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#220301 *The* Bleach Discussion Thread

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 08 April 2009 - 04:13 PM in Otaku Square

Thanks for that well-thought out post, Miss Soupy! I'll post a few thoughts on some of the things you posted when I have more time. Right now, I'm just "whaaaat theee heeeell?" regarding this latest chapter and need all the brain cells I can spare.

AND I have seen that poster True! Matsumoto! Damn, that hint of garter just... sfdjskfjapisfh!



#219855 Kakashi Gaiden

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 05 April 2009 - 06:19 AM in Konoha Theater

FINALLY. MINATO WILL BE ANIMATED!

And I've always liked to see how they voice Team Minato, hehe. I wonder if animation will make Obito more like Naruto or not.

Thanks for the info, Ani!



#219854 *The* Bleach Discussion Thread

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 05 April 2009 - 06:17 AM in Otaku Square

Sorry, Miss Soupy, this got long. Spoiler-tag so it doesn't affect normal manga discussions. happy.gif

QUOTE (Miss Soupy @ Apr 5 2009, 02:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not sure if Ishida really knew Ulquiorra was dead or not.

This isn't my computer, so I can't dig up the other translations I've found. MangaHelper's Cnet translates Ishida's line as this, though:

QUOTE
Ishida: ...That's enough. // ...Kurosaki.
[TN: The correct response is to go completely psycho and slice Ishida in half too. For the luls.]
Ishida: You've won this battle. // He may be an enemy... / ...but that is no reason to carve up his corpse... // You can stop now... // Kurosaki...

To Ishida, Ulquiorra was already dead. He probably didn't know that Ulquiorra had high regenerating capabilities (which is just weird, he saw him regenerate an arm in seconds, after all), probably didn't hear Ulquiorra tell Ichigo the only way to kill him and didn't know that as uncontrollable as Ichigo currently is, he still pretty much has a goal and that's killing Ulquiorra. Ishida saw the corpse-looking Ulquiorra and came to his own conclusions that Ichigo raising his sword is "carving up his corpse" instead of what we readers saw as the completion of the job. Ichigo, who is uncontrollable and had a goal to complete, probably saw Ishida as an obstacle to his job completion and did what he did.

It's true that Ryuuken told Ishida the way to properly kill a Hollow, but... Ishida's one of my favorites and all (the humans are my favorites), but Kubo seriously messed his characterization up, so if he somehow forgot this little info, I wouldn't be surprised. His interaction with Mayuri in HM... Man, was I cringing.

QUOTE
Ichigo has yet to kill any of the arrancar he has fought, and yet he still is able to advance.

But those cases are different from Ulquiorra because they don't have high regeneration capabilities. All Ichigo needed to do was beat them to a pulp, make sure they're so thoroughly beaten they won't get up any time soon and move forward. They're not a threat anymore. Ulquiorra is different because every time Ulquiorra is beaten, he regenerates and IS able to fight back, as this current chapter has shown us. Being merciful, letting the enemy live, would be stupid because letting Ulquiorra live means letting him regenerate to be a threat again. Unlike the others, Ulquiorra can fight and fight and fight, which is why killing is the way if they want to get away from him.

QUOTE
I don't see Ichigo being too kind-hearted, but rather that he has had a bad idea of the powerful levels of the espada. He was constantly trying to hold himself back, because he thought them weaker than they actually were, and I think lack of understanding of this power difference has been his downfall more than anything.

I'm pretty sure Ichigo knows exactly how powerful the Arrancar/Espada are. HM-Ichigo is different from SS-Ichigo when he was still cocky and thought he could seriously beat Byakuya just because he has an unusual reiatsu power level. He saw how powerful Grimmjow was, what Yammy and Ulquiorra were capable of, and considering his last moments before leaving for HM, he knows how much of a suicidal mission it was. He doesn't look like a man underestimating his opponents at all.

His constant holding back has always read as pacing to me and not underestimation. And given how he was all, "I'll beat GJ, Ulquiorra and Aizen and bring everyone back with me!" speech, it makes sense. He knows the odds because he's done it before at SS. And unlike SS, there is a slim-to-none chance of HM-dwellers rallying to his cause. He needs all the energy he can and going all out every chance he has is not the way to do that.

Considering the fact that there are no breaks, I'd say it hasn't been a day since they entered HM. Orihime's been there for about two or three days and she's already suffered that much torture and went through a dozen emotional roller coasters. Ichigo might be a spirit but that doesn't mean he doesn't get tired. And he's fought so many already.

