The Might as well end pairing less to satisfy all readers... Thought leaving them with dirty Doujins and Fanfiction about "What could have happened."

Well, as a timid character with a passive personality and an unimportant role, she's not a character that leaves an impact on the series in general. She's too weak a character.

there isn't anything in that conversation that specifically screams that it was important that Hinata was with him at that very moment. I could honestly see Sakura, replacing her there. I say this only, because Hinata doesn't leave a very strong impact on the Naruto series.

My point is that its not the same and I don't think you can make that analogy. I agree with the broader point that when considering the rightness of an action, the conext in which it occured is important. But the simple fact that an action has a context similar to the of Sasuke's does not mean its automatically justified. His past may have been bad, but that doesn't mean he doesn't or shouldn't know any better. In Sasuke's case I don't believe he past excuses his current behavior.

In the beginning of the series, Kishimoto emphasizes those who abandon their friends are worse than trash and that ninja who desert their village are normally hunted down and killed. Sasuke has done both of those. In this sense what Sasuke did was vile. The fact that he has suffered certainly explains WHY he did what he did, but I disagree that it excuses it because saying that makes it sound if what he did was okay and I don't think it does. It would have been wrong with or without the tragic past. The fact that his family was murder by Itachi doesn't make adandoning his friends and home a right. To me, the action was still inappropriate. Perhpas it makes Naruto more willing to forgive the bad act, but it doesn't change the fact that it was still the wrong this to do. Part of it is, it's not as if hasn't received plenty of guidance on the subject. He has obviously forgotten or ignored Kakashi most basic lesson.

Second, I suppose it's tad difficult for me to feel sorry for him when he complains about the loss of family while he simultaneously pushes himself away from a family just obtained.

Second, in the case of Sasuke, it is sometimes used to excuse his current behavior. It explains it, but as Naruto shows does not excuse it. don't think you are doing this IchaIcha, but I've seen it in previous deabtes. One of the difference between his Naruto and Sasuke is that Naruto is rising above that suffering, doing the right thing and protecting others even when he could rely on his past as an excuse not to.

Because those characters are so "deep". Naruto has suffered the same as Sasuke. The difference? Naruto choose to look ahead and try to make a future for himself, Sasuke on the other hand remained stuck in his past wich led ultimately to betray his friends seeking Orochimaru for power so he can kill his brother.

Pfft. I went there and they have some of the most ridiculous sayings.

"Sasuke said Sakura's name first because he is in love with her" - Referring to the 300s chapter where they are reunited with Sasuke for the first time in 2 1/2 years.

Um, excuse me but Naruto wasn't even in sight at the time. Sasuke didn't even know he was there. Stupid SasuSaku members need to get thier facts straight. They are just making up stupid excuses.

Sasuke doesn't want Naruto to stop him, he just wants Naruto to leave him alone so he can do his power trip thing in peace. That's why he keeps saying, leave me alone. He hasn't killed Naruto because it hasn't been nessesary. It was clear Naruto was outclassed, so killing him would have been a waste of time.

I think the real reason why I'm oppose to this whole Sasuke's given in to his dark ambition and blah, blah, blah. Because that reasoning obsolves him from whatever he's currently doing. Saying, "Its ok, he betrayed his friends and village. He's having a tough time now..." And that's just unforgivable. Like saying you can do whatever you want, because you have an angsty past. I mean that's how life goes sometimes, deal with it.

Naruto had a rough childhood too, on par with Sasuke. But I think his childhood and the many trials he had to go through has made him a better person for it. If anything Sasuke's a victem of having poor character and not a strong enough will. But that doesn't mean, what he's doing right now is ok. And it never should be.

Also almost all (except Iruka) his teachers are perverts so that doesn't helps the case. Who knows if he gets with Sakura he'll be straighten up besides I think she's the jealous type. With her jealous it be a presnt site to see and Naruto may find this way the hospital and possibilty a broken relationship.

moreso then having someone say that she only shows signs of pity towards him.

Unfortunetly, it seems like a lot of debators for NaruSaku have a problem with giving an alternative pairing a chance. I'm not saying this is everyone-- and I'm not saying that they are flaming or anything. But it seems to me that intelligent debate is almost impossible-- instead of disecting a SasuSaku or NaruHina or any other pairings post, you should be looking at reasons why it is possible-- and then kindly pointing out where there are inefficencies in their post while arguing your own pairings support, not throwing it in their faces with 'You must not have read Part II', 'Naruto deserves Sakura', 'It's never going to happen', 'NaruSaku MUST happen in order for the series Naruto to be the series Naruto', 'SasuSaku is dead', 'Sakura MUST see her feelings for him!', 'Yamato said something about it, and so did Sai'... etc, etc.

I understand many of your points-- and the moments you suggest are evidence are very good possibilities. Unfortuntely, people don't seem to understand that everything part 2 is circumstanial-- Yamato and Sai may say things, but we never see exactly what they are saying-- Yamato is cut off, and Sai's can be interpreted many ways. On top of this, neither of them has been with Team 7 since the beginning-- they have no idea of the history of the team (other than the general 'Sasuke left' part), or their past relationships and development. It's hard to put much faith in people who are stating opinions when they haven't been with the team for more than a few days-- and haven't seen Sasuke before he left for Orochimaru.

Also-- Naruto deserving Sakura just gets on my nerves. I've seen the argument in all pairing arguments, but the point is simpley this-- No one DESERVES Sakura. She is not a prize to be won or obtained. She's not a 'treat' for someone doing a good job or being a good person. Saying that simply pushes her down to being an object instead of a human being. Also, when it comes to love, it doesn't matter if someone 'deserves' someone better or vice versa. The heart decides things-- whether they make sense or not.

Considering we have heard nothing of Sakura's feelings in Part II for either Naruto or Sasuke, everything on either side pertaining to Part II is speculation. Sakura has left much to be wondered for both boys-- her unfinished statement to Naruto ( "Naruto, it's you I..."), and her increased defense of Sasuke ( She punches Sai and says "If I hear you talk bad about Sasuke-kun again, I won't go easy on you." and after discovering Sai's true mission, she shoves him up against the wall and says "What are you really after? How many more times are you going to stab us in the back?!") leaves both sides with lots of questions and speculation.

It is pretty close minded to say SasuSaku is dead-- irregardless of the reasons. No coupling is 'dead' until one of the characters themself is dead. Besides that, I see the argument of 'Sasuke tried to kill Sakura!'. No, he didn't. He tried to kill Naruto. Sai got in the way, and he injured them. Sakura CHARGED at him, and he turned. We see three panels of his eyes before we see him do anything-- which I think shows he's thinking of what to do, and hadn't expect her to come at him. He uses the sword he already has out-- as defense-- but ends up stabbing Yamato who jumps in the way. Instead of going after Sakura then, he goes into Naruto's mind and talks to Kyuubi. The final attack he was going to do, we do not know who he was going to attack, or if he was planning to attack the group-- all we know is that he made no special effort to attack Sakura other than when SHE charged at him and he went on the defensive. That is not him attempting to kill her.

I've seen the argument 'Naruto would not the series Naruto if he doesn't end up with the girl in the end'... which, to be honest, makes not real sense to me. Naruto is not a shoujo manga-- it's a shonen manga, meaning it does not revolve around romantic relationships-- and can easily end without one as well. The story of Naruto follows Naruto's character-- his growth and recognition by the village of Konoha, and his path to becoming Hokage-- not his trials of love. If the girl did end up with another character, we would not suddenly have a manga that makes no sense-- because the manga does not revolve around her. It revolves around Naruto trying to gain recognition and become Hokage. He doesn't need to win the girl to become Hokage, now does he? He doesn't need to have a girl fall in love with him to gain her recognition. This arugment is one of the few that makes no sense. It's like saying we'll have to totally change the name of the series and start focusing on another character if Naruto doesn't get the girl. Why would you do that?

On a final note, the other part that is very irritating is when a fact is 'ignored' or overlooked as 'That was Part 1' or 'Stop saying that, we're sick of hearing it'. Both fandoms use information from Part 1 and scenes from Part 1-- if you want to use that information for your fandom, do NOT disallow it from other fandoms because it threatens your pairing or posts. Do not ignore a fact someone else states-- you can conceded to having no argument if that is why you don't post a response to it, but do not just over look it-- it makes you seem closeminded. Both fandoms do this, and it is very irritating.

All in all, it is possible to debate intelligently with other fandoms, even one that is a huge threat to your own, if you simply OPEN YOUR MIND and look at what other people have to say instead of assuming one pairing won't work because you hate a character, or you feel yours is better. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, and there is no reason to bad mouth each other. It just makes you seem unintelligent and ignorant, and will just lower others views of you.

Lol. rofl I read that link to a NS/SS debate on the first page. I just had to laugh ridiculously. Somebody said that "NaruSaku people say that 'Naruto deserves Sakura more than Sasuke'. That's a really weak argument."

I really do feel I'm yelling at a brick wall sometimes. Most people in there that I've seen that support SasuSaku have yet to read part II yet. I've even seen someone ask who the Akatsuki are.

Then romance should be easy to add following a very simple formula that's been used countless times (and is the method of a lot of fanfics by amateur authors, from what I hear). But Kishi said it's not easy for him. He also said he hasn't really tackled romance yet, despite "seemingly" using this "obvious" cliche. He may be up to something different, or he may end up never really developing romance.



Yes, he has spent time developing their relationship, but it's not necessarily a romantic one. He however took an entire chapter for Sakura to catch Sasuke trying to leave Konoha, as well as spout a confession of her love.

The plot devices mentioned in the quote are being used by Kishi, just not for romance so much because this series isn't focused on romance. Considering he says romance is difficult for him to add, I'm not expecting some messy triangle with twists and turns, but just him finding the right times to add bits and pieces along the way like he has been, only more of them, and actually getting somwhere.



I've seen these series (well, not Dragon Ball, but I've seen a number more that use this common device), and except for on the surface similarities with the "violent comedic relationship", they handle relationships between the characters quite differently. It's not as close a parallel as many people think. Spork Ninja did a nice post on this at NF - I should see if I can find it.

And found it I did:

IchaIcha, seriously. Did you join a couple of weeks or something ? I mean was on vacaction, and you pop up... Oh, whatever. Eh, I guess I could go see if there's anything interesting now.

Icha Icha's here? I must've missed something.

Are you known as IchaIcha Paradise on SS vs. NS?

It's not exactly the brightest idea to cheer on NaruSaku on a mostly SasuSaku board. SasuSakuers get brutal. VERY brutal. (I would know; I used to be a SasuSaku purist ) However, if I ever get around to it, I'll drop by and pitch in a few words for the home team. :thumbs:

NARUSAKU TIL THE END OF TIME! x

well if sakura didnt like naruto she would say no or saying I'M SORRY NARUTO.
BUT she didnt say that she just say, MAYBE WE CAN TRAIN together.

^ Good idea, actually. I tried to join so I could make some points, but there are so many SasuSaku fans that even if you make good points, it'll be disregarded in two minutes, and they'll just return to agreeing with each other.

Yea I noticed that most NaruSaku arguments just got ignored anyway, that's part of why I didn't want to join. Also they have this topic on chapter 311 that I think is hilarious, cause they keep debating about wether or not the scene were Sai was talking to Naruto and Sakura was NaruSaku or just friendship. Its funny because the important part to pairings in that chapter wasn't Sai talking to them, but when he read the book saying if you use the -kun or -san suffixes with people you won't become any closer to them, which kinda hurts both SasuSaku and LeeSaku.

I don't think so. They're on the same team so they have enough opportunity for interaction and they've both made attempts to be friendly - Sakura by talking with him about art and returning his book, Sai by giving Sakura her pet name.