How about a small list? 

 

I'm challenging your statement because I do not believe there are "Way too many to name", nor were there "Retcons left and right". You're free not to indulge, but if you are going to claim a position, better to make an example. 

 

Kaguya suffered from lack of foreshadowing, yes, though I will disagree that she's the worst, though this is a position we can respectfully have differing views on with no problem. 

 

And no character was "destroyed". No character became OOC at the end, objectively so. They're still the same characters. 

 I guess a better way to put it would be character regression. Destruction of growth. Sakura was in character for 12 yr old Sakura. Also i said ONE of the worst not the worst, but as you said we can agree to disagree on that. Sasuke's history was retconned. The LAST was a giant retcon and a band-aid on a gaping wound. I'm done with this topic though. I'm not gonna go through every little mistake, like i said i'm done with canon Naruto, it was a great start changed into one heaping pile of ass.

Thanks for the nice reply's everyone. Well i have never been very active in the discussions themselves I definitely pop in threads from time to time. It is nice to see that there are still many people who care about this place as i do.

 

On another note. Tricksie, well i know you haven't written in awhile. Your writing is some of the most enjoyable i have read.

 

What many, many holes? 

Way to many to name. Retcons left and right. Changing of timelines to suit his needs. NTM one of the worst final enemies ever. Like i said in another thread. I know not to get in a debate with you. I don't mean to come off as harsh, I just don't see us being able to have a proper discussion on it. I accept that our opinions differ and leave it at that. I got over the ending a long time ago. I have accepted it for what it is. The manga was on on a downward spiral to me long before that, but it was special to me and i just couldn't simply let it go. I will always believe NS would of been the best choice. Kishimoto destroyed 2 once great characters ( along with so many other mistakes) , but that does not matter to me anymore. I have moved on from the canon Naruto universe a long long time ago. 

 

Isn't that a problematic stance? We can't make a case on what his intent was, and we can't use the interviews to support or case because we are saying "Authors lie from time to time", yet his words are more or less consistent, and don't really support that anyway. 

You say he is consistent, but i say the many many holes in his story say otherwise. our opinions differ and ALWAYS will differ.

Hey everyone. Long long time member and i mean LONG ( just check the join date). I am pretty much a permanent lurker who comes out every once an a blue moon to throw in his 2 cents, but i have never really made any kind of introduction. I have been a long time NS supporter all the way since good ol chapter 3. i supported the couple religiously for years. Never really cared for ships before ( I mean a guy my age really shouldn't be lol) but something about NS was different. There growth as characters and the way they fit with each other just made me want to cheer them on. I was so sure that they would be together in the end. Safe to say i was pretty crushed by the ending and have not really followed anything to do with the canon naruto since (still love me some good fanfics though). I will always believe in my heart of hearts regardless of any interviews or otherwise that NS was Kishi's original intent, even if it never was really important to him. I didn't do this to mope about the old days though. I just wanted to finally make a little introduction after all these years. I know there is not to many people left from around my time. I have seen many people come and go in all my years of lurking and well i have never been a really "active" member. I have fond memories of this place and it is the people here that helped nurture the love i have for our favorite paring.

To all those who are still here. Never doubt that H&E was and always will be the best naruto fan sanctuary around! (Even if the story let us down in the end) Now time to disappear for another 10+ yrs of lurking!

 
Even if we are assuming the author is lying, if the source material lines up with his words, you are going to be in a far better position to make a strong case. 

That is your opinion (that the source material is lining up with what he is saying) Id debate you on this, but after looking through alot of your posts, I've come to see that would be fruitless with you. so ill just leave it here.

I'm just going to address this part, as I will always say, people are welcome to feel how they feel. 
 
 
I've made Pro-NS points, but the subject rarely seems to circle this to really discuss that. It instead often comes up as half-praise, half-insult at something, the ending, the pairing, and the point they say is done bad is even refutable, so I naturally refute it. I've also made my criticisms of what was done. I.E., I do not believe the Team 7 bonds were well executed, and this includes SS, so saying they are "wonderfully done" really misses my point. I do though, think that NH was written well, though I stress written, and not, I ship. This is why I defend it, because I see it's foundation and execution, and can point out why, where others don't see it, for whatever reason that may be. There are flaws I can certainly name, mainly one that connects to the same criticism of  the many of Naruto's bonds with other characters, in that they are underutilized, while we have the overuse of Sasuke's bond with Naruto.
 
I like NS as a pair, I think they are really warm. I don't agree with all of the fanon perspectives on it, and we'll never know exactly on how they act as an actual couple, but I imagine the dynamic would be fun and humorous and warm and entertaining, and would have been a fine pick for the end if Kishimoto chose to do so. I don't though, support that it was Kishimoto's original pick but he betrayed it, I think that is really close to almost saying: "I was entitled to this happening because that's how it was supposed to be", and I don't support it is bad writing because he chose not to do so. I also do not think NS, like the other Team 7 bonds, had the greatest start in execution, but unlike the other Team 7 bonds, made leaps and bounds in improvement, particularly helped by them spending more time together. 
 
. 

Coming out of permanent lurkery to add my 2 cents. I respectfully disagree. I do believe that NS was his original intent, but at the same time i also think he never cared about the pair. Just as he never cared about NH or SS either. Only one bond mattered to him. Naruto and sasuke. No opinion here is any more right or wrong than the other. None of us are kishi, so none of us can say what his true intent was. Even if he himself says what his true intent was, cause authors lie from time to time.

 

 
You could though, as Boruto could end up alone or with someone else, we're not that far into the manga yet. You could say Boruto and Sarada might happen, but I don't think there's enough to foreshadow it will happen
 
 
. No, NH is not the best ship on the whole planet, unless you think it is. Ship who you want to ship, I just wish to correct mis-stated facts. 
 
I did not say, Evil100 is not qualified, by the way. He perfectly is. 
 
I pity what he is going through, but I have no control over his stories, and it is completely silly to do that, since I have no presence on fanfiction.net. 
 
 
 
 
 
Here's the difference: The manga is over, and the author said it was. Context restores meaning to that which you tried to show there was none. 

  you do realize people can lie right?? It is very simple for an author to say "oh i planned that from the very beginning"