QUOTE
Well, I feel Orihime needs to be redeemed because of always using Ichigo as a crutch. Going by the sins theme, I'd say Orihime is Sloth. I know a lot of people are pretty annoyed by her behavior. But she is just doing what Ichigo always told her to do: believe in him, that he will win and save everyone. (I still REALLY want her to do something, please Kubo DX )

With her lines this chapter, ("Why did I rely completely on Kurosaki-kun?"), I'm positive we'll be seeing something from her soon. smile.gif Those are usually the cues, after all. Women in really shounen manga have the tendency to always be below the men in power-level, but with a dialogue like that, I'm hoping for more action too. And this is a woman with Universe-breaking powers. I'm really excited about it.

I can't see Orihime as Sloth, though, because she has been consistently trying to improve herself, which doesn't really fit the Sloth theme at all. I really don't see how she's been inactive in HM either because she's doing what she's capable of during the times when she can do something. She's crippled by her self-esteem issues to the point that she was surprised her friends came for her to Las Noches. And just as she started to hope that they can help her, that they came because they cared for her, she felt them go down one-by-one with Ulquiorra pushing that it's her fault they're dead (even as she helplessly says they're not dead). It's just a whole arc of breaking her so I can't see how she needs to be redeemed for that.

I really can't remember her using Ichigo as a crutch either. Would you mind pointing out examples?

QUOTE
Ulquiorra has changed since his first encounter where he thought everyone was trash. After only a few words with Orihime, he called her a strong woman. I think this battle has gone beyond just fighting because Aizen says so. Aizen told him to protect Las Noches, and he has done more damage to it than anything else.

Really? Hmm... I can't see it. Would you mind explaining how he's changed? From his words against Ichigo, it seems to me he's still bigoted against humans. He constantly reminded Ichigo how he was just human, how a human can't do this, can't beat that, etc., etc. After calling Orihime a strong woman, he then proceeded to try to completely break her, torturing her mentally and emotionally using her weaknesses and her friends. Damage to Las Noches fighting Ichigo is still protecting Las Noches because he's defending it from an enemy. So, essentially, he's still following Aizen's orders.

QUOTE
He could have killed Ichigo in the beginning, but he toyed with him for a long time, demanding to know why it was he kept fighting. Ulquiorra is curious about them, but he hides it in his comments that no human can equal a hollow.

Toying with, demanding answers... these are exactly what he's been doing to Orihime ever since she entered his charge. From what I've seen, this is how Ulquiorra operates. He acts exactly like a bigot who knows nothing about the people he's bigoted against. He is curious but I don't think he's hiding them in his comments because his discussions with Orihime and Ichigo are full of questions already. He's openly showing his curiosity to the point of being mean regarding Orihime and her friends, constantly asking her how she thinks, being frustrated because he can't understand Ichigo's way of thinking, his consistent drive to fight even in a losing battle.

QUOTE
But Ichigo has somehow bridged the gap between them and came out stronger. Ulquiorra has no choice but to admit defeat. He gives up and even tells Ichigo to go ahead and kill him. He is an arrancar, what else would he expect but death, but he even agrees that Ichigo's actions are so hollow-like, showing no mercy.

I think it's strange that in one moment Ulquiorra seems to want to die, and in the next he uses his power to regenerate himself. It feels like to me it's not for himself, hopefully it will be cleared up.

Given that Ulquiorra thinks humans are trash and his tendency for vanity, I'm thinking his acceptance of Ichigo's hollow-like mercilessness is more for his benefit than Ichigo (apart from the textual confirmation that Ichigo's hollow has overtaken him). Ulquiorra's pretty proud. He was all, "I am the only Espada with this second transformation," and yet he was still beaten by a human. Human-turned-Hollow, but still someone who identifies as a human which is practically the same. His dialogue that Ichigo kill him sounds like a demand and considering how it echoed GJ's, I'm thinking that for his benefit than Ichigo's, too.

Demanding he be killed then changing his mind isn't really all that uncommon, though. Every one has self-preservation instincts. He saw a chance and decided to take a hit. Now, we'll see if having on less horn will affect Ichigo or not.



#219728 *The* Bleach Discussion Thread

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 04 April 2009 - 01:54 PM in Otaku Square

QUOTE (Miss Soupy @ Apr 4 2009, 05:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To go on and kill him after the fact is NOT like Ichigo at all, and Ishida knows that the real Ichigo would have had restraint.

Actually, after reading more specific translations, Ishida wasn't trying to stop Ichigo from killing Ulquiorra at all. Ishida thought Ulquiorra was already dead (he used the word corpse) and thought Ichigo using a sword against a dead enemy was out of line.

Not killing enemies, having mercy towards enemies, being friends with enemies are common shounen tropes, but if there's one thing the whole HM-arc has been doing to Ichigo, it's to show him that his method of being too kind-hearted in battle is a drawback, especially when most of his enemies won't hesitate a millisecond to completely obliterate him.

With Ulquiorra's extreme powers of regeneration, the only method to be free of him is to kill him. Even Ishida understood this. Unfortunately, he was not aware of Ulquiorra's regeneration capabilities and became an unwilling target of the uncontrolled Ichigo.

QUOTE
I think what Kubo has set up here is 3 of his characters needing redemption: Ulquiorra, Ichigo, and Orihime.

I'm interested to know what you think Orihime needs to be redeemed for. Ulquiorra is obvious—what hasn't he done that doesn't need redemption, and Ichigo with his rampage is a given. Orihime's sin is too vague for me. Pushing Ichigo to turn Hollow?

QUOTE
I'd really like to know the reason Ulquiorra decided to intervene, if either he saw an opening and took it, or he was paying Ishida back, or perhaps reacting to Orihime's pleading, I'm not sure.

I'm leaning on the former. He considers humans trash, I don't think he was paying Ishida back for anything, and he's shown more emotion in regards to Ichigo than his entire time with Orihime. He's just been beaten by trash, his defeat spells his inability to follow Aizen's command (and considering his loyalty, that's probably something), and there is a prime opening presented to him when his opponent turned his back and focused on someone else. It fits his character more, I think.



#219635 Naruto 442

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 03 April 2009 - 02:14 PM in Latest Releases

I'm not gonna touch your comments on Hinata because we see her too differently to come to a discussion but being insecure doesn't really equate to being useless. Hinata's problem, besides the timidity ingrained within her by the societal expectations her rank and status suffocated her with, was her tendency to give up, which she's been striving to change from the moment we see her. Sakura, ever since, has been as determined and stubborn as Naruto. Therein lies the difference.

QUOTE (Sakura Blossoms @ Apr 3 2009, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then I think that I'm giving Kishimoto way more credit where Sakura's character is concerned then, because I want to believe that he has given her a strong core of belief in herself, and won't make her feel like a completely insecure, useless person to Naruto.

Again, let me just say: insecure != useless. It doesn't really go hand in hand with not having a core of belief in themselves either. I mean, Naruto? Naruto's a pretty insecure person himself. I doubt you can say he has a lack of belief in himself, don't you?

Being insecure means a person lacks confidence in certain areas of themselves. For Sakura, it used to be different things (her forehead, being inferior to Ino, not being able to help Sasuke pre-timeskip). Right now, it's that her capacity to help Naruto is limited. Inner Sakura should have been enough to let us know that Sakura has confidence in other areas that she knows she excels at. Her control, her intelligence. She works hard for these things and she's proud of what she accomplishes. Unlike Hinata who used to give up a lot, Sakura is exactly like Naruto in that she works harder on what she knows she's bad at. So I don't really see why her current sense of low self-worth is a bad thing when it's often been the prelude to great things from her.



#219629 *The* Bleach Discussion Thread

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 03 April 2009 - 01:30 PM in Otaku Square

Regarding Ishida and his impromptu meddling: did he hear Ulquiorra when he said his weak point was the brain and internal organs? (as an aside, what kind of mid-boss tells the protagonist the as-of-then completely unknown weak point? Really? Is that logical?) Because considering Ulquiorra's damage, he might have thought the battle was finished and that what Ichigo was doing was overkill.

...okay, it was still a pretty stupid move. But, uh... Maybe it's Ishida's sense of chivalry coming out of the woodwork? (although that usually only comes out with female enemies. Maybe Ishida knows something we don't?)

My real question is: how did Ulquiorra raise himself to the level of Ichigo's horns when he's regenerating two legs and an arm... and one of his wings is broken? /useless-question



#219628 Naruto 442

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 03 April 2009 - 01:17 PM in Latest Releases

QUOTE (Sakura Blossoms @ Apr 3 2009, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And so the one time that Hinata pulls a kamikaze move out of thin air, while randomly yelling her love at the top of her lungs, is reason enough for Sakura to suddenly start thinking "that Hinata does so much for Naruto, whereas because I haven't pulled a suicidal stunt while proclaiming my undying love, I'm suddenly not worthy enough for Naruto?" huh.gif

Because that's the general idea that I seem to be getting here from these posts.

That Hinata suicidal/screaming love proclomations = worthy of Naruto suddenly

While Sakura who has stood by Naruto's side, even though she hasn't confessed her love for him yet = not worthy

Uhm... Huh? I tried rereading the posts but I don't get that feel at all.

While I can't speak for other people, I never stated that Sakura thinks Hinata's stunt made her suddenly worthy of Naruto while Sakura suddenly becomes unworthy. There really isn't any talk of worthiness or lack thereof at all. Naruto isn't a prize. He's free to be in love with whoever he feels for and being worthy or not has nothing to do with it. If Sakura actually start thinking like that, this OTP will suddenly disappear from my list of pairings because that's just a douchy thing to do.

What I was trying to say though was that Sakura already has deep-rooted insecurities regarding her capabilities to be helpful to Naruto. And Hinata succeeding in helping Naruto while Sakura is already feeling this way compounded her sense of worthlessness. It doesn't have to be Hinata because it's not about Hinata. It's about Naruto and how other people succeed in helping him while she's there thinking she can't. It's about Sakura being too hard on herself, maginalizing the things she's done and amplifying the things she couldn't do.

It's about Sakura as a character, as well as her relationship with Naruto. Romance wasn't the focus at all.

QUOTE
I understand that Sakura herself may think that she hasn't done enough, but that she isn't so insecure as to think that she hasn't done anything at all for him, in all the years that they've known each other and fought for each other.

I don't know. Sakura has always been a very, very insecure person to me. Ino gave her confidence, but just like Sasuke was to Naruto, Ino was also a source of inferiority for Sakura. If Inner Sakura is anything to go by, Sakura has had to surpress a part of her because she thought she could fit in better with the persona she was outwardly portraying, meaning she had thought before that the person she was does not fit into whatever mold she thinks is the norm. It was so convincing even Ino bought it and was surprised to see a tough, determined, fiery personality under all that whimpering facade Sakura used to portray. Obviously, she's change. She's more confident, more secure in her sense of self. But given her doubts and deprecating view regarding being helpful to Naruto, I'm inclined to think she's not all that over being the insecure little girl she was. Less insecure than before, but not completely free of it.

Sakura line was, "I can only do the littlest things for Naruto." It's not that she thinks she hasn't done anything for him at all. It's just that her sense of self-worth is on the low side of the scale and to people like that, anything they do is inconsequential. Whereas to Naruto, her mere presence is already a comfort, Sakura is honing in on the fact that Naruto is a jinchuuriki and she cannot change that. That he allowed himself to be consumed so thoroughly to be powerful enough to bring Sasuke back and she was no help at all. That the Akatsuki is after him and she's not powerful enough to fight against them. The things she does that she consider "little" are actually a big help to Naruto but she doesn't see it that way. Which is why she marginalizes them and focus on what she couldn't/failed to do.



#219620 Naruto 442

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 03 April 2009 - 12:01 PM in Latest Releases

QUOTE (Sakura Blossoms @ Apr 3 2009, 07:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't believe that she's thinking that at all, as she knows that she's done a lot for Naruto. She may think to herself that she has never run out and screamed "I LOVE YOU" randomly at him, [b]but she has no reason to think that she hasn't always tried to help him out whenever she can.

Sakura, herself, has outright stated what she thinks about this: "I can only do the littlest things for Naruto." She obviously gives it her all, and we readers as well as Naruto see how hard she tries, but to Sakura, her efforts are useless because she saw how Naruto gives more, how he suffers for it, and she can't alleviate that.

This is Sakura's own interpretation of her actions. We readers do not see it as such. Naruto obviously do not see it as such. It is because of her he stopped relying on the dangerous Kyuubi, after all. Unfortunately, Sakura cannot see through Naruto's eyes and so does not realize how important her presence and prowess are to him.



#219611 Naruto 442

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 03 April 2009 - 09:33 AM in Latest Releases

^ Oh, I definitely agree with the Sasuke-vs-Itachi fight. I guess it's because I followed this one from start to finish? With the previous Naruto fights, I waited until the fight is over/climactic enough before reading since that's what I do with most shounen fights (previous shounen serials have taught me patience, HAHA). But I guess I was spoiled with the pre-timeskip fights were the longest battles were peppered with flashback and insights to the people fighting. We got the parental revelation and some Kyuubi specifics for Naruto, but Nagato's history was sparse, IMO. We got some possible reasons for his pain-obsession but not anything specific, nothing about why the kid Jiraiya taught became this extremist.


QUOTE (Jenskott)
Personally I think your interpretation also fits a romantic scenary. Firstly, because I think she suspects, even if she hasn't heard it, and it's getting her upset. Secondly, because she can wonder why she never can make anything useful whereas that girl, who isn't his closer friend or his teammate, has almost got killed trying saving him. The thought must be eating her.

It could fit in a romantic setting, I don't doubt that. I just don't think Sakura is focusing on that right now because part of her village was destroyed, her Shishou's at the last of her chakra reserves, and Kyuubi has overtaken Naruto again. Sakura saw first-hand what it does to Naruto, the suffering it gives him, the pain that triggers it. And she's waaaay away to be of any help.

That's a lot to take in and I think she's just too worried about Naruto right now to consider any jealousy that some other girl might be romantically interested in a guy she might be feeling romantically inclined to.

Regarding Hinata's feelings, I think Sakura more than suspects it. I'm pretty sure she knows about it. Considering that her internalization came right after Neji's, "Why did she do it?" I'm thinking Sakura put two and two together and figured out Hinata did what she did out of love for Naruto.

I still think it's more her insecurities showing than jealousy, though. Or that she's jealous because Hinata effortlessly did what she's been striving to do for a while now. I think she's insecure because she thinks her capacity to help Naruto is mediocre but this is her personal opinion of herself. Considering Naruto values her presence and prowess both in attack power and healing capability, it is obviously an opinion Naruto does not share. It just so happens that she doesn't see what he sees and thinks herself lacking.



#219603 Naruto 442

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 03 April 2009 - 07:57 AM in Latest Releases

I just read it and... the fight dragged on for so long, truth be told. I kinda want the prerequisite villain flashback already so we could at least understand what changed Nagato from the child Jiraiya took care of to this pain-obsessed extremist.

Also, I was wondering about that translation. From the spoilers and the leaked pics, Hinata doing something for Naruto and Sakura commenting on it makes perfect sense when you consider Sakura's own insecurities about Naruto and the things she can do. "I can only do the littlest things for Naruto," she said way back when. She's the teammate, the one with him the most, the one who shares his pain and the one who's seen his suffering from her front-row seat. And Hinata was the one who succeeded in doing something for him in a fight against someone who could have very well killed him. If that's not prime material for uprooting insecurities, I don't know what is.

It's possible she could be jealous had she heard the confession. But right now, there's a war and Naruto's in danger and she couldn't do anything. It makes more sense to think it's not romance she's thinking of.



#207067 Live-Action Cowboy Bebop Film

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 18 December 2008 - 11:57 AM in Arts & Entertainment District

Why is the girl in the movie in the attached image? Are they making a live of the movie instead of the series? If so, all we need to do is think of a Cowboy Bebop movie character that didn't show all that much emotion! That'll be the character Keannu Reeves plays!

I doubt all anime are going live action. I bet it's just the movie industry losing creativity and gathering material from popular already-animated stories from the East. See also: the remake of Asian horror/other genre movies.



#207066 *The* Bleach Discussion Thread

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 18 December 2008 - 11:49 AM in Otaku Square

QUOTE (Paradox Jast @ Dec 18 2008, 07:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm already wondering how they're going to manage drawing Halibel in the anime. They've already changed her costume to be more 'prudish'.


I'm also betting on Nel and Ulq being Vasto Lordes.

LOL! Well, I guess instead of a zipper up, the animators can move the number to her upper breast and make the zipper for top-to-bottom. I wonder what's up with women being 3rd. Guess Nnoitora's attitude against Halibel might be residual hatred not only on her gender but also on her position.

I don't know about Nel and Ulquiorra being Vasto Lordes. We've seen them both fight. There should have been some hint at least, if they were, I think.



#207061 *The* Bleach Discussion Thread

Posted by kage'e shoujo on 18 December 2008 - 11:17 AM in Otaku Square

QUOTE (Paradox Jast @ Dec 18 2008, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm actually kinda glad Stark is number 1. He strikes me as a number 1.

Same here. I've always thought he was Primera on account of his seeming non-interest in the things currently going on. I did think Halibel was second, though, if only because Barragan (sp?) was too much like Nnoitora in attitude ("Strong am I, See how strong I am") and that always spoke of "not being powerful enough" for me.

Randomly: Halibel is so hot. I wish she shows more power to the point where Hitsu will need help, though. If Arrancar are Hollows that have overcome the power limit that Hollows and Shinigami have, I wish the power difference would actually show. Then the Vaizards can have the spotlight, haha!