving and even if she is she was abused to be so.

Why do I feel the like the whole mentality is like: "You have to like this chapter cause it was so good, but if you find fault you are wrong."

As long as this chapter didn't effect NaruSaku in any way (Didn't read it yet) I'm fine.

Did it?

Sounds more like SasuKarin.

This.


Yeah, it really has. I blamed the last two arcs, especially HM arc. By god, talk about a sequel arc that only doing the same as the first one.

Yeah this.

I think we need to draw a line here about something. Some members are confusing how people feel on this.

For example, Sasuke changing to good is not unexpected and it has been hinted at, this is true. However, what is unexpected is what Derock said nicely: Naruto did nothing to change that impact. I could even argue that every time Naruto and Sasuke were on screen, things got worse not better. We also have these characters who are flipping faster than coins on decisions making. This was my problem with Sasuke since the beginning, but no one listened to me and they still don't.

All I will say is this in order for a Naruto vs Sasuke fight to happen: Sasuke HAS to be evil.

If Sasuke was a Batman villain, he really would be "Two-Face" as he seems to hold that split personality.

Unfortunately, you're not getting the message behind these flashbacks.

What the flashbacks show us is how human all of them are. Butsuma is shown to be as heartless and cruel as the Uchiha. This shows us how the Senju aren't exactly the good side. In the meanwhile, we see how human Madara is. He's not just some crazy warmongering kitten. Apparently, he had a more positive outlook on life when he was a child. It just goes to show you no one is born inherently evil in the series.

Hashirama killing his own father would add some more depth to his character. Even he has some blood on his hands.

Huh. Well people have already said it, but the NaruSasu friendship is nothing compared to the HashiMada friendship. Even in a time when clans brutally fought against each other, Hashirama and Madara trained together, confided with each other, and shared the same hopes and dreams. Sasuke acknowledged Naruto like...4 times, and then went crazy and tried to murder him. Some other things though....

I'm still not sure how I feel about Kishi making the villains seem more and more like victims. Like it's great for developmental reasons I guess...but I just want a villain to hate. Like I can't really dislike Obito, because he's victim to the MS, and now I'm starting to like kid Madara. He always does this to us. Right when the bad guy is about to die/lose, he makes you think... "WAIT! HE WAS A GOOD GUY?!" I don't know, may just be me.

Also, I'm starting to worry about how a final Sasuke vs Naruto fight is going to fit with all this. Like will Sasuke just totally ignore the Hokages? But what if he does accept their answers? What reason does he have for fighting Naruto to the death? Just doesn't add up.

Anyways I guess this was a pretty good chapter. Wasn't really an amazing cliffhanger for me cause we know all the kids are going to survive.

I don't know what to think of this chapter. It was boring, but the relationship between Madara and Hashirama is much more believable than the SasuNaru bond. On the other hand, not much happens in one chapter of Naruto. Only one or two important things in every chapter. I read the chapters faster than any other manga. Kishi can also sometimes waste panels, with for instance people walking on the ground, or showing the same panel in another angle.


And you are complaining about people who are complaining

So.... Hashirama was an person that completely hated the fact that children went to fight and die at wars with an young age.... and yet up to this day 12 years old kids graduate from the konoha academy and go to missions that can be their last.

....

*cues for an sarcastic single clap*

You know, Obito plan isn't sounding so bad anymore, maybe the shinobi world have no fixing after all.

IMO, Orochimaru is still a better villain than Kabuto. He was ambitious and what he did was rooted in the most selfish, least sympathetic one so far. Kabuto was a good villain until he became victimized like the rest of them and owned by Itachi. From what I remember, Kabuto just stole Orochimaru's cells. It wasn't even his real power, just borrowed. I really didn't like that, but I found him a good villain until Itachi ruined everything. Props to Kabuto for still not realizing the error of his ways in Izanami so far.

Orochimaru is the best villain, I hope so much Kishimoto does not ruin that. Please no. Obito, Madara (somewhat) I can handle ... but Orochimaru? Come on now.

Unlike most flashbacks, this one is in the same vein as the Kyuubi flashback. Both explains the true story of what happened and moves the plot along. If you're complaining about this, then you're asking for more brainless action and less substance, like DBZ. Also, unless you haven't been following the fandom, this flashback is the flashback everyone's been waiting for.

As for Hashirama, there's a reason he's doing this. He's seeing the bigger picture. He knows that if he let Sasuke be, he'll just turn into another Madara. That would just make the situation worse than it is now. That's why he's doing the right thing now. It's better for him to try persuading Sasuke than doing nothing. And besides, he trusts the ones on the battlefield to handle it until they get there. That's the true mark of a leader. He's even said it before, to be a Hokage he needs to believe in his people.

We've never seen what's going on in these flashbacks. And these flashbacks might actually matter in the future since Sasuke has again been paralleled to Madara and Naruto is obviously paralleled to Shodaime

That would be nice to see but dunno what to think anymore since he trolled Sakura...dare I say, beyond repair. Because he left the people understand with 615 that behind Naruto, was Hinata. She is the first lady, bla bla and I don't know what will top that!

For me it's the same speech that Madara made to Obito.
Now Tobirama's speech that Uchiha's power comes from love was retarded.

So let me get this straight, the source of all of the Uchiha's hatred is that they love too much? but didn't both Sasuke and Obito unlock the Sharingan when they were close to death? So that means they loved themselves more than anyone else? I'm going to have to reread the chapter to make better sense of it. On the whole the chapter spent too much time waffling on, I have a feeling it's going to take longer to finish telling us the backstory than I will be happy with.

Hmm, the whole pairing stuff really would be out of the blue. Most fans, us included and any shippers just make too many assumptions, we tend to get to ahead of ourselves.

As for the possiblity of SS, its just not there, Kishimoto said Sakura's love for Sasuke was selfish but she does really love him, just we still don't know what will happen and if SS happens out of the blue, it would be just like NaruHina but worse and for all the wrong reasons. No speech of emotion is going to fill Sasuke up with love, hatred brings more power and we saw that, the sharigan can basically be thought of as the force from star wars, light side and dark side but the dark side gives much more power. Thats just it. Besides I can see Sasuke liking team 7 as friends as a whole, much in the way Naruto viewed team 7 as a family, Sasuke may eventually come to view it like that too. But the possiblitiy of SasuSaku just makes no sense out of this, I mean how many pairings would be made with characters who have had hardly any screentime? I mean least NaruSaku has interaction, thats the main difference among others. NaruSasu is only going to happen cause its a friendship/brother type relation not love.

Besides I sereiously could not fathom Sakura just rushing to Sasuke being all fuzzy and warm after what he pulled in the 5 kage summit arc, I mean she was depressed, we don't know if she is reaffirming her love or still actually in love with him (and we know Sakura's love for Sasuke is not genuine, its a childhood idealistic one). We don't even know what Sakura reacted too last we saw her in 615. If Hinata's development and moment was for that reaction, it could lead to something for Sakura when it comes to Naruto, that is still something we must see.

Other than that, best not to focus on anything pairing wise until well something pairing wise occurs again. We can predict but its best not to assume, I yes there are possiblities Naruto and Minato will meet up or Orochimaru could just dispell them and set them free (most likely going to take them to the battle) there is a lot to come, I mean we have to jump back to the battle soon and see what happens with Naruto and Co next. Not to mention when Sakura and Sai come back, many theroies are still going around. I'm gonna avoid pairing stuff for a while. Keep focused on the current situation with Sasuke which does nothing to any pairing in any way.

agree, btw do you think there's a chance that mito has the same personality as hinata because i'm affraid that kishi will use it as a set up for nh

I love the revelation of Hashirama's personality, that he would be so Naruto like is so unexpected and yet so perfect and to be honest I like how serious and prejudiced Tobirama is, it shows that even the previous Hokage who have been put on pedestals to a degree weren't perfect. It seems to me that Hashirama and Tobirama's interactions will mirror Naruto and Sasuke's at the end of the series.

Poor Tsunade, her grandfather has no faith in her, I really want to see the Hokage enter the battlefield just to have Tsunade and Hashirama interact. Naruto and Minato etc. I also can't help but feel Hashirama will end up being the one to heal Tsunade.

It's going to be interesting to see what Sasuke does from here.

Hashirama is funny, and was a very bad grandpa But it definitely sounds like his heart was in the right place as Hokage, far more than Tobirama.

As far as pairings go for Sasuke, actually I think it hints toward SasuKar- remember Karin's of the Uzumaki clan, and Sasuke knows it now. Don't think that pairing will happen to the end of the manga though. I do think it's pointing toward Sasuke making the choice to be a wanderer at the end.

Well, if you check my earlier post, you can see I called it about a year ago . Of course, you can take that with a grain of salt on whether I really wrote that or not. As for Mito, I think most of the times when she snaps are usually when she finds out Hashirama's been sneaking out of town to gambling dens. Add to the fact that she was a Jinchuuriki, Hashirama's family life must've been hell